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#161

Nope, your imagination is running wild. I've indicated your

continual lying calls your wins into question, but that's it. I've
also said some people WILL win playing with a negative expectation.
Remember that bell curve Mr. MBS?

So now that you are once again cornered, you claim that it is
possible that I am NOT a liar about my results, people WILL win on
negative games (that's curious), and you rest all your dignity with
that Bell curve. That's what's wild.

Finally, one more time, and at least a zillion times now, I don't
care if you've won or not. It has nothing to do with the topic at
hand.

The topic at hand is in fact my record and the fact that it is real
even though you are frustrated no end about not being able to put it
together mathematically. No one cares whether or not you care if I
win or not. You're the one with a zillion problems to solve in that
neurotic mind of yours. I'm happy getting ready to go out back for a
swim and a few minutes in the jacuzzi, and then packing for
tomorrow's trip to New Orleans. Other than trying to fix that slide
rule of yours, what's your day like?

> Better get your facts in order before trying to
> adjust your words with me, Dicky. And....so-called 'advantage

play'

> is nothing more than addict hype - by you and the relatively few
> others who sell it to other players.

That's exactly what I mean, you just lied one more time. You are

such a loser.

Denial. The true sign of a losing gambler.

> All I can see is that you're a wannabee nut in the land of 10,000
> geeks. Today it's this and tomorrow it's that.

Now, your backing off again with a bunch of nonsense. I made a
factual statement and you blubber away.

That was so good I'll put it in again. All I can see is that you're a
wannabee nut in the land of 10,000 geeks. Today it's this and
tomorrow it's that.

> >
Nope, you asked about being a liar and I responded with how you can
stop being a called a liar.

You're a little mixed up again. When YOU call me a liar (which you
keep saying you do and you don't and you do and you don't) it not
only tells others that I'm not--I get to ridicule you here again and
again as you waffle on the issue. I hope your old heart can take all
this!

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with

it, honesty has everything to do with it. If you want to put
something on your website about using a progression just make sure

to indicate that playing on negative machines using the progression
will not change the overall expectation. There's no doubt a
progession will lead to more session wins. You can put that on your
web site as well. You should, however, warn people that it can also
lead to a few SIGNIFICANT loses.

I choose a more thorough route. I post my actuals. Telling people
about theory means nothing to them. I explain most of my trips with
any significance so people can decide for themselves. You're the only
moron who can't scratch the itch on his butt away because of it all.

See, here you go again LYING through your teeth without a thread of
evidence to back you up. YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FRAUD!

Name a player who won't agree that advantage play is a loser. Exclude
yourself because you waffle too much, and your word means nothing
here. Yeah, right. Playing long and often on machines with a
marketing theory attached is a winner. Tell that to all the losers
out there who can't do it. And just what shape is your bell curve?

More LIES. Where's your proof, little Robbie? You have none and you
know it! You are such an idiot and a coward. It's obvious why you
won't use your real name.

So now theory applies to fallible humans? This is where you're so
weak, and why I believe you have little knowledge of applications in
mathematics. The short term for this is Internet hack.

Come on yellow belly, if you're so smart give out your real name.

All you are is a bunch of meaningless words, a coward and worthless
waste of oxygen.

Giving up?

Looks to me like you don't know how to prove anything. Wait, you

have proved what a coward you are. That's it. Little mamas' boy keeps

trying but the fact is everytime you submit a post without your

real name you keep proving your yellow colors all over again. That
must be the "butt-wipe" example you keep talking about?

Giving up again?

I believe SOME of what I read and I believe MOST of what I see.

And, if a problem submits itself to mathematical examination (like
VP), then I DO look for a mathematical proof of any claim. That's why
I know as a FACT that your progressive system is a FRAUD.

You're only an old fool who likes to argue. You don't believe a thing
unless you can prove it on paper, and you know it. VP has no place in
your math exam except for the most neurotic of players, those who
fraudulently sell it to others, or wannabees.

What is "it" you keep referring to, this mysterious "it". You never
define "it". Could "it" be the fact that you are a coward and a
fraud? Then, you do a real good job of proving "it" every time you
post.

It....my Play Strategy McFly.....

I think everyone, including you, knows EXACTLY what I mean.

But then your thinking has proven to be a bit lacking. Creative,
maybe. But very short on common sense.

> > Now you're backing down. Must be those panties up around your
neck. Come on, if you know so much let's have it. Otherwise admit

you were lying once again.

>
> I'm looking better by the minute. And you're looking more like a

weasel by the second.

Little Robbie, the coward, is trying hard to dodge around the real
issue, but he is smack in the middle of the target. Must be that
yellow slime that follows you around has impacted all of your

senses. Provide your real name, mamas boy, or get lost.

You're still giving up?

> Yup, and the Gov't. too. We ate computer programmers for a snack.

Is this an intelligent reply or what? And, you still have no clue

who Dilbert is ... Your FORMER, fellow employees must have
continually had huge laughs about you. Did Scott Adams work for you?

Who's Scott Adams?

The bigot in you is showing. And, if you were an advantage player

you could get in the VIP lines.

Whoopie! VIP lines!!! That way, those of us who like to stare at
losing vp players that think they have some kind of an advantage over
a casino can see all the fools lined up together! Kind of like
watching the smoking fools grouped together in some airport smoking
areas. Every one of them--idiots. And anyone who doesn't agree that
98% of vp players are low-lifes isn't in touch with reality.

One more example of your stupidity. Or, I suspect, another lie. Oh,
by the way, the Rio has called me on the phone with several free
offers. It's called casino marketing.

So Rio called you?? You absolute BRUTE you!! Whoopie! You probably
got sweaty hands just by writing that down--even if it wasn't true.
Imagine all the advantage play that went into such a feat!!!!

OK, are you up for a test? I'll give you ten hands and you tell me
the "best ones" to hold? Oh wait, the "best ones" means something
entirely different to you. They are whatever little Robbie decides

to hold. Your so-called "special plays".

How dumb can you be? What's the game? What's the pay table? You're so
inconsistent that I tingle.

Once again, when asked for any supporting evidence you just dodge

the

question. It's another reason why everyones knows you are the

biggest

liar and coward around. Come on, little Robbie, you made a

statement,

now either prove it, admit that you lied, or run back to your mama
crying.

Let's see you prove that butt-wiping exists pops. In fact, show us
the mathematical difference between the kind of toilet seat that's
larger with an opening up front, and those teeny little circles that
they install in dumps like Fiesta Rancho, Az. Charlie's, El Cortez,--
you know, the joints so-called 'advantage' players are reeled into
all the time.

> > Are these the same casino managers
> > that pulled out all the FPDW above .25 from the casino floors?
And,
> > don't try the BS about increasing profits, because your

statment

> > above indicated the high paybacks "reeled" us in. Another lie?
>
> The high paybacks are from the promotions.

That has nothing to do with what you said.

But YOU said it Einstein. Time for your nap.

Is this an example of your best, most intelligent reply? I'd love

to

talk with the casino manager who said this. Please pass on his/her
name. Of course, you can't since this is just another lie. You know
as well as I do that casino managers could care less how anyone

looks.

I care, and it's one big reason why I rarely go to some of those
joints. The fact is that FPDW players, for the most part, are weird
looking. Take a look at any bank.

Now you're trying to back off, while once again showing what a

bigot

you are. You know as well as I do that your original statement is
just another lie perpetrated by you in an attempt to make youself
look good. Your ego traps you again.

Big surprise. You don't believe me. Now you can add another "liar and
fraud' then 'I didn't say that' to your list of waffles.

Tell you what, I'll meet you at Sams' Town in 2 months and you can
introduce me to this casino manager and I can ask him/her directly.

I'll do it, but 10000:1 you're afraid to meet me. So post your pic
here for all to see besides just me.

> > Come on, babykins,
>
> What's a babykins? Is that a term in Minnesota?

