vpFREE2 Forums

Sharing Info On Good VP...Resent

#1

Howdy

I consider myself a decent and considerate fellow..BUT sometimes you have to
draw the line at the risk of being foolish.

Let's say you find a great little restaurant and you tell everyone you know
about it. Next thing you know you cannot get near the place. In retrospect
would you have been a walking advertisement.?..I think not unless you are
destined for sainthood.

The analogy IMHO applies to the good clandestine VP's sequestered in a
remote spot on the casino floor.

Let's get real people! Would you really share your little treasure secret if
there were but a very few goodies waiting to be fleeced?

Grumpy

**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

The analogy IMHO applies to the good clandestine VP's sequestered

in a

remote spot on the casino floor.

Let's get real people! Would you really share your little treasure

secret if

there were but a very few goodies waiting to be fleeced?

Grumpy

Of course:

1. The casino put those machines on the floor to be played.
Therefore, if I increase play on those machines by spreading word of
their existence, I benefit the casino.

2. If I inform others of good plays, I benefit those others.

3. If I make the logical assumption that others will reciprocate,
then I benefit myself.

This is obvious. It all comes down to how you want to live--
cooperatively, or skulking, alone, and secretive, like Bob the Boob?

#3

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

1. The casino put those machines on the floor to be played.
Therefore, if I increase play on those machines by spreading word of
their existence, I benefit the casino.

2. If I inform others of good plays, I benefit those others.

3. If I make the logical assumption that others will reciprocate,
then I benefit myself.

This is obvious. It all comes down to how you want to live--
cooperatively, or skulking, alone, and secretive, like Bob the Boob?

So, please explain how I was helped when the $FPDW I had played for a
month at ACD was outed on VPfree. It disappeared in a couple of days.

Once again your logic is flawed. First, 1. assumes that the paytable is
not a MISTAKE. Second, although 2. may be correct as it applies to
others, it could easily hurt me when I can't get a seat at the machines
(which occurred at ACD). And, finally, 3. is not "logical" and may
never come to pass.

I guess that means you are 0-3, don't make baseball your day job. Oh,
and guess what, I'm not telling you anything about the next month's
108% play.

Dick

PS. Looks like Bob and I are in agreement once again. This is getting
scary.

#4

> and guess what, I'm not telling you anything about the next month's
108% play.

Dick

PS. Looks like Bob and I are in agreement once again. This is getting
scary.

I'm jumping in here. I play locally in midwest. Altho retired still
working some & traveling quite a bit. I figure I played about 40+
casinos in 07 from New York to Ca. Minn. to Miss. When I'm going out,
& know I'll be in Casino territory(which covers pretty much the entire
US these days), I always check the data page. This helps me a bunch.
I'm not looking for any "secret" plays or something that's gonna get me
108%. But I want to know what to expect and the best places to visit.
I'm going to Detroit in a week and plan to stop in Indiana on my way
home Friday nite. I've used this site to plan where I'll play.

For those monitors that keep things up-to-date...Thank you much.
I say. if you have info that you know will be played out if released,
keep it to your damn self. Locally I very seldom have to play at much
less that 100% due to progressives. Until a couple of months ago, I
very seldom had a problem getting on one of the 9 machines I wanted.
Today...different story. As a matter of fact, I stood about 1/2 hour
this afternmoon to get an opening(finally did just in time to watch my
neighbot take down the $1600+ royal) I certainly don't think this
forum is affecting this bank being full, but knowledgable players are
becoming more & more frequent.

UPDATE...A smoking ban is almost assured in Ia. Casinos may or not be
exempt. I think house voted yes, senate no. So I still have a chance
to extend my life by a few months if the senate version wins.

#5

<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

3. If I make the logical assumption that others will reciprocate,
then I benefit myself.

You don't even have to assume that others will reciprocate. By helping
others, you immediately decrease the power of your selfishness, which
will (with mathematical precision) reduce your suffering, regardless of
what anyone else does.

Stuart (RandomStu)
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

#6

I have to admit I was absolutely amazed that the $ FPDW at the Hard
Rock lasted another 6+ months after being reported on VPfree...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

So, please explain how I was helped when the $FPDW I had played for a
month at ACD was outed on VPfree. It disappeared in a couple of days.

#7

I wish after some of these are over, a few would get explained as to
how they are so lucrative. I don't want any secrets given out, but a
few examples (maybe even hypothetical) would be enlightening.
Especially to a non-Vegas person.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

PS. Looks like Bob and I are in agreement once again. This is getting
scary.

#8

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@...>
wrote:

> PS. Looks like Bob and I are in agreement once again. This is

getting

> scary.
>

I wish after some of these are over, a few would get explained as

to

how they are so lucrative. I don't want any secrets given out,

but a

few examples (maybe even hypothetical) would be enlightening.
Especially to a non-Vegas person.

The GVR play (Multi-strike NSUD) was already explained. $300/hr.

