Second Hand Smoke---More Dangerous Than You Think!

[thymos_one]

Secondhand Smoke Increases Heart Risks
Accumulated data supports smoke-free environments, experts say

By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter

MONDAY, May 23 (HealthDay News) -- The average nonsmoker walking into
a smoke-filled room might not think short-term exposure to cigarette
smoke will affect them.

But a new study suggests that even small amounts of secondhand smoke
can cause life-threatening changes to a nonsmokers' circulatory
system.

And while the immediate effects of this exposure are reversed within
a few hours, exposure to secondhand smoke over longer periods of time
can have devastating consequences to the heart, including an
increased risk for heart attack, researchers warn.

"Secondhand smoke is even worse than we thought," said co-researcher
Stanton A. Glantz, a professor of medicine and longtime antismoking
advocate at the University of California, San Francisco. "It
increases the risk for an acute coronary event like a heart attack or
long-term development of atherosclerosis," he added.

Chronic exposure to secondhand smoke is about 80 percent as
deleterious to health as being a pack-a-day smoker, Glantz said. "The
cardiovascular system is exquisitely sensitive to the toxins of
secondhand cigarette smoke. Most of the toxic effects of secondhand
smoke occur within five minutes of exposure," he noted.

In their study, Glantz and his colleague Dr. Joaquin Barnoya, an
assistant adjunct professor of epidemiology at UCSF, reviewed the
existing medical literature on the effects of secondhand smoke on the
cardiovascular system. They looked at 29 studies published since 1995
that compared the effects of secondhand smoke with the effects of
active smoking.

Their report appears in the May 24 issue of Circulation.

Glantz and Barnoya found there is sufficient evidence that key
aspects of cardiovascular function, including clotting, the ability
of blood vessels to change size, arterial stiffness, atherosclerosis,
oxidative stress, inflammation, heart rate variability, energy
metabolism, and severity of heart attack are all sensitive to toxins
found in secondhand smoke.

"The effects of even brief (minutes to hours) passive smoking are
often nearly as large (averaging 80 percent to 90 percent) as chronic
active smoking," they wrote.

"It doesn't take much to cause big effects," Glantz said. "If you
already have compromised coronary circulation and go into a smoky
environment, there is a substantial increase in your risk of an acute
event."

Barnoya believes the findings belie what the tobacco industry would
have people believe. "The arguments from the tobacco industry have
been that it is not likely that you can find such large effects in
passive smokers, given the dose they get compared with the dose an
active smoker gets," he explained.

But nonsmokers are more sensitive to the effect of tobacco smoke than
are active smokers, Barnoya said. "In some cases, the effects are as
large or even larger than you see in an active smoker."

The dangers of secondhand smoke are so great that Barnoya believes
everyone should avoid it. "We should be fighting for smoke-free
environments," he stressed.

Other experts not involved in the study are unanimous in their
agreement of the dangers of secondhand smoke.

"Secondhand smoke disables and kills many people by virtue of its
cardiovascular effects and also by virtue of its effects on the
lung," said Dr. Norman H. Edelman, chief medical officer for the
American Lung Association.

Another expert sees secondhand smoke as an assault on the health of
nonsmokers. "How can any society allow tobacco smoke to be imposed on
innocent bystanders?" asked Dr. David L. Katz, an associate clinical
professor of public health and director of the Prevention Research
Center at Yale University School of Medicine.

"We have clear, convincing evidence that those who smoke are swinging
a big stick indeed at the noses of those of us who don't," Katz
said. "While they should have autonomy over their choices, they
should not have autonomy over ours. Smoking in public places does not
stop where my nose begins and therefore, it should be banned. Not
just by some states, but by all. This study will, I hope, help
cultivate the political will to see that job is done sooner rather
than later."

Requests for a response from cigarette maker Philip Morris Inc., were
not answered at press time.

More information

The American Heart Association can tell you more about the dangers of
secondhand smoke.

SOURCES: Stanton A. Glantz, Ph.D., professor of medicine, University
of California, San Francisco; Joaquin Barnoya, M.D. M.P.H., assistant
adjunct professor, epidemiology, University of California, San
Francisco, and director, cardiovascular research, Unidad de Cirugia
Cardiovascular de Guatemala, Guatemala City; Norman H. Edelman, M.D.,
vice president, Health Sciences Center, dean, School of Medicine,
Stony Brook University, New York, and chief medical officer, American
Lung Association; David L. Katz, M.D., M.P.H., associate clinical
professor, public health, and director, Prevention Research Center,
Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Conn.; May 24, 2005,
Circulation

Last Updated: May 23, 2005

Copyright © 2005 ScoutNews LLC. All rights reserved.

[Rob_Singer1]

You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will show
admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths. However,
don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke affecting HIM or
the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside casinos! Once you do
that, he'll go into the rage of his 'defensive DENIAL' mode, saying
how the 'air filtration systems in the casinos make this a non-issue
for him, and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so as
it not to affect him AT ALL. In other words, just as he does with
every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and passes on
the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only being a bad
thing "for the other guy". Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions, because in his
sick mind he's found a way around their being any part of this 2nd
hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his own worst enemy.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "thymos_one" <thymos_one@...>
wrote:

Secondhand Smoke Increases Heart Risks
Accumulated data supports smoke-free environments, experts say

By Steven Reinberg
HealthDay Reporter

MONDAY, May 23 (HealthDay News) -- The average nonsmoker walking

into

a smoke-filled room might not think short-term exposure to

cigarette

smoke will affect them.

But a new study suggests that even small amounts of secondhand

smoke

can cause life-threatening changes to a nonsmokers' circulatory
system.

And while the immediate effects of this exposure are reversed

within

a few hours, exposure to secondhand smoke over longer periods of

time

can have devastating consequences to the heart, including an
increased risk for heart attack, researchers warn.

"Secondhand smoke is even worse than we thought," said co-

researcher

Stanton A. Glantz, a professor of medicine and longtime antismoking
advocate at the University of California, San Francisco. "It
increases the risk for an acute coronary event like a heart attack

or

long-term development of atherosclerosis," he added.

Chronic exposure to secondhand smoke is about 80 percent as
deleterious to health as being a pack-a-day smoker, Glantz

said. "The

cardiovascular system is exquisitely sensitive to the toxins of
secondhand cigarette smoke. Most of the toxic effects of secondhand
smoke occur within five minutes of exposure," he noted.

In their study, Glantz and his colleague Dr. Joaquin Barnoya, an
assistant adjunct professor of epidemiology at UCSF, reviewed the
existing medical literature on the effects of secondhand smoke on

the

cardiovascular system. They looked at 29 studies published since

1995

that compared the effects of secondhand smoke with the effects of
active smoking.

Their report appears in the May 24 issue of Circulation.

Glantz and Barnoya found there is sufficient evidence that key
aspects of cardiovascular function, including clotting, the ability
of blood vessels to change size, arterial stiffness,

atherosclerosis,

oxidative stress, inflammation, heart rate variability, energy
metabolism, and severity of heart attack are all sensitive to

toxins

found in secondhand smoke.

"The effects of even brief (minutes to hours) passive smoking are
often nearly as large (averaging 80 percent to 90 percent) as

chronic

active smoking," they wrote.

"It doesn't take much to cause big effects," Glantz said. "If you
already have compromised coronary circulation and go into a smoky
environment, there is a substantial increase in your risk of an

acute

event."

Barnoya believes the findings belie what the tobacco industry would
have people believe. "The arguments from the tobacco industry have
been that it is not likely that you can find such large effects in
passive smokers, given the dose they get compared with the dose an
active smoker gets," he explained.

But nonsmokers are more sensitive to the effect of tobacco smoke

than

are active smokers, Barnoya said. "In some cases, the effects are

as

large or even larger than you see in an active smoker."

The dangers of secondhand smoke are so great that Barnoya believes
everyone should avoid it. "We should be fighting for smoke-free
environments," he stressed.

Other experts not involved in the study are unanimous in their
agreement of the dangers of secondhand smoke.