It's a term for little sissies like you who don't have the balls to
use their REAL name when making ridiculous claims. So, just what is
your real name, babykins.

For some reason, I just got a woody when you said that. Are you sure
your daughter or wife didn't write it?

You don't have clue what "general applicability" means, do you? You
couldn't have shown your immense studipity any better than you did

in your response.

Jealous, aren't you once again.

> > What happened to your claim I lied about my name? and my
appearance?
>
> You'r name is correct.

But you said a few posts ago it wasn't.

And you clarified the Dick part. Are you still confused??

And you want people to believe the BS you write? You are such a liar
and a hypocrite on top of being a worthless coward.

> And you know you're a fat-ass. Now everyone does.

I think I'll leave that in there a while longer.....

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

#162

Sissies & cowards. Liars & frauds. When you have a pointless
argument, I guess you ramble. Especially when you're old, you reek of
envy, and are of no added value any longer. Good skill!

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

Sounds pretty familar. Could this be another little sissy hiding
behind a false name, or is this the original, #1 coward? Only time
will tell.

#163

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>

wrote:

> Nope, your imagination is running wild. I've indicated your
continual lying calls your wins into question, but that's it. I've
also said some people WILL win playing with a negative expectation.
Remember that bell curve Mr. MBS?

So now that you are once again cornered, you claim that it is
possible that I am NOT a liar about my results,

Nope, I NEVER said it. So, that makes you a liar once again.

people WILL win on
negative games (that's curious), and you rest all your dignity with
that Bell curve. That's what's wild.

Yep, that same bell curve that causes electricity to flow through
wires. You want to dispute the bell curve? Let's have it. I can come
up with hundreds more great examples of the bell curve and its'
applicability to every day life. What have you got to dispute it?
Want to talk about exit polls again?

>
> Finally, one more time, and at least a zillion times now, I

don't

> care if you've won or not. It has nothing to do with the topic at
> hand.

The topic at hand is in fact my record

No, it's not. You WANT to make it your record, and I could care less
as I've said many times. The topic is whether your bogus system can
turn a negative expectation into a positive one. Little Robbie is now
panicing bigtime.

and the fact that it is real
even though you are frustrated no end about not being able to put

it

together mathematically.

The math is easy, your system is a fraud. But then you've seen Reids'
proof so you know it's a fraud. This is what makes YOU a liar and
fraud.

No one cares whether or not you care if I
win or not.

Then you shouldn't have brought it up.

You're the one with a zillion problems to solve in that
neurotic mind of yours. I'm happy getting ready to go out back for

a

swim and a few minutes in the jacuzzi, and then packing for
tomorrow's trip to New Orleans.

You're so predictable. How many subject changes is this now? It must
be real tough knowing you've completely lost this debate. Is that why
you won't post your name?

Other than trying to fix that slide
rule of yours, what's your day like?

If you must know, I had a nice day working outside in near perfect
temperatures. This evening my wife and I went out to a nice
restaurant where I had a great salad, broiled walleye and cheddar
mashed potatoes.

>
> > Better get your facts in order before trying to
> > adjust your words with me, Dicky. And....so-called 'advantage
play'
> > is nothing more than addict hype - by you and the relatively

few

> > others who sell it to other players.
>
> That's exactly what I mean, you just lied one more time. You are
such a loser.

Denial. The true sign of a losing gambler.

Since you know nothing of my gambling results this is simply just
another lie on your part and another example of a mamas' boy who
won't reveal his real name. Your panic increases ...

>
> > All I can see is that you're a wannabee nut in the land of

10,000

> > geeks. Today it's this and tomorrow it's that.
>
> Now, your backing off again with a bunch of nonsense. I made a
> factual statement and you blubber away.

That was so good I'll put it in again. All I can see is that you're

a

wannabee nut in the land of 10,000 geeks. Today it's this and
tomorrow it's that.

More blubbering nonsense.

>
> > >
> Nope, you asked about being a liar and I responded with how you

can

> stop being a called a liar.

You're a little mixed up again.

Not me, panic man.

When YOU call me a liar (which you
keep saying you do and you don't and you do and you don't)

No, I've been very clear. YOU ARE A LIAR.

it not
only tells others that I'm not--

Guess again little Robbie. Your system has been proven invalid and
yet you persist. That makes you a liar and a fraud.

I get to ridicule you here again and
again as you waffle on the issue. I hope your old heart can take

all

this!

When you ridicule anyone without using your real name then you are,
plain and simple, a complete coward. I'm perfectly happy knowing I
have the balls to state exactly what I think about you using my real
name for everyone to see. So, if you ever grow a set please let the
rest of us know. Until then you better take some more of your panic
meds.

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with
> it, honesty has everything to do with it. If you want to put
> something on your website about using a progression just make

sure

to indicate that playing on negative machines using the progression
will not change the overall expectation. There's no doubt a
progession will lead to more session wins. You can put that on your
web site as well. You should, however, warn people that it can also
lead to a few SIGNIFICANT loses.

I choose a more thorough route. I post my actuals.

You're more than welcome to post you own results. If you consider
that proof then you should also post a money back guarantee that
anyone who uses your system will also win and you will cover their
loses. Put your money where your mouth is!

Telling people
about theory means nothing to them.

It clearly means nothing to you.

I explain most of my trips with
any significance so people can decide for themselves.

What about that money back guarantee? Let's see you back up your
claims with real hard cash.

>
> See, here you go again LYING through your teeth without a thread

of

> evidence to back you up. YOU ARE A LIAR AND A FRAUD!

Name a player who won't agree that advantage play is a loser.

I think a couple of them already posted here and you called them
names. Just to go back and reread the last few months posts. But,
then I don't care about any advantage players results either. The
topic is general applicability of your flat earth system vs.
advantage play. So far, your system has failed miserably. It's been
proven invalid yet you continue to babble on and on.

Exclude
yourself because you waffle too much, and your word means nothing
here. Yeah, right. Playing long and often on machines with a
marketing theory attached is a winner. Tell that to all the losers
out there who can't do it. And just what shape is your bell curve?

Like a bell. What is the shape of your balls? Wait, I forgot, you
don't have any.

>
> More LIES. Where's your proof, little Robbie? You have none and

you

> know it! You are such an idiot and a coward. It's obvious why you
> won't use your real name.

So now theory applies to fallible humans?

That's right. No one ever said you needed to play perfectly to be an
advantage player. Let me hear you say real humans can't play
TicTacToe either.

This is where you're so
weak, and why I believe you have little knowledge of applications

in

mathematics. The short term for this is Internet hack.

Where's your supporting evidence? Nowhere. You are such a moron to
even bring up "applications in mathematics". That's exactly what VP
is!

>
> Come on yellow belly, if you're so smart give out your real name.
All you are is a bunch of meaningless words, a coward and worthless
waste of oxygen.

Giving up?

I don't really care if come forward with your name or not, you're the
one who's making a fool out of himself. I just get to sit back here
and chuckle at your stupidity. It's already clear you are a complete
loser, coward and liar. I love it.

>
> Looks to me like you don't know how to prove anything. Wait, you
have proved what a coward you are. That's it. Little mamas' boy

keeps

> trying but the fact is everytime you submit a post without your
real name you keep proving your yellow colors all over again. That
must be the "butt-wipe" example you keep talking about?

Giving up again?

ROTFL.

>
> I believe SOME of what I read and I believe MOST of what I see.
And, if a problem submits itself to mathematical examination (like
VP), then I DO look for a mathematical proof of any claim. That's

why

I know as a FACT that your progressive system is a FRAUD.

You're only an old fool who likes to argue. You don't believe a

thing

unless you can prove it on paper, and you know it. VP has no place

in

your math exam except for the most neurotic of players, those who
fraudulently sell it to others, or wannabees.

How many times have you said this exact same worthless paragraph? You
must think saying it over and over will somehow make it so. Sorry
little Robbie, it doesn't. VP IS completely solved just like the game
of TicTacToe. I suppose you have special plays for TicTacToe too. Or,
double your bet every hand and you will eventually win. I suspect you
think no human could ever play TicTacToe perfectly either?

