I've proven it to produce negative results.
>
> Another unsupported assertion. I think what you really mean is
you
> are not capable of the effort it takes to make advantage VP work.
I
> never said it was easy.
I always wonder why some people like to say "it isn't easy".
Learning
perfect play isn't difficult at all--when you're interested in
doing
it and you are motivated. It's simply a theory that doesn't work,
and
for the very few who 'claim' to be ahead (and of course we'll NEVER
see any kind of support from them other than "the math works")
they've had better luck than the rest, and appropriated their time
well enough that they didn't stay on for hour after hour playing to
give it all back on the very intermittent days that they won
something. That's all it is. There's no magic, no special skills,
and
no mathematical feats of any kind.
You admit (1) the math is valid and (2) learning Perfect play isn't
difficult, and then you state the "theory doesn't work". Amazing!
The first two items ARE the theory in practice. QED.
> Thank you for the compliment, Einstein? Really? I'm overwhelmed
by
> your kindness.
> As for a proof, let me give you one simple enough that even you
might understand. All one needs to do is program the rather simple
game of VP into one of todays' high speed computers and analyze all
possible outcomes. I have done this and, if you would like, I will
show you the code. Once you program a game, next you insert the pay
table for a particular version of the game. Run the program and,
for
certain paybacks, you get results greater than 100%.
I hate to cliche you, but you didn't offer any proof of
your 'winning'. All you're doing is preaching a math class. Where's
YOUR proof--you always ask for mine! Prove to me that you're more
than a boring math geek when it comes to video poker.
"boring math geek"? Looks like you're back in the 3rd grade again.
Name calling is a clear sign you have lost the ability to debate
intelligently.
Produce
absolute proof that you've won.
Let's see, you stated in the last note that it was impossible to
prove or disprove whether someone made a profit (I even agreed with
you) and now your asking for the exact proof you said was impossible.
Get a grip.
I will repeat what I stated before. I have no motive to lie. I will
not make a dime if anyone believes me or not.
Show us how a human can attain the
same results as a computer, how we never tire, are never
distracted,
and never make mistakes.
I never said any of this was necessary. Are you going off the deep
end?
> Given your track record so far I wouldn't disregard
the "arbitrary
> withdrawls and deposits" statement.
You're getting off track and wasting time.
>
> However, it is possible you've had success. You admit below you
> utilize expert play strategy. This is the basis for advantage
play.
> So, it's looks to me like you're really just another example of a
> successful advantage player.
I utilize expert play to the point that it makes sense to. But if I
want to win consistently I can't do that. Incorporate a structured
progression (and please don't tell me it's Martingale again)
No, you tell me, what's the difference between your system and
Martingale?
with the
right bankroll, and that's a far more effective way to approach the
computerized game than strictly trying to out-perform the video
poker
computers -- and casinos -- at their own game.
This is pure and simple garbage. Produce any mathematical model,
statistical model or objective empirical evidence that what you are
saying is true? Of course, you can't since it's not based on a sound
mathematical foundation.
This is the RS scam ... That somehow you can structure your betting
to change mathematical probabilities. It just doesn't work that way
Rob and never will. Over time anyone's results will approach the
level of skill they use. If they play at a 99% skill level then they
will lose 1% of their money.
If you say anything else works (like your progression system) that
gives people false hope, and that makes you a fraud.
>
> Everything I have produced related to VP I've given away freely.
> Since I don't profit in any way supporting advantage VP, I have
no
> motive to lie. To be in the same position as me you must say
you've
> never made any money selling VP related material either. Well?
I sell nothing but a book, and I do not keep the Royalties any
longer
after the first $25k. And I gave every penny of that to either my
son, my daughter, or to cancer research. My next book will be out
soon, and I've signed up to not accept any of the royalties--that
they go straight to my web master and children. I've made money but
I
don't keep it. When you're controlled by publishers, there are
contracts. I didn't know enough about it the first time around. I
simply want to get my word out to the public, and that's all.
So, you don't make any money writing for GT?
You'll
never see me blab like the Queen,
Blabbing is about all you've done in this thread.
have a web site solely for the
purpose of selling vp baloney like Dancer, or have such a shameful
site as Stanford Wong that advertises his junk everywhere you
navigate, charges people to join just to 'chat', and has sold out
to
on-line casinos just to make a buck. Not to mention what Skip
Hughes
does to players.
> Wow, you're bringing up addition again. Sure looks like you have
a
> complex here. Once again it appears you're trying to mask your
own
> addiction.
You keep saying that, but I'm the one who was bold enough to bring
it
up. I know the truth about addiction, because when I played optimal-
play for 6 years I was severely addicted to the game, promotions,
and
my slot card. I know what goes on with you people. Anyone who says
they play for hours whenever they walk into a casino (and esp.
those
who live in Nevada that play nearly every day) and believe they
hold
a mythical advantage of some sort over the vp computers clearly
have
an addiction they cannot shake. Denial means nothing. That's why I
talk about it so often here and in my columns. It embarrasses
people
because they know it's true.
Nope, this is all in your mind. I suspect because you had/have an
addition it makes you feel better to think most others have the same
weakness/disease. It just ain't so. Get over it.
> The next step is the "practice" of advantage play which is
completely different from the "theory". You seem to confuse these
on
a regular basis. There are lots of theories that can't be put into
practice. This just doesn't happen to be one of them.
If even a handful of people could produce proof that, contrary to
my
results with optimal play--produces a profit, it would mean
something.
All you need to do is ask. I have talked with many people in Las
Vegas, Reno and elsewhere that make a profit. They have no motive to
lie to me as they are not selling anything. Naturally, there are
always a few who exaggerate, but they are in the minority.
but all we hear is the incessant yakking from people like
Jean S., and Bob Dancer telling his incomplete stories--both in
order
to stay in the vp business. VP theory has been put into 'practice',
but it has never been proven that anything other than another
perfect-
play computer could ever duplicate what the math models determine.
Like I said, it is not necessary to play perfectly to play with an
advantage. However, it does require a high degree of accuracy.
Harping on the "perfect-play" issue is is a waste of time. It's not
needed nor is it relevant.
>If you're willing to put in the time and
> effort then you can succeed. The effort to play FPDW is minimal,
> other games require more effort. If someone is not willing to put
in the time and effort, then they probably won't make a profit.
You keep on making assertions that I may not have had the ability
to
do what you claim to do. Now I'm not the brightest person on earth
or
even in Arizona or the Phoenix area, but I have an EE and an MBA, I
operate 3 computers in my home for undiscloseable reasons, and some
of the things I've done take a bit more understanding than your
typical video poker guru. I had the motivation to learn, and I did.
It simply doesn't work.
I'm going assume this is a truthful statement. So, here's a little of
my personal history for you. For over 20 years I gambled a couple of
times a year playing mostly slots. Naturally, I lost during this
time, but I never gambled very much (nickel/quarter) and never
considered myself much of a gambler. My wife is actually the one who
loves to gamble. When I started playing advantage VP I went the first
5 1/2 months without a RF. I also had about 1/2 the number of
secondary jackpots (equivalent of 4 deuces) in this same period of
time. During this time I played over 200K hands. I lost over $6,000
playing .25 VP. I could easily have become discouraged and given up.
Instead, I kept with it. This was almost 6 years ago. Since then I
have probably played 3-4 million hands and I am ahead. My overall
results are almost exactly what the math predicts. So, "it"
actually "does work" if you stay with it for the long term.
I don't know why you experienced poor results. It probably was just
poor luck like it was for me. If you've made money since then, it's
probably due to a simple change in luck. Since you are still using
expert play strategies then you are the beneficiary of advantage
play. Your progression system and "quit when you reach a goal
strategy" may have helped you overcome your addiction, but it's had
absolutely nothing to do with your long term results.
>
> Just to make it completely clear. It's not necessay to
play "computer perfect" to be an advantage player. All one needs to
do is maintain a relatively high degree of accuracy.
That's BS and you know it.
Nope it's simply a fact. Naturally, you say it's BS or you'd be
admitting everything you've said so far is a lie.
It's what all the gurus and geek say to me
whenever I challenge their claims. To them it's a cure-all and it's
not. No one plays long enough for that theory to overcome the
mistakes they don't even know and will not admit they make. Good
luck
has more to do with results than any other factor---short OR long
term.
Nope. Short term: luck is the most important factor, long term:
strategy is the most important factor. This is supported by the math
and your assertions cannot change it.
>I don't play computer-perfect, but I do practice regularly
> so I can maintain sufficient accuracy to make a profit. This is
> the "practice" of advantage play.
Practice is a waste of time. Don't you get enough satisfaction for
your habit in the casinos? For the rest, I refer you to my above
statement.
Spoken like a true scammer. You sound like a TV commerical for the
latest gym equipment.
"Just 3 minutes a week and you too can have perfect abs".
If you want to be successful at any endeavor then hard work is
required. I like being successful, so I continue to work at it.
> Even blackjack counters??? If so, why do casinos ban them.
Fear of BJ counters are a bunch of baloney. The only people casinos
fear are those BJ players who try to scam them electronically.
Probably every so-called counter doesn't last because they lose it
all eventually. Where are they now--except for the few who pop out
of
the walls to tell of personal exploits -- when they won, that is.
We
see your famous Anthony Curtis on the Travel Channel constantly
saying how he 'used to be' a counter. So what happened? Isn't that
kind of an easy life--a casino stud on the prowl with pockets full
of
cash, able to make withdrawals at will? And what about Wong? And my
former publisher Peter at GBC? They all claimed to win win win
counting cards, yet they all disappeared from the scene. Those who
can't stay away from gambling operate gambling businesses of sorts.
Frank Scoblete said it best when he announced that "Even the best
of
counters make or made, at most, $30k in their best years, but we
never know what happens other than that".
> Also, why have all the casinos pulled $1 FPDW off the floors?
Could
> it be they were losing too much money? How could that be if they
have the mathematical edge?
I tire of answering this question, because it's so obvious. Casino
bottom line. Machines that don't hold as much as the others are
reduced or removed whenever the bosses demand a higher net profit
from the operation. It has absolutely nothing to do with
the "'pros'
hammering them to death", as we hear so often from the self-
promoting
gurus or their misled flock. It's false confidence-building and
nothing more. And then what do all you guys do? Yup--you go out and
create more ways to claim it's an advantage play. You add in
tournament play, comps, VIP attention, car giveaways that even if
you
don't win, you use it, casino host smiles....even a sunny day just
to
justify playing a sub-100% game. that's where the addiction comes
in.
What a bunch of mularky.
Looks like I hit the truth pretty much right on the nose. I can
always tell when you start babbling.
> Since luck, in your words, has the ability to "show", then why
would this be limited only to non-expert play? Why not play
perfectly
100% of the time and let luck show itself then? Or, are you really
> claiming you deviate from expert play because of precognition?
I've never said good luck only shows to non-expert play. You folks
see it on every winning hand just like I do. But you'll play
through
it as if it never happened. To you, it's just more play credits. To
me, it's money, and a major part of my play plan.
NO. To me it's money AND entertainment. Since your "play plan" is
mathematically unsound then you are wasting a lot of time.
> I see your reading comprehension is minimal. Surveys show bias by
> simply not stating some facts, ie. "what is reported". Or, if
this
is still too complex for you, the surveys leave out stuff. They do
not show bias in the material they report. If you still don't
understand then you're beyond hope. And, as I previously wrote, the
material that was reported contradicts your stated positions.
You are so confused. You take this 'survey' far too seriously,
This really is a poor reply.
"When confronted with overwhelming evidence contrary to your position
it's usually best to change the subject". I see these are words you
choose to live by.
I don't take it "seriously", I just pointed out you were wrong and
ever since then you keep trying to change the subject. Since you
won't even admit wrong when confronted with this kind of evidence, it
makes it pretty clear you'll likely choose to ignore the facts in
other areas.
but as
with your strategy, you want to believe in it because you HAVE to
in
order to justify continuous playing when you might know better.
More babble. Don't you have anything at all clever to say. This must
be about the 10th time you've repeated yourself.
> First of all, it's not "baloney", but a more detailed
interpretation of the math you agreed earlier was correct. It's up
to
each individual to determine whether this level of interpretation
is
useful to them. It's not up to you.
Correct. And that's part of the disconnect. I communicate with
thousands of players, and you might talk to family, or other casino
friends. You're a wannabee when it comes to understanding what the
masses thinks or does--prefering that they all agree with you. But
it's just not like that, so you're bothered by it.
I'm only bothered that you choose to promote a scam. I could care
less what the "masses think".
Maybe you should worry less about me and spend a little more time
understanding the science behind VP.
> Yes there is, you're still confusing "proof" with "practice".
For someone who should be mathematically disciplined, you keep
dodging such a simple question. Can you PROVE optimal-play results--
actually played by any 'advantage player'? In-practice is a cop
out.
Give me proof.
Covered earlier. First you say a proof is impossible, then you say
give me a proof. Make up your mind.
You really have lost it. We agree expert play is mathematically
sound. You stated earlier it's not that difficult to master. It's now
simply up to the "law of large numbers". That is, the long term. This
is a sound mathematical fact. Before you disagree, read on ..
Since you stated earlier you're an engineer you should know this.
Quantum physics contains a lot probability theory. It's how scientist
are able to accurately predict much of nature when studying particles
at an atomic scale. The "law of large numbers" is how Quantum physics
manifests itself in the macro world. If you disagree with this fact,
then that is the equivalent of saying the universe does not exist.
> If you are promoting the same garbage in your newsletters that
you
> are presenting on this forum then I feel sorry for those
subscribers. Do you really believe this makes anything you say
right?
···
--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:
I believe what I say in the newsletter is and has always been right-
-
just like in my book and my column. You call it garbage because you
don't like it.
No, I call it garbage because it's mathematically unsound. You may
wish you could change the laws of nature but you can't. If you'd ever
take the time to understand the math then you'd realize what I'm
saying is pure and simple fact.
Publishers of 35 years seem to know a tad bit more
than you on the subject of video poker.
You'd call them wrong too,
but according to your own probability theories, who's kidding whom?
I didn't invent the math or the "probability theories", I'm simply
trying to explain them to you. You resist because you'd have to admit
you're a fraud and all of your character assassinations were targeted
at those who were simply providing truthful information.
If your publishers also deny mathematical facts then they are no
better than you. However, I suspect they'd be more open.
> Reading comprehension problems again? Do I have to draw you a
> picture? You should learn how analogies work.
Just trouble with your confusing statements.
I think you find them confusing because you never take the time to
understand what I'm telling you.
If you'd like some text books to help you understand I would be happy
to provide you with some references. Of course, the math behind VP is
really quite simple and anyone with an engineering degree has had
related courses in college.
Dick
