vpFREE2 Forums

Singer revisited

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Luke Fuller" <kungalooosh@...>
wrote:

Hey, Jim, if any of what you say is true, maybe I would
expect hostility, too.

But, the vpFREE administrator is claiming that the
hostility is not rampant (as I believe it is). He said that
I'm wrong about my belief and he is "....aware of only a
very few people who are hostile to Rob Singer."

Very few? What a joke!

If you want to see hostile simply go to the LVASports forum and check
them out. After that I suspect you will agree that VPFree is far from
hostile.

OTOH, many might consider me hostile to Rob. However, I have no
personal bad feelings toward him. As mentioned earlier he constantly
lies in order to support his system. The most logical reason for this
obvious behavior is that Singer is running a con. I described how
such a con might work a couple months ago on the LVA forums. It
explains why Singer continues to lie and exactly how he has "won" the
money he claims. I can go into more detail if anyone is interested.

Dick

I'm interested.

vpFae

···

On 31 Aug 2007 at 18:11, rgmustain wrote:

... The most logical reason for this obvious behavior is that Singer
is running a con. I described how such a con might work a couple
months ago on the LVA forums. It explains why Singer continues to
lie and exactly how he has "won" the money he claims. I can go into
more detail if anyone is interested.

> ... The most logical reason for this obvious behavior is that

Singer

> is running a con. I described how such a con might work a couple
> months ago on the LVA forums. It explains why Singer continues to
> lie and exactly how he has "won" the money he claims. I can go

into

> more detail if anyone is interested.

I'm interested.

vpFae

This is essentially what I posted on LVASports ...

Some may have wondered why I keep inferring that Rob Singer is a con
man and uses Gaming Today (GT) as a front for his activities. First,
I want to state that this is simply my opinion based on information
I've collected. I have no first hand experience with Singer, nor do I
personally know anyone who has. My opinions are based solely on the
information I've gathered over time and will provide here in this
fairly long post.

For those who missed my post in another thread. Here is how I think
the con works. This description probably isn't 100% accurate but I
think it gets to the jist of how it might work.

A) Singer writes books (he has two), columns (GT), maintains a
website and posts to as many internet forums as possible. He claims
to have a system that works almost all the time but never claims
anyone is guaranteed to win. He supports many of the established
features of good gambling; setting goals, being disciplined, etc.
When he is contacted by someone who has heard of him through one of
these many venues the con begins.
B) Singer sets up an "education session" (sting) with a new mark to
teach him how to win just like he does. He asks for only two things.
Some portion of the winnings (this could be done many ways) for the
knowledge he is bestowing on the mark and use of his players card for
the session. He probably says this is required as proof of
his "business" activity to claim expenses and to justify travel
expenses. He asks for no direct payment of any kind (just that
portion of the winnings). If the mark loses then he gets nothing.
This approach gives the impression he is only there to "help". It's
possible that Singer does not ask up front for anything but lets the
mark "tip" him for the knowledge. Singer's system requires cashing
out small wins along the way, this may be "all" he asks for. Or, he
could ask for up to half of the winnings. Singer may also be working
with the casino slot director where he meets the mark and receive a
kickback for all the play on top of the normal cashback and comps.
C) A multi-level video poker progression using high variance VP games
will win around 75% of the time during an "education session". It is
well known (and has been mathematically proven) that over time a
progression of this type will NOT win any more or less money that a
non-progressive approach. What it does is trade-off more session wins
for a few larger losses. If the win occurs early then Singer might
even convince the mark to go through another session since he didn't
have time to teach him many of the special plays. He may convince
some marks to go through 3-4 sessions in one weekend. The average
win, starting the progression at the dollar level, should be close to
$6K. The average coin-in should be between $50K-$100K. This will
generate an average payday for Singer of around $3,000 each time a
session is won (comps not included) if he asks for half the winnings.
Naturally, if the session is a bust, He loses nothing and makes a
little off the cashback and comps.
D) Singer then feeds this money into a carefully planned win/loss
record that he keeps for IRS reasons and as proof of success. With
only 50 "education sessions" a year he's looking at over $100K of
income. He probably keeps this money until some future gambling trip.
When he returns from this trip he banks the money and claims yet
another successful session. He writes about the session to provide
even more advertising to attrack more marks. He pays taxes on the
winnings to make it look completely legit. His gambling trips may
actually be scheduled around more "education sessions".

Now, for the evidence that supports this scenario.

1) Singer continually bashes VP players in general. He has called
them many names. Here's one from April 30,2004 on the freevpfree
forum: "most people who play video poker are overweight, they on
average drink much more than others, their income level is far below
the norm, and their levels of discipline, determination & self-
confidence are severely lacking." This clear disrespect for other VP
players is directly opposed to what a person would have if they
really wanted to help others. On the other hand, this attitude
correlates nicely with someone who would have no moral objection to
conning them out of their money.

2) Singer constantly bashes those who explain the facts about video
poker. This is an approach taken by con men all the time. In order to
have people accept his view he states that the "experts" are the ones
preying on them. This "the establishment is after your money"
approach is a tried and true method for attracting marks. We all know
there are lots of people who believe many of the gambling myths. They
can be easily swayed by someone who feeds into their beliefs.