>
> What is "it" you keep referring to, this mysterious "it". You

never

> define "it". Could "it" be the fact that you are a coward and a
> fraud? Then, you do a real good job of proving "it" every time

you

> post.

It....my Play Strategy McFly.....

Your play strategy has already been proven wrong by Reids' proof, did
you miss that? I thought the many, many times I mentioned Reids'
proof would be enough.

>
> > > Now you're backing down. Must be those panties up around your
> neck. Come on, if you know so much let's have it. Otherwise admit
you were lying once again.
> >
> > I'm looking better by the minute. And you're looking more like

a

weasel by the second.
>
> Little Robbie, the coward, is trying hard to dodge around the

real

> issue, but he is smack in the middle of the target. Must be that
> yellow slime that follows you around has impacted all of your
senses. Provide your real name, mamas boy, or get lost.

You're still giving up?

ROTFL,A. Little Robbie is speechless.

>
> > Yup, and the Gov't. too. We ate computer programmers for a

snack.

>
> Is this an intelligent reply or what? And, you still have no clue
who Dilbert is ... Your FORMER, fellow employees must have
continually had huge laughs about you. Did Scott Adams work for you?

Who's Scott Adams?

He often demonstates your intelligence when he publishes.

>
> The bigot in you is showing. And, if you were an advantage player
you could get in the VIP lines.

Whoopie! VIP lines!!! That way, those of us who like to stare at
losing vp players that think they have some kind of an advantage

over

a casino can see all the fools lined up together! Kind of like
watching the smoking fools grouped together in some airport smoking
areas. Every one of them--idiots. And anyone who doesn't agree that
98% of vp players are low-lifes isn't in touch with reality.

You are the biggest bigot I have ever come across. It must be that
inferiority complex. You generalize everyone into a class and then
ridicule the class. This is trait most often associated with low
intelligence. But then, that's been pretty obvious all along.

>
> One more example of your stupidity. Or, I suspect, another lie.

Oh,

> by the way, the Rio has called me on the phone with several free
> offers. It's called casino marketing.

So Rio called you?? You absolute BRUTE you!! Whoopie! You probably
got sweaty hands just by writing that down--even if it wasn't true.
Imagine all the advantage play that went into such a feat!!!!

Actually, I told them I wasn't interested.

>
> OK, are you up for a test? I'll give you ten hands and you tell

me

> the "best ones" to hold? Oh wait, the "best ones" means something
> entirely different to you. They are whatever little Robbie

decides

to hold. Your so-called "special plays".

How dumb can you be? What's the game? What's the pay table? You're

so

inconsistent that I tingle.

You mean to say the pay table actually means something to you? Since
you always downplay positive games I thought all it took was high
paying quads? But, then I suspected this was another lie since you
refuse to play in AZ where they have plenty of negative games.

>
> Once again, when asked for any supporting evidence you just dodge
the
> question. It's another reason why everyones knows you are the
biggest
> liar and coward around. Come on, little Robbie, you made a
statement,
> now either prove it, admit that you lied, or run back to your

mama

> crying.
>
Let's see you prove that butt-wiping exists pops. In fact, show us
the mathematical difference between the kind of toilet seat that's
larger with an opening up front, and those teeny little circles

that

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

they install in dumps like Fiesta Rancho, Az. Charlie's, El Cortez,-

-

you know, the joints so-called 'advantage' players are reeled into
all the time.

Just admit you lied or provide supporting evidence. Your babble is
showing your level of panic.

> > > Are these the same casino managers
> > > that pulled out all the FPDW above .25 from the casino

floors?

> And,
> > > don't try the BS about increasing profits, because your
statment
> > > above indicated the high paybacks "reeled" us in. Another lie?
> >
> > The high paybacks are from the promotions.
>
> That has nothing to do with what you said.

But YOU said it Einstein. Time for your nap.

When discussing advantage play, little Robbie said "If you want to be
reeled in and soaked dry by playing exactly as any casino manager
wants you to". When I asked about FPDWs being pulled out of all the
casinos, little Robbie the coward, stuttered "The high paybacks are
from the promotions". So, once again you are caught in a lie.

> Is this an example of your best, most intelligent reply? I'd love
to
> talk with the casino manager who said this. Please pass on

his/her

> name. Of course, you can't since this is just another lie. You

know

> as well as I do that casino managers could care less how anyone
looks.

I care, and it's one big reason why I rarely go to some of those
joints. The fact is that FPDW players, for the most part, are weird
looking. Take a look at any bank.

No, the fact is you have been caught in a lie and you are now trying
to buffalo your way out of it. So, why did the casino managers pull
the FPDW machines? And, what is this mystery casino managers name?

>
> Now you're trying to back off, while once again showing what a
bigot
> you are. You know as well as I do that your original statement is
> just another lie perpetrated by you in an attempt to make youself
> look good. Your ego traps you again.

Big surprise. You don't believe me. Now you can add another "liar

and

fraud'

Thanks, I think I will. You are a liar and a fraud.

then 'I didn't say that' to your list of waffles.

No waffling here. You are a liar and a fraud.

>
> Tell you what, I'll meet you at Sams' Town in 2 months and you

can

> introduce me to this casino manager and I can ask him/her

directly.

>
I'll do it, but 10000:1 you're afraid to meet me. So post your pic
here for all to see besides just me.

Right after you post your real name for all to see. Oh, and I'll take
$60 on that 10000:1 bet you just offered. I'll send my $60 to Tom if
you'll do the same with your $600,000 (I believe that's what you've
indicated you've won with your system).

> > > Come on, babykins,
> >
> > What's a babykins? Is that a term in Minnesota?
>
> It's a term for little sissies like you who don't have the balls

to

> use their REAL name when making ridiculous claims. So, just what

is

> your real name, babykins.

For some reason, I just got a woody when you said that. Are you

sure

your daughter or wife didn't write it?

ROTFL. I love it when you panic.

>
> You don't have clue what "general applicability" means, do you?

You

> couldn't have shown your immense studipity any better than you

did

in your response.

Jealous, aren't you once again.

All I can say is "Perfect". I can't believe you didn't entirely snip
this "perfect" example of your stupidity.

#164

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>

wrote:

> Sounds pretty familar. Could this be another little sissy hiding
> behind a false name, or is this the original, #1 coward? Only

time

> will tell.

Sissies & cowards. Liars & frauds. When you have a pointless
argument, I guess you ramble. Especially when you're old, you reek

of

envy, and are of no added value any longer. Good skill!

Now, is this bonuspokergod or deadin7? Or both? And what are your
real name/s?

Actually, my name is really George W. Bush. I've been down in the
dumps lately with all the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to
mention, I have to do everything I can to keep my energy buddies
happy. Where else would I get those great campaign contributions? In
addition, I just can't seem to produce enough good new jobs so I can
get re-elected. So, there I was, surfing the net and I came across
some posts by this Rob Singer character. I couldn't believe it. I'd
found someone who was even dumber than me. I really want to thank
that little darling for making me look so smart. I've got renewed
hope ... Now, if only I could find those WMDs ...

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

#165

dumps lately with all the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to
mention, I have to do everything I can to keep my energy buddies
happy. Where else would I get those great campaign contributions? In
addition, I just can't seem to produce enough good new jobs so I can
get re-elected. So, there I was, surfing the net and I came across
some posts by this Rob Singer character. I couldn't believe it. I'd
found someone who was even dumber than me. I really want to thank
that little darling for making me look so smart. I've got renewed
hope ... Now, if only I could find those WMDs ...

