Is it possible to control the cards one is dealt (or not dealt) remotely while playing VP? Not asking whether it is done or not, just whether the technology is there to do so?
VP Control
With the amount of four to the Royal hands I have been dealt recently and not completed it makes me wonder also. LOL
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________________________________
From: katfish9999 <katfish9999@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, March 2, 2010 4:05:27 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] VP Control
Is it possible to control the cards one is dealt (or not dealt) remotely while playing VP? Not asking whether it is done or not, just whether the technology is there to do so?
------------------------------------
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It took me ~150 four-to-the-royal hands (and two years) before my first royal. 
Mitchell
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Long <carlboy101@...> wrote:
With the amount of four to the Royal hands I have been dealt recently and not completed it makes me wonder also. LOL
I don't know about remotely controled cards being dealt, but programs can surely be rigged. I remember a cable expose show episode, I can't remember which show, dealing with a case in the eighties where a large slot route operation in Las Vegas was shut down when it was found that with five coins in the machine somehow the royals would not be filled as often as they should be. Maybe some longtime Vegas local players would know more about this. After seeing your post I googled around looking for details about this case but could not find anything. I did find another case of this kind of thing on Arnold Snyders blackjack site where Sega was marketing a novelty blackjack machine with paytables too good to be true in 1992 at a gaming expo. These machines were being marketed legaly to cruise ships lines asian casinos and also those in the caribbean. I remember on some cruise's seeing off brand video poker machines and also seeing these in New Orleans bars. I would never play these things because who knows?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "katfish9999" <katfish9999@...> wrote:
Is it possible to control the cards one is dealt (or not dealt) remotely while playing VP? Not asking whether it is done or not, just whether the technology is there to do so?
Even 150 fruitless 4-card-draws isn't THAT rare. (46/47)^150 = 4%
That means it's easier to go 150 4-card-draws without a royal than get a payoff higher than trips on your next hand of JOB.
--Dunbar
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tsaimitch" <tsai@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Long <carlboy101@> wrote:
>
> With the amount of four to the Royal hands I have been dealt recently and not completed it makes me wonder also. LOLIt took me ~150 four-to-the-royal hands (and two years) before my first royal.
Mitchell
IGT and probably others have a system that allows control of machines in real time from a remote terminal. Probably not yet approved for use in Nevada on video poker. MindPlay is a blackjack computer system that tells the dealer when to shuffle up when the deck is unfavorable to the casino, the casinos promised not to use this feature as part of the approval process. According to current regulations in Nevada, casinos are not allowed to use computers to change the odds of the game, but there are many "grey areas" where this is already done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindPlay
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "katfish9999" <katfish9999@...> wrote:
Is it possible to control the cards one is dealt (or not dealt) remotely while playing VP? Not asking whether it is done or not, just whether the technology is there to do so?
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1997/Mar-12-Wed-1997/news/5015949.html
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpearlkc" <EAtkinson@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "katfish9999" <katfish9999@> wrote:
>
> Is it possible to control the cards one is dealt (or not dealt) remotely while playing VP? Not asking whether it is done or not, just whether the technology is there to do so?
>I don't know about remotely controled cards being dealt, but programs can surely be rigged. I remember a cable expose show episode, I can't remember which show, dealing with a case in the eighties where a large slot route operation in Las Vegas was shut down when it was found that with five coins in the machine somehow the royals would not be filled as often as they should be. Maybe some longtime Vegas local players would know more about this. After seeing your post I googled around looking for details about this case but could not find anything. I did find another case of this kind of thing on Arnold Snyders blackjack site where Sega was marketing a novelty blackjack machine with paytables too good to be true in 1992 at a gaming expo. These machines were being marketed legaly to cruise ships lines asian casinos and also those in the caribbean. I remember on some cruise's seeing off brand video poker machines and also seeing these in New Orleans bars. I would never play these things because who knows?