3) Singer claims vast winnings but has no real proof of those
winnings. He will not allow others watch him play. As I've shown
above he could very easily have collected money from his marks and
made it appear as money he has won. In fact, when a mark hits a w2g
jackpot, Singer could take the w2g himself (they are using his
player's card) and use it as evidence of his claimed winnings. His
claims of success using negative payback machines fall into the .01%
probability range whereas conning the same amount of money using the
method I described above is almost a sure thing.

4) The gambling system Singer uses is extremely complex and lacks
precise definition in many ways. This is exactly what one would
expect from a con. The system has multiple levels and levels within
levels. The system requires taking money out of a machine at certain
times when this accomplishes nothing. A progression can run for a
long time with several small wins along the way that reset the
progression back to previous levels. This provides the unwary mark a
belief that the "system" is working. Finally, with a 75% chance of
winning a session it produces "proof" to the majority of marks that
his system works. This is exactly what is needed to make the con
profitable. When the mark finally starts losing after he gets home he
will be embarrassed and tend to shy away from admitting he was
suckered.

5) Singer's system claims some 1700+ special plays. However, when ask
to describe them he refuses. If he's really trying to help others as
he claims, why would he refuse? It can be easily shown that every one
of the special plays reduces the payback of the VP game being used.
However, they do slightly increase the liklihood that a mark might
hit a big hand during one of the "education sessions" I described
above. This is exactly what a con man would want. In addition, there
is no way a mark could possibly remember even a small portion of
these plays. This gives Singer an "out" if someone comes back to him
after losing. All Singer says is you must not have applied the
special plays correctly. He may even convince the mark that he needs
another "education session".

6) Singer receives no payment for his GT column. He even brags that
this demonstrates his good will. However, as shown above we already
know Singer has extreme disdain for all VP players. So, why would he
spend his time helping those he obviously hates? Not too likely is
it. OTOH, if this column provides him with a constant flow of new
marks then he has no motive to get paid for the column itself and GT
is much more likely to keep him on if it doesn't cost them a cent.

7) Singer's website provides for absolutely NO feedback by those who
have tried his system. You'd think someone who is helping others
would provide a means to have their comments passed on to others. In
fact, someone who had nothing to hide would probably provide a forum
similar to VPFree to provide feedback.

8) Singer avoids claiming anyone else will actually win with his
system over time. He is very careful to state only that he wins.
You'd think if winning were as easy as he claims it is for him, and
he has helped many others, that he would have no problem stating that
others will also win. What Singer does claim is that people who use
his system are "more likely to win today". This is true of any
progression but does not lead to any better long term results. Why
would anyone out to help others provide only the half of the story
that would make them more likely to seek out "help" while ignoring
the half that demonstrates it's a waste of time.

9) Singer claims that his system works just as well on negative
payback machines and there is no need to seek out high payback
machines. The fact is that very few high denomination machines exist
anymore that are positive. In order to garner the most money from his
marks a con man does not want them playing nickel or quarter
machines. He wants them paying high denom machines. Clearly, someone
who is truly there to help would want them to seek out the very best
machines whereas a con man would want them on the highest denom
machines possible. This also feeds into the possibility that Singer
might be getting back money from the casinos where he plays. What
casino wouldn't want players using negative special plays on negative
high denomination machines.

10) Finally (you thought it would never come), Singer posts to forums
(where VP players might be lurking) whereever he can find them. He
always promotes his system and bashes anyone who provides factual
information. More often than not he is met with several posters who
understand that he is lying. Why would anyone constantly put
themselves into a position where they are likely to receive lots of
abuse (like LVASports)? When you consider that a few lurkers might
contact him and sign up for one of his "education sessions" it makes
much more sense. He would most likely continue to post as long as he
can find new marks.

Personally, I have little doubt what I've stated here is fairly
accurate. This is a very good con. It's not difficult at all to see
how people without a good grasp of mathematics could fall into this
trap. I'm also sure Rob will deny it all.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

On 31 Aug 2007 at 18:11, rgmustain wrote:

Interesting theory.

Are you aware of any corroboration from any "mark" who
has done (or had an agreement to do) any "educational
session" profit sharing or tipping, or has used Rob's
player's card during a session?

Thanks,

vpFae

···

On 31 Aug 2007 at 20:54, rgmustain wrote:

Personally, I have little doubt what I've stated here is fairly
accurate. This is a very good con. It's not difficult at all to see
how people without a good grasp of mathematics could fall into this
trap. I'm also sure Rob will deny it all.

Yes, no, no, yes.

The session was a loss.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

On 31 Aug 2007 at 20:54, rgmustain wrote:

> Personally, I have little doubt what I've stated here is fairly
> accurate. This is a very good con. It's not difficult at all to see
> how people without a good grasp of mathematics could fall into this
> trap. I'm also sure Rob will deny it all.

Interesting theory.

Are you aware of any corroboration from any "mark" who
has done (or had an agreement to do) any "educational
session" profit sharing or tipping, or has used Rob's
player's card during a session?

