Does anyone have any info about whether the progressives on these ever get high enough to make it a good play, perhaps positive combined with high multiple slot club points.
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
how can a slot machine - about which you don't know the individual payback percentage - ever be considered a positive play?
you have an overall (far less than 100%) payback percentage for the entire casino, but the payback on any individual machine could in fact be much lower. you just never know. (although we do know that leased machines and/or machines with licensed content typically have greater holds. the SATC machines would often appear to be both.)
even with a high points multiplier, how could that be considered a positive play, or even a good play?
perhaps you're having fun, you're enjoying the machine, you get some good "time on device" and get lucky and maybe even make a little money... it's still not a positive play.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any info about whether the progressives on these ever get high enough to make it a good play, perhaps positive combined with high multiple slot club points.
I don't remember the specifics, or where, but I skimmed across a website which showed a guy who won over 1 million on this game.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:
Does anyone have any info about whether the progressives on these ever get high enough to make it a good play
that's entirely possible... people win huge jackpots playing slots all the time... and that certainly makes this a positive play for him, in retrospect.
but it doesn't make it a positive play.
you can not sit down at this machine - or any slot machine - and have a reasonable expectation to finish in the plus column, even with a points multiplier. that doesn't mean you shouldn't play it, if you enjoy playing slots and the theme appeals to you.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "derfkark" <derfkark@...> wrote:
I don't remember the specifics, or where, but I skimmed across a website which showed a guy who won over 1 million on this game.
<<how can a slot machine - about which you don't know the individual payback percentage - ever be considered a positive play?
Sometimes those with progressives have been positive.
________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
This is funny. Telling one of the great advantage slot players around that they are wrong.
Sorry Jean, all that money you made on "piggy bankin" must have been an illusion. Or maybe you have to pay it back?!
JW
--- On Mon, 5/3/10, ukstages <takeme2london@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
From: ukstages <takeme2london@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Sex and the City Slots
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 8:44 AM
how can a slot machine - about which
you don't know the individual payback percentage - ever be
considered a positive play?you have an overall (far less than 100%) payback percentage
for the entire casino, but the payback on any individual
machine could in fact be much lower. you just never know.
(although we do know that leased machines and/or machines
with licensed content typically have greater holds. the SATC
machines would often appear to be both.)even with a high points multiplier, how could that be
considered a positive play, or even a good play?perhaps you're having fun, you're enjoying the machine, you
get some good "time on device" and get lucky and maybe even
make a little money... it's still not a positive play.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any info about whether the
progressives on these ever get high enough to make it a good
play, perhaps positive combined with high multiple slot club
points.------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
vpFREE\-fullfeatured@yahoogroups\.com
I know some pro's that are actually playing it in certain locations with certain setpoints ( for example if Samantha ( the easiest to hit ) is over $60 ). In general this is a very loose game, but some casinos have reported back tight and require higher minimum jackpots.
It's very difficult to get on these games when the numbers are high, and it may be the most popular slot around for now.
I personally am 7/8 on this game for a $500 profit, including beating the game at the Reno airport for $30 !
This game is quite groundbreaking in the sense that its geared toward women with its total lack of violence, and bonus rounds with colors, shopping, fashion, gifts, love, individual based themes. Do I mind being one of the few males playing the game ?...not really the ladies playing next to me are quite friendly !
regards...Tom
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Sex and the City Slots
<<how can a slot machine - about which you don't know the individual payback
percentage - ever be considered a positive play?Sometimes those with progressives have been positive.
________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
At the Borgata at 6:30 AM on a weekday I passed a bank of ten of these slots fully occupied !
Larry F.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
I know some pro's that are actually playing it in certain locations with
certain setpoints ( for example if Samantha ( the easiest to hit ) is over
$60 ).
you can laugh all you like, but surely some readers of a video poker forum understand the incongruity of the phrase "advantage slot players."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:
This is funny. Telling one of the great advantage slot players around that they are wrong.
Sorry Jean, all that money you made on "piggy bankin" must have been an illusion. Or maybe you have to pay it back?!
JW
--- On Mon, 5/3/10, ukstages <takeme2london@...> wrote:
> how can a slot machine - about which you don't know the individual payback percentage - ever be considered a positive play?
I think advantage is the key word, no? Advantage means, well, you know - you have an advantage. Most are not so pure as to turn their nose up at an opportunity becase it does not fit into the "box".
JW
--- On Mon, 5/3/10, ukstages <takeme2london@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
From: ukstages <takeme2london@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Sex and the City Slots
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 2:25 PM
you can laugh all you like, but
surely some readers of a video poker forum understand the
incongruity of the phrase "advantage slot players."--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:
>
> This is funny. Telling one of the great
advantage slot players around that they are wrong.
>
> Sorry Jean, all that money you made on "piggy bankin"
must have been an illusion. Or maybe you have to pay
it back?!
>
> JW
>
> --- On Mon, 5/3/10, ukstages <takeme2london@...> > wrote:
>
> > how can a slot machine - about which you don't
know the individual payback percentage - ever be considered
a positive play?------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
vpFREE\-fullfeatured@yahoogroups\.com
Surely the same forum readers can grasp the concept that a sufficiently high progressive can turn a negative game positive whether it's slots or 7-5 Bonus Poker.
Is it sufficiently high in this case? No one seems to be sure, and indeed it is hard to be sure what the base return of a slot machine is, or how high the progressive would need to be to make it positive, but that was sort of the point of the question.
On Mon, 3 May 2010, ukstages wrote:
you can laugh all you like, but surely some readers of a video poker forum understand the incongruity of the phrase "advantage slot players."
<<how can a slot machine - about which you don't know the individual payback
percentage - ever be considered a positive play?
>>Sometimes those with progressives have been positive.
Are banking machines making a comeback? If you want to find out how a slot machine can be a positive play google "Charles Lund Robbing the one armed bandits." Those old banking slots were my first taste of showing a profit gambling. I didn't even need a large bankroll to make money. I hope this thread stays alive so I can get a handle on when these things go positive. I'll be in Vegas in 3 weeks and would love to give Sex and the city or S&H Green Stamps a try.
One of the few males?
I see more men playing the game than women. Sometimes the men are by themselves and sometimes they are with a female companion who is watching, but not playing.
On multiple occasions I have wondered if the solo guys were there with the hope that a cute lady would sit next to them.
Take Care,
Mark
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
This game is quite groundbreaking in the sense that its geared toward women
with its total lack of violence, and bonus rounds with colors, shopping,
fashion, gifts, love, individual based themes. Do I mind being one of the
few males playing the game ?...not really the ladies playing next to me are
quite friendly !
regards...Tom
Did everyone catch the "switch"? Instead of continuing to discuss the topic, the topic becomes Jean Scott. So, instead of talking about actual experiences, vpFREE now becomes a forum about innuendo and bickering which teaches people nothing about VP or slots but quite a bit about the accuser.
I have no idea about Jean Scott's finances. And, unless you are her accountant or a trusted friend or family member, neither do you.
Shifting topics from pertinent information to personal inflammatory remarks only repels people from expressing themselves. We should be encouraging all vpFREE members, including Ms. Scott, to express themselves openly. And the choice to accept or reject the information at that point should be encouraged as well. Just minus the innuendos, please.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:
This is funny. Telling one of the great advantage slot players around that they are wrong.
Sorry Jean, all that money you made on "piggy bankin" must have been an illusion. Or maybe you have to pay it back?!
JW
Damn, you sure can read a lot into an email. Advantage slots have in the past existed. Jean asked the original question about Sex and the City. How the hell is that an innuendo? She asked the Flippin' question!!!
Jigger
"Far better that people think you a fool rather than open your mouth and confirm it"
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Sex and the City Slots
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 10:55 AM--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:
>
> This is funny. Telling one of the great
advantage slot players around that they are wrong.
>
> Sorry Jean, all that money you made on "piggy bankin"
must have been an illusion. Or maybe you have to pay
it back?!
>
> JW
>Did everyone catch the "switch"? Instead of continuing to
discuss the topic, the topic becomes Jean Scott. So, instead
of talking about actual experiences, vpFREE now becomes a
forum about innuendo and bickering which teaches people
nothing about VP or slots but quite a bit about the
accuser.I have no idea about Jean Scott's finances. And, unless you
are her accountant or a trusted friend or family member,
neither do you.Shifting topics from pertinent information to personal
inflammatory remarks only repels people from expressing
themselves. We should be encouraging all vpFREE members,
including Ms. Scott, to express themselves openly. And the
choice to accept or reject the information at that point
should be encouraged as well. Just minus the innuendos,
please.------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
vpFREE\-fullfeatured@yahoogroups\.com
<<Did everyone catch the "switch"? Instead of continuing to discuss the topic, the topic becomes Jean Scott.>>
Actually, mikeymic, Jigger's post was a compliment - we who have known him for a long time love his sense of humor, but you have to understand it! I think you probably didn't catch the real meaning. Perhaps you haven't been into VP long enough to remember the golden age of advantage slots. I wrote a lot about them, especially the "Piggies." Jigger knows me pretty well and knows we did make a lot of money playing them back so many years ago. He was just amused that someone would try to "educate" me about something I have been doing so successfully for 26 years. It's a blow to my teacher heart that someone who gambles hasn't read my Frugal books and therefore doesn't "know me" - but I imagine I will survive!!! 