The $FPDW at ACD or Hard Rock were worth, at 1000 hands/hour *
$5/hand * .75% advantage = $37/hour not including whatever slot club
benefits were available.

A few months ago Mickey Crimm went into much detail explaining his
Montana play. You can go back and read about it.

Is this what you meant?

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@> wrote:

#9

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@>
wrote:
>
> > PS. Looks like Bob and I are in agreement once again. This is
getting
> > scary.
> >
>
>
> I wish after some of these are over, a few would get explained as
to
> how they are so lucrative. I don't want any secrets given out,
but a
> few examples (maybe even hypothetical) would be enlightening.
> Especially to a non-Vegas person.
>

The GVR play (Multi-strike NSUD) was already explained. $300/hr.

The $FPDW at ACD or Hard Rock were worth, at 1000 hands/hour *
$5/hand * .75% advantage = $37/hour not including whatever slot

club

benefits were available.

A few months ago Mickey Crimm went into much detail explaining his
Montana play. You can go back and read about it.

Is this what you meant?

Dick

Well yes and no. The first two above do not seem to approach 6 or 8
percent. Yes I read Mickeys write ups and they were on some odd game
in an obscure location.

But people on here talk about 6 or 8 percent plays that seem to be on
less than 100 percent games , so I was wondering what else was taking
it up to those percentages. The NSUD situation, if I recall
correctly was around 1 percent but at very big bucks, so the hourly
pay was very good, but still not even close to 5 or 8 percent

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@> wrote:

#10

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@...>
wrote:

Well yes and no. The first two above do not seem to approach 6 or 8
percent. Yes I read Mickeys write ups and they were on some odd game
in an obscure location.

But people on here talk about 6 or 8 percent plays that seem to be on
less than 100 percent games , so I was wondering what else was taking
it up to those percentages. The NSUD situation, if I recall
correctly was around 1 percent but at very big bucks, so the hourly
pay was very good, but still not even close to 5 or 8 percent

Here's one from the past. A casino was giving out $50 gift cards for
$2000 coin-in. They had FPDW and other slot club bennies. So, it
started out over 3% before even considering those bennies.

I think someone already mentioned a shorted DB paytable with 2-1 for
two pair. That was real.

Occasionally, a casino has double royal promotions. When added to a
play that might already be between 1-2% jumps it up to 4%.

I remember someone mentioned a play at MonteLago that was also in the
same range. You might want to check the archives.

Dick

#11

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@>
wrote:
>
> Well yes and no. The first two above do not seem to approach 6

or 8

> percent. Yes I read Mickeys write ups and they were on some odd

game

> in an obscure location.
>
> But people on here talk about 6 or 8 percent plays that seem to

be on

> less than 100 percent games , so I was wondering what else was

taking

> it up to those percentages. The NSUD situation, if I recall
> correctly was around 1 percent but at very big bucks, so the

hourly

> pay was very good, but still not even close to 5 or 8 percent
>

Here's one from the past. A casino was giving out $50 gift cards

for

$2000 coin-in. They had FPDW and other slot club bennies. So, it
started out over 3% before even considering those bennies.

I think someone already mentioned a shorted DB paytable with 2-1

for

two pair. That was real.

Occasionally, a casino has double royal promotions. When added to a
play that might already be between 1-2% jumps it up to 4%.

I remember someone mentioned a play at MonteLago that was also in

the

same range. You might want to check the archives.

Dick

Dick,

Your inputs are appreciated. Checking the archives is not very easy
to do, as the search capability is almost nil.

Your examples although impressive, still do not seem t rise to the 6
to 8 percent value. (It is not important to me whether the 6 to 8
percent is on 25c or $25, the point being, it is just hard to imagine
anything going that high, while acknowledging that if it were $25, it
would be extremely imprssive, but out of many of ours reach) Are
those who are quoting those figures just being boastful or factual?

I am also hoping that others might respond also, but again thanks.

DWK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

#12

Your examples although impressive, still do not seem t rise to the 6
to 8 percent value. (It is not important to me whether the 6 to 8
percent is on 25c or $25, the point being, it is just hard to imagine
anything going that high, while acknowledging that if it were $25, it
would be extremely imprssive, but out of many of ours reach) Are
those who are quoting those figures just being boastful or factual?

I am also hoping that others might respond also, but again thanks.

DWK

The "6 to 8 percent" claim is mostly hyperbole, but it has been

attained on occasion. Much more common is the 3-4 percent +EV play,
which usually occurs from a fortuitous combination of circumstances,
and is almost always short-lived.

Examples of the highest EV plays have been:

Double four of a kind promos. These have ranged from the "Texas
Massacre" when EVERY quad on EVERY machine paid double (for a few days)
when Texas Station opened, to a long-running promo at the Frontier
where cashing your paycheck got you a 2X4K coupon that could be used on
dollar 9/6 JOB.