> > Personally, I have little doubt what I've stated here is fairly
> > accurate. This is a very good con. It's not difficult at all to

see

> > how people without a good grasp of mathematics could fall into

this

> > trap. I'm also sure Rob will deny it all.

Very Interesting!! It reminds me of something I observed many yers
ago. I first started reading the Las Vegas Review-Journal in 1992.
In every section of the paper there were little box adds that
advertised "WIN $250,000 PER YEAR PLAYING CRAPS." Beneath the
headline was a phone number.

I thought, sure you could win $250,000 worth of bets at craps but the
amount of bets you lost would outrun that. Betting the pass or don't
pass with free odds at 100x you would lose $250,500 worth of bets for
a net loss of $500. With no free odds you would lose $253,500 worth
of bets for a net loss of $3500.

So the adds didn't lie but were highly deceptive. These adds went on
for years.

Then one day some RJ journalist did an expose on the guy who ran the
adds. His MO was to qualify whomever called him for bankroll,
explain to them that he didn't charge them up front, but rather would
just take a percentage of their winnings for the first hour. He
would set up an "education session", to use your terminology. He
always met his "clients" close to the crap tables in one of the major
casinos, a very safe setting for the mark. The article did not
divulge the betting system being used.

The math is that there will be a certain percentage of his "clients"
that are ahead after one hour of play. Absoluty brilliant on this
hustlers part.

The adds disappeared maybe 6 or seven years ago. But someone told me
that the same kinds of adds ran in Atlantic City for years.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...>
wrote:

Very Interesting!! It reminds me of something I observed many yers
ago. I first started reading the Las Vegas Review-Journal in

1992.

In every section of the paper there were little box adds that
advertised "WIN $250,000 PER YEAR PLAYING CRAPS." Beneath the
headline was a phone number.

I thought, sure you could win $250,000 worth of bets at craps but

the

amount of bets you lost would outrun that. Betting the pass or

don't

pass with free odds at 100x you would lose $250,500 worth of bets

for

a net loss of $500. With no free odds you would lose $253,500

worth

of bets for a net loss of $3500.

So the adds didn't lie but were highly deceptive. These adds went

on

for years.

Then one day some RJ journalist did an expose on the guy who ran

the

adds. His MO was to qualify whomever called him for bankroll,
explain to them that he didn't charge them up front, but rather

would

just take a percentage of their winnings for the first hour. He
would set up an "education session", to use your terminology. He
always met his "clients" close to the crap tables in one of the

major

casinos, a very safe setting for the mark. The article did not
divulge the betting system being used.

The math is that there will be a certain percentage of

his "clients"

that are ahead after one hour of play. Absoluty brilliant on this
hustlers part.

The adds disappeared maybe 6 or seven years ago. But someone told

me

that the same kinds of adds ran in Atlantic City for years.

Who's to know. Maybe Rob tried this out and that got him thinking
about ways to do the same thing at VP.

"vpFae" wrote:

> Are you aware of any corroboration from any "mark" who
> has done (or had an agreement to do) any "educational
> session" profit sharing or tipping, or has used Rob's
> player's card during a session?

rgmustain replied :

Yes, no, no, yes.

The session was a loss.

Dick

Is this correct:

Yes - You do know of (only) one mark who did an educational
session that showed a loss..

No - Did not profit share or have an agreement to profit share.

No - Did not tip or have an agreement to tip.

Yes - Used Rob's card during the session.

Thanks,

vpFae

Yes, sorry for the cryptic answer, I was running late ...

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

Is this correct:

Yes - You do know of (only) one mark who did an educational
session that showed a loss..

No - Did not profit share or have an agreement to profit share.

No - Did not tip or have an agreement to tip.

Yes - Used Rob's card during the session.

Ok, let's give some of the lonely old people--such as my
friend "Dick" - something to continue to live for. Let's liven up
this dead and misled sub-forum if only for a day or two. Let's tell
the truth instead of re-reading his made-up scenario of me that he is
so neurotic about. I can honestly say no one person in my life has
ever been so obsessed over and envious of me at the same time! He's a
walking conflict.

First, the past few days up until I ended it yesterday, the vp-guru
wannabee and I have been trading e-mails with the main theme
being "Dick, when we gonna meet so I can do what you've asked me to
do for years--esplain my strategy so you can finally understand what
you're criticizing, and I'll detail the over 1700 special plays that
deviate from expert strategy that you have little to no idea what
they're about"? His response? He can't, he won't, he's afraid, he's
too timid, he doesn't want me to see how out-of-shape he is...any
excuse in the book. He kinda approached all this as he has the
multiple bets and challenges I've tried to get him to confirm in the
past--at the last minute he escapes while twisting in some weasel-out
excuse that makes him feel like he's doing the right thing.

1. (and it gets even more corny as we count them down): I'm accused
of running a con, and even Mickey Crimm--who has shown some sort of
intelligence in the past when it comes to what I'm doing--is buying
into Dick's theory. From what I read, I'm supposed to be taking a cut
of the profits from winners (now THEY win but I supposedly do not)
and all these players are playing high enough limits that I make over
$100k/yr. No wonder Dick's jealous if he believes that BS.

2. I use other people's player's cards for the points when I'm
teaching them. BZZZZT - Wrong again. I've done that once in Nv.--
with a broken down chubby little guy who has no right playing vp
because he doesn't have the money, and it was because he had no card
where I was training him. He goes by the handle oej719 on vp.com, and
he's got Dick (shadowman over there) bamboozled on every lie he tells
about me. But of course Dick enjoys it because it fits into his
fantasy of him being better than me.

4. Dick says I'm "bankrupt" and I like to talk about my "wealth".
Well, my gambling bankroll has been a steady $171,600 since 1999,
I've won a documented $793,000 with my play strategies since dumping
the optimal-play nonsense--all of which I have given to or spent on
my children, I have a home here in Az. and I have one in Hawaii that
I lease out, I keep an apartment for my son's family in Phoenix
because he's in Afghanistan and his wife & my grandson can be closer
to us until he finally gets back, thanks to the Great GWB's
unequalled Donestic Policies my savings plans have grown more than I
ever expected over the past 7 years, my wife works and also provides
the health ins. as well as keeps her own 401k, and I live a
comfortable life with my wife and nearby our children and
grandchildren. Now compare that to what Bob Dancer and some of the
other big shots you've read about have been claiming and ask yourself
if I'm really wealthy - or am I just normal for my age. And
bankrupt? These critics run with that ever since they locate it on
the Internet or remember reading it as disclosed by me on my original
vptruth forum before my current site went up in 2000. I filed in 1996
because I got involved in a bad investment. It was also at the tail
end of my losing $250,000 playing long-term strategy. Chapter 7 back
then was a great tool. It wiped out the investment loan as well as
all my credit card debt, so I really made almost $30k on the deal.
And my home & 401k were immune from the creditors.

5. BTW--I'm still waiting for any or all of you high-rolling winners
to accept my challenge that I can absolutely prove I have won $793k
to date. Why waffle over it? I'll even pay for an arbitrator who's
decision will be final & binding if there's any doubt or question
when all the documentation is provided. Have you ever seen any of the
so-called "AP's" who keep saying they're winners "every year we've
played" publish such a challenge as I have in the paper or even say
it on a forum where they can safely hide behind their computers when
saying it?

6. Do I bash vp players as Dick says I do? Certainly. They get the
truth from me from all angles. Most of them don't have the money to
play because they have no bankroll to play with other than family
money, many of them are smokers who just don't get that they'll more
than likely die a slow, excruciating, humiliating death in front of
those who loved them, many players drink too much, and sooo many oif
them are either overweight or downright obese that it's not funny
anymore. But when I train players it's not only in vp. I help them
understand how to be involved in healthy activities other than
sitting at machines all day and night, and I teach them self-respect.
And it's all FREE! Try getting that from anyone anywhere period.

Dick comes across as someone who wants all posters to respect him or
else he'll argue with them neurotically--esp. is they say anything
that challenges his beliefs. He's & his missus are vp addicts who
moved to LV so they could be closer to the machines. From my
discuaaion with him the past few says, he believes it's far better to
be sitting at machines 20 hours a week than to help his children and
grandchildren live a better live. He calls babysitting and
support "meddling" & "interference". Yet the hypocracy of it all
shows his wife being sick with lupus and other debilitating diseases
yet he shows no mercy and still makes her sit for hours at the
machines instead of going to visit their son. I will be saying a
prayer for that family this Sunday.

So let's see the kook inputs now. Here's your platform. Oh, for those
who want to win money betting NFL sides & totals this year, visit my
site for my FREE picks each week. I beat just about everyone with
documented picks on LVA Sports last season and they kicked me off
this year because of it. Dick will say it was for another reason, but
all he did was follow me over there as he always does just to whine
and complain about my what to him is "fame".

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae" <vpFae@...> wrote:

"vpFae" wrote:

> > Are you aware of any corroboration from any "mark" who
> > has done (or had an agreement to do) any "educational
> > session" profit sharing or tipping, or has used Rob's
> > player's card during a session?

rgmustain replied :

> Yes, no, no, yes.

> The session was a loss.

> Dick

Is this correct:

Yes - You do know of (only) one mark who did an educational
session that showed a loss..

No - Did not profit share or have an agreement to profit share.

No - Did not tip or have an agreement to tip.

Yes - Used Rob's card during the session.

Thanks,

vpFae

Hey all--
   
  Before I get "banned" from another forum for telling the truth about video poker and not kissing the feet of the misled math people.....here's some more open information, and I know there's a whole lot more than 354 people reading this based on the e-mails I constantly get.
   
  Get this through your heads: The machines are legally programmed to run in hot and cold cycles--albeit very rarely because it's only on an as-needed basis as the hold gets too close to the state-mandated min/max hold percentage. It is absolutely allowed and required by the Nv. Gaming Regulations, and anyone who doesn't want that or believe that to be true is only playing with their own fire when they sit at a machine that's just not paying over a considerable period of time. I've had this told to me by a software engineer at a gaming manufacturer, I've signed an NDA not to publish that info again in any publication, and every player knows this to be true from experience. what's entertaining is in how those who say they play hours every day still reject it--I guess addiction trumps all realization.
   