First of all it is President Bush. Even if you don't like the man
show some respect for the office.
Secondly he is a graduate of Harvard and a jet pilot. Neither of
these accomplishments can be bought or are given to an idiot. What
are your credentials? You're either ignorant of the facts or you get
all your information spoon fed to you by the left-wing main stream
press.
That being said back to the subject.
I began in January playing VP on a Hoyles Casino game I had bought.It
had a very basic strategy tutor.I practiced for a few weeks to learn
the basics and run a few dollars in the games at the casino in
between playing slots. I didn't do to bad. Break even, win a few
bucks, lose a little. I won a few hundred dollars on a DDB one night
with four aces and decided to research the game. I bought books,
looked on the internet, and ordered FVP and Winpoker. I found that
the machines I was doing OK on were machines I shouldn't be playing.
I was playing 7/5 DDB, 9/6 DB and Bonus Deuces at 95.5%. I found 8/5
and 7/5 Bonus and began playing these since they were the best the
Indian Casino had to offer.
I practiced on my computer brought my little strategy cards with me
and set off to make some serious money that the pros told me would be
there with perfect play. The problem was that the more penalty cards
I memorized the faster my bankroll went down. I began to lurk on VP
forums and found that most of these people that talk of EV.ROR,
variance, advantage and long term strategy don't make squat playing
VP.
I came across Rob Singers website off of this forum. I went in to
take a look but really didn't pay much attention to his articles. I
was determined that perfect play was the way to go. Even though the
98% BP was taking 100% of my money I plugged on. Finally one night
after losing $100 in about 45 minutes I switched over to the low pay
Bonus deuces. my first draw gave me nothing but an ace. Thinking I
was still in BP I held it. Up came two more aces along with two
deuces. My $100 back on a mistake that im' sure every VP purist could
quote my loss in coins from memory for such a dumb move. A light went
off in my head. This is gambling. It's a game of chance. It's not a
science. You do have to have knowledge and play smart but, it's still
gambling and sometimes taking a chance pays off. I kept playing
perfect strategy to a point certain hands I would gamble on. I never
break up A-10 suited. I keep Aces with two unsuited high cards. I
keep all two to the royal no matter how many penalty cards I have,
and I never ever draw to a inside unsuited straight.
Since starting this in May I have had 4 Royals, 4 Aces with a kicker
3 times, 4 wild deuces four times plus numeruos nights going to the
cashier with over $600 in vouchers. All this playing one night a week
never wagering over $300, and all on machines less than 96%. This
isn't to say that I don't have losing nights. We all have those.
During this time I also began reading Robs articles. I must admit his
secret plays seemed a little to much for my nerves. I began trying
his theory on winpoker and FVP. At first I really couldn't see a
difference. Then I began trying his plays such as breaking a full
house if it had 3 aces. I also did this at certain times with 2,3,4
in bonus games. This seems to be the trick. After doing this for
about 2 months of on and off sessions on both Winpoker and FVP my
winning rate was around 90%. Friday I decided to give it a try at the
casino using his denomination progression. Having a few more dollars
in my bankroll from weening myself from perfect perfect play I
decided to start on quarters and go up to dollar machines and give it
a try. Having a few cash outs on the quarters I finally had to move
up to the .50 machines. I went through 100 credits on BP without
really doing anything. I switched to DDB (7/5) and about 15 minutes
later was dealt a full house three aces two kings. On FVP it was much
easier to make the desicion. I stared at it for about 15 seconds
debating then tossed the kings. Up came the other ace and brought a 3
with it. Over came the attendant, into my pocket went $1000, and home
I went. I went back today, twice in one week, something rare , and
decided to try it again same denominations. I did absolutley nothing
on the quarters. I moved up to .50 on my fourth draw I was dealt AKQ
of clubs Q of hearts along with the Q of diamonds. I kept the clubs
and caught the royal for $2000 and my first WG2. Now I know Rob says
you must leave. This is where I wavered a little. They had just put
in nickel strike it poker with payscales that someone on one of these
forums called OK for the "recreational" player. After about 20
minutes of play I caught a quad 3s on the fourth line. I cashed out
$190 on a nickel machine. Since I had to go back downstairs to cash
the voucher my wife and I decided to stop at Morries in the casino
and have Surf and Turf courtesy of the casino players card. (all the
comp points from running all those coins through the machine in
perfect play).
Thanks Rob for the tips on your website!
Now you can call me a liar like you do Rob on this forum. The only
thing that will bother me about that is that you won't be able to see
the smirk on my face when i read it.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

--Actually, my name is really George W. Bush. I've been down in the

#166

Let me just barge in here and comment on one of your holds. You said
you hold AT suited. Didn't you get WinPoker? Let's take the Jacks or
Better game. If you go to Analyze and then put hand, you will see
there that you can examine any hand you feed. If you feed AT suited
and then some low cards of different suits, you will see that holding
just the Ace is worth 2.3201, and holding the Ace with the T is worth
2.3028. The numbers are dollars if you play full coin on a dollar
machine. Thus, by holding AT you are giving up in that hold, long
term, 0.0173 dollars, which is almost two pennies. Haven't you seen
that musical -I forgot the name- where they sing a song that goes
something like "a penny here, a penny there, can make me a multi
millonaire"? If you believe in the benefits of the long term -and
believe me, the long term is long- then after years or decades of
playing VP, you might have gotten...well it is too early to estimate
how many with coffee, but you might have gotten a big bunch of hands
with AT and small unsuited cards, maybe thousands, and by not holding
just the A, you will be giving up, I don't know, enough to tip the
cocktail waitress for two weeks maybe. Why would you give that up?

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>

wrote:

> --Actually, my name is really George W. Bush. I've been down in

the

dumps lately with all the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to
mention, I have to do everything I can to keep my energy buddies
happy. Where else would I get those great campaign contributions? In
addition, I just can't seem to produce enough good new jobs so I can
get re-elected. So, there I was, surfing the net and I came across
some posts by this Rob Singer character. I couldn't believe it. I'd
found someone who was even dumber than me. I really want to thank
that little darling for making me look so smart. I've got renewed
hope ... Now, if only I could find those WMDs ...

First of all it is President Bush. Even if you don't like the man
show some respect for the office.
Secondly he is a graduate of Harvard and a jet pilot. Neither of
these accomplishments can be bought or are given to an idiot. What
are your credentials? You're either ignorant of the facts or you

get

all your information spoon fed to you by the left-wing main stream
press.
That being said back to the subject.
I began in January playing VP on a Hoyles Casino game I had

bought.It

had a very basic strategy tutor.I practiced for a few weeks to

learn

the basics and run a few dollars in the games at the casino in
between playing slots. I didn't do to bad. Break even, win a few
bucks, lose a little. I won a few hundred dollars on a DDB one

night

with four aces and decided to research the game. I bought books,
looked on the internet, and ordered FVP and Winpoker. I found that
the machines I was doing OK on were machines I shouldn't be playing.
I was playing 7/5 DDB, 9/6 DB and Bonus Deuces at 95.5%. I found

8/5

and 7/5 Bonus and began playing these since they were the best the
Indian Casino had to offer.
I practiced on my computer brought my little strategy cards with me
and set off to make some serious money that the pros told me would

be

there with perfect play. The problem was that the more penalty

cards

I memorized the faster my bankroll went down. I began to lurk on VP
forums and found that most of these people that talk of EV.ROR,
variance, advantage and long term strategy don't make squat playing
VP.
I came across Rob Singers website off of this forum. I went in to
take a look but really didn't pay much attention to his articles. I
was determined that perfect play was the way to go. Even though the
98% BP was taking 100% of my money I plugged on. Finally one night
after losing $100 in about 45 minutes I switched over to the low

pay

Bonus deuces. my first draw gave me nothing but an ace. Thinking I
was still in BP I held it. Up came two more aces along with two
deuces. My $100 back on a mistake that im' sure every VP purist

could

quote my loss in coins from memory for such a dumb move. A light

went

off in my head. This is gambling. It's a game of chance. It's not a
science. You do have to have knowledge and play smart but, it's

still

gambling and sometimes taking a chance pays off. I kept playing
perfect strategy to a point certain hands I would gamble on. I

never

break up A-10 suited. I keep Aces with two unsuited high cards. I
keep all two to the royal no matter how many penalty cards I have,
and I never ever draw to a inside unsuited straight.
Since starting this in May I have had 4 Royals, 4 Aces with a

kicker

3 times, 4 wild deuces four times plus numeruos nights going to the
cashier with over $600 in vouchers. All this playing one night a

week

never wagering over $300, and all on machines less than 96%. This
isn't to say that I don't have losing nights. We all have those.
During this time I also began reading Robs articles. I must admit

his

secret plays seemed a little to much for my nerves. I began trying
his theory on winpoker and FVP. At first I really couldn't see a
difference. Then I began trying his plays such as breaking a full
house if it had 3 aces. I also did this at certain times with 2,3,4
in bonus games. This seems to be the trick. After doing this for
about 2 months of on and off sessions on both Winpoker and FVP my
winning rate was around 90%. Friday I decided to give it a try at

the

casino using his denomination progression. Having a few more

dollars

in my bankroll from weening myself from perfect perfect play I
decided to start on quarters and go up to dollar machines and give

it

a try. Having a few cash outs on the quarters I finally had to move
up to the .50 machines. I went through 100 credits on BP without
really doing anything. I switched to DDB (7/5) and about 15 minutes
later was dealt a full house three aces two kings. On FVP it was

much

easier to make the desicion. I stared at it for about 15 seconds
debating then tossed the kings. Up came the other ace and brought a

3

with it. Over came the attendant, into my pocket went $1000, and

home

I went. I went back today, twice in one week, something rare , and
decided to try it again same denominations. I did absolutley

nothing

on the quarters. I moved up to .50 on my fourth draw I was dealt

AKQ

of clubs Q of hearts along with the Q of diamonds. I kept the clubs
and caught the royal for $2000 and my first WG2. Now I know Rob

says

you must leave. This is where I wavered a little. They had just put
in nickel strike it poker with payscales that someone on one of

these

forums called OK for the "recreational" player. After about 20
minutes of play I caught a quad 3s on the fourth line. I cashed out
$190 on a nickel machine. Since I had to go back downstairs to cash
the voucher my wife and I decided to stop at Morries in the casino
and have Surf and Turf courtesy of the casino players card. (all

the

comp points from running all those coins through the machine in
perfect play).
Thanks Rob for the tips on your website!
Now you can call me a liar like you do Rob on this forum. The only
thing that will bother me about that is that you won't be able to

see

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomghysel" <tomghysel@y...> wrote:

the smirk on my face when i read it.

#167

I began in January playing VP on a Hoyles Casino game I had

bought.It

had a very basic strategy tutor.I practiced for a few weeks to

learn

the basics and run a few dollars in the games at the casino in
between playing slots. I didn't do to bad. Break even, win a few
bucks, lose a little. I won a few hundred dollars on a DDB one

night

with four aces and decided to research the game. I bought books,
looked on the internet, and ordered FVP and Winpoker. I found that
the machines I was doing OK on were machines I shouldn't be playing.
I was playing 7/5 DDB, 9/6 DB and Bonus Deuces at 95.5%. I found

8/5

and 7/5 Bonus and began playing these since they were the best the
Indian Casino had to offer.
I practiced on my computer brought my little strategy cards with me
and set off to make some serious money that the pros told me would

be

there with perfect play.

No pro would ever tell you that you could make "serious money"
playing NEGATIVE machines. Since that appears to be all you play what
did you expect?

As for playing Rob's system, just remember what I've said many times.
You will have more short term successes and a few larger losses.

Good luck.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomghysel" <tomghysel@y...> wrote:

#168

Dick, do you HONESTLY believe that any casino anywhere offers any
game that will allow people to hammer on it for hours on end and
make consistent money on it?

If such a practice were possible, then please explain why Bob Dancer
& Jean Scott have to sell crap to make a living then?

THEN, please explain why CASINOS PAY THEM MONEY to hold seminars on
CASINO PROPERTY?

Do you actually believe that a 5 coin difference for a full-house
actually means anything if you never hit the full house?? Hahahaha!

No pro would ever tell you that you could make "serious money"
playing NEGATIVE machines. Since that appears to be all you play

what

···

did you expect?

#169

playing NEGATIVE machines. Since that appears to be all you play what
did you expect?

As for playing Rob's system, just remember what I've said many times.
You will have more short term successes and a few larger losses.

Good luck.

Dick

You make the point of why your system is flawed.
Let's use BP as an example. Let's say I find a 9/5 BP. I don't know
if there is such an animal but for the sake of discussion it will
work.
This becomes a 100.3% positive machine. Again using your mAth let's
assume in a two hour session I get ten full houses, which is probably
a little high on a 7/5 BP. I run $200 through this machine and win
nothing, which is quite easy to do. By going to the 9/5 BP I would
only have lost $175 dollars or to be more realistic I could have
played for another fifteen minutes on the full pay BP before blowing
the whole $200.
This is what you consider "advantage" play. I would call it stupidity.

Let's take another example using your static math theory. You go to
the casino and sit down to play your positive machine. The guy
playing it before hit the royal ten minutes before you got there.
Using your static math projections that royal isn't going to show up
for another forty thousand hands or so. I doubt you can play this
long so in essence your full pay machine is now negative because of
the two percent you lose on the royal.
We both know that the royal can show up anytime and Ive heard of
people catching it twice within hours on the same machine. We can
also assume that it might not show up on a certain machine for years
if ever. We also know that in any session we could get 30 full houses
or none at all. The point is that the guy sitting next to you playing
6/5 JOB and gets fifteen full house in a session and you get two on
your full pay. Who had the advantage?
Don't get me wrong, I believe in math and the law of averages. I
believe if I had a VP machine in my home and I was the only one
playing it over the years it would probably average out to what it
should. I don't believe anyone has the time or the money to prove the
theory in a casino.
What we do know is that people win and people lose using all
different theories Lady luck doesn't always play by the rules.
From reading these VP forums I can't see where your strategy is all
it's cracked up to be. I've read of alot of advantage players taking
a beating.
Just one more thing. Most of my losses came on 8/5 BP. I only played
the 7/5 when I had to. I started winning again when I went back to
the negative, high volativity games.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

No pro would ever tell you that you could make "serious money"

#170

I drove to New Orleans from Atlanta this weekend for the sole
purpose of meeting up with Rob in person and going over some of his
plays, since he was kind enough to take some time out of his very
short weekend trip to the big easy. We had planned to meet last
time I was in Vegas but schedules got changed.

We met up at 10:30pm Saturday, chatted for about 2.5 hours, I played
a short dollar session at Harrah's and Rob gave me some tips on what
to hold, etc. etc. After a short time with him, I feel much more
prepared on how to approach this game, how to handle winning &
losing, how to set goals, etc. Something I never got from Dancer's
books or cards.

If you can work out the schedules, I highly recommend meeting up
with Rob in person. A truly nice down to earth guy and gee, not
once did he hit me up for money for his time or try to sell me some
useless crap like strategy cards and mind-numbing 150 page "Winners
Guides".

Lose the cards, throw away the software, and break-free of the long-
term mindset. The sooner the better.

-Tom

Thanks Rob for the tips on your website!
Now you can call me a liar like you do Rob on this forum. The only
thing that will bother me about that is that you won't be able to

see

···

the smirk on my face when i read it.