"Secondhand smoke disables and kills many people by virtue of its
cardiovascular effects and also by virtue of its effects on the
lung," said Dr. Norman H. Edelman, chief medical officer for the
American Lung Association.

Another expert sees secondhand smoke as an assault on the health of
nonsmokers. "How can any society allow tobacco smoke to be imposed

on

innocent bystanders?" asked Dr. David L. Katz, an associate

clinical

professor of public health and director of the Prevention Research
Center at Yale University School of Medicine.

"We have clear, convincing evidence that those who smoke are

swinging

a big stick indeed at the noses of those of us who don't," Katz
said. "While they should have autonomy over their choices, they
should not have autonomy over ours. Smoking in public places does

not

stop where my nose begins and therefore, it should be banned. Not
just by some states, but by all. This study will, I hope, help
cultivate the political will to see that job is done sooner rather
than later."

Requests for a response from cigarette maker Philip Morris Inc.,

were

not answered at press time.

More information

The American Heart Association can tell you more about the dangers

of

secondhand smoke.

SOURCES: Stanton A. Glantz, Ph.D., professor of medicine,

University

of California, San Francisco; Joaquin Barnoya, M.D. M.P.H.,

assistant

adjunct professor, epidemiology, University of California, San
Francisco, and director, cardiovascular research, Unidad de Cirugia
Cardiovascular de Guatemala, Guatemala City; Norman H. Edelman,

M.D.,

vice president, Health Sciences Center, dean, School of Medicine,
Stony Brook University, New York, and chief medical officer,

American

···

Lung Association; David L. Katz, M.D., M.P.H., associate clinical
professor, public health, and director, Prevention Research Center,
Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Conn.; May 24, 2005,
Circulation

Last Updated: May 23, 2005

Copyright © 2005 ScoutNews LLC. All rights reserved.

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will show
admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths. However,
don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke affecting HIM or
the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside casinos! Once you do
that, he'll go into the rage of his 'defensive DENIAL' mode, saying
how the 'air filtration systems in the casinos make this a non-

issue

for him,

Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time you get in
a car you're taking a risk.

and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so as
it not to affect him AT ALL.

Limiting exposure is only common sense.

In other words, just as he does with
every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and passes on
the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only being a

bad

thing "for the other guy".

There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for your failures
is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.

Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions, because in

his

sick mind he's found a way around their being any part of this 2nd
hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his own worst enemy.

No justifications required. There is a risk for me just like there's
a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If you are
genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand smoke then
you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every time you start
up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think there was NO
risk, did you?

[thymos_one]

Also, every time you start

up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think there was NO
risk, did you?

First off there is the trade-off of the enjoyement of driving a muscle,
i.e. driving fast versus the risk of an accident. There is no trade-off
in the video poker example, inhaling smoke is not part of the enjoyment
of playing video poker, for me!

Secondly, a smart driver can control and reduce the risk exposure, by
wearing seatbelts, installing airbags, and adjusting driving behavior
to road conditions...and the all important don't drink and drive. To
accept unnecessary risk, with no additional benefit, is foolish!

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[Rob_Singer1]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@>
wrote:
>
> You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will show
> admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths.

However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke
affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside
casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of his 'defensive
DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in the casinos
make this a non-issue for him,

Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time you get

in a car you're taking a risk.

When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!

> and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so as
> it not to affect him AT ALL.

Limiting exposure is only common sense.

Limiting CASINO VISITS makes more sense.

> In other words, just as he does with
> every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and passes

on the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only being a

bad thing "for the other guy".

There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for your

failures is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.

As if by my every command.....It's ME now who's his famous 'the
other guy'!

> Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
> that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions, because

in his sick mind he's found a way around their being any part of
this 2nd hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his own worst
enemy.

No justifications required. There is a risk for me just like

there's a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If you are

genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand smoke then
you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every time you

start up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think there was
NO risk, did you?

Double-talking the issue has no effect on reality or common sense.
You can compare your habit to whatever you like, but the clear fact
is you know you far overdo the casino thing, and that the only way
to cut back on the exposure to the negatives associated with it is
to cut way back or quit altogether. Most interests in this world by
normal people--such as mine with my old cars or even mine with my
gambling trips, is done in controlled moderation

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[Rob_Singer1]

Forget about trying to make sense with this guy. Unless you blast
him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and what he has
done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's designed to
make him feel good and no more. That's all fools like him are about--
making themselves feel as if they've had the final say, they talk
themselves into feeling important, and they feel good that their
word is the end of the game. He's a low-confidence clown who makes
believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd feel after
years of abuse? Now he has what he considers his ultimate waeponry---
Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney, nonsense, and
neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll get over him.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "thymos_one" <thymos_one@...>
wrote:

>
Also, every time you start
> up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think there was

NO

> risk, did you?
>

First off there is the trade-off of the enjoyement of driving a

muscle,

i.e. driving fast versus the risk of an accident. There is no

trade-off

in the video poker example, inhaling smoke is not part of the

enjoyment

of playing video poker, for me!

Secondly, a smart driver can control and reduce the risk exposure,

by

wearing seatbelts, installing airbags, and adjusting driving

behavior

to road conditions...and the all important don't drink and drive.

To

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@> wrote:
accept unnecessary risk, with no additional benefit, is foolish!

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

> > You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will show
> > admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths.
However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke
affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside
casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of his 'defensive
DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in the casinos
make this a non-issue for him,

> Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time you get
in a car you're taking a risk.

When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!

Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?

> > and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so as
> > it not to affect him AT ALL.
>
> Limiting exposure is only common sense.

Limiting CASINO VISITS makes more sense.

Only from a second hand smoke perspective. However, I try to take
into account many things before making personal choices as I'm sure
you do with your cars and living with the poor air quality of the
Phoenix area.

> > In other words, just as he does with
> > every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and passes
on the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only being

a

> bad thing "for the other guy".

> There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for your
failures is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.

As if by my every command.....It's ME now who's his famous 'the
other guy'!

What does that have to do with you being a failure? And, blaming it
on your wife.

> > Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
> > that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions, because
in his sick mind he's found a way around their being any part of
this 2nd hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his own

worst

enemy.

> No justifications required. There is a risk for me just like
there's a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If you

are

> genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand smoke

then

> you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every time you
start up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think there

was

NO risk, did you?

Double-talking the issue has no effect on reality or common sense.

No double talk. Just the facts, as usual. I can see that the facts
leave you no good response.

You can compare your habit to whatever you like, but the clear fact
is you know you far overdo the casino thing,

No, I do it just right. It's a personal choice that weighs ALL the
positive aspects and negative ones.

and that the only way
to cut back on the exposure to the negatives associated with it is
to cut way back or quit altogether. Most interests in this world by
normal people--such as mine with my old cars or even mine with my
gambling trips, is done in controlled moderation

Once again, Rob finds that certain risks are "acceptable" for his
endeavors but not "acceptable" for some one elses. This is called
hypocracy. Only the person making the risk-reward trade-off can
determine what is right for them. This is as obvious as it gets. The
only reason Rob chooses to find fault with APers' decisions is to
further his own con. This is also as obvious as it gets.

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

Forget about trying to make sense with this guy.

Robs' inner voice (RIV). No disagreement.

Unless you blast
him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and what he

has

done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's designed to
make him feel good and no more.

RIV. A very accurate portrayal of Rob.

That's all fools like him are about--
making themselves feel as if they've had the final say, they talk
themselves into feeling important, and they feel good that their
word is the end of the game.

RIV. This is what happens to a failure. Robs' life in a nutshell.

He's a low-confidence clown who makes
believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd feel after
years of abuse?

RIV. Finally, admitting abuse. This is the first step Rob needs to
take. Listen to your inner voice.

Now he has what he considers his ultimate waeponry---
Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney, nonsense, and
neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll get over him.

RIV. Good advice to anyone reading Robs' posts.

[Rob_Singer1]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@>
wrote:
> > > You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will

show

> > > admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths.
> However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke
> affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside
> casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of

his 'defensive

> DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in the

casinos

> make this a non-issue for him,
>
> > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time you

get

> in a car you're taking a risk.
>
> When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!

Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?

Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but simple truth,
minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??

>
> > > and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so as
> > > it not to affect him AT ALL.
> >
> > Limiting exposure is only common sense.
>
> Limiting CASINO VISITS makes more sense.

Only from a second hand smoke perspective. However, I try to take
into account many things before making personal choices as I'm sure
you do with your cars and living with the poor air quality of the
Phoenix area.

Only this...only that. Compare this....compare that. When will you
ever admit to that which makes you look so vulnerably stupid?

>
> > > In other words, just as he does with
> > > every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and

passes

> on the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only

being

a
> > bad thing "for the other guy".
>
> > There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for your
> failures is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.
>
> As if by my every command.....It's ME now who's his famous 'the
> other guy'!

What does that have to do with you being a failure? And, blaming it
on your wife.

As you continue to squirm with the original message,

>
> > > Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
> > > that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions,

because

> in his sick mind he's found a way around their being any part of
> this 2nd hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his own
worst
> enemy.
>
> > No justifications required. There is a risk for me just like
> there's a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If you
are
> > genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand smoke
then
> > you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every time you
> start up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think there
was
> NO risk, did you?
>
> Double-talking the issue has no effect on reality or common sense.

No double talk. Just the facts, as usual. I can see that the facts
leave you no good response.

Denail doesn't help either.

> You can compare your habit to whatever you like, but the clear

fact is you know you far overdo the casino thing,

No, I do it just right. It's a personal choice that weighs ALL the
positive aspects and negative ones.

You HAVE no choice--other than which unhealthy casino to make your
problematic gambling visits to all the time.

> and that the only way
> to cut back on the exposure to the negatives associated with it

is

> to cut way back or quit altogether. Most interests in this world

by

> normal people--such as mine with my old cars or even mine with my
> gambling trips, is done in controlled moderation

Once again, Rob finds that certain risks are "acceptable" for his
endeavors but not "acceptable" for some one elses. This is called
hypocracy. Only the person making the risk-reward trade-off can
determine what is right for them. This is as obvious as it gets.

The

only reason Rob chooses to find fault with APers' decisions is to
further his own con. This is also as obvious as it gets.

Zzzoooommmm! Right thru the hole in your head again.....but likely on
purpose. Better to expose the hole than admit to the truth.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[Rob_Singer1]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@>
wrote:
>
> Forget about trying to make sense with this guy.

Robs' inner voice (RIV). No disagreement.

So that stung, did it??

> Unless you blast
> him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and what he
has
> done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's designed

to

> make him feel good and no more.

RIV. A very accurate portrayal of Rob.

See what I mean?

> That's all fools like him are about--
> making themselves feel as if they've had the final say, they talk
> themselves into feeling important, and they feel good that their
> word is the end of the game.

RIV. This is what happens to a failure. Robs' life in a nutshell.

See what I mean!!

> He's a low-confidence clown who makes
> believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd feel after
> years of abuse?

RIV. Finally, admitting abuse. This is the first step Rob needs to
take. Listen to your inner voice.

Anything that has "abuse the nerds" in it catches my eye. It's 100%
fun and zero percent work.

> Now he has what he considers his ultimate waeponry---
> Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney, nonsense,

and

> neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll get over him.

RIV. Good advice to anyone reading Robs' posts.

Loss of originality (a common geek trait who's reeling from being
used as toilet paper).

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

> > > > You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will
show
> > > > admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths.
> > However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke
> > affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside
> > casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of
his 'defensive
> > DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in the
casinos
> > make this a non-issue for him,
> >
> > > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time you
get
> > in a car you're taking a risk.
> >
> > When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!
>
> Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?

Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but simple

truth,

minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??

Always, that's why I deal in facts. Why is it you deal in lies?