  Here's more. For those who STILL want to believe I don't win as I say I do, I'll put up a challenge right now for $60,000 that I will win at least $2500 in a session where I play my single play strategy (through $100 if necessary) and I will pay the challenger 2:1 if I lose. Just send me an e-mail at rsinger1111@cox.net or rob_singer@qwest.net then submit your funds to Maryann Guberman or Howard Schwarz @ Gamblers Bookshop for escrow and I will do the same with $120k. I will play the session thru $25 at the Aquarius in Laughlin, and the $100 if necessary, at Bellagio. Now we know my friend Dick will come on and say I have the advantage because i have at least a 3:1 chance of attaining my goal, but he IS the master of sneaking out thru loopholes is he not. Besides, he says I lose most of the time and he even says I don't play, so who wants to step up to the plate, get total Gaming Today coverage in the process, and see if you can make me squeal like a pig!
   
  Let's go hot shots. You can pool your money together--any way you want it. Just be ready to cry.....

···

---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Truth"

Singer, Sptember, 2005, here:

"Manners? Ha! Who cares about THAT?! Most video poker
players are
slobs and low-class fools who don't know how to dress,
drive
shitboxes for cars, are really of no added value to
society. Thank
goodness for me."

Banned for "telling the truth":

http://www.videopoker.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=499

If you've got a thousand or so hours to waste, try to
negotiate something with 'Singer'.

···

--- Rob Singer <robsinger1111@yahoo.com> wrote:

  Hey all--
   
  Before I get "banned" from another forum for
. . . kissing

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/

Now what were the odds of meldrone following me around on the strings of Dick? Hey Melly--I'm actually proud of "The Best of Babybubba"!
   
  BTW--I just saw where your hero Nancy Pelosi's congress is now at a 19%!!!!!! approval rating----lower than the previous lowest number in history. And get ready for another Republican to roll into office next year. They act like professionals, they debate professionals, and they aren't confused like Democrats who are always flip-flopping with the flow of the polls.
   
  God Bless America & The Great GWB!
   
  Oh, football season's here--that means the Singer five's back! From the hits in the past 2 days I'd say 98% of Fezziksplace took a peak.

  "Truth"

Singer, Sptember, 2005, here:

"Manners? Ha! Who cares about THAT?! Most video poker
players are
slobs and low-class fools who don't know how to dress,
drive
shitboxes for cars, are really of no added value to
society. Thank
goodness for me."

Banned for "telling the truth":

http://www.videopoker.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=499

If you've got a thousand or so hours to waste, try to
negotiate something with 'Singer'.

--- Rob Singer wrote:

···

jim thompson <meldrone@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hey all--

Before I get "banned" from another forum for
. . . kissing

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

---------------------------------
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, you're sure proud of being quoted exactly. Let's
see what Helen has to say about your astute
cleverness:

http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/19980973666.pdf

That's not Nancy Pelosi's congress. It's the congress
of Senator Craig and Representative Foley, whom you
spent all that time in Arizona with.

Now what were the odds of meldrone following me
around on the strings of Dick? Hey Melly--I'm
actually proud of "The Best of Babybubba"!
   
  BTW--I just saw where your hero Nancy Pelosi's
congress is now at a 19%!!!!!! approval
rating----lower than the previous lowest number in
history. And get ready for another Republican to
roll into office next year. They act like
professionals, they debate professionals, and they
aren't confused like Democrats who are always
flip-flopping with the flow of the polls.
   
  God Bless America & The Great GWB!
   
  Oh, football season's here--that means the Singer
five's back! From the hits in the past 2 days I'd
say 98% of Fezziksplace took a peak.

  "Truth"

Singer, Sptember, 2005, here:

"Manners? Ha! Who cares about THAT?! Most video
poker
players are
slobs and low-class fools who don't know how to
dress,
drive
shitboxes for cars, are really of no added value to
society. Thank
goodness for me."

Banned for "telling the truth":

http://www.videopoker.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=499

···

--- Rob Singer <robsinger1111@yahoo.com> wrote:

jim thompson <meldrone@yahoo.com> wrote:

If you've got a thousand or so hours to waste, try
to
negotiate something with 'Singer'.

--- Rob Singer wrote:

> Hey all--
>
> Before I get "banned" from another forum for
> . . . kissing

____________________________________________________________________________________

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[Non-text portions of this message have been
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I know I get to you Melly when keep on bringing up the same old news
I've had on my site for many years.....

Remember how proud you were when the expert tandem of Pelosi/Reid took
office as "The Great Democratic Hope"? Liberal extremists and
defeatists like you were all over it. Hahaha!--WHERE ARE YOU NOW??
Maybe you'd be better off on Tim Robbins' fan club listing. There's
another who looks dumb and stupid every time he gives out inaccurate
flames as a Bush & America-hater. Face it, the days are numbered for
you sissified types. Can't you just FEEL it in the American air these
days!!