#171

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "superquadfullhousroyalistic"
<erchalb@c...> wrote:

Let me just barge in here and comment on one of your holds. You

said

you hold AT suited. Didn't you get WinPoker? Let's take the Jacks

or

Better game. If you go to Analyze and then put hand, you will see
there that you can examine any hand you feed. If you feed AT suited
and then some low cards of different suits, you will see that

holding

just the Ace is worth 2.3201, and holding the Ace with the T is

worth

2.3028. The numbers are dollars if you play full coin on a dollar
machine. Thus, by holding AT you are giving up in that hold, long
term, 0.0173 dollars, which is almost two pennies. Haven't you seen
that musical -I forgot the name- where they sing a song that goes
something like "a penny here, a penny there, can make me a multi
millonaire"? If you believe in the benefits of the long term -and
believe me, the long term is long- then after years or decades of
playing VP, you might have gotten...well it is too early to

estimate

how many with coffee, but you might have gotten a big bunch of

hands

with AT and small unsuited cards, maybe thousands, and by not

holding

just the A, you will be giving up, I don't know, enough to tip the
cocktail waitress for two weeks maybe. Why would you give that up?

I assume you're being sarcastic. It's hard to tell on these forums
when you can't see the person or hear his voice.
I usually play quarters so my loss is even less than what you post.
I have had one royal holding an A-T. I don't think I'll live long
enough to make that much money on hands by only holding the ace...

#172

Yep, that same bell curve that causes electricity to flow through
wires. You want to dispute the bell curve? Let's have it. I can

come up with hundreds more great examples of the bell curve and its'

applicability to every day life. What have you got to dispute it?
Want to talk about exit polls again?

The bell curve is only a crutch for your endless theories about how
you dream video poker should be played by yourself. It's no different
than the theory Scott, Hughes, Wong, Dancer and Paymar dangle in
front of weak players in order to take money from them. That scam is
why I'm here, and my progress is what bothers you no end.

> > Finally, one more time, and at least a zillion times now, I
don't care if you've won or not. It has nothing to do with the

topic at hand.

Talk about lying....You're big problem here is that I win when you
cannot -- how I actually play the game and win when you only do so on
paper while you lose in the casinos. It bothers you that you have to
scrape together dollars from whatever means possible and only make a
few trips a year to Nv., when I own the place.

>
> The topic at hand is in fact my record

No, it's not. You WANT to make it your record, and I could care

less as I've said many times. The topic is whether your bogus system
can turn a negative expectation into a positive one. Little Robbie is
now panicing bigtime.

What bothers you is that my system HAS turned it into a positive
expectation as proven by me with piles of historical data. But you
can't duplicate it on paper, and you get the hives whenever you
attempt to do so.

> No one cares whether or not you care if I
> win or not.

Then you shouldn't have brought it up.

Now you're a crybaby. Your #1 care in this world is about me and how
I do what I do. But it really isn't all that bad for you, because it
gives an old man reason to live.

> You're the one with a zillion problems to solve in that
> neurotic mind of yours. I'm happy getting ready to go out back

for a swim and a few minutes in the jacuzzi, and then packing for
tomorrow's trip to New Orleans.

You're so predictable. How many subject changes is this now? It

must be real tough knowing you've completely lost this debate. Is
that why you won't post your name?

It's nice seeing how jealous you are of me once again. Keep it coming.

If you must know, I had a nice day working outside in near perfect
temperatures. This evening my wife and I went out to a nice
restaurant where I had a great salad, broiled walleye and cheddar
mashed potatoes.

I can whip that stuff up with one hand tied behind my back. Hold the
cheese though. Goes straight to your blubber.

Since you know nothing of my gambling results this is simply just
another lie on your part and another example of a mamas' boy who
won't reveal his real name. Your panic increases ...

Um, I believe you blab that you've got the game beaten because you
play the way the gurus tell you to (and the fact that you've also
bought all their junk so you're obligated to say that). I've simply
interpreted your drivel.

> That was so good I'll put it in again. All I can see is that

you're a wannabee nut in the land of 10,000 geeks. Today it's this
and tomorrow it's that.

Guess again little Robbie. Your system has been proven invalid and
yet you persist. That makes you a liar and a fraud.

Proven invalid by whom? Anyone contact me for my results and
historical review? Don't start with what's supposed to happen on
paper again. That makes you look increasingly stupid.

When you ridicule anyone without using your real name then you are,
plain and simple, a complete coward. I'm perfectly happy knowing I
have the balls to state exactly what I think about you using my

real name for everyone to see. So, if you ever grow a set please let
the rest of us know. Until then you better take some more of your
panic meds.

Like you're a big cheese for criticizing me on the Internet! Gee, how
it hurts. For what i make with vp, I'll take it a million times over.
Keep it coming, Minnesota Fats!! I told you to hold the cheese....

You're more than welcome to post you own results. If you consider
that proof then you should also post a money back guarantee that
anyone who uses your system will also win and you will cover their
loses. Put your money where your mouth is!

I'll tell you what. Get Paymar, Dancer, or any other quack to do it
retro-actively on their system (one that you swear by) and I'll do
the same. That's a tough one Dicky, so take your time.

> Name a player who won't agree that advantage play is a loser.

I think a couple of them already posted here and you called them
names. Just to go back and reread the last few months posts. But,
then I don't care about any advantage players results either. The
topic is general applicability of your flat earth system vs.
advantage play. So far, your system has failed miserably. It's been
proven invalid yet you continue to babble on and on.

I said name a player, not to tell me to read something. You can't
even follow directions, which proves you're lazy to go with being a
fool.

That's right. No one ever said you needed to play perfectly to be

an advantage player. Let me hear you say real humans can't play

TicTacToe either.

That's the standard response whenever I challenge the big heads on
this one. In articles they say you have to play perfectly if you want
to win. When I come along they waffle to "near-perfectly" and when
people say they can't win they say "but gee, you didn't practice
enough". Now you play follow-the-leader. It's so dumb it a laugh-and-
a-half!

Where's your supporting evidence? Nowhere. You are such a moron to
even bring up "applications in mathematics". That's exactly what VP
is!

HAHA! That's exactly what you WISH it were. It's a game, dummy.

That must be the "butt-wipe" example you keep talking about?

Speaking of that, are you ever going to try for an answer? Or has the
moose got your tongue on that one??

>

ROTFL.

What does that mean?

> You're only an old fool who likes to argue. You don't believe a

thing unless you can prove it on paper, and you know it. VP has no

place in your math exam except for the most neurotic of players,
those who fraudulently sell it to others, or wannabees.

This is sooo good I'll leave it in one more time! Your response
included some old man nonsense about tictacdo. You still play that?

Your play strategy has already been proven wrong by Reids' proof,

did you miss that? I thought the many, many times I mentioned Reids'

proof would be enough.

Reid who---and did he review my strategies?

> >
> > > Yup, and the Gov't. too. We ate computer programmers for a
snack.Is this an intelligent reply or what? And, you still have no

clue who Dilbert is ... Your FORMER, fellow employees must have
continually had huge laughs about you. Did Scott Adams work for you?

In large organizations (private or Gov't.) the geekish programmers
(aka 'computer fairies) were the laughing stock of the joints.

>
> Who's Scott Adams? He often demonstates your intelligence when he

publishes.

No, once again "WHO is Scott Adams....not WHAT does he do? Now you
see why programmers were always walked all over. They tried to duck
questions but always got caught.

> >
> > The bigot in you is showing. And, if you were an advantage

player you could get in the VIP lines.

So-called 'advantage players' are, on the whole, a low-class bunch
who try to follow other people's fabricated on-paper dreams inside
casinos. Next time you're in one of your revered locals joints in LV,
wait before you rush to sit and play and take a good look around. Not
only are the theoretically >100% machines being played by such a
pathetic-looking bunch of life's leftovers--most of them ARE! And the
VIP lines? All those are for is the bigger losers and addicts, who
like to brag to others about all the 'free stuff' they got from
everywhere they play. Common sense says it all.

>
You are the biggest bigot I have ever come across. It must be that
inferiority complex. You generalize everyone into a class and then
ridicule the class. This is trait most often associated with low
intelligence. But then, that's been pretty obvious all along.

Read my lips Dicky. LV has, proportionately, more social problems
than any other place on earth. Locals make that up if it somehow
passed you by. Smoking, drinking, overeating, drinking too much--and
video poker all go hand-in-hand. How many fat-asses do you see
smoking and playing vp? Check it out. No self-respect for themselves
equates to no discipline at the machines. You disagree? Then you're
the same fool who can't figure anything else out here.

Actually, I told them I wasn't interested.

You brute you. I guess you told them.

You mean to say the pay table actually means something to you?

That's an inconsistent statement from someone who reads my columns
regularly.

> Let's see you prove that butt-wiping exists pops. In fact, show

us

> the mathematical difference between the kind of toilet seat

that's

> larger with an opening up front, and those teeny little circles
that
> they install in dumps like Fiesta Rancho, Az. Charlie's, El

Cortez,-

-
> you know, the joints so-called 'advantage' players are reeled

into

> all the time.

Just admit you lied or provide supporting evidence. Your babble is
showing your level of panic.

Oops! Guess you can't.

When discussing advantage play, little Robbie said "If you want to

be reeled in and soaked dry by playing exactly as any casino manager

wants you to". When I asked about FPDWs being pulled out of all the
casinos, little Robbie the coward, stuttered "The high paybacks are
from the promotions". So, once again you are caught in a lie.

Huh?? You're being a kook again. You're precious >100% paybacks ARE
mostly from promotions today and not the pay tables. Are you here?
Hello!

You know as well as I do that casino managers could care less how
anyone looks.

Yeah they do. The weider, the stupider--the better. They love to see
fat-asses plop into the chairs, and they love fat women even better.
And those who smoke make their day. Not to mention the incessant
drinking habits of most of them.

>

And, what is this mystery casino managers name?

I'll tell you what. Since you can't seem to figure out who's who,
i'll let your Tums do the work as you get anxiety attacks over names.
You're a self-proclaimed smart guy Dick, so let's see that in-action
for a change.

> > Tell you what, I'll meet you at Sams' Town in 2 months and you
can introduce me to this casino manager and I can ask him/her
directly.

Hey dufus--Sam's Town still HAS the machines!

> >
Right after you post your real name for all to see. Oh, and I'll

take $60 on that 10000:1 bet you just offered. I'll send my $60 to
Tom if you'll do the same with your $600,000 (I believe that's what
you've indicated you've won with your system).

Is $60 ALL you can afford while feeling invincible? Here's a hint:
You don't have much money, and you'll lose that bet.

> For some reason, I just got a woody when you said that. Are you
sure your daughter or wife didn't write it?

ROTFL. I love it when you panic.

Yeah, but how does your wife feel about it........??

All I can say is "Perfect". I can't believe you didn't entirely

snip this "perfect" example of your stupidity.

Now don't be changing the subject again. I can't feel the love
from 'love it".

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

#173

Now, is this bonuspokergod or deadin7? Or both? And what are your
real name/s?

What's the difference mean to you? You are unable to prove or
disprove anything and are good at copying and quoting perfect-world
theory. A life of fantasy.....

Presidential baloney now. When you've got money you don't care about
that stuff. When you don't you do.

Actually, my name is really George W. Bush. I've been down in the
dumps lately with all the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to
mention, I have to do everything I can to keep my energy buddies
happy. Where else would I get those great campaign contributions?

In

addition, I just can't seem to produce enough good new jobs so I

can

···

get re-elected. So, there I was, surfing the net and I came across
some posts by this Rob Singer character. I couldn't believe it. I'd
found someone who was even dumber than me. I really want to thank
that little darling for making me look so smart. I've got renewed
hope ... Now, if only I could find those WMDs ...

#174

As for playing Rob's system, just remember what I've said many

times. You will have more short term successes and a few larger
losses.

Good luck.
Dick

Isn't this a statement to behold. This geek can only see a bundle of
smaller wins followed by some theoretical devastating loss--while
curiously disregarding the fact that far more huge winners will
appear along the way that render the large loss here and there
insignificant. This is a typical reply from a nobody who wants to be
somebody. His theory apparently says that the large loss will come,
the smaller wins will come, but nowhere will the larger wins ever be
realized. Hmmmm.... See what I mean about how this mutated computer
fairy thinks?

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

#175

Well, I try take these amusing discussions about a game, Video Poker,
with humor, but not making fun of anyone.

If you want me to talk seriously, I'll tell you that when I see a
machine and a paytable and I have no reason to suspect monkey
business from anyone, then perfect strategy seems to be the only
guide on how to play the machine. But one must look behind perfect
strategy, and your post motivated me to reconsider A T suited in
Jacks or Better. By dumping the T I deny myself the probability of a
Royal, and I do that for pennies in the intermediate term. It seems a
tad absurd. I don't know if from now on I will keep A T suited while
playing all forms of Jacks or Better in casinos, but I certainly will
do it sometimes. When will I do it? Well, I also believe that
machines sometimes seem to be alive, alert and hitting. Have you ever
had one of those machines that seem to work on a Bloody Mary with
jalapeño garnish? Hot, hot, hot. If you haven't experienced this, you
will. On those occasions, if the credits are going up and the machine
feels pregnant, ready to deliver a baby, I will be no fool to dump
the ten when I get the A T suited. So from now on, this will be a
combination where I might hold the A T or just the A, depending. I
like having that freedom of decision. Now, I must say that on other
machines, such as Triple Double Bonus I might never hold A T. Well,
that is a bad example since I think holding just the Ace is the
correct thing to do there, unless you have a kicker, and ten is never
a kicker. But you know what I mean, in games where quad aces pay
nicely nicely, thank you, I might be very, very reluctant to keep the
ten. It is not that the Ace long term is worth maybe more than a
nickel rather than less than a penny, as in JB -as you say, I should
live so long as the long term- but the consideration will be what
hands I'm blocking by doing what. Keeping A T in JB you are not
blocking quad Aces, though you make that quad a little tougher. I
have heard of people hitting Royals while keeping A T and I must say,
it must be a lot of fun, much more than getting a Royal after holding
four to a Royal. I think just the fun of it might make it worth it.
Hope I do hit one this year or next that way. Good luck!

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomghysel" <tomghysel@y...> wrote:

I assume you're being sarcastic. It's hard to tell on these forums
when you can't see the person or hear his voice.
I usually play quarters so my loss is even less than what you post.
I have had one royal holding an A-T. I don't think I'll live long
enough to make that much money on hands by only holding the ace...

#176

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "superquadfullhousroyalistic"
<erchalb@c...> wrote:
Have you ever had one of those machines that seem to work on a
Bloody Mary with jalapeño garnish? Hot, hot, hot. If you haven't
experienced this, you will. On those occasions, if the credits are
going up and the machine feels pregnant, ready to deliver a baby, I
will be no fool to dump the ten when I get the A T suited. So from
now on, this will be a combination where I might hold the A T or just
the A, depending.

--JB is a game I rarely play since it offers very little in the way
of making a consistent profit. But because the RF (& SF) are
basically the ONLY 2 hands capable of making any difference during
any session, the only proper way to play a suited AT is to hold both
every time. While some math professor might squawk that
you're 'losing' 2c or whatever every time you make that play, weigh
that nonsense against the possibility of getting a royal. And quad
Aces in JB? That's almost as much an insult as getting them in FPDW.

The comment on the hot machine is an interesting one. In an article I
wrote a few months ago, I disclosed inside info from a SW engineer at
one of the major industry machine manufacturers--and a friend--about
how all their newer machines in the past approx. 4 years were indeed
programmed to run in some hot, but mostly cold cycles. The machine's
randomness, while never absolute on any machine ever anyway, is
administratively maintained within those cycles. The multi-
denom's./multi-game machines incorporate completely different cycles
for each game-type and/or denomination you choose, so if you are not
having good results on 50c BP for instance, when you change to $1 DDB
or 25c DW for instance, you face a new cycle that just may be in the
hot zone. I wrote that this may well be a reason my play results are
much better than anyone else's, because I already routinely change
games and denominations within my Play Strategies. My article drew
responses/comments from the Nv. Gaming Commission as well as an
industry vp machine manufacturer VP--among MANY others. The bottom
line was that they both 'requested' I not write any more about this
in GT, and I agreed. But NEITHER would deny my point made. One said
he couldn't comment, and the other would not respond despite 3
attempts and 2 phone calls to get him/her to do so.