>
> >
> > > > and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so

as

> > > > it not to affect him AT ALL.
> > >
> > > Limiting exposure is only common sense.
> >
> > Limiting CASINO VISITS makes more sense.
>
> Only from a second hand smoke perspective. However, I try to take
> into account many things before making personal choices as I'm

sure

> you do with your cars and living with the poor air quality of the
> Phoenix area.

Only this...only that. Compare this....compare that. When will you
ever admit to that which makes you look so vulnerably stupid?

Sorry, Biffy-boy, but asserting lies just doesn't cut it here
anymore. You always do this when confronted with simple truths. It
makes you look small and petty. That is one reason your inner voice
speaks so often.

> > > > In other words, just as he does with
> > > > every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and
passes
> > on the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only
being
> a
> > > bad thing "for the other guy".
> >
> > > There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for your
> > failures is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.
> >
> > As if by my every command.....It's ME now who's his famous 'the
> > other guy'!
>
> What does that have to do with you being a failure? And, blaming

it

> on your wife.

As you continue to squirm with the original message,

Robs' inner voice again. Answer the questions.

>
> >
> > > > Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
> > > > that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions,
because
> > in his sick mind he's found a way around their being any part

of

> > this 2nd hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his own
> worst
> > enemy.
> >
> > > No justifications required. There is a risk for me just like
> > there's a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If

you

> are
> > > genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand smoke
> then
> > > you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every time you
> > start up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think

there

> was
> > NO risk, did you?
> >
> > Double-talking the issue has no effect on reality or common

sense.

>
> No double talk. Just the facts, as usual. I can see that the

facts

> leave you no good response.

Denail doesn't help either.

Isn't that exactly what your inner voice has been telling you?

>
> > You can compare your habit to whatever you like, but the clear
fact is you know you far overdo the casino thing,
>
> No, I do it just right. It's a personal choice that weighs ALL

the

> positive aspects and negative ones.

You HAVE no choice--other than which unhealthy casino to make your
problematic gambling visits to all the time.

Yawn. You just can't come up with anything to counter my facts. Once
again you are looking small and petty.

>
> > and that the only way
> > to cut back on the exposure to the negatives associated with it
is
> > to cut way back or quit altogether. Most interests in this

world

by
> > normal people--such as mine with my old cars or even mine with

my

> > gambling trips, is done in controlled moderation
>
> Once again, Rob finds that certain risks are "acceptable" for his
> endeavors but not "acceptable" for some one elses. This is called
> hypocracy. Only the person making the risk-reward trade-off can
> determine what is right for them. This is as obvious as it gets.
The
> only reason Rob chooses to find fault with APers' decisions is to
> further his own con. This is also as obvious as it gets.

Zzzoooommmm! Right thru the hole in your head again.....but likely

on

purpose. Better to expose the hole than admit to the truth.

My explanation was clear and concise. Your response demonstrated once
again that you can't counter a reasonable argument with anything
remotely intelligent. Do you have any idea what this makes you look
like? Your inner self sure does.

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

> > Forget about trying to make sense with this guy.
>
> Robs' inner voice (RIV). No disagreement.

So that stung, did it??

Nope.

>
> > Unless you blast
> > him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and what

he

> has
> > done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's

designed

to
> > make him feel good and no more.
>
> RIV. A very accurate portrayal of Rob.

See what I mean?

Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob would
take note ...

>
> > That's all fools like him are about--
> > making themselves feel as if they've had the final say, they

talk

> > themselves into feeling important, and they feel good that

their

> > word is the end of the game.
>
> RIV. This is what happens to a failure. Robs' life in a nutshell.

See what I mean!!

Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob would
take note ...

>
> > He's a low-confidence clown who makes
> > believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd feel

after

> > years of abuse?
>
> RIV. Finally, admitting abuse. This is the first step Rob needs

to

> take. Listen to your inner voice.

Anything that has "abuse the nerds" in it catches my eye. It's 100%
fun and zero percent work.

And, just like Biff, it has gotten you nowhere. Listen to your inner
voice.

>
> > Now he has what he considers his ultimate waeponry---
> > Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney, nonsense,
and
> > neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll get over him.
>
> RIV. Good advice to anyone reading Robs' posts.

Loss of originality (a common geek trait who's reeling from being
used as toilet paper).

Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob would
take note ...

[Rob_Singer1]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@>
wrote:
> > > > > You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky will
> show
> > > > > admiration for your digging up this set of clear truths.
> > > However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke
> > > affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays inside
> > > casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of
> his 'defensive
> > > DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in the
> casinos
> > > make this a non-issue for him,
> > >
> > > > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time

you

> get
> > > in a car you're taking a risk.
> > >
> > > When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!
> >
> > Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?
>
> Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but simple
truth,
> minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??

Always, that's why I deal in facts. Why is it you deal in lies?

Then why the need to minimilaze everything so you don't have to take
it so hard in the shorts? Kinda suggests something other than "the
facts"!

> > > > > and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible so
as
> > > > > it not to affect him AT ALL.
> > > >
> > > > Limiting exposure is only common sense.
> > >
> > > Limiting CASINO VISITS makes more sense.
> >
> > Only from a second hand smoke perspective. However, I try to

take

> > into account many things before making personal choices as I'm
sure
> > you do with your cars and living with the poor air quality of

the

> > Phoenix area.
>
> Only this...only that. Compare this....compare that. When will

you

> ever admit to that which makes you look so vulnerably stupid?

Sorry, Biffy-boy, but asserting lies just doesn't cut it here
anymore. You always do this when confronted with simple truths. It
makes you look small and petty. That is one reason your inner voice
speaks so often.

The only issue you swing and miss more at than this is about your
bambling problem. You easily get yourself rattled into wordy rambles
that anyone can see is done only because you have no direction other
than to go against truth and reality.

> > > > > In other words, just as he does with
> > > > > every negative about his compulsive gambling habit - and
> passes
> > > on the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as only
> being
> > a
> > > > bad thing "for the other guy".
> > >
> > > > There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for your
> > > failures is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.
> > >
> > > As if by my every command.....It's ME now who's his

famous 'the other guy'!

> >
> > What does that have to do with you being a failure? And,

blaming

it
> > on your wife.
>
> As you continue to squirm with the original message,

Robs' inner voice again. Answer the questions.

And now you're having trouble reaching out for the truth as denial
continues to haunt you.
  

> > > > > Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
> > > > > that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions,
> because in his sick mind he's found a way around their being any

part of this 2nd hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his
own worst enemy.

> > >
> > > > No justifications required. There is a risk for me just

like there's a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If

you are genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand

smoke then you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every time
you start up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think

there was NO risk, did you?
> > >
> > > Double-talking the issue has no effect on reality or common
sense.
> >
> > No double talk. Just the facts, as usual. I can see that the
facts leave you no good response.
>
> Denial doesn't help either.

Isn't that exactly what your inner voice has been telling you?

What's this 'inner voice' you seem to use as your new crutch? Anyway,
you'll say anything that justifies your inordinate amount of visits
to casinos. That's because you have no way out. Your weeny and
pathetic gambling life - which is your WHOLE life - would be over if
that ever happened.

> >
> > > You can compare your habit to whatever you like, but the

clear fact is you know you far overdo the casino thing,

> >
> > No, I do it just right. It's a personal choice that weighs ALL
the positive aspects and negative ones.
>
> You HAVE no choice--other than which unhealthy casino to make

your problematic gambling visits to all the time.

Yawn. You just can't come up with anything to counter my facts.

Once again you are looking small and petty.

You call falsely justifying a pathetic habit a fact? HAHA! You're so
full of it. You don't "weigh all the pluses & minuses....you simply
cannot wait to get in the car and zoom over to the casino whenever
the urge overtakes you and that gambling addict wife of yours. What a
truly pathetic way to be a 'family'--which in itself is an insult to
every decent family in this country.

> >
> > > and that the only way
> > > to cut back on the exposure to the negatives associated with

it is to cut way back or quit altogether. Most interests