vpFREE2 Forums

VP machines reset for Tourney; what a difference on frequent BIG Hits !

#21

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000"
<deuceswild1000@y...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...>
> wrote:
>
>
> > 2. The machines can still be random but, so what? You set
> > that "random seed" at some number to change the frequency
> of "hits"
> > and bingo --- everybody's hitting all over and enjoying the
casino
> > promotion. Setting or changing these random seeds is very

easy

to
> > change in a software application. I do it all the time at

work

> when
>
>
> Isn't random random?
----------------------
Sounds like you're saying "Isn't chocolate chocolate?".
You probably know that there is brown chocolate, white chocolate,

or

even dark chocolate. And they don't all taste the same.

If you write 2 simple random generation routines to generate

random

names (20 characters long) from a-z, 0-9:
one without using the random seed and one with a random seed (such
as the number of seconds from datetime).

Do you see the difference now?
If not, here's what I see from running a similar test.
Duplicate names get generated more often when the random seed is
specified.

So if a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then that
explains why you see more hits when people play these 10-15 minute
VP tournaments.

Depends on what the definition of is is!

#22

If a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then
limited anecdotal evidence is the reason that you "see more
hits when people play these 10-15 minute VP tournaments".

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 2 Jan 2005 at 0:34, gilbert_616 wrote:

So if a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then that
explains why you see more hits when people play these 10-15 minute VP
tournaments.

#23

If a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then
limited anecdotal evidence is the reason that you "see more
hits when people play these 10-15 minute VP tournaments".

vpFREE Administrator

Amen

#24

vpFREE Admin wrote:

If a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then
limited anecdotal evidence is the reason that you "see more
hits when people play these 10-15 minute VP tournaments".

Not necessarily true. Were it my desire to program a tournament mode
in which there was greater hit frequency, I'd generate 10 card
hands/draws in normal fashion, but toss out any generated set of cards
that didn't have the potential for at least a 3K win (non wild-card
game; adjust appropriately for a wild-card game). To make the game a
little less favorable, you might invoke the filter only x% of the hands.

We can only speculate what might have been at hand in the situation
gil observed. I will say that for the vp tournaments in which I've
participated, card generation hasn't appeared biased to any degree.

The only change has been a souped up paytable in which all hand wins
paid inflated amounts. Additionally, lower paytable hits were
disproportionately (more strongly) weighted so that even a RF hit
during play wouldn't guarantee a win. Bottom line result is to give
most players a sense that they're in the running during the course of
the tournament.

Others have discussed tournaments played with standard paytables (and
haven't noted any apparent card bias).

- Harry

#25

We can only speculate what might have been at hand in the situation
gil observed. I will say that for the vp tournaments in which I've
participated, card generation hasn't appeared biased to any degree.

The only change has been a souped up paytable in which all hand

wins

paid inflated amounts. Additionally, lower paytable hits were
disproportionately (more strongly) weighted so that even a RF hit
during play wouldn't guarantee a win. Bottom line result is to

give

most players a sense that they're in the running during the course

of

the tournament.

Others have discussed tournaments played with standard paytables

(and

haven't noted any apparent card bias).

- Harry

So then what Gil observed was not"random" as he defined it?

DWK

#26

So if a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode",

then that explains why you see more hits when people play
these 10-15 minute VP tournaments.<<<

vpFREE Admin replied:

> If a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then
> limited anecdotal evidence is the reason that you "see more
> hits when people play these 10-15 minute VP tournaments".

On 2 Jan 2005 at 4:59, Harry Porter replied:

Not necessarily true. Were it my desire to program a tournament mode in
which there was greater hit frequency, I'd generate 10 card hands/draws
in normal fashion, but toss out any generated set of cards that didn't
have the potential for at least a 3K win (non wild-card game; adjust
appropriately for a wild-card game). To make the game a little less
favorable, you might invoke the filter only x% of the hands.

Apples and oranges.

If you gaff a video poker game with tosses and filters,
then the random number generator is no longer THE
determinant of card frequency and distribution.

However, this would be correct:

'So if a random seed that has been modified with tosses
and filters is used in "Tournament Play mode", then that
would explain why you see more hits when people play
these 10-15 minute VP tournaments.'

#27

>>>So if a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode",
then that explains why you see more hits when people play
these 10-15 minute VP tournaments.<<<

vpFREE Admin replied:

> > If a random seed is used in "Tournament Play mode", then
> > limited anecdotal evidence is the reason that you "see more
> > hits when people play these 10-15 minute VP tournaments".

On 2 Jan 2005 at 4:59, Harry Porter replied:

> Not necessarily true. Were it my desire to program a tournament

mode in

> which there was greater hit frequency, I'd generate 10 card

hands/draws

> in normal fashion, but toss out any generated set of cards that

didn't

> have the potential for at least a 3K win (non wild-card game;

adjust

> appropriately for a wild-card game). To make the game a little

less

> favorable, you might invoke the filter only x% of the hands.

Apples and oranges.

If you gaff a video poker game with tosses and filters,
then the random number generator is no longer THE
determinant of card frequency and distribution.

Players in a tournament are trying to maximize variance,
not expected return, because to win a tournament you need
to be much luckier than average. So players go for straight and flush
draws instead of holding small pairs. This could explain a higher
number of big payouts altough the overall payout would be lower.

On random number generators. These are not truly random since they are
arithmetic algorithms that are determinate - i.e. start with the same
seed number and do the same math will produce the same sequence of
random numbers. However they can add other variables such as the time
of day in seconds or milliseconds or time interval since you last hit
deal to seed the random number generator or as an input to it so that
it becomes unpredictable. In any case starting with a particular seed
should not affect the odds or payout of a machine IN THE LONG RUN.

Dave Nixon

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote: