vpFREE2 Forums

xvp - 40,000 patients in Las Vegas possibly exposed to Hepat...

He added that some nurses and nurse anesthetists followed orders by

administrators, principally Dr. Dipak Desai, that put patients at risk. But others
refused "because they were unwilling to risk subjecting patients to life
threatening diseases."<<

Too bad more weren't so ethical. This sounds like what goes on in the Third
World. I have been told to avoid travel to India because the blood supply
is contaminated with HIV - well, here it is in the U.S.. Horrible.

Karen

"She was not quite what you would call refined. She was not quite what you
would call unrefined. She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
- Mark Twain

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It would be good if "profit" would be removed from health care. We need HR676 single payer where the health care is not for profit.

krallison416@aol.com wrote: >>He added that some nurses and nurse anesthetists followed orders by
administrators, principally Dr. Dipak Desai, that put patients at risk. But others
refused "because they were unwilling to risk subjecting patients to life
threatening diseases."<<

Too bad more weren't so ethical. This sounds like what goes on in the Third
World. I have been told to avoid travel to India because the blood supply
is contaminated with HIV - well, here it is in the U.S.. Horrible.

Karen

"She was not quite what you would call refined. She was not quite what you
would call unrefined. She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
- Mark Twain

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

krallison416@aol.com wrote:

···

>>He added that some nurses and nurse anesthetists followed orders by
administrators, principally Dr. Dipak Desai, that put patients at risk. But others
refused "because they were unwilling to risk subjecting patients to life
threatening diseases."<<

Too bad more weren't so ethical. This sounds like what goes on in the Third
World. I have been told to avoid travel to India because the blood supply
is contaminated with HIV - well, here it is in the U.S.. Horrible.

--------------

If the perpertrators can't be prosecuted because of defective laws, the legislature should act swiftly.

The US is 37th in Health Care and 1/3 of health care costs go to administration and profits. Yes, we are third world, profits b4 patients.

···

MHS <mspevack@optonline.net> wrote: krallison416@aol.com wrote:

>>He added that some nurses and nurse anesthetists followed orders by
administrators, principally Dr. Dipak Desai, that put patients at
risk. But others
refused "because they were unwilling to risk subjecting patients to life
threatening diseases."<<

Too bad more weren't so ethical. This sounds like what goes on in the
Third
World. I have been told to avoid travel to India because the blood supply
is contaminated with HIV - well, here it is in the U.S.. Horrible.

--------------

If the perpertrators can't be prosecuted because of defective laws, the
legislature should act swiftly.

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To prolong this non-VP thread....LOL...

Not many choose to go to the 1st 36 of the list for their health care when they have a choice
and the access. Many do choose # 37, however.

Just ask the Canadians along the US border.

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

The US is 37th in Health Care

When you remove incentives the "quality" goes to hell.

···

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

It would be good if "profit" would be removed from
health care. We need HR676 single payer where the
health care is not for profit.

Not true. The quality of health care in developed single payer countries is better without all the hassles of deductibles, co -pays, insurance company approvals, denials, adn discrimination against the lesser affluent.
The propsed tax increase to fund HR676 per person would be less than what we pay now out of pocket and would save corpoartions millions which could be divided between the shareholders and the workers. Medical care is a right and should never be for profit! The example in Vegas is just one case where putting profit b4 patients has been a disaster.
Richard Boozer <reboozer@yahoo.com> wrote: When you remove incentives the "quality" goes to hell.

···

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

It would be good if "profit" would be removed from
health care. We need HR676 single payer where the
health care is not for profit.

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ayn Rand would disagree with you. If she were here, she'd ask on what
basis do doctors owe anyone medical care. Since she's not, I will.

···

pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

Medical care is a right

Medical care along with many other so called "rights"
are NOT rights at all but "rights" created in some
peoples imagination and fantasies.

