vpFREE2 Forums

VP machines reset for Tourney; what a difference on frequent BIG Hits !

#1

Was playing on $1 9/6 DDB machine (a bank of 12) one Saturday
afternoon at Harrah's San Diego. Things were pretty quiet: occasional
hits only and noone hitting the RF or 4-Aces with kicker. Then around
12:45pm here comes some casino personnel asking us to get off the
machines as they are going to reset them for a 4-hour VP Tourney Play.

What a diffence! After the machines were RESET, people playing in
the tourney where hitting frequently...one hitting the RF within 5
minutes of play, and many more hitting Quads. Coincidence?
I wish they would leave that kind of settings on these machines all-
the-time. :>
After 5pm, the machines were reset again and as expected, they
weren't hitting as often as when they were being used in the tourney.

Is the random seed on Tourney Plays set diffently?
Is there any other settings (besides the normal and tourney) that
they can set these machines that we don't know about?

#2

Is the random seed on Tourney Plays set diffently?
Is there any other settings (besides the normal and tourney) that
they can set these machines that we don't know about?

Generally, tournament settings for video poker vary in the following
ways:

1. The machines are usually set faster
2. If a player chooses to discard all cards, the machine will deal
all 5 cards at once, not one at a time
3. Sometimes, the credits only count up, not down

I hope this helps.
Replies appreciated.

#3

I played in my first vp tourney just a few weeks ago (Harrah's Kansas
City). I did not see any evidence of a higher frequency of big hits.
   I think it would be illegal for the machine to have another setting
because anything other than a random deal is illegal in many
jurisdictions. The tourney setting just allows the credits to
accumulate without losses for the no pay hands and also allows for a
timer to limit playing time.

The game was Double Double Bomus and I would like to hear comments on
the proper strategy to use. There were 3 rounds of 5 minutes each and
you throw out your lowest score. The top 5% advance to the final round
and win a minimum of 250. Obviously max er is not the best strategy,
but I believe a strategy that maximizes your chance of hitting 4 Aces
or bonus quads is your best chance to advance to the final round. If
someone has already worked this out I would appreciate a reply.

After the first round I tried to use my new strategy, but without any
practice it slowed my play to go against my normal max er play. The
obvious lesson here is you must practice a new strategy first, but I
did not have the time.

Chris

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...> wrote:

Was playing on $1 9/6 DDB machine (a bank of 12) one Saturday
afternoon at Harrah's San Diego. Things were pretty quiet: occasional
hits only and noone hitting the RF or 4-Aces with kicker. Then around
12:45pm here comes some casino personnel asking us to get off the
machines as they are going to reset them for a 4-hour VP Tourney Play.

What a diffence! After the machines were RESET, people playing in
the tourney where hitting frequently...one hitting the RF within 5
minutes of play, and many more hitting Quads. Coincidence?
I wish they would leave that kind of settings on these machines all-
the-time. :>
After 5pm, the machines were reset again and as expected, they
weren't hitting as often as when they were being used in the tourney.

Is the random seed on Tourney Plays set diffently?
Is there any other settings (besides the normal and tourney) that
they can set these machines that we don't know about?

#4

Yes, there is a tournament chip (or "mode") on machines that are used for both general play and tournament play. Slot tech switches it as needed. Almost all tournament machines are set "loose" to give people the impression that the machines on the floor will also be loose!!!!! A little psychological trick the casinos are very good at!!!

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

used for both general play and tournament play. Slot tech switches it
as needed. Almost all tournament machines are set "loose" to give
people the impression that the machines on the floor will also be
loose!!!!! A little psychological trick the casinos are very good at!!!

Jean, this is true for slot tournaments, but the question was about VP
tournaments.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:

Yes, there is a tournament chip (or "mode") on machines that are

#6

used for both general play and tournament play. Slot tech switches
it as needed. Almost all tournament machines are set "loose" to give
people the impression that the machines on the floor will also be
loose!!!!! A little psychological trick the casinos are very good
at!!!

Absolutely true for slots, however, I've never seen this in the VP
tournaments I've played in.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:

Yes, there is a tournament chip (or "mode") on machines that are

#7

Wouldn't this be illegal for Video Poker, even in a tournament?
Jean Scott wrote:

Yes, there is a tournament chip (or "mode") on machines that are used
for both general play and tournament play. Slot tech switches it as
needed. Almost all tournament machines are set "loose" to give people
the impression that the machines on the floor will also be loose!!!!!
A little psychological trick the casinos are very good at!!!
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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#8

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumpkin1034" <pumpkin1034@y...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...>

wrote:

> Yes, there is a tournament chip (or "mode") on machines that are
used for both general play and tournament play. Slot tech

switches it

as needed. Almost all tournament machines are set "loose" to give
people the impression that the machines on the floor will also be
loose!!!!! A little psychological trick the casinos are very good

at!!!

Jean, this is true for slot tournaments, but the question was

about VP

···

tournaments.

-------------------
I do believe Jean's comments here are true!
As soon as the switch/reset was made back to non-tourney play, the
frequent Quads, FHs, and a couple of RFs seemed to go on VACATION.

About a year or two ago at the former Castaways, I saw Bob Dancer
got beat by many people playing next to him (Beat the Pro event) on
a Double Double Bonus vp tourney. Even with Bob's wife standing
behind him, giving him shoulder massage didn't help. The other
people's machines were just hitting too many 4-Aces, 4-2s, etc. over
and over.

#9

Jean - I'm probably reading more into your comment than you
intended. When you say the machines are loose when they're in the
tournament mode do you mean the pay scales are changed, or that the
deals aren't random? I can only speak about the VP tournies at
Harrah's KC, but the pay scales are not changed.