Double royal promos.

One famous disaster at Tuscany, where any final hand of 4RF (loser) was
hand-paid 100 coins. With strategy adjustments, this was over 6%.

It's difficult to imagine any paytable error that all by itself would
convey this kind of edge. The only one that comes to mind is a DB-based
game accidentally paying 2-1 for two pair, which you don't see very
often.

#13

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

It's difficult to imagine any paytable error that all by itself would
convey this kind of edge. The only one that comes to mind is a DB-based
game accidentally paying 2-1 for two pair, which you don't see very
often.

What do you think the overlay was on this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFj_1F6R52s

#14

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "deuceswild1000" <deuceswild1000@...>
wrote:

> PS. Looks like Bob and I are in agreement once again. This is getting
> scary.
>

I wish after some of these are over, a few would get explained as to
how they are so lucrative. I don't want any secrets given out, but a
few examples (maybe even hypothetical) would be enlightening.
Especially to a non-Vegas person.

Sorry, dude, I leave the teaching to the teachers. Some of you out
there might catch on to why we do what we do, which costs me
expectation in the long run. I assure you, it's nothing personal. That
being said, I have been known to do the occasional postmortem on my
site and here. I took enough heat (and perhaps rightly so) for
discussing a Caesars mistake that got rolled up about 24 hours after
LVA published it-a quarter 10-play with SAB and NSUD, the only machine
of that kind that was over 97%.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@> wrote:

#15

DW1000 wrote: I wish after some of these are over, a few would get
explained as to
how they are so lucrative. I don't want any secrets given out, but a
few examples (maybe even hypothetical) would be enlightening.
Especially to a non-Vegas person.

Last year in Casino Player I wrote about a $5 NSU game at Majestic Star
with a $70,000 royal. While that is "only" 5% and you seem to only be
interested in 6% and greater advantages, it was still a relevant
example. Since there was only one machine, for damn sure I wasn't going
to tell anybody before I hit the royal.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#16

DW1000 wrote: I wish after some of these are over, a few would get
explained as to
how they are so lucrative. I don't want any secrets given out,

but a

few examples (maybe even hypothetical) would be enlightening.
Especially to a non-Vegas person.

Last year in Casino Player I wrote about a $5 NSU game at Majestic

Star

with a $70,000 royal. While that is "only" 5% and you seem to only

be

interested in 6% and greater advantages, it was still a relevant
example. Since there was only one machine, for damn sure I wasn't

going

to tell anybody before I hit the royal.

Bob Dancer

No, I am not hung up on those percentage, I was just asking for some
after the fact examples of good plays or even hypothetical In your
example above, was that a mistake or a progressive?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

#17

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

What do you think the overlay was on this game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFj_1F6R52s

I don't know if this case has been settled yet but I believe the lady
has a case. This comes from what I read in Robert Nersessians book,
Beat the Player. He went over one case where someone hit a
progressive four-of-a-kind on a 50 cent bonus poker game(memory hazy
as to whether it was bonus poker) in a strip casino and it flashed up
as a $5,000,000 jackpot.

The case went way up the due process chain. There was some kind of
upper-limit liability involved. Eventually the casino was ordered to
pay $99,999.99.

Nercessian pointed out, in his book, that a "malfunction" and
a "misprogram" are not the same thing. And that the casinos are
responsible for programming their machines correctly.

BTW, how big of an overlay is that?

#18

DW1000 asked: Was that a mistake or a progressive?

Yes to both.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=4641017/grpspId=1705065732/m
sgId=85762/stime=1204297695/nc1=4767085/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848643>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

The base game looks like 6/5 Bonus Poker (-3%), the royal resets at
$800 so ($1,000,000/$800) -1 is an overlay of 1250 royals, that's
about +2,500%, you would get some more juice with royal only strategy ...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
>
>
> What do you think the overlay was on this game:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFj_1F6R52s
>
I don't know if this case has been settled yet but I believe the lady
has a case. This comes from what I read in Robert Nersessians book,
Beat the Player. He went over one case where someone hit a
progressive four-of-a-kind on a 50 cent bonus poker game(memory hazy
as to whether it was bonus poker) in a strip casino and it flashed up
as a $5,000,000 jackpot.

The case went way up the due process chain. There was some kind of
upper-limit liability involved. Eventually the casino was ordered to
pay $99,999.99.

Nercessian pointed out, in his book, that a "malfunction" and
a "misprogram" are not the same thing. And that the casinos are
responsible for programming their machines correctly.

BTW, how big of an overlay is that?

#20

<mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"nightoftheiguana2000"
> <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:

The base game looks like 6/5 Bonus Poker (-3%), the

royal resets at
$800 so ($1,000,000/$800) -1 is an overlay of 1250
royals, that's
about +2,500%, you would get some more juice with
royal only strategy ...

What is Royal Stratergy???
Nick

···

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