One thing I don't understand, but I'm sure someone on here can explain is:
I've heard that in a VP tournament the machines are "loosened up" to create more Royals, etc, or that casinos can choose how "loose" they want a VP machine to be - I have no idea if this is true, but if it somehow is, I don't understand how it could be, since the game is set up to act as a naturally shuffled deck of cards, or so I've heard on here. Is there a computer chip that produces more occurrences of certain card combinations? Doesn't seem to make sense.....
Valerie
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Valerie,
This is quite easy to see as I've seen it in Free Trial version of Video Poker for Winners and also at Harrahs Rincon casino.
After installing the trial version of Video Poker for Winners, I left the default settings alone and played as many games as I can. No matter which game I played, I was winning all the time. Royal Flushes, Four-of-a-kinds, etc. were showing up a lot. I posted a topic here about that and I was told that I have to set that program to the Expert Level for it to work normally like the vp machines in the casinos.
A few years ago, my friends and I were playing DDB at Harrahs Rincon and we could hardly hit a 4-of-a-kind on the same bank of machines. Then some Slot personnel came and told us we have to leave this bank of machines as they will be used for a VP tournament that afternoon. We watched the slot techs do their stuffs, stayed and watched the vp tournament. Guess what? People were hitting Royal Flushes and Four-of-a-kinds all over these machines. After the tournament, the slot techs made changes again to the machines. My friends and I played the machines again and sure enough, they were not hitting like they did during the tournament.
I hope this helps.
Gilbert
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:
One thing I don't understand, but I'm sure someone on here can explain is:
I've heard that in a VP tournament the machines are "loosened up" to create more Royals, etc, or that casinos can choose how "loose" they want a VP machine to be - I have no idea if this is true, but if it somehow is, I don't understand how it could be, since the game is set up to act as a naturally shuffled deck of cards, or so I've heard on here. Is there a computer chip that produces more occurrences of certain card combinations? Doesn't seem to make sense.....
Valerie
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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It doesn't make sense because it's wrong.
···
On 3/3/10, Valerie Pollard <vpollard@socal.rr.com> wrote:
One thing I don't understand, but I'm sure someone on here can explain is:
I've heard that in a VP tournament the machines are "loosened up" to create
more Royals, etc, or that casinos can choose how "loose" they want a VP
machine to be - I have no idea if this is true, but if it somehow is, I
don't understand how it could be, since the game is set up to act as a
naturally shuffled deck of cards, or so I've heard on here. Is there a
computer chip that produces more occurrences of certain card
combinations? Doesn't seem to make sense.....Valerie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Luke wrote,
"It doesn't make sense because it's wrong."
Thank you for the explanation.
Valerie
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4913 (20100303) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
How many friends? How many people in the tournament?
20-40 people, as a combined group, will obviously hit more four of a kinds and royals than 3-4 people playing during the same time period. Even though each individual person isn't hitting more frequently on average, if you focus only on the fact that more quads are being hit, without also taking into account the increased aggregate playing volume, you might think something's fishy when it's just random chance.
To put this another way, roughly/roundly speaking let's say a royal occurs on average once every 40,000 hands. Many people have experienced streaks of several cycles without actually hitting a royal. On the other hand, suppose you line up 40,000 video poker machines and have 40,000 people playing them simultaneously. At any given point in time, odds are *someone* in the line of 40,000 people has a royal flush.
It would be erroneous to say "look, I played by myself on this bank for 200K hands and didn't hit a royal, and now there's this 40,000 person video poker tournament and they're hitting a royal every single hand! It must be rigged!"
Obviously 20 or 40 is a smaller number than 40,000 but the effect and reasoning are the same, it's just a question of scale.
···
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Gilbert wrote:
A few years ago, my friends and I were playing DDB at Harrahs Rincon and we could hardly hit a 4-of-a-kind on the same bank of machines. Then some Slot personnel came and told us we have to leave this bank of machines as they will be used for a VP tournament that afternoon. We watched the slot techs do their stuffs, stayed and watched the vp tournament. Guess what? People were hitting Royal Flushes and Four-of-a-kinds all over these machines. After the tournament, the slot techs made changes again to the machines. My friends and I played the machines again and sure enough, they were not hitting like they did during the tournament.
Your description finally helped me put the words together in my head as to
why the 1-in-40,000 hands thing always has bothered me. Especially when
trying to explain to another math-savvy person why VP is not slots.
When we talk about royal droughts and the crazy amount of 4-card royals in a
series of sessions without hitting, we shouldn't be looking at 1-in-40,000.
We should be saying something more realistic like "The paytable indicates an
average of 1-in-40,000 hands but the average worst case is 1-in-100k+ hands
or whatever the math works out to be when you take into account 2 standard
deviations from the mean of the game based on the volatility / pay table."
By setting the expectation of royals as more of a bell curve/dart board
image in player's minds, we might have less "player's remorse" about
"where's my royal?"
It would be erroneous to say "look, I played by myself on this bank for
200K hands and didn't hit a royal, and now there's this 40,000 person
video poker tournament and they're hitting a royal every single hand! It
must be rigged!"
I've been playing Slot and VP Tournaments now and never saw 40,000 people playing them. The vp tournament was held from 1pm - 4pm for a very small "Invitation Only" group so the total number of machines used was 12.
That few years ago is at least 6+ years ago when the slot attendants were seen selecting "Tounament Mode" from the vp machines. The payschedule were not change and left at 9-6 DDB. After the tournament, the machines were taken off this "Tournament Mode". It would have been nice if they had forgotten to reset at least 1 of them. Many scored pretty High scores.
That was then. Lately, Harrahs holds its vp tournaments in a different area with at least 30-40 machines and the change they make on these machines are in the Payschedules from 8-5 DDB to 9-6 DDB which is what people are seeing NOW. Wish you had seen the THEN though...
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lone Locust of the Apocalypse <zorak@...> wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Gilbert wrote:
> A few years ago, my friends and I were playing DDB at Harrahs Rincon and
> we could hardly hit a 4-of-a-kind on the same bank of machines. Then
> some Slot personnel came and told us we have to leave this bank of
> machines as they will be used for a VP tournament that afternoon. We
> watched the slot techs do their stuffs, stayed and watched the vp
> tournament. Guess what? People were hitting Royal Flushes and
> Four-of-a-kinds all over these machines. After the tournament, the slot
> techs made changes again to the machines. My friends and I played the
> machines again and sure enough, they were not hitting like they did
> during the tournament.How many friends? How many people in the tournament?
20-40 people, as a combined group, will obviously hit more four of a kinds
and royals than 3-4 people playing during the same time period. Even
though each individual person isn't hitting more frequently on average, if
you focus only on the fact that more quads are being hit, without also
taking into account the increased aggregate playing volume, you might
think something's fishy when it's just random chance.To put this another way, roughly/roundly speaking let's say a royal occurs
on average once every 40,000 hands. Many people have experienced streaks
of several cycles without actually hitting a royal. On the other hand,
suppose you line up 40,000 video poker machines and have 40,000 people
playing them simultaneously. At any given point in time, odds are
*someone* in the line of 40,000 people has a royal flush.It would be erroneous to say "look, I played by myself on this bank for
200K hands and didn't hit a royal, and now there's this 40,000 person
video poker tournament and they're hitting a royal every single hand! It
must be rigged!"Obviously 20 or 40 is a smaller number than 40,000 but the effect and
reasoning are the same, it's just a question of scale.
That's why I said "suppose." It's a hypothetical situation which will
hopefully help people see the actual real world situation from a different
perspective.
···
On Thu, 4 Mar 2010, Gilbert wrote:
I've been playing Slot and VP Tournaments now and never saw 40,000 people playing them.
I remember on some cruise's seeing off brand video poker machines and also seeing these in New Orleans bars. I would never play these things because who knows?
I can't speak for the off brand machines on cruise ships, but the VP machines you see in New Orleans bars and resturants (also in other areas around Louisiana) are legit. Of course, the pay tables are absolutely horrid - that's the real reason not to play them.
EE
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpearlkc" <EAtkinson@...> wrote:
Luke wrote,
"It doesn't make sense because it's wrong."Thank you for the explanation.
Valerie
Do I sense sarcasm, Valerie?
Luke's answer might not have seemed like much of an explanation, but
its simplicity is a clue. There's a tendency to try to complicate the
concept of randomness. People want to see patterns, whereas the
nature of randomness is an absence of patterns. I believe it's the
law, at least in Nevada, that with video poker machines, every card
must have the same chance of occurring as every other card. Assuming
that law is followed, that's all the casino can do to control how
frequently any hand can appear. Many tournaments I've played in,
particularly the Venetian, have had "loose" machines in that their pay
table was ridiculously high. Jacks or Better paid 20 coins for a 5
coin bet, for example. But, unlike reel machines in most, if not all,
tournaments, which obviously have been "loosened up" to make far more
wins than normal, I didn't have the feeling that winning hands were
showing up any more often than on other machines.
For a cycle, you have about a 37% chance of getting no royals, about a 37% chance of getting one royal, and about a 26% chance of getting two or more royals. The person who gets no royal will claim the machines are fixed and the person who gets two or more royals will quit their day job, write a book, and become a professional gambler while the person who got one royal won't understand what all the fuss is about.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth Badrov" <wagner@...> wrote:
When we talk about royal droughts and the crazy amount of 4-card royals in a
series of sessions without hitting, we shouldn't be looking at 1-in-40,000.
We should be saying something more realistic like "The paytable indicates an
average of 1-in-40,000 hands but the average worst case is 1-in-100k+ hands
or whatever the math works out to be when you take into account 2 standard
deviations from the mean of the game based on the volatility / pay table."
By setting the expectation of royals as more of a bell curve/dart board
image in player's minds, we might have less "player's remorse" about
"where's my royal?"
I love this!
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
nightoftheiguana2000
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 12:50 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: VP Control
For a cycle, you have about a 37% chance of getting no royals, about a 37%
chance of getting one royal, and about a 26% chance of getting two or more
royals. The person who gets no royal will claim the machines are fixed and
the person who gets two or more royals will quit their day job, write a
book, and become a professional gambler while the person who got one royal
won't understand what all the fuss is about.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Elizabeth
Badrov" <wagner@...> wrote:
When we talk about royal droughts and the crazy amount of 4-card royals in
a
series of sessions without hitting, we shouldn't be looking at
1-in-40,000.
We should be saying something more realistic like "The paytable indicates
an
average of 1-in-40,000 hands but the average worst case is 1-in-100k+
hands
or whatever the math works out to be when you take into account 2 standard
deviations from the mean of the game based on the volatility / pay table."
By setting the expectation of royals as more of a bell curve/dart board
image in player's minds, we might have less "player's remorse" about
"where's my royal?"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is a little misleading. There are several systems available for
"server-based" gaming. This means that different games and / or paytables
can be downloaded to a machine. This cannot be done while anyone is playing
the machine or for a small time afterward.
It cannot control the cards dealt! This kind of program would NEVER be
approved in any regulated environment.
You could write a program to do this but it would easily be detected.
Several people would then go to jail.
And please don't post paranoid stuff about how the regulators would never
send a cheating casino's personnel to jail. If that's your reaction please
do everyone a favor and talk it over with your psychiatrist, not the list.
Bill
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
nightoftheiguana2000
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 9:47 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: VP Control
IGT and probably others have a system that allows control of machines in
real time from a remote terminal. Probably not yet approved for use in
Nevada on video poker. MindPlay is a blackjack computer system that tells
the dealer when to shuffle up when the deck is unfavorable to the casino,
the casinos promised not to use this feature as part of the approval
process. According to current regulations in Nevada, casinos are not allowed
to use computers to change the odds of the game, but there are many "grey
areas" where this is already done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindPlay
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "katfish9999" <katfish9999@...> wrote:
Is it possible to control the cards one is dealt (or not dealt) remotely
while playing VP? Not asking whether it is done or not, just whether the
technology is there to do so?