I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area. I would like to know where the
best pay backs on VP are around the area. I have heard that the
Meadows in PA is good but also Greektown in Detroit.
Where is good VP in MI, PA, ON, or WV
West Virginia has nothing. I read on a web site a year or so ago that
the Meadows had some VP which had relatively good return ratios, if the
games were there, I did not find them, and I scoured the entire, tacky,
smoke-filled, depressing place. But if anyone provides information on
positive VP casinos, in the region you mentioned, I look forward to
reading about it.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mltoth@..." <mltoth@...> wrote:
I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area. I would like to know where the
best pay backs on VP are around the area. I have heard that the
Meadows in PA is good but also Greektown in Detroit.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area. I would like to know where the
> best pay backs on VP are around the area. I have heard that the
> Meadows in PA is good but also Greektown in Detroit.
>
I don't have an awful lot of information on good VP in these
areas....however, I can tell you with certainty that you do not want to
play VP in PA as it is not random as it is in Vegas or AC. They chose
to go with the same type of machines as NY state where correct play and
pay schedules mean very little.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mltoth@" <mltoth@> wrote:
The best VP in the area is Pick Em at 99.95% in Detroit (Greektown and
MGM) and Windsor.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mltoth@..." <mltoth@...> wrote:
I live in the Cleveland, Ohio area. I would like to know where the
best pay backs on VP are around the area. I have heard that the
Meadows in PA is good but also Greektown in Detroit.
RN wrote:
I don't have an awful lot of information on good VP in these
areas....however, I can tell you with certainty that you do not want
to play VP in PA as it is not random as it is in Vegas or AC. They
chose to go with the same type of machines as NY state where correct
play and pay schedules mean very little.
Where have you encountered this in PA?
It's not the case at Harrah's Chester, nor is it reported to be the
case either at Phila Park or Mt Airy
are the slots and vp in PA have a RNG or played like bingo? do these
vp machines use programming that reshuffles the deck at every hand like
in LV.
All PA games are class III. The problem lies in the fact that the casinos fall under the control of the Lottery and they are all short pay. We have found no full pay games whatsoever. We have never been to Chester or Philly park, but the best we have found is 8/5 JOB. There are full pay machines @ Mountaineer in Chester WVA. This is a touch over an hour from Cleveland. Go hit a royal!
PS,
We will be playing tomorrow evening at the Borgata on a 9/6 Machine near the restrooms behind the center bar. If any of you are in the area for the slot tourney, stop, introduce yourself and say hello. Look for an old fat guy (Bill) or a younger thin lady with short dark hair (Jenn). It's always nice to put a face with a cyber name.
Remember ..... life is only what you make it. Never settle for second best. Bill
···
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: harry.porter@verizon.net
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:00:50 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Where is good VP in MI, PA, ON, or WV
RN wrote:
I don't have an awful lot of information on good VP in these
areas....however, I can tell you with certainty that you do not want
to play VP in PA as it is not random as it is in Vegas or AC. They
chose to go with the same type of machines as NY state where correct
play and pay schedules mean very little.
Where have you encountered this in PA?
It's not the case at Harrah's Chester, nor is it reported to be the
case either at Phila Park or Mt Airy
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are part of your life.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093175mrt/direct/01/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bill vandivner wrote:
All PA games are class III. The problem lies in the fact that the
casinos fall under the control of the Lottery and they are all
short pay. We have found no full pay games whatsoever. We have
never been to Chester or Philly park, but the best we have found is
8/5 JOB. There are full pay machines @ Mountaineer in Chester WVA.
If I understand correctly, the PA Gaming Control Board operates
independently of the PA Lottery (which is a division of the Dept of
Revenue).
The factor that drives sub-par paytables in PA is that its casinos are
reportedly among the most heavily taxed in the nation.
Nonetheless, it's reported that Mt Airy casino has a healthy inventory
of 9/6 Jacks and other 99% ER games at the $1+ denomination.
- H.
are the slots and vp in PA have a RNG or played like bingo? do these
vp machines use programming that reshuffles the deck at every hand
like
in LV.
Can anyone explain what Bingo based VP is? A casino in Shorter, Al.
has a 10/7 VP but it is Bingo based....I asked several casino
employees to explain how that was different than the random number
generator VP.....any help along these lines would be appreciated.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mltoth@..." <mltoth@...> wrote:
This is Class II Indian gaming. The VP game is just for display, you are actually playing Bingo against the other people in the casino. When you press the deal button the Bingo game starts and ends within a fraction of a second and your result is determined. Some hand is displayed. Your discards are irrelevant since the final outcome has already been determined. If you make a strange selection of discards and you have a winning hand the machine will make sure your final hand produces the predetermined result.
The pay table does NOT tell you what the machine's return is; that return is determined by the structure of the underlying Bingo game.
Don't make the mistake of thinking the game is rigged, it is not. However, it is not like commercial or Class III Indian gaming where every card has an equal chance of coming up. It is fair within its rules, it is just not like Nevada.
···
At 05:34 PM 2/19/2009, you wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mltoth@..." <mltoth@...> wrote:
>
> are the slots and vp in PA have a RNG or played like bingo? do these
> vp machines use programming that reshuffles the deck at every hand
like
> in LV.
>
Can anyone explain what Bingo based VP is? A casino in Shorter, Al.
has a 10/7 VP but it is Bingo based....I asked several casino
employees to explain how that was different than the random number
generator VP.....any help along these lines would be appreciated.------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Does anyone know what class of gaming is in PA, WV, MI, and Canada?
And what do the different classes mean? Las Vegas is class III right?
If you make a strange selection of discards and you have a winning hand the
machine will make sure your final hand produces the predetermined result.
---What if you held all five RAZGU cards and you were the bingo winner?
Just curious.
Scot
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Bill Coleman
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 7:47 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Where is good VP in MI, PA, ON, or WV
There is information about Class I, II and III machines
in FAQ #3c and its VLT link:
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#3c
···
On 20 Feb 2009 at 3:59, mltoth@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Does anyone know what class of gaming is in PA, WV, MI, and Canada?
And what do the different classes mean? Las Vegas is class III right?
mltoth wrote:
are the slots and vp in PA have a RNG or played like bingo? do
these vp machines use programming that reshuffles the deck at every
hand like in LV.
As bill v. has indicated, the PA machines in the casinos noted in this
thread are LV-compliant and deal/draw as you would expect.
- H.
Bill Coleman wrote:
Don't make the mistake of thinking the game is rigged, it is not.
However, it is not like commercial or Class III Indian gaming where
every card has an equal chance of coming up. It is fair within its
rules, it is just not like Nevada.
I agree with every statement in your post except the above -- if a
machine is programmed in such a way that cards have an uneven
probability of appearance, then in my mind the machine is "rigged" to
deal in a manner other than a random deal of cards would dictate.
But, as you note, that's entirely legal within their respective
jurisdictions. I wouldn't apply the term "fair", however.
- H.
mltoth wrote:
> Does anyone know what class of gaming is in PA, WV, MI, and
> Canada?
> And what do the different classes mean? Las Vegas is class III
> right?
vpFae wrote:
There is information about Class I, II and III machines
in FAQ #3c and its VLT link:
I'll add my own take here:
Bill C has asserted that the machine "Class" designations have no
meaning outside of the Indian tribal casinos. He's likely correct --
these terms are identified by the National Indian Gaming Commission,
with strict applicability to the tribal casinos. They aren't intended
to define machines in any other venue.
Class II are machines that operate under a Bingo-engine device -- a
bingo game is played in the background between selected players in the
casino; a win yields a winning outcome on the player's machine.
Any other machine that operates in any other manner whatsoever is a
Class III machine. These include lottery VLT (pull-tab equivalent)
machines as well as LV-complaint machines. Class II machines can be
operated by a tribal casino strictly under the auspices of the NIGC.
Class III machines can only be operated by tribes that have entered
into compacts with the state in which they're located that permit the
equipment.
It can be said that if a machine found in LV were placed in a tribal
casino, it would be deemed a Class III machine. So would the non
LV-compliant VLT machines found in NY racinos.
As has been discussed, what typically distinguishes a non LV-compliant
machine from one that is compliant is that the non-compliant machines
typically add some artificial mechanism to force a predetermined play
win (genie, match card, etc.)
- Harry
Bill Coleman wrote:
···
This is Class II Indian gaming. The VP game is just for display, you
are actually playing Bingo against the other people in the casino.
When you press the deal button the Bingo game starts and ends within
a fraction of a second and your result is determined. Some hand is
displayed. Your discards are irrelevant since the final outcome has
already been determined. If you make a strange selection of discards
and you have a winning hand the machine will make sure your final
hand produces the predetermined result.The pay table does NOT tell you what the machine's return is; that
return is determined by the structure of the underlying Bingo game.Don't make the mistake of thinking the game is rigged, it is not.
However, it is not like commercial or Class III Indian gaming where
every card has an equal chance of coming up. It is fair within its
rules, it is just not like Nevada.
--------------
And there is seemingly no way to find out the house advantage, payback percentages, etc. etc.
Bill Coleman wrote:
>
> This is Class II Indian gaming. The VP game is just for display,
you
> are actually playing Bingo against the other people in the casino.
> When you press the deal button the Bingo game starts and ends
within
> a fraction of a second and your result is determined. Some hand is
> displayed. Your discards are irrelevant since the final outcome
has
> already been determined. If you make a strange selection of
discards
> and you have a winning hand the machine will make sure your final
> hand produces the predetermined result.
>
> The pay table does NOT tell you what the machine's return is; that
> return is determined by the structure of the underlying Bingo
game.
>
> Don't make the mistake of thinking the game is rigged, it is not.
> However, it is not like commercial or Class III Indian gaming
where
> every card has an equal chance of coming up. It is fair within its
> rules, it is just not like Nevada.
BiLL: Thanks....this is the best explaination I have had on
bingo based VP....thanks again...dave
>
>
>--------------
And there is seemingly no way to find out the house advantage,
payback
mltoth wrote:
> are the slots and vp in PA have a RNG or played like bingo? do
> these vp machines use programming that reshuffles the deck at every
> hand like in LV.As bill v. has indicated, the PA machines in the casinos noted in this
thread are LV-compliant and deal/draw as you would expect.- H.
for pa gaming commission regulations about rng go
r.pdf page 161 section d
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
to:http://www.pgcb.state.pa.us/files/regulations/Final_Regulations_Maste
There have been many posts on this. The Class I, II, III designations ONLY relate to Indian gaming. Class III is similar to Nevada and most other commercial jurisdictions. Many other states have racinos run by their state lotteries and the machines are referred to as VLT's. In most cases (except for NY State racinos) the differences between VLT's and other slot / video poker machines is irrelevant to the consumer.
Class II Indian machines are based on either a Bingo game or pull-tabs. The players are not playing against the house, they are playing against each other with the house taking a percentage. The machines look like slots and VP machines but the machine action is only a way to display the results of the underlying game. Most Class II jurisdictions require that the Bingo card be displayed on the machine face, but there are some that do not.
Hope this helps.
···
At 07:59 PM 2/19/2009, you wrote:
Does anyone know what class of gaming is in PA, WV, MI, and Canada?
And what do the different classes mean? Las Vegas is class III right?------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links