vpFREE2 Forums

SIN CITY and OLD BIDDIES

When people discuss such issues, they usually speak in generalities.
Most people DO drive, just as most people who play video poker are
overweight, they on average drink much more than others, their income
level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're not all
like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our group is
like.

> The true definition of "Good People": "Those who honesly are as
> good in mind, spirit and actions towards others when they get
behind
> the wheel and drive, as they are with everyone they deal with in
any
> other everyday business or social environment".

Rob, if this is your definition of "good people" then I think you
need to expand your thinking quite a bit. Some people don't even
drive. I guess by your definition they could never be "good people".

>
> If you guys match that, I salute you. I did not - until I
recognized
> the fault of my ways around 10 years ago.

I'm glad you're a more courteous driver now.

> Likewise, my play results
> also drastically turned around when I recognized the faulty and
> misleading ways of the gurus teachings in 1996.
>

You might as well say airplanes can't fly, the earth is flat, or

the

sun revolves around the earth. The gurus didn't create the universe
or the mathematics that describe it, and whatever you say will
_never_ change the _fact_ that it's mathematics that determines VP
results over the long term.

You may not like it that the gurus have provided this information

to

the masses, however, they are correct in their mathematical

analysis

of VP.

One more thing. I did not originally take the gurus words on faith.
So, in 1998 when I started playing VP I wrote my own computer
programs to analyze VP. Guess what? I came up with the identical
results as described by the gurus.

So, if you have a better system, let's program it into a computer

and

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:
compare the results.

Dick

When people discuss such issues, they usually speak in

generalities.

Most people DO drive,

In this assertion that most people "DO" drive you must be limiting
your view to the non-third world counties. Or, do you believe your
statement is true all over the world and most of them are not "good
people".

just as most people who play video poker are
overweight, they on average drink much more than others, their

income

level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're not all
like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our group is
like.

And what scientific study, may I ask, is this pearl of wisdom based
on? I doubt the demographics of the gambling population is all that
different from the general population, but if you have something to
backup your assertion please feel free to post it. By the way, I have
seen a study on gamblers income and education levels. The group as a
whole was ABOVE average. I don't remember where I saw this but if I
can find it I will post a link.

It looks to me like you've created a view in your mind that gamblers
are generally "bad people" to justify your behavior. It wouldn't be
nice to "scam" good people.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

No, I've BEEN all over the world many times over, and have lived in 6
foreign countries. Most people ARE good people in 3rd world
countries, because they have far more drive in getting ahead than we
do. The fact that they live like slugs means nothing to them, and
should mean nothing to us when we talk about 'good' or 'bad'.

I would state that what I do in video poker compared to what you do,
I'm in a far better position to extract the truth about who plays and
who does not than you or any of your studies. You likely have a small
group of 'buddies' you hang around with - or a few family members,
and you might surf the Internet for other opinions that match yours -
including studies by those who are pro-gambling and Internet
gambling. I don't mess with such ambiguities or biases. I'm in
constant contact with thousands of players all the time for the dose
of reality that you are lacking, and it also doesn't take much
upstairs to figure out what type of players play this game when you
go in and look around the casinos all the time.

Rob

> When people discuss such issues, they usually speak in
generalities.
> Most people DO drive,

In this assertion that most people "DO" drive you must be limiting
your view to the non-third world counties. Or, do you believe your
statement is true all over the world and most of them are not "good
people".

> just as most people who play video poker are
> overweight, they on average drink much more than others, their
income
> level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
> determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're not

all

> like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our group

is

> like.
>

And what scientific study, may I ask, is this pearl of wisdom based
on? I doubt the demographics of the gambling population is all that
different from the general population, but if you have something to
backup your assertion please feel free to post it. By the way, I

have

seen a study on gamblers income and education levels. The group as

a

whole was ABOVE average. I don't remember where I saw this but if I
can find it I will post a link.

It looks to me like you've created a view in your mind that

gamblers

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:
are generally "bad people" to justify your behavior. It wouldn't be
nice to "scam" good people.

Dick

You're in contact with thousands of people? Why are dicking around
with this yahoo group? You are on here all the time. There is only
a 100 members.

You probably live in a trailer outside of Laughlin.

No, I've BEEN all over the world many times over, and have lived

in 6

foreign countries. Most people ARE good people in 3rd world
countries, because they have far more drive in getting ahead than

we

do. The fact that they live like slugs means nothing to them, and
should mean nothing to us when we talk about 'good' or 'bad'.

I would state that what I do in video poker compared to what you

do,

I'm in a far better position to extract the truth about who plays

and

who does not than you or any of your studies. You likely have a

small

group of 'buddies' you hang around with - or a few family members,
and you might surf the Internet for other opinions that match

yours -

including studies by those who are pro-gambling and Internet
gambling. I don't mess with such ambiguities or biases. I'm in
constant contact with thousands of players all the time for the

dose

of reality that you are lacking, and it also doesn't take much
upstairs to figure out what type of players play this game when

you

go in and look around the casinos all the time.

Rob

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>

wrote:

> --- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...>

wrote:

> > When people discuss such issues, they usually speak in
> generalities.
> > Most people DO drive,
>
> In this assertion that most people "DO" drive you must be

limiting

> your view to the non-third world counties. Or, do you believe

your

> statement is true all over the world and most of them are

not "good

> people".
>
> > just as most people who play video poker are
> > overweight, they on average drink much more than others, their
> income
> > level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
> > determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're

not

all
> > like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our

group

is
> > like.
> >
>
> And what scientific study, may I ask, is this pearl of wisdom

based

> on? I doubt the demographics of the gambling population is all

that

> different from the general population, but if you have something

to

> backup your assertion please feel free to post it. By the way, I
have
> seen a study on gamblers income and education levels. The group

as

a
> whole was ABOVE average. I don't remember where I saw this but

if I

> can find it I will post a link.
>
> It looks to me like you've created a view in your mind that
gamblers
> are generally "bad people" to justify your behavior. It wouldn't

be

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

> nice to "scam" good people.
>
> Dick

Well, that could be....but maybe not too! Most people who live in
trailer parks buy five bucks worth of gas for their junk cars and old
pick-ups 10 times a week, they pick up a pack of smokes every time
they pass by a 7-11 or Circle K, and they play video poker with
either their paltry paychecks or their welfare checks. Good thing
casinos don't take food stamps.

I think you asked how do I find the time to be in contact with so
many places & people? I have 3 computers monitoring incoming
messages, and whenever I walk by one of them I take a peak.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hansjurgent" <hansjurgent16@h...>
wrote:

You're in contact with thousands of people? Why are dicking around
with this yahoo group? You are on here all the time. There is

only

a 100 members.

You probably live in a trailer outside of Laughlin.

> No, I've BEEN all over the world many times over, and have lived
in 6
> foreign countries. Most people ARE good people in 3rd world
> countries, because they have far more drive in getting ahead than
we
> do. The fact that they live like slugs means nothing to them, and
> should mean nothing to us when we talk about 'good' or 'bad'.
>
> I would state that what I do in video poker compared to what you
do,
> I'm in a far better position to extract the truth about who plays
and
> who does not than you or any of your studies. You likely have a
small
> group of 'buddies' you hang around with - or a few family

members,

> and you might surf the Internet for other opinions that match
yours -
> including studies by those who are pro-gambling and Internet
> gambling. I don't mess with such ambiguities or biases. I'm in
> constant contact with thousands of players all the time for the
dose
> of reality that you are lacking, and it also doesn't take much
> upstairs to figure out what type of players play this game when
you
> go in and look around the casinos all the time.
>
> Rob
>
> --- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>
wrote:
> > --- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...>
wrote:
> > > When people discuss such issues, they usually speak in
> > generalities.
> > > Most people DO drive,
> >
> > In this assertion that most people "DO" drive you must be
limiting
> > your view to the non-third world counties. Or, do you believe
your
> > statement is true all over the world and most of them are
not "good
> > people".
> >
> > > just as most people who play video poker are
> > > overweight, they on average drink much more than others,

their

> > income
> > > level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
> > > determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're
not
> all
> > > like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our
group
> is
> > > like.
> > >
> >
> > And what scientific study, may I ask, is this pearl of wisdom
based
> > on? I doubt the demographics of the gambling population is all
that
> > different from the general population, but if you have

something

to
> > backup your assertion please feel free to post it. By the way,

I

> have
> > seen a study on gamblers income and education levels. The group
as
> a
> > whole was ABOVE average. I don't remember where I saw this but
if I
> > can find it I will post a link.
> >
> > It looks to me like you've created a view in your mind that
> gamblers
> > are generally "bad people" to justify your behavior. It

wouldn't

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:
be
> > nice to "scam" good people.
> >
> > Dick

deadin7 wrote:

snip

I think you asked how do I find the time to be in contact with so
many places & people? I have 3 computers monitoring incoming
messages, and whenever I walk by one of them I take a peak.

snip

Damned. For a guy with money, and an electrical engineer to boot, why in the hell are you doing it like that? What do you have -- three dial-up connections? Hell, man, get yourself one good computer and one high-speed DSL, and the right software, and you'll be able to keep up with more people than you could ever possibly maintain correspondance with.

Cheers.

Bill

You couldn't begin to understand the equipment I have around here,
because you can't buy it. The 3 are necessary for a reason, and 2 of
them have nothing to do with keeping in touch with video poker
players.

You know, maybe I'll suggest this set-up to your idol the Queen.
Imagine how many on-line casinos she could satisfy her habit of
playing a ton of vp with! Oops--I forgot. There wouldn't be anybody
to treat her with the VIP treatment, or pass along all that attention
she craves, or be there to hear her babble and shreik "Look At Me!
Look At Me!" when she finally hits a taxable. Oh well....back to that
classy Terrible's again. It's a 'great play' at 101.05% with that
trip to Hawaii and the car they're "giving" away added in just to
create a reason to play. It would sure be IMPOSSIBLE to win if the
thing paid only 99.7%, and a frugal player would NEVER risk that!

deadin7 wrote:

Damned. For a guy with money, and an electrical engineer to boot,

why

in the hell are you doing it like that? What do you have -- three
dial-up connections? Hell, man, get yourself one good computer and

one

high-speed DSL, and the right software, and you'll be able to keep

up

with more people than you could ever possibly maintain

correspondance with.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:

Cheers.

Bill

No, I've BEEN all over the world many times over, and have lived in

6

foreign countries. Most people ARE good people in 3rd world
countries, because they have far more drive in getting ahead than

we

do. The fact that they live like slugs means nothing to them, and
should mean nothing to us when we talk about 'good' or 'bad'.

Puting down Americans now?

While I've only been to 4 foreign countries I saw both good and bad.
Just like in America. And, it had nothing to do with the way they
drove.

I would state that what I do in video poker compared to what you

do,

I'm in a far better position to extract the truth about who plays

and

who does not than you or any of your studies.

Since you know nothing about me how could you possibly have any idea
whether you're in a "far better position" than I am? Sounds somewhat
egotistical to me. As far as the truth goes, you have clearly made up
your mind what "truth" fits your goals. Makes it easier to perpetrate
a scam doesn't it?

It appears your opinion of others is really just a reflection of your
opinion of yourself.

By the way, I suspect I've been to casinos in more states than you
think. However, that really doesn't make much difference since people
are pretty much "good people" all over.

You likely have a small
group of 'buddies' you hang around with - or a few family members,

Nope.

and you might surf the Internet for other opinions that match

yours -

including studies by those who are pro-gambling and Internet
gambling.

Nope. I have no interest in any of these studies. I just happened on
one by accident. However, since I have an open mind I was able to
look at it at face value instead of denying it out of hand.

I don't mess with such ambiguities or biases. I'm in
constant contact with thousands of players all the time
for the dose
of reality that you are lacking, and it also doesn't take much
upstairs to figure out what type of players play this game when you
go in and look around the casinos all the time.

Rob

Let's see, you are "in constant contact with thousands of players all
the time". Must keep you pretty busy. How do you ever manage to get
out of the house?

Could this be a little bit of exaggeration? Someday you should take
some time to actually talk to some of the people at the casinos you
visit. You'll find most of them are just like anybody you'd meet at
any other venue. Oh, that's right, that would make it more difficult
for you to moralize your actions.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

Puting down Americans now?

Where did you get that?

While I've only been to 4 foreign countries I saw both good and
bad. Just like in America. And, it had nothing to do with the way
they drove.

Just like in the perception you'd like of video poker players--and
the one you'd prefer of me--you have little experience to be
qualified enough to even be writing about the subjects.

Since you know nothing about me how could you possibly have any
idea whether you're in a "far better position" than I am? Sounds
somewhat egotistical to me. As far as the truth goes, you have
clearly made up your mind what "truth" fits your goals. Makes it
easier to perpetrate a scam doesn't it? It appears your opinion of
others is really just a reflection of your opinion of yourself.

If there were more to know about yourself then you'd come out and say
it, instead of ignoring that fact and engulfing yourself inside your
theoretical fantasy you have about me.

By the way, I suspect I've been to casinos in more states than you
think. However, that really doesn't make much difference since
people are pretty much "good people" all over.

What I think doesn't matter unless you want it to. But you are pretty
easy to read, and I have a lot of experience in that area.

> You likely have a small
> group of 'buddies' you hang around with - or a few family members,

Nope.

So you're a loner, and would your only comrade be the casino ATM?
  

Nope. I have no interest in any of these studies. I just happened
on one by accident. However, since I have an open mind I was able to
look at it at face value instead of denying it out of hand.

So how is it that you purport to be more knowledgeable than me when
it comes to video poker and who plays it? Seems to me you ought to
listen more and blindly complain less.

Let's see, you are "in constant contact with thousands of players
all the time". Must keep you pretty busy. How do you ever manage to
get out of the house?

I'm able to do a lot of things other vp players cannot. Let's see, I
don't smoke, I drink very little, I'm in my age-level's top physical
shape, and I don't sit for endless & wasteful hours at video poker
machines chasing someone else's phony dream while widening the girth
and loading the lungs up with smoke so I can't move much when it
counts.

Could this be a little bit of exaggeration? Someday you should take
some time to actually talk to some of the people at the casinos you
visit. You'll find most of them are just like anybody you'd meet at
any other venue. Oh, that's right, that would make it more
difficult for you to moralize your actions.

Dick, that's the way you'd like it to be, but it just ain't so--and
deep down inside you really know that. The problem with most vp
players--and I'd qualify that by using the term 'locals' is that they
are foolishly addicted to everyday play--and that really is a waste
of lifetime. I was a part of that pathetic group up until late 1996,
even though I was a frequent visitor. My harsh words on this help a
lot of people--many like you at first, who are offended and don't
want anything I say to be true--but it becomes a whole new world for
them later on. And I do talk to many, many players every time I go--
many by pre-set meets.

deadin7 wrote:

Here's an example of just one of many, many e-mails I receive every
week.

Rob;
you're a savior!!!! ... For someone like me who is on fixed income and
starting out, VP didn't sound too cool. That is, until you came along.
Next time when I go back to AC I'm going to take a Post-It note with
me and stick on the machine with this message on it: Remember, Do It
Rob's Way! Thank you, Sir!
George

Rob,

I have a short memory ... remind me. What's "Rob's Way" for someone
on a fixed income?

- H.

rgmustain wrote:

Rob, if this is your definition of "good people" then I think you
need to expand your thinking quite a bit. Some people don't even
drive. I guess by your definition they could never be "good people".

As someone who seldom drives (love city life!), I took Rob far less
literally and assumed this has to do with how people behave toward
others when they're not directly accountable.

One more thing. I did not originally take the gurus words on faith.
So, in 1998 when I started playing VP I wrote my own computer
programs to analyze VP. Guess what? I came up with the identical
results as described by the gurus.

Resolving that age old question, "How do you do that voodoo you do, guru?"

- H.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

rgmustain wrote:
> Rob, if this is your definition of "good people" then I think you
> need to expand your thinking quite a bit. Some people don't even
> drive. I guess by your definition they could never be "good

people".

As someone who seldom drives (love city life!), I took Rob far less
literally and assumed this has to do with how people behave toward
others when they're not directly accountable.

Harry, I took it as "look at me, I'm better than you", which is
pretty much what Rob says all the time.

> One more thing. I did not originally take the gurus words on

faith.

> So, in 1998 when I started playing VP I wrote my own computer
> programs to analyze VP. Guess what? I came up with the identical
> results as described by the gurus.

Resolving that age old question, "How do you do that voodoo you do,

guru?"

- H.

yep. It wasn't easy at first until I figured out some shortcuts.

Dick

> Puting down Americans now?

Where did you get that?

I read what you wrote. I see you snipped that to avoid the obvious.

> While I've only been to 4 foreign countries I saw both good and
>bad. Just like in America. And, it had nothing to do with the way
>they drove.

Just like in the perception you'd like of video poker players--and
the one you'd prefer of me--you have little experience to be
qualified enough to even be writing about the subjects.

Once again you are making uninformed assumptions about my knowledge.
This is typical in all your writings. But, if you must know, I have
quite a bit of experience dealing with people both in and out of
casinos. That comes from working over 30 years in a good job,
traveling all over the country and using some of my spare time
gambling for over 25 years.

> Since you know nothing about me how could you possibly have any
>idea whether you're in a "far better position" than I am? Sounds
>somewhat egotistical to me. As far as the truth goes, you have
>clearly made up your mind what "truth" fits your goals. Makes it
>easier to perpetrate a scam doesn't it? It appears your opinion of
>others is really just a reflection of your opinion of yourself.

If there were more to know about yourself then you'd come out and

say

it, instead of ignoring that fact and engulfing yourself inside

your

theoretical fantasy you have about me.

More assumptions. Wrong again.

Just because you have no problem telling us how great you are does
not make that a personality attribute most people desire.

> By the way, I suspect I've been to casinos in more states than

you

> think. However, that really doesn't make much difference since
>people are pretty much "good people" all over.

What I think doesn't matter unless you want it to. But you are

pretty

easy to read, and I have a lot of experience in that area.

If I'm so easy easy to read then why have you been wrong on every one
of your comments about me. Maybe you're not as smart as you think ...

> > You likely have a small
> > group of 'buddies' you hang around with - or a few family

members,

> Nope.

So you're a loner, and would your only comrade be the casino ATM?

Wrong again, never been to a casino ATM. And I have lots of friends.
I let this one hang to see what you'd say. What you said is the exact
opposite of what you said before pretty much showing you have no
capability of reading anyone.

> Nope. I have no interest in any of these studies. I just happened
>on one by accident. However, since I have an open mind I was able

to

> look at it at face value instead of denying it out of hand.

So how is it that you purport to be more knowledgeable than me when
it comes to video poker and who plays it?

Although you are a "self-proclaimed" expert, you don't appear to know
as much than many posters on the vpfree forum. And if you took the
time to read what I wrote above, I was not claiming to be an expert.
I was simply referring to a published study.

Seems to me you ought to
listen more

To you? You've got to be kidding! However, I do listen to those who
have something useful to say.

Say something useful instead of denigrating others and maybe I will
listen.

and blindly complain less.

Complain about what? Again, you should read more closely.

> Let's see, you are "in constant contact with thousands of players
>all the time". Must keep you pretty busy. How do you ever manage

to

>get out of the house?

I'm able to do a lot of things other vp players cannot. Let's see,

I

don't smoke, I drink very little, I'm in my age-level's top

physical

shape, and I don't sit for endless & wasteful hours at video poker
machines chasing someone else's phony dream while widening the

girth

and loading the lungs up with smoke so I can't move much when it
counts.

It appears to me you are patting yourself on the back again. Lot's of
us don't smoke or drink, however, just about everyone I know has some
bad habits. Are you saying you're perfect?

Anyway, that has little to do with the topic at hand which is a
typical obfuscation you use when someone points out how impossible
your claims are.

> Could this be a little bit of exaggeration? Someday you should

take

> some time to actually talk to some of the people at the casinos

you

> visit. You'll find most of them are just like anybody you'd meet

at

> any other venue. Oh, that's right, that would make it more
>difficult for you to moralize your actions.

Dick, that's the way you'd like it to be, but it just ain't so--and
deep down inside you really know that.

Nope, wrong again. Deep down inside I perceive you as a mean spirited
scam artist.

The problem with most vp
players--and I'd qualify that by using the term 'locals'

If that is what you mean then that is what you should say. There is a
huge difference in referring to casino players all over the
country/world versus referring to Las Vegas locals. And, how does
your previous claim of living in 6 other countries contribute to your
comments about this redefined group?

I see this type of behavior all the time. When losing a debate you
try the ole " ... what I really meant was ...". Really laughable!

is that they
are foolishly addicted to everyday play--and that really is a waste
of lifetime.

Is it? What makes you think your opinion on _other_ peoples
lifestyles is important? Your ego is showing again.

I was a part of that pathetic group up until late 1996,

Maybe _your_ lifestype was pathetic, that doesn't mean it is for
others as well. You have all the earmarks of a person who _always_
thinks he knows what's best for everyone else.

even though I was a frequent visitor. My harsh words on this help a
lot of people--many like you at first, who are offended and don't
want anything I say to be true--but it becomes a whole new world

for

them later on. And I do talk to many, many players every time I go--
many by pre-set meets.

I won't deny there are people with gambling addications that should
never set foot in a casino. SO? There are lot's of people who gamble
for fun and profit. Unfortunately, you like to lump everyone together
in your unending generalities.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

Earlier in this thread I quoted a study. Thanks to some help from
Linda you can find the information on Page 13.

www.americangaming.org/assets/files/AGA_survey_2002.pdf

While this is a survey funded by the American Gaming Association, it
was conducted by an independent agency.

Dick

I have a short memory ... remind me. What's "Rob's Way" for someone
on a fixed income?

- H.

I imagine the born-again poster meant that he will now set goals and
actually get up and leave when the trip goal--win or lose--is met. I
hear it all the time--people go to LV or elsewhere with $800 or so,
they get ahead by any amount (sometimes even after a royal or two--
you've seen that type thing posted on VPFREE several times) and they
go home with little or nothing, and/or they hit the ATM's for more
punishment before they go home.

RS

As someone who seldom drives (love city life!), I took Rob far less
literally and assumed this has to do with how people behave toward
others when they're not directly accountable.

I envy you Harry for not driving often.
Your assumption is pretty close. Unless it's a hot chick, name one
time you actually liked or respected that person sitting next to you
at a light, or didn't have a problem with them when they cut you off
or drove too closely behind your car. People turn into near-monsters
more often than not when they get into their little enclosure,
thinking 'you'd better not invade my space, buddy'. Why do you think
video poker players who all have the same thing in common, hate to
have someone sit next to or either near them when they're playing.
It's their little bit of space that they theorize is private to them,
and they want no part of anybody else.

> One more thing. I did not originally take the gurus words on

faith.

> So, in 1998 when I started playing VP I wrote my own computer
> programs to analyze VP. Guess what? I came up with the identical
> results as described by the gurus.

Resolving that age old question, "How do you do that voodoo you do,

guru?"

···

- H.

Harry, I took it as "look at me, I'm better than you", which is
pretty much what Rob says all the time.

I think you've got me mixed up with your Queen. "Look at me" is her
moniker--permanently painted on her forehead. She loves it when the
casino hosts come in to restaurants to visit her and her boyfriend in
the middle of a comped meal and make a big, loud-mouthed, patro-
disturbing deal about saying hello and trading niceties. The "I'm
better than you" comment wasn't complete. It should read "I play
video poker better than you"--which is entirely true.

One more thing. I did not originally take the gurus words on
faith. So, in 1998 when I started playing VP I wrote my own
computer programs to analyze VP. Guess what? I came up with the
identical results as described by the gurus.

Again, vp programs are for those who believe there's a casino out
there named Shangra-la.

Puting down Americans now?
>
> Where did you get that?

I read what you wrote. I see you snipped that to avoid the obvious.

Reading with understanding may be the main shortcoming of all math
geeks.

Once again you are making uninformed assumptions about my

knowledge.

This is typical in all your writings. But, if you must know, I have
quite a bit of experience dealing with people both in and out of
casinos. That comes from working over 30 years in a good job,
traveling all over the country and using some of my spare time
gambling for over 25 years.

I didn't really need to know that, because it's not much different
than what most people do. Most. I chose to become knowledgeable about
video poker and who plays it by going several notches above that
level, which is why I write books about it and have the most popular
column on the subject in the country. I compare you and your video
poker views about me to the few around this country who like to try
to be heard protesting the war on terror and in Iraq. They can moan
all they want, chant all they want, march all they want, and make
fools out of themselves all they want....but it ain't gonna change a
thing about the war and the fact that we're doing the waaay right
thing.

Just because you have no problem telling us how great you are does
not make that a personality attribute most people desire.

You think I'm telling people 'how great' I am, but that's only a
position you take because I believe you know I'm right about what I
say regarding video poker, and you reject my reported extreme results
because any player who could do so well, in your mind, would make you
understandably very jealous. Generally, when someone is so bold as to
publicly come out and tell the truth about a subject - no matter how
irritating or vain it may appear - some will be offended. That's why
I was prepared for all the critics and bad-mounting, and why I
continue on when every one of the old guru crowd said I'd be gone in
60 seconds.
   

If I'm so easy easy to read then why have you been wrong on every

one of your comments about me. Maybe you're not as smart as you
think ...

So you say....
  

> So you're a loner, and would your only comrade be the casino ATM?