···

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not true. The quality of health care in developed
single payer countries is better without all the
hassles of deductibles, co -pays, insurance company
approvals, denials, adn discrimination against the
lesser affluent.
The propsed tax increase to fund HR676 per person
would be less than what we pay now out of pocket and
would save corpoartions millions which could be
divided between the shareholders and the workers.
Medical care is a right and should never be for
profit! The example in Vegas is just one case where
putting profit b4 patients has been a disaster.
Richard Boozer <reboozer@yahoo.com> wrote:
When you remove incentives the "quality" goes to
hell.

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It would be good if "profit" would be removed from
> health care. We need HR676 single payer where the
> health care is not for profit.

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

"We have the best health care system in the world but only the rich and
the poor have access to it."
  KINKY FRIEDMAN

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Boozer <reboozer@...> wrote:

Medical care along with many other so called "rights"
are NOT rights at all but "rights" created in some
peoples imagination and fantasies.

We do NOT have the best health care system in the world - the number of deaths due lack of carefulness in hospitals is staggering, medical mistakes, cost cutting, putting profit b4 patients -our system is a joke -insurance companies decide what treatment we get -we are 37th -a great shame for a developed country. We need HR676, single payer universal health care. Medicare has an expense ratio of 3%, our system is 1/3 fo costs is profit and administrative expenses -not to mention deductibles, co pays, and frequent double billing with the CEO of United Helath Care getting compensation that would insure 34,000 people.

···

mickeycrimm <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Boozer <reboozer@...> wrote:

Medical care along with many other so called "rights"
are NOT rights at all but "rights" created in some
peoples imagination and fantasies.

"We have the best health care system in the world but only the rich and
the poor have access to it."
KINKY FRIEDMAN

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If u are correct then there are no rights of any kind. It would seem to be fair that everyone should be given the chance to be as healthy as anyone else. While many medical problems are preventable (smoking, for example)many are not. Health care should be like the police dept or the library, paid by taxes, not a matter of ones financial success or lack thereof. HR676 would cost employer/employe 4.75% each and a small tax on the upper 1% of earners. If you take a person earning 50K, 4.75% = $2,375. For example, accordinging to many I have "good" insurance but here is what I pay, dental $50 deductible, 50% co pay on an implant (and I take good care of my teeth but as you get older you need dental work) costing at least $1250 out of pocket due insurance covering 50%, $15 per MD visit @ 4 x's per year for (age 58), prescription co pays, about $120/year, $75 pe rmonth = $600 per year deducted from my paycheck for health care, $100 co pay for progressive lenses (bi focals not
workeable for me), and my employer pays out about $6000 for me which if we split this qually my Company could save $6,000 - $2375 = $3625 which if we split it half for them half for me I owuld get more per year. There is no way that single payer would not be an improvement over our present system. Note 50% of bankruptcies are due medical bills.
   
  By the way, if you are not alreayd aware another hospital in Vegas has now been reported for reusing syringes, etc. it is one thing that years ago they were put in a sterilizer of extremely hot water and sterilized for reuse but this wasn;t the case here.
   
  Socialized medicine is a good thing, we have just been brainwashed to oppose it!

          Medical care along with many other so called "rights"
are NOT rights at all but "rights" created in some
peoples imagination and fantasies.

···

Richard Boozer <reboozer@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

Not true. The quality of health care in developed
single payer countries is better without all the
hassles of deductibles, co -pays, insurance company
approvals, denials, adn discrimination against the
lesser affluent.
The propsed tax increase to fund HR676 per person
would be less than what we pay now out of pocket and
would save corpoartions millions which could be
divided between the shareholders and the workers.
Medical care is a right and should never be for
profit! The example in Vegas is just one case where
putting profit b4 patients has been a disaster.
Richard Boozer <reboozer@yahoo.com> wrote:
When you remove incentives the "quality" goes to
hell.

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

> It would be good if "profit" would be removed from
> health care. We need HR676 single payer where the
> health care is not for profit.

---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]

---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Medical care along with many other so called "rights"
> are NOT rights at all but "rights" created in some
> peoples imagination and fantasies.
>
>
>
"We have the best health care system in the world but only the rich

and

the poor have access to it."
  KINKY FRIEDMAN
I agree. I'm from Dallas and he may run again. He may not have a

chance, but I need some humor in my life.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Boozer <reboozer@> wrote:

Socialized medicine is a good thing, we have just been brainwashed to
oppose it!

I just spit out my drink. Wow, people on VPFree amaze me.

Who has been brainwashed?? I'd say it's you!

···

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@yahoo.com> wrote:

  Socialized medicine is a good thing, we have just
been brainwashed to oppose it!

Who has been brainwashed?? I'd say it's you!

--- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

> Socialized medicine is a good thing, we have just
> been brainwashed to oppose it!

"Socialized" ANYTHING is a terrible thing. Socialism is right up

there with alchemy, medicine by leeches, and human sacrifice as one
of the worst ideas of all time. It ignores completely the idea of
human INCENTIVE. Karl Marx must not have spent much time out in the
real world, and neither must have the legions who followed him
(excepting the ones who professed faith in his philosophies merely as
a pretext to impose state terror).

What you refer to as "brainwashing" is actually the skin-crawling

feeling that horrible ideas give most of us when they are proposed by
our putative leaders.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Boozer <reboozer@...> wrote:

AMEN !!!!

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: tralfamidorgooglycrackers
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:40 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: xvp - Marxian Medicine?

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Boozer <reboozer@...> wrote:
  >
  > Who has been brainwashed?? I'd say it's you!
  >
  >
  > --- pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:
  >
  > > Socialized medicine is a good thing, we have just
  > > been brainwashed to oppose it!
  >

  >>>"Socialized" ANYTHING is a terrible thing. Socialism is right up
  there with alchemy, medicine by leeches, and human sacrifice as one
  of the worst ideas of all time. It ignores completely the idea of
  human INCENTIVE. Karl Marx must not have spent much time out in the
  real world, and neither must have the legions who followed him
  (excepting the ones who professed faith in his philosophies merely as
  a pretext to impose state terror).
  >>>What you refer to as "brainwashing" is actually the skin-crawling
  feeling that horrible ideas give most of us when they are proposed by
  our putative leaders.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>>>"Socialized" ANYTHING is a terrible thing. Socialism is right up
there with alchemy, medicine by leeches, and human sacrifice as one
of the worst ideas of all time. It ignores completely the idea of
human INCENTIVE.

gee, last time i check the incentive to survive is pretty strong in all
life not just human...talk about incentive...and of course leeches are
actually still used in medicine as an effective way to make wounds heal
faster as they bring more blood to the area affected...
...how about less ranting and more rationalism on the board...i guess i
should have said at least some rationalism...

gee, last time i check the incentive to survive is pretty strong in

all

life not just human...talk about incentive...and of course leeches

are

actually still used in medicine as an effective way to make wounds

heal

faster as they bring more blood to the area affected...
...how about less ranting and more rationalism on the board...i guess

i

should have said at least some rationalism...

I guess if you hang around long enough, you can find someone willing

to defend ANY position...LOL.

Next time you're scheduled for major surgery, let's see if you have

the courage of your convictions by ordering a big tub of leeches for
the doctors to use on you.

···

And no fair ordering STERILE leeches.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@...>
wrote:

To prolong this non-VP thread....LOL...

Not many choose to go to the 1st 36 of the list for their health

care when they have a choice

and the access. Many do choose # 37, however.

Just ask the Canadians along the US border.

..... bl

Yeah, I think everyone forgot about the memo from Great Britain last
year. The one about putting off all surgery for 6 months, because
they were over budget.

Just what I want to hear when I need surgery. "I am sorry, you need
to wait 6 months before you get that heart surgery."

Another thing you never hear about, from Great Britain, all the
deaths in the hospitals, from staff infection and the like.

HMM, I wonder if that could be from re-using needle's?