________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
well, it may have been a compliment to jean, but it certainly wasn't a compliment to me. i'm the poster who asked - following jean's inquiry about SATC- how slots could be considered an "advantage" play.
jigger's response to my inquiry about how slots could be a positive play was that i was "telling one of the great advantage slot players around that they are wrong." both jigger and jean are evidently greatly amused by this.
folks, i don't believe i ever said anyone was "wrong" nor did i even address my question specifically to jean. nor did i ever refer to money she has or has not made... i simply asked a question and offered an opinion.
my belief is that the term "advantage slot player" is a misnomer, especially when juxtaposed against the term "advantage VP player." we call people advantage players in the VP community when they choose to play machines and games with paytables that have a demonstrated mathematical advantage for the player. they may not win, but they do indeed have an "advantage" when they sit down to play. they know the payback percentage of the machine and the statistical probability of various outcomes and - if they are playing correct strategy - can often come out ahead.
there is, however, no true parity with slots because you never know the payback percentage of the machine nor the statistical probability of a particular outcome. you can be an educated slot player, you can even be a slot player who makes a lot of money, but that doesn't give you the same sort of "advantage" that a video poker player has.
as for charlie lund, who is mentioned in a couple of other posts... the problem i have with his book, despite whatever his personal success may or may not be, is that by his own admission, his is a "theory* based chiefly on *estimating* (or what i might call "guessing").
in any case, there is actually much truth to what mikeymic said in his post, regardless of to whom the comments were directed: "shifting topics from pertinent information to personal inflammatory remarks only repels people from expressing themselves."
jigger assumes i'm somehow disrespecting jean; both jean and jigger assume i'm trying to somehow "educate" them; jean goes so far as to suggest that i am unfamiliar with her work (when in fact i have not only read two of her books, i also subscribe to her blog feed)... there are an awful lot of assumptions being made... but precious little information is being presented to support anyone's viewpoint.
as jigger himself says, "i think advantage is the key word, no? advantage means, well, you know - you have an advantage."
exactly.
what's the demonstrated mathematical advantage in slot play?
all i said was that i believe the term "advantage slot player" is a contradiction in terms. and i explained why i believe so. now, if you disagree, please tell us why... but please don't disparage in a condescending manner those who ask specific and pertinent questions.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:
<<Did everyone catch the "switch"? Instead of continuing to discuss the
topic, the topic becomes Jean Scott.>>Actually, mikeymic, Jigger's post was a compliment - we who have known him
for a long time love his sense of humor, but you have to understand it! I
think you probably didn't catch the real meaning. Perhaps you haven't been
into VP long enough to remember the golden age of advantage slots. I wrote
a lot about them, especially the "Piggies." Jigger knows me pretty well and
knows we did make a lot of money playing them back so many years ago. He
was just amused that someone would try to "educate" me about something I
have been doing so successfully for 26 years. It's a blow to my teacher
heart that someone who gambles hasn't read my Frugal books and therefore
doesn't "know me" - but I imagine I will survive!!!
Wow. Disparage? Condescending? I'm just a hack who has read this stuff for years. I know people have made money on these plays. Others have lost, I'm sure. You want to keep the board "pure", no slot stuff. I disagree. So be it.
Condescending? Try your CAPS key......
JW
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it
gets."
"It's Been Lovely, But I Have To Scream Now."
"Deja Moo: The feeling that you've heard this
bullshit before."
"When I'm feeling down, I like to whistle. It makes
the neighbor's dog run to the end of his chain
and gag himself."
"No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too
seriously."
"If you can remain calm, you just don't have all the facts."
"If life deals you lemons, make lemonade;
if it deals you tomatoes, make Bloody Marys."
"You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you."