Wrong again, never been to a casino ATM. And I have lots of

friends. I let this one hang to see what you'd say. What you said is
the exact opposite of what you said before pretty much showing you
have no capability of reading anyone.

So you say, again.... I kind of think you're the one who said two
different things about your video poker play.

Although you are a "self-proclaimed" expert, you don't appear to
know as much than many posters on the vpfree forum. And if you took
the time to read what I wrote above, I was not claiming to be an
expert.

If you're referring to the mathamaticle psycho-babble that people
post on vpfree, I have no interest in knowing all that nonsense on
bankroll calculations ridiculously created in the clouds, risk-of-
ruin baloney that has no meaning whatsoever to anyone who goes into a
casino to play, what holding a deal this way vs. that way is worth in
terms of incredibly comical cents/hour, or how they formulate foolish
percentages that when added to theoretical pay back amounts, the
addicts can have at it because it's 100.01% when they won't touch one
that's 99.9%. Other than that, no one I've read comes close to my
knowledge about the game.

I do listen to those who have something useful to say.
Say something useful instead of denigrating others and maybe I will
listen.

You've shown you won't listen to common sense. You may want others to
believe you will, but your responses clearly show you have a firm,
one-track mind about the game. Why? Because I've heard from others
like you that, once they understood my message and altered their long-
term/math-models-are-right-for-video-poker-play approach to short-
term strategies, they found playing much less every time they went to
a casino did not satisfy their insatiable compulsion to sit and play
on and on for hours--so they went back to chasing that tiny
percentage that only appears if they get lucky enough times before
they are put to rest.

It appears to me you are patting yourself on the back again. Lot's
of us don't smoke or drink, however, just about everyone I know has
some bad habits. Are you saying you're perfect?

I have some bad habits, yes, but they have nothing to do with
disrespecting and abusing my body - and other people's.

Anyway, that has little to do with the topic at hand which is a
typical obfuscation you use when someone points out how impossible
your claims are.

???
  

Dick, that's the way you'd like it to be, but it just ain't so--
and deep down inside you really know that.

Nope, wrong again. Deep down inside I perceive you as a mean
spirited scam artist.

Well, scam artists don't last, experts in business recognize them
almost immediately when it very well could effect their bottom line,
and those gurus who've been exposed by them would totally ignore what
they do. Your heroes Dancer, Scott, Paymar, Hughes, Wong and the rest
of that clique continue to lash out at me in a very predictable way.
That's Ok if you believe I'm mean-spirited, but I have access to many
details about others that these 'gurus' know I have based on the ways
I present it on forums and in the media without mentioning names. As
in most cases, the truth hurts, so they do the things they do with
me. Those of you who idolize them have no idea what I'm saying when I
write these things, so you take the simpleton's approach and say I'm
mean. I consider that fair.

> The problem with most vp
> players--and I'd qualify that by using the term 'locals'

If that is what you mean then that is what you should say.

I did. Look at it again.

There is a huge difference in referring to casino players all over
the country/world versus referring to Las Vegas locals.

No kidding.... That's why I qualified it.

And, how does your previous claim of living in 6 other countries
contribute to your comments about this redefined group?

It doesn't.

I see this type of behavior all the time. When losing a debate you
try the ole " ... what I really meant was ...". Really laughable!

Once again, ???

> is that they
> are foolishly addicted to everyday play--and that really is a
waste of lifetime.
Is it? What makes you think your opinion on _other_ peoples
lifestyles is important? Your ego is showing again.

Yeah, it is. That's part of being a public writer. Telling the truth
about video poker players so some may be able to get the help they
need--from me or elsewhere. Are you one of these players who play too
often, and who can't go on a regular vacation like you used to any
longer because it's boring without the machines? There's so many
people who write to me from LV and Reno about this, and it's really
unfortunate. Casinos control their lives, whether it be from the need
to chase promotions all over town or thru the use of their slot club
cards to get as many points as possible. I've helped people overcome
that curse because I was there, and I overcame it myself. So what's
your qualifications.

Maybe _your_ lifestype was pathetic, that doesn't mean it is for
others as well. You have all the earmarks of a person who _always_
thinks he knows what's best for everyone else.

My lifestyle wasn't pathetic. I had lots of income, I'd been and seen
just about everything everywhere, but I didn't have any spare time
because I was always rushing off to Nevada whenever I got home to
give the casinos money for as long as I could stay awake. Experience
is a valuable tool, and people listen to it now. Those who reject it
today will hear it tomorrow. (What does _xxxx_ mean anyway - Are you
hitting the wrong key?) Bill Velek does that too.
  

I won't deny there are people with gambling addications that should
never set foot in a casino. SO? There are lot's of people who
gamble for fun and profit. Unfortunately, you like to lump everyone
together in your unending generalities.

I agree there are those who play for fun, and most every one of them
lose and go back to where they came in from. That's one of
those "lump generalities" I give that you don't like, but you know
it's true. Casinos like these people for their small deposits once or
twice a year of course. But I've taken this a step further and asked
maybe 9 or 10 casino managers around Nevada how they feel about those
who say they're expert, computer-perfect players that claim to win
all the time and take away tons of comps, gifts, cash-back and other
freebies from the slot clubs. Only once (at the former Regent) did
the manager tell me he was leary of Mr. X playing there because he
always seemed to win. Of course that was luck and he knew it, but
when he added it up it could only be answered in that way to him. The
remainder of the managers' comments ranged from extreme laughter
to "why do you think we have those promotions all the time" to them
thinking I was nuts for asking such a dumb question.

RS

Rob,

I see you have reverted to incessant babble. Add that to your
constant self praising makes you a really poor debater.

Since this thread has gotten way off subject, let's get back to some
of your original statements that I disagreed with:

···

--------------------------------------------------------------------
... Likewise, my play results
also drastically turned around when I recognized the faulty and
misleading ways of the gurus teachings in 1996.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Please provide concrete evidence. I know you will just avoid this or
throw out preposterous claims with no supporting evidence.

In addition, you stated:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
... most people who play video poker are
overweight, they on average drink much more than others, their income
level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're not all
like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our group is
like.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Since you should have now seen the study I refered to what is you
take on this?

Clearly, you are not the expert you claim to be.

Dick

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

> Puting down Americans now?
> >
> > Where did you get that?
>
> I read what you wrote. I see you snipped that to avoid the

obvious.

Reading with understanding may be the main shortcoming of all math
geeks.
>
> Once again you are making uninformed assumptions about my
knowledge.
> This is typical in all your writings. But, if you must know, I

have

> quite a bit of experience dealing with people both in and out of
> casinos. That comes from working over 30 years in a good job,
> traveling all over the country and using some of my spare time
> gambling for over 25 years.

I didn't really need to know that, because it's not much different
than what most people do. Most. I chose to become knowledgeable

about

video poker and who plays it by going several notches above that
level, which is why I write books about it and have the most

popular

column on the subject in the country. I compare you and your video
poker views about me to the few around this country who like to try
to be heard protesting the war on terror and in Iraq. They can moan
all they want, chant all they want, march all they want, and make
fools out of themselves all they want....but it ain't gonna change

a

thing about the war and the fact that we're doing the waaay right
thing.

> Just because you have no problem telling us how great you are

does

> not make that a personality attribute most people desire.

You think I'm telling people 'how great' I am, but that's only a
position you take because I believe you know I'm right about what I
say regarding video poker, and you reject my reported extreme

results

because any player who could do so well, in your mind, would make

you

understandably very jealous. Generally, when someone is so bold as

to

publicly come out and tell the truth about a subject - no matter

how

irritating or vain it may appear - some will be offended. That's

why

I was prepared for all the critics and bad-mounting, and why I
continue on when every one of the old guru crowd said I'd be gone

in

60 seconds.
   
> If I'm so easy easy to read then why have you been wrong on every
one of your comments about me. Maybe you're not as smart as you
think ...

So you say....
  
> > So you're a loner, and would your only comrade be the casino

ATM?

>
> Wrong again, never been to a casino ATM. And I have lots of
friends. I let this one hang to see what you'd say. What you said

is

the exact opposite of what you said before pretty much showing you
have no capability of reading anyone.

So you say, again.... I kind of think you're the one who said two
different things about your video poker play.

> Although you are a "self-proclaimed" expert, you don't appear to
>know as much than many posters on the vpfree forum. And if you

took

>the time to read what I wrote above, I was not claiming to be an
>expert.

If you're referring to the mathamaticle psycho-babble that people
post on vpfree, I have no interest in knowing all that nonsense on
bankroll calculations ridiculously created in the clouds, risk-of-
ruin baloney that has no meaning whatsoever to anyone who goes into

a

casino to play, what holding a deal this way vs. that way is worth

in

terms of incredibly comical cents/hour, or how they formulate

foolish

percentages that when added to theoretical pay back amounts, the
addicts can have at it because it's 100.01% when they won't touch

one

that's 99.9%. Other than that, no one I've read comes close to my
knowledge about the game.

>I do listen to those who have something useful to say.
>Say something useful instead of denigrating others and maybe I

will

>listen.

You've shown you won't listen to common sense. You may want others

to

believe you will, but your responses clearly show you have a firm,
one-track mind about the game. Why? Because I've heard from others
like you that, once they understood my message and altered their

long-

term/math-models-are-right-for-video-poker-play approach to short-
term strategies, they found playing much less every time they went

to

a casino did not satisfy their insatiable compulsion to sit and

play

on and on for hours--so they went back to chasing that tiny
percentage that only appears if they get lucky enough times before
they are put to rest.

> It appears to me you are patting yourself on the back again.

Lot's

>of us don't smoke or drink, however, just about everyone I know

has

>some bad habits. Are you saying you're perfect?

I have some bad habits, yes, but they have nothing to do with
disrespecting and abusing my body - and other people's.

> Anyway, that has little to do with the topic at hand which is a
> typical obfuscation you use when someone points out how

impossible

> your claims are.

???
  
>>Dick, that's the way you'd like it to be, but it just ain't so--
>>and deep down inside you really know that.
>Nope, wrong again. Deep down inside I perceive you as a mean
>spirited scam artist.

Well, scam artists don't last, experts in business recognize them
almost immediately when it very well could effect their bottom

line,

and those gurus who've been exposed by them would totally ignore

what

they do. Your heroes Dancer, Scott, Paymar, Hughes, Wong and the

rest

of that clique continue to lash out at me in a very predictable

way.

That's Ok if you believe I'm mean-spirited, but I have access to

many

details about others that these 'gurus' know I have based on the

ways

I present it on forums and in the media without mentioning names.

As

in most cases, the truth hurts, so they do the things they do with
me. Those of you who idolize them have no idea what I'm saying when

I

write these things, so you take the simpleton's approach and say

I'm

mean. I consider that fair.

> > The problem with most vp
> > players--and I'd qualify that by using the term 'locals'
>
> If that is what you mean then that is what you should say.

I did. Look at it again.

>There is a huge difference in referring to casino players all over
>the country/world versus referring to Las Vegas locals.

No kidding.... That's why I qualified it.

>And, how does your previous claim of living in 6 other countries
>contribute to your comments about this redefined group?

It doesn't.

> I see this type of behavior all the time. When losing a debate

you

> try the ole " ... what I really meant was ...". Really laughable!

Once again, ???

> > is that they
> > are foolishly addicted to everyday play--and that really is a
>waste of lifetime.
> Is it? What makes you think your opinion on _other_ peoples
> lifestyles is important? Your ego is showing again.

Yeah, it is. That's part of being a public writer. Telling the

truth

about video poker players so some may be able to get the help they
need--from me or elsewhere. Are you one of these players who play

too

often, and who can't go on a regular vacation like you used to any
longer because it's boring without the machines? There's so many
people who write to me from LV and Reno about this, and it's really
unfortunate. Casinos control their lives, whether it be from the

need

to chase promotions all over town or thru the use of their slot

club

cards to get as many points as possible. I've helped people

overcome

that curse because I was there, and I overcame it myself. So what's
your qualifications.

> Maybe _your_ lifestype was pathetic, that doesn't mean it is for
> others as well. You have all the earmarks of a person who

_always_

> thinks he knows what's best for everyone else.

My lifestyle wasn't pathetic. I had lots of income, I'd been and

seen

just about everything everywhere, but I didn't have any spare time
because I was always rushing off to Nevada whenever I got home to
give the casinos money for as long as I could stay awake.

Experience

is a valuable tool, and people listen to it now. Those who reject

it

today will hear it tomorrow. (What does _xxxx_ mean anyway - Are

you

hitting the wrong key?) Bill Velek does that too.
  
> I won't deny there are people with gambling addications that

should

> never set foot in a casino. SO? There are lot's of people who
>gamble for fun and profit. Unfortunately, you like to lump

everyone

>together in your unending generalities.

I agree there are those who play for fun, and most every one of

them

lose and go back to where they came in from. That's one of
those "lump generalities" I give that you don't like, but you know
it's true. Casinos like these people for their small deposits once

or

twice a year of course. But I've taken this a step further and

asked

maybe 9 or 10 casino managers around Nevada how they feel about

those

who say they're expert, computer-perfect players that claim to win
all the time and take away tons of comps, gifts, cash-back and

other

freebies from the slot clubs. Only once (at the former Regent) did
the manager tell me he was leary of Mr. X playing there because he
always seemed to win. Of course that was luck and he knew it, but
when he added it up it could only be answered in that way to him.

The

remainder of the managers' comments ranged from extreme laughter
to "why do you think we have those promotions all the time" to them
thinking I was nuts for asking such a dumb question.

RS

I see you have reverted to incessant babble. Add that to your
constant self praising makes you a really poor debater.
Since this thread has gotten way off subject, let's get back to
some of your original statements that I disagreed with:

If you weren't bothered by the logic of what I said and how I said
it, i.e., if I didn't hit home several times, you wouldn't be making
rhetorical statements like you did above.

···

--------------------------------------------------------------------
... Likewise, my play results
also drastically turned around when I recognized the faulty and
misleading ways of the gurus teachings in 1996.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Please provide concrete evidence. I know you will just avoid this

or throw out preposterous claims with no supporting evidence.

What more concrete evidence is there than one's own experience, told
to others in public as no one has ever done before? and tell me you
don't now realize, because of me, that Dan Paymar, Bob Dancer,
Stanford Wong, Jean Scott, Skip Hughes, etc. would never tell us how
poor their results really are because it would hurt their sales - and
therefore their income to play vp with. Or maybe you prefer to think
that the more vocal of that group really do win win win and rape the
slot clubs, while constantly publicly reporting that stuff as the
casino managers 'look the other way'. Obviously the whole long-term
play issue is very misleading to players, it hurts many of them
(again, from talking to many former sheep to this Huntington Press
crowd) and it is a vice that people can do without. So you think Bob
Dancer teaches out of the kindness of his heart, and casinos invite
him in knowing they'll lose their ass to him if he plays there? I
invite you to use your head.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
... most people who play video poker are
overweight, they on average drink much more than others, their

income

level is far below the norm, and their levels of discipline,
determination & self-confidence are severely lacking. We're not all
like that, but in general, overwhelmingly that's what our group is
like.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Since you should have now seen the study I refered to what is you
take on this?

Clearly, you are not the expert you claim to be.

I haven't seen the study or whatever it is you're talking about. I
don't need to see one to know what's going on out there. That's why
i'm the expert and you're the critic.