#177

--JB is a game I rarely play since it offers very little in the way
of making a consistent profit. But because the RF (& SF) are
basically the ONLY 2 hands capable of making any difference during
any session, the only proper way to play a suited AT is to hold

both

every time. While some math professor might squawk that
you're 'losing' 2c or whatever every time you make that play, weigh
that nonsense against the possibility of getting a royal. And quad
Aces in JB? That's almost as much an insult as getting them in FPDW.

The comment on the hot machine is an interesting one. In an article

I

wrote a few months ago, I disclosed inside info from a SW engineer

at

one of the major industry machine manufacturers--and a friend--

about

how all their newer machines in the past approx. 4 years were

indeed

programmed to run in some hot, but mostly cold cycles. The

machine's

randomness, while never absolute on any machine ever anyway, is
administratively maintained within those cycles. The multi-
denom's./multi-game machines incorporate completely different

cycles

for each game-type and/or denomination you choose, so if you are

not

having good results on 50c BP for instance, when you change to $1

DDB

or 25c DW for instance, you face a new cycle that just may be in

the

hot zone. I wrote that this may well be a reason my play results

are

much better than anyone else's, because I already routinely change
games and denominations within my Play Strategies. My article drew
responses/comments from the Nv. Gaming Commission as well as an
industry vp machine manufacturer VP--among MANY others. The bottom
line was that they both 'requested' I not write any more about this
in GT, and I agreed. But NEITHER would deny my point made. One said
he couldn't comment, and the other would not respond despite 3
attempts and 2 phone calls to get him/her to do so.

I has been my experience that the subject of VP streaks is taboo in
many places, but I never understood why. To come to the defense of an
old game, I must say that JB does not only have Royals and Straight
Flushes to recommend it. Get one of those JB machines on a really hot
streak and you can end up cashing out the equivalent of a Royal or
more, and it does not matter if the machine is "short pay". Now, it
is also true that a DDB on a quad jalapeño hot streak is much more
fun.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deadin7" <deadin7@y...> wrote:

#178

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>

wrote:

> No pro would ever tell you that you could make "serious money"
playing NEGATIVE machines. Since that appears to be all you play

what

did you expect?

As for playing Rob's system, just remember what I've said many

times.

You will have more short term successes and a few larger losses.

Good luck.

Dick

You make the point of why your system is flawed.
Let's use BP as an example. Let's say I find a 9/5 BP. I don't know
if there is such an animal but for the sake of discussion it will
work.
This becomes a 100.3% positive machine. Again using your mAth let's
assume in a two hour session I get ten full houses, which is

probably

a little high on a 7/5 BP. I run $200 through this machine and win
nothing, which is quite easy to do. By going to the 9/5 BP I would
only have lost $175 dollars or to be more realistic I could have
played for another fifteen minutes on the full pay BP before

blowing

the whole $200.
This is what you consider "advantage" play. I would call it

stupidity.

You can call it what you want, but you could have a Royal or quad
aces playing the extra $25.

I suspect the next time your boss asks you if you want a raise you'll
turn him down. Same logic!

Let's take another example using your static math theory. You go to
the casino and sit down to play your positive machine. The guy
playing it before hit the royal ten minutes before you got there.
Using your static math projections that royal isn't going to show

up

for another forty thousand hands or so.

And whose "static math projections" are these? Not mine. Before
making future comments please try to get your facts straight.

I doubt you can play this
long so in essence your full pay machine is now negative because of
the two percent you lose on the royal.
We both know that the royal can show up anytime and Ive heard of
people catching it twice within hours on the same machine.

Which I have also done. So, why'd you even bring this up?

We can
also assume that it might not show up on a certain machine for

years

if ever. We also know that in any session we could get 30 full

houses

or none at all. The point is that the guy sitting next to you

playing

6/5 JOB and gets fifteen full house in a session and you get two on
your full pay. Who had the advantage?

And, the next time you get his luck and he gets yours. Now, who's
ahead?

If you require IMMEDIATE gratification then by all means play anyway
you want. However, your logic doesn't make one bit of sense. Anyone
can get "lucky" in the short term. What else would you call a lottery
winner? No optimal play supporter would EVER deny this. The
difference is that over time, you'll get better results using expert
play strategies playing the best machines you can find.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in math and the law of averages. I
believe if I had a VP machine in my home and I was the only one
playing it over the years it would probably average out to what it
should. I don't believe anyone has the time or the money to prove

the

theory in a casino.

Why not? Because you don't want to?

If you understand the law of averages as you state, then you should
know you are just as likely to get results above the average as below
the average. Why would you play any strategy that reduces that
average?

Keep in mind, expert play is has nothing to do with luck. You make it
sound like playing expert strategy on the best machines will reduce
your short term winnings. It won't. You can get just as lucky on high
paying machine as on a low paying machine.

What we do know is that people win and people lose using all
different theories Lady luck doesn't always play by the rules.
From reading these VP forums I can't see where your strategy is all
it's cracked up to be. I've read of alot of advantage players

taking

a beating.

And even more winning. That's why I often make reference to the bell
curve. Uing optimal play is not guarantee, never was, never will be.
It just improves your overall chances of winning over time. It's like
that raise I mentioned above.

Just one more thing. Most of my losses came on 8/5 BP. I only

played

the 7/5 when I had to. I started winning again when I went back to
the negative, high volativity games.

Once again, 8/5 BP is a NEGATIVE machine. I would never suggest
anyone invest large sums of money in a negative machine. Also, being
a lower volatility machine you will experience losses more often than
on a high volatility machine. The net result over time will still be
a factor of the overall payback of the machine.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomghysel" <tomghysel@y...> wrote:

#179

Did your "inside info" source relate this "administratively maintained"
randomness to a game's ER?

For example, do these programed hot and cold streaks still result
in an ER of 98.98% for a 9/6 DDB game.

If not, is the ER higher, or lower, or does it vary, and how could the
machines pass NV inspections?

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 24 Aug 2004 at 11:00, deadin7 wrote:

The comment on the hot machine is an interesting one. In an article I
wrote a few months ago, I disclosed inside info from a SW engineer at
one of the major industry machine manufacturers--and a friend--about
how all their newer machines in the past approx. 4 years were indeed
programmed to run in some hot, but mostly cold cycles. The machine's
randomness, while never absolute on any machine ever anyway, is
administratively maintained within those cycles. The multi-
denom's./multi-game machines incorporate completely different cycles
for each game-type and/or denomination you choose ...

#180

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bonuspokergod"
<bonuspokergod@y...> wrote:

Dick, do you HONESTLY believe that any casino anywhere offers any
game that will allow people to hammer on it for hours on end and
make consistent money on it?

Yes.
  

If such a practice were possible, then please explain why Bob

Dancer

& Jean Scott have to sell crap to make a living then?

I met Bob once and never talked to him, but I know Jean still plays
for fun and profit. Are you actually asking why people try to make
money in a capitalistic system? What a dumb question.

THEN, please explain why CASINOS PAY THEM MONEY to hold seminars on
CASINO PROPERTY?

Because the casinos know that most people won't spend the time and
effort to play correctly. Most folks have real jobs. I've discussed
advantage play with several other people and almost all of them still
will not take the time. This doesn't change the FACT that advantage
play is the BEST approach for playing video poker. Certainly, Rob's
system adds NOTHING, otherwise he could show the math behind the
system.

Do you actually believe that a 5 coin difference for a full-house
actually means anything if you never hit the full house?? Hahahaha!

Is this supposed to make sense? Based on YOUR logic do you actually
believe a 1875 coin difference in quad aces/kicker means anything if
you never hit the quad aces/kicker? Hahahaha!