--- On Tue, 5/4/10, ukstages <takeme2london@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
From: ukstages <takeme2london@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Sex and the City Slots
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, May 4, 2010, 1:17 PMwell, it may have been a compliment to jean, but it
certainly wasn't a compliment to me. i'm the poster who
asked - following jean's inquiry about SATC- how slots could
be considered an "advantage" play.jigger's response to my inquiry about how slots could be a
positive play was that i was "telling one of the great
advantage slot players around that they are wrong." both
jigger and jean are evidently greatly amused by this.folks, i don't believe i ever said anyone was "wrong" nor
did i even address my question specifically to jean. nor did
i ever refer to money she has or has not made... i simply
asked a question and offered an opinion.my belief is that the term "advantage slot player" is a
misnomer, especially when juxtaposed against the term
"advantage VP player." we call people advantage players in
the VP community when they choose to play machines and games
with paytables that have a demonstrated mathematical
advantage for the player. they may not win, but they do
indeed have an "advantage" when they sit down to play. they
know the payback percentage of the machine and the
statistical probability of various outcomes and - if they
are playing correct strategy - can often come out ahead.there is, however, no true parity with slots because you
never know the payback percentage of the machine nor the
statistical probability of a particular outcome. you can be
an educated slot player, you can even be a slot player who
makes a lot of money, but that doesn't give you the same
sort of "advantage" that a video poker player has.as for charlie lund, who is mentioned in a couple of other
posts... the problem i have with his book, despite whatever
his personal success may or may not be, is that by his
own admission, his is a "theory* based chiefly on
*estimating* (or what i might call "guessing").in any case, there is actually much truth to what mikeymic
said in his post, regardless of to whom the comments were
directed: "shifting topics from pertinent information to
personal inflammatory remarks only repels people from
expressing themselves."jigger assumes i'm somehow disrespecting jean; both jean
and jigger assume i'm trying to somehow "educate" them; jean
goes so far as to suggest that i am unfamiliar with her work
(when in fact i have not only read two of her books, i also
subscribe to her blog feed)... there are an awful lot of
assumptions being made... but precious little information is
being presented to support anyone's viewpoint.as jigger himself says, "i think advantage is the key word,
no? advantage means, well, you know - you have an
advantage."exactly.
what's the demonstrated mathematical advantage in slot
play?all i said was that i believe the term "advantage slot
player" is a contradiction in terms. and i explained why i
believe so. now, if you disagree, please tell us why... but
please don't disparage in a condescending manner those who
ask specific and pertinent questions.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:
>
> <<Did everyone catch the "switch"? Instead of
continuing to discuss the
> topic, the topic becomes Jean Scott.>>
>
> Actually, mikeymic, Jigger's post was a compliment -
we who have known him
> for a long time love his sense of humor, but you have
to understand it! I
> think you probably didn't catch the real
meaning. Perhaps you haven't been
> into VP long enough to remember the golden age of
advantage slots. I wrote
> a lot about them, especially the "Piggies."
Jigger knows me pretty well and
> knows we did make a lot of money playing them back so
many years ago. He
> was just amused that someone would try to "educate" me
about something I
> have been doing so successfully for 26 years.
It's a blow to my teacher
> heart that someone who gambles hasn't read my Frugal
books and therefore
> doesn't "know me" - but I imagine I will
survive!!!------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
vpFREE\-fullfeatured@yahoogroups\.com
there is, however, no true parity with slots because you never know the payback percentage of the machine nor the statistical probability of a particular outcome.
Correct, you never really know the actual return (without inside information). But one sure enough can make a reasonable estimate based on actual results. The larger the sample size - the better the estimate.
all i said was that i believe the term "advantage slot player" is a contradiction in terms. and i explained why i believe so. now, if you disagree, please tell us why... but please don't disparage in a condescending manner those who ask specific and pertinent questions.
(Note: This reply is not meant to be condescending at all.) Back in the golden age of advantage slots, I was winning on something like 7 out of 10 plays. AND average losses were smaller than average wins. Even a losing DAY was unusual. All strong indicators that I was playing with not only an advantage, but a *significant* advantage. Other players had similar results. The only thing that really ended the fun was when the casinos eleminated most of these machines virtually overnight, which is itself a strong indicator that they could indeed be played at an advantage.
EE
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ukstages" <takeme2london@...> wrote:
<<all i said was that i believe the term "advantage slot player" is a contradiction in terms. and i explained why i believe so. now, if you disagree, please tell us why>>
Sometimes - in fact, often - the advantage we have in VP is not as cut and dried as someone might wish. Yes, the EV of most games can be figured mathematically. Often the slot club points can be figured the same way. But in so many more areas, guesstimation is not so exact. You might have to estimate # of entries in a drawing. You might not know the theo of a game exactly but you might use information from a friend who has played it in the past. You might have to plan attentively what you might get in mailed BB, knowing it might depend on unknown factors and the changing whims of casino marketing We get a lot of information from friends and from Internet sources, based on experience of others. Because I have played for many years I often have a "feel" for my general advantage, (marginal, good, excellent) but I rarely know the exact math advantage we have.
Just as not all VP is advantageous not all slots are non-advantage. I don't know how to judge them but there are a few smart players around who can. And there ARE some progressive slots that go positive. Flaming 7's, I believe, is one example but I don't know the numbers. Not as many as there used to be. But still possible.
Therefore, I can not agree with your statement: {i'm the poster who asked - following jean's inquiry about SATC- how slots could be considered an "advantage" play.} Actually almost all games could be an advantage play. On page 19 of my first book, I made a list of positive and negative games, plus another category of "Potentially Positive." Those included negative games played in a tournament format, with a progressive feature or an equity consideration, with a coupon, as part of a special promotion, with a slot club or similar rebate program, or when comps are factored in.
________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/