Another strong anti-terror leader is on the way in the form of a
Republican. Besides, who wants to see another Democratic weakling in
the Oval Office during a time when the Republicans are getting
somewhere with N. Korea? We certainly do not want to take giant steps
back and end up in the Clinton years where nothing got done but
adultery now, do we? His immorality and idiocy led to OBL escaping and
the build-up in N. Korea.

Let's talk economy. How's the liberal wussies up in the bath-house area
where you live handling our great economy these days? How's your 401k
doing---that is, if you have one? God Bless the Great GWB on that one,
right? I mean, if a Democrat were in office, my and many true
Americans' Savings Plans wouldn't have doubled and tripled or more in
recent years. Or are you too busy giving Democratic-induced handouts to
all the bums and degenerate low life beggars in the streets of SF?
Maybe you're passing out cigarettes to the homeless or handing out free
twinkies to fat people. That's the liberal platform. Thank God the
Conservative platform is trying to protect us while growing the economy
to unprecedented heights and is succeeding.

Now lets talk sports betting. All you jealous fools over on LVA Sports
got blindsided by my successful NBA picks last season. So they ban me
from showing all you so-called "experts" up this season--at least on
Anthony Curtis's own site. I love it! All these end-all big deal sports
bettors bested by me, and I'm the only one who had the balls enough to
post every play every week. Shown up and embarrassed by a vp
professional! I know you're playing my picks this week--you've already
been there twice. Too bad you have to work all day or else you could
read vptruth.com all day.

I hope you get in from work early enough tonight so I have time to tap
on your grapes some more, but I'm off this forum by midnight so please
don't waste your night listening to Air America--the failed Liberal
weenie network. Or maybe you're gonna go over to that Indian casino and
sit with a bunch of fat-ass, smoking, "advantage play" video poker
players and watch all of America's self-respect wither away.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, jim thompson <meldrone@...> wrote:

Yeah, you're sure proud of being quoted exactly. Let's
see what Helen has to say about your astute
cleverness:

http://156.42.40.50/UnOfficialDocs/pdf/19980973666.pdf

That's not Nancy Pelosi's congress. It's the congress
of Senator Craig and Representative Foley, whom you
spent all that time in Arizona with.

Same old Rob, lies, lies and more lies. See below for details.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "robsinger1111"
<robsinger1111@...> wrote:

Ok, let's give some of the lonely old people--such as my
friend "Dick" - something to continue to live for. Let's liven up
this dead and misled sub-forum if only for a day or two. Let's tell
the truth instead of re-reading his made-up scenario of me that he

is

so neurotic about. I can honestly say no one person in my life has
ever been so obsessed over and envious of me at the same time! He's

a

walking conflict.

First, the past few days up until I ended it yesterday, the vp-guru
wannabee and I have been trading e-mails with the main theme
being "Dick, when we gonna meet so I can do what you've asked me to
do for years--esplain my strategy so you can finally understand

what

you're criticizing, and I'll detail the over 1700 special plays

that

deviate from expert strategy that you have little to no idea what
they're about"? His response? He can't, he won't, he's afraid, he's
too timid, he doesn't want me to see how out-of-shape he is...any
excuse in the book.

I told Rob was where he could find me 4 days a week. In addition, I
NEVER asked Rob to detail any of his special plays. I already know
they're all BS designed specifically to sucker people into his con.
That makes at least two lies in this one paragraph alone.

He kinda approached all this as he has the
multiple bets and challenges I've tried to get him to confirm in

the

past--at the last minute he escapes while twisting in some weasel-

out

excuse that makes him feel like he's doing the right thing.

1. (and it gets even more corny as we count them down): I'm accused
of running a con, and even Mickey Crimm--who has shown some sort of
intelligence in the past when it comes to what I'm doing--is buying
into Dick's theory. From what I read, I'm supposed to be taking a

cut

of the profits from winners (now THEY win but I supposedly do not)
and all these players are playing high enough limits that I make

over

$100k/yr. No wonder Dick's jealous if he believes that BS.

Denial. Rob's biggest asset. Too bad the facts don't support him.

2. I use other people's player's cards for the points when I'm
teaching them. BZZZZT - Wrong again. I've done that once in Nv.--
with a broken down chubby little guy who has no right playing vp
because he doesn't have the money, and it was because he had no

card

where I was training him. He goes by the handle oej719 on vp.com,

and

he's got Dick (shadowman over there) bamboozled on every lie he

tells

about me. But of course Dick enjoys it because it fits into his
fantasy of him being better than me.

I've only talked to ONE person who Rob has taught and he stated Rob
insisted on using Rob's players card. I wonder what the odds are that
he would be the ONLY one. Yeah, right. I think we can add this to the
list of lies.

4. Dick says I'm "bankrupt" and I like to talk about my "wealth".

That's a lie. I never said you were bankrupt. I stated you've been
through bankrupcy. I realize your wife has a good job now and your
con also brings in some money.

Well, my gambling bankroll has been a steady $171,600 since 1999,
I've won a documented $793,000 with my play strategies since

dumping

the optimal-play nonsense--all of which I have given to or spent on
my children, I have a home here in Az. and I have one in Hawaii

that

I lease out, I keep an apartment for my son's family in Phoenix
because he's in Afghanistan and his wife & my grandson can be

closer

to us until he finally gets back, thanks to the Great GWB's
unequalled Donestic Policies my savings plans have grown more than

I

ever expected over the past 7 years, my wife works and also

provides

the health ins. as well as keeps her own 401k, and I live a
comfortable life with my wife and nearby our children and
grandchildren. Now compare that to what Bob Dancer and some of the
other big shots you've read about have been claiming and ask

yourself

if I'm really wealthy - or am I just normal for my age. And
bankrupt? These critics run with that ever since they locate it on
the Internet or remember reading it as disclosed by me on my

original

vptruth forum before my current site went up in 2000. I filed in

1996

because I got involved in a bad investment. It was also at the tail
end of my losing $250,000 playing long-term strategy. Chapter 7

back

then was a great tool. It wiped out the investment loan as well as
all my credit card debt, so I really made almost $30k on the deal.
And my home & 401k were immune from the creditors.

So, what you're saying is I'm absolutely correct. Amazing.

5. BTW--I'm still waiting for any or all of you high-rolling

winners

to accept my challenge that I can absolutely prove I have won $793k
to date. Why waffle over it? I'll even pay for an arbitrator who's
decision will be final & binding if there's any doubt or question
when all the documentation is provided. Have you ever seen any of

the

so-called "AP's" who keep saying they're winners "every year we've
played" publish such a challenge as I have in the paper or even say
it on a forum where they can safely hide behind their computers

when

saying it?

Sorry, but unless you can prove the money did NOT come from your con
then you have nothing to stand on. Deposits after accepting money
teaching your system is a much more likely scenario than your winning.

6. Do I bash vp players as Dick says I do? Certainly. They get the
truth from me from all angles. Most of them don't have the money to
play because they have no bankroll to play with other than family
money, many of them are smokers who just don't get that they'll

more

than likely die a slow, excruciating, humiliating death in front of
those who loved them, many players drink too much, and sooo many

oif

them are either overweight or downright obese that it's not funny
anymore. But when I train players it's not only in vp. I help them
understand how to be involved in healthy activities other than
sitting at machines all day and night, and I teach them self-

respect.

And it's all FREE! Try getting that from anyone anywhere period.

More lies. You can see from his first statements that Rob hates all
VP players. The only reason he "teaches" them is to take their money.

Dick comes across as someone who wants all posters to respect him

or

else he'll argue with them neurotically--esp. is they say anything
that challenges his beliefs.

Beliefs have nothing to do with anything. Just as I've always done I
debate the FACTs of the issue. Always have, always will.

He's & his missus are vp addicts who
moved to LV so they could be closer to the machines. From my
discuaaion with him the past few says, he believes it's far better

to

be sitting at machines 20 hours a week than to help his children

and

grandchildren live a better live. He calls babysitting and
support "meddling" & "interference".

Another lie. I never said babby sitting itself was either one.
However, that's not the end of it. You feel like you must control
their lives just like everything else you touch. I really feel sorry
for your kids who have had to deal with you their entire lives.

Yet the hypocracy of it all
shows his wife being sick with lupus and other debilitating

diseases

yet he shows no mercy and still makes her sit for hours at the
machines instead of going to visit their son. I will be saying a
prayer for that family this Sunday.

Rob, you are posting private information that I shared with you. By
disclosing it here you are showing your true colors to everyone.
Disgusting!

Now, if you were interested in posting the facts, you would have
stated that the reason she likes to play VP is because so many other
activities are unavailabe to her since she cannot be in the sun.
Therefore, she has found VP to be a wonderful outlet for her when she
has so few other options.

So let's see the kook inputs now. Here's your platform.

Just the facts, as always.

Dick

PS. Looks like were in for more of Singer's BS until he decides he
has, once again, looked foolish and runs off to some other forum with
his tail between his legs. He's done it 3 times already, why should
this time be any different.

Sorry, but unless you can prove the money did NOT come from your con
then you have nothing to stand on. Deposits after accepting money
teaching your system is a much more likely scenario than your winning.

You must know you lost whatever credibility you thought you had with
this moronic statement. I'm gonna produce proof of earning $793,000
from scraping a % of EXACTLY HOW MUCH from the people I "con"? These
must be some super-duper high rollers, don'tcha think? What a goofball.

Rob, you are posting private information that I shared with you. By
disclosing it here you are showing your true colors to everyone.
Disgusting!

Yeah right. You lie about whatever you can come up with about me, you
rant about how us helping out our son's wife and baby daily while he's
in Afghanistan as well as helping our daughter her husband & their two
little kids is "interference" and now "controlling them"---yet you
don't have the stones to take the truth about the despicable way you
treat your own wife. There's a whole lotta other respectable ways to
keep your wife busy and out of the sun besides running her into the
casinos for a fix, only you can't and won't do it because you're so
pulled to the machines all the time. Thank you for showing us all
what's more important to you. No wonder you lie so much. If ever there
were a candidate for Gamblers Anonymous, it is you.

Hey MELDRONE: How'd you do with that NYG +7 pick--or how'd your so-
called "pro sports bettors" and their NYG +7.5 +EV betting go today??
Next week stick with my picks. After Mon. night I'll likely be 4-1 or 5-
0.