I thought the tournament mode only did the following: a) The
machines play as fast as the player can push the buttons and b) The
credits can be set to a certain starting amount and reset to that
amount with the turn of a key or press of a button between rounds.

carlos

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...>
wrote:

Yes, there is a tournament chip (or "mode") on machines that are

used for both general play and tournament play. Slot tech switches
it as needed. Almost all tournament machines are set "loose" to
give people the impression that the machines on the floor will also
be loose!!!!! A little psychological trick the casinos are very
good at!!!

#10

<Jean, this is true for slot tournaments, but the question was about VP
tournaments.>

Sorry - read too fast.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

There MAY be a "loose" tournament mode on a VP machine - that wouldn't necessarily have to follow the "random" state regulations, I don't think.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

<<Wouldn't this be illegal for Video Poker, even in a tournament?>>

I'm not sure - but tournaments may come under different rules since people aren't using their own money.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

About a year or two ago at the former Castaways, I saw Bob Dancer
got beat by many people playing next to him (Beat the Pro event) on
a Double Double Bonus vp tourney. Even with Bob's wife standing
behind him, giving him shoulder massage didn't help. The other
people's machines were just hitting too many 4-Aces, 4-2s, etc.

over

and over.

That would not happen using the WSOVP format I proposed several
weeks ago. Bob Dancer or some other very expert player would win.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...> wrote:

#14

I'm going to bow out of this discussion since I am "guessing" too much. I do know there is a tournament mode on some slot machines I have played during the tournament - because everyone gets higher credit scores than you would expect on the floor. I'm not sure about VP machines used in tournaments.

Now I must go finish packing - we're flying to GA tomorrow to spend a week with the Frugal Princess and her family, including two grandchildren who mean more to us than any number of royal flushes!!!!!!

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

Jean - I'm probably reading more into your comment than you
intended. When you say the machines are loose when they're in the
tournament mode do you mean the pay scales are changed, or that

the

deals aren't random? I can only speak about the VP tournies at
Harrah's KC, but the pay scales are not changed.

I thought the tournament mode only did the following: a) The
machines play as fast as the player can push the buttons and b)

The

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "calebr0n" <calebr0n@y...> wrote:

credits can be set to a certain starting amount and reset to that
amount with the turn of a key or press of a button between rounds.

carlos

-------------------------------------------
Maybe these other things can be considered about the "randomness" on
these vp machines reset for Tourney plays (temporarily):
1. The VP tourney was a FREE one (no entry fee) --- a casino promo.
2. The machines can still be random but, so what? You set
that "random seed" at some number to change the frequency of "hits"
and bingo --- everybody's hitting all over and enjoying the casino
promotion. Setting or changing these random seeds is very easy to
change in a software application. I do it all the time at work when
working with random generators for test data.
3. If nothing else, I mentioned that this was at Harrah's San Diego
(one of the Indian casinos).
4. Last but not least... COINCIDENCE??? The same were not really
hitting much and when we were told to play the other machines for
approximately 4 hours so they can RESET the machines for Tourney
play, many of the machines JUST DECIDED "it's time to give more
bigger hits" because the machines are now running faster!?
hmmmmmm...let's see. I have not seen a difference on our random
generation test results when we use the same random seed on both
slow and fast computers. But then again, maybe there is no such
thing as random seeding used in vp machines, right IGT programmer?

#16

See FAQ #50 (Bob Dancer article):

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#50

<a href="http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#50">
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#50</a>

···

On 24 Dec 2004 at 5:14, kcace1024 wrote:

Obviously max er is not the best strategy, but I believe a strategy
that maximizes your chance of hitting 4 Aces or bonus quads is your
best chance to advance to the final round. If someone has already
worked this out I would appreciate a reply.

#17

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:

2. The machines can still be random but, so what? You set
that "random seed" at some number to change the frequency

of "hits"

and bingo --- everybody's hitting all over and enjoying the casino
promotion. Setting or changing these random seeds is very easy to
change in a software application. I do it all the time at work

when

Isn't random random?

#18

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@y...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:

> 2. The machines can still be random but, so what? You set
> that "random seed" at some number to change the frequency
of "hits"
> and bingo --- everybody's hitting all over and enjoying the

casino

> promotion. Setting or changing these random seeds is very easy

to

> change in a software application. I do it all the time at work
when

Isn't random random?

There has been conjecture in the past that while across all seeds the
PRNG may be sufficiently random, there are some seeds that are more
positive for the player and some seeds that are more negative. This
could explain the concept of "hot" machines.

I suspect there is really nothing to this, but no one (other than the
developers) can prove it one way or the other.

Dick

#19

The numbers for tournament play that I have seen from IGT show all VP under
100%. The highest number I have seen for tournament slots is 2288%.

#20

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000"
<deuceswild1000@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:

> 2. The machines can still be random but, so what? You set
> that "random seed" at some number to change the frequency
of "hits"
> and bingo --- everybody's hitting all over and enjoying the

casino

> promotion. Setting or changing these random seeds is very easy

to

···

> change in a software application. I do it all the time at work
when

Isn't random random?

----------------------
Sounds like you're saying "Isn't chocolate chocolate?".
You probably know that there is brown chocolate, white chocolate, or
even dark chocolate. And they don't all taste the same.

If you write 2 simple random generation routines to generate random
names (20 characters long) from a-z, 0-9:
one without using the random seed and one with a random seed (such
as the number of seconds from datetime).

Do you see the difference now?
If not, here's what I see from running a similar test.
Duplicate names get generated more often when the random seed is
specified.

So if a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then that
explains why you see more hits when people play these 10-15 minute
VP tournaments.