Now I gotta go study up for next week's Singer Five....and I'm gone
from here for another year or two! Maybe even until the next great
Republican President ONCE AGAIN is elected into office by the true
American public.

God Bless The Great GWB--The Father In The World's Fight Against
Terrorism.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "robsinger1111"
<robsinger1111@...> wrote:

> Sorry, but unless you can prove the money did NOT come from your

con

> then you have nothing to stand on. Deposits after accepting money
> teaching your system is a much more likely scenario than your

winning.

You must know you lost whatever credibility you thought you had

with

this moronic statement. I'm gonna produce proof of earning $793,000
from scraping a % of EXACTLY HOW MUCH from the people I "con"?

These

must be some super-duper high rollers, don'tcha think? What a

goofball.

Your denials are worthless. Just like the rest of your claims. It
doesn't take anything more than a moderate player to generate lot's
of income. With a 75% chance of a session win most of your education
sessions will be winners. Since your marks incur all the losses it's
easy to see where you could make large profits.

> Rob, you are posting private information that I shared with you.

By

> disclosing it here you are showing your true colors to everyone.
> Disgusting!

Yeah right. You lie about whatever you can come up with about me,

you

rant about how us helping out our son's wife and baby daily while

he's

in Afghanistan as well as helping our daughter her husband & their

two

little kids is "interference" and now "controlling them"---yet you
don't have the stones to take the truth about the despicable way

you

treat your own wife. There's a whole lotta other respectable ways

to

keep your wife busy and out of the sun besides running her into the
casinos for a fix, only you can't and won't do it because you're so
pulled to the machines all the time. Thank you for showing us all
what's more important to you. No wonder you lie so much. If ever

there

were a candidate for Gamblers Anonymous, it is you.

It looks like I sure hit some sore spots. Yes, you are controlling.
Yes, you are an addict and not everyone else is. If you weren't so
defensive people might consider some of these comments. But the old
saying applies here ... "he who excuses ... accuses himself". I think
this pretty much describes your life.

Dick: I would just like to say something here. After seeing talk about
the Singer Strategy and all the controversy I went to the VPtruth
website and checked it out.
First of all I want you to know that I am a VPfree member and I am not
part of the Rob Singer controversy. I am not familiar with what is
going on between the 2 of you. And by no means am I being encouraged to
post this by ANYONE.
After I did check out Rob's site(which I found interesting), I emailed
Rob with some questions, he has alway responded promptly with advice or
answers. I am open minded enough to look at the other's views on things
beyond the typical AP strategies. Rob even offered to send me his book
at no charge, which I accepted and it showed up promptly at my home.
Rob has never asked for a dime from me, but has alway taken the time to
answer questions without asking for anything in return. Now I am not
saying the Singer System is or isn't for me. But what I am saying is
that you keep referring to Rob as a con. A con that doesnt ask for
anything in return, doesnt sound like a con to me. Bob

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "robsinger1111"
<robsinger1111@> wrote:
> > Sorry, but unless you can prove the money did NOT come from your
con
> > then you have nothing to stand on. Deposits after accepting money
> > teaching your system is a much more likely scenario than your
winning.
>

>
> --- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "robsinger1111"
> <robsinger1111@> wrote:
> > > Sorry, but unless you can prove the money did NOT come from

your

> con
> > > then you have nothing to stand on. Deposits after accepting

money

> > > teaching your system is a much more likely scenario than your
> winning.
> >

Dick: I would just like to say something here. After seeing talk

about

the Singer Strategy and all the controversy I went to the VPtruth
website and checked it out.
First of all I want you to know that I am a VPfree member and I am

not

part of the Rob Singer controversy. I am not familiar with what is
going on between the 2 of you. And by no means am I being

encouraged to

post this by ANYONE.
After I did check out Rob's site(which I found interesting), I

emailed

Rob with some questions, he has alway responded promptly with

advice or

answers. I am open minded enough to look at the other's views on

things

beyond the typical AP strategies. Rob even offered to send me his

book

at no charge, which I accepted and it showed up promptly at my

home.

Rob has never asked for a dime from me, but has alway taken the

time to

answer questions without asking for anything in return. Now I am

not

saying the Singer System is or isn't for me. But what I am saying

is

that you keep referring to Rob as a con. A con that doesnt ask for
anything in return, doesnt sound like a con to me. Bob

I'm sure Dick will be along shortly, but maybe the following will
help. Con-men (like Rob) absolutely love open-minded persons like
yourself, but I sense you are not convinced from reading his posts on
this forum that he is the scum of the earth.

Try this: arrange a training session with him. Of course you'll
want to insist on using your own card and be upfront that you will
not be tipping him (Rob abhors tipping) or giving him a percentage of
your win. And surely you will want to see him perform a
demonstration using his own money. Afterall, he's got plenty of
money and is a prohibitive favorite to have even more after one of
his sessions. Perhaps he will even share some of his winnings with
you as a gesture of goodwill.

These are all reasonable requests for anyone but a con-man.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby G" <Concretbob@...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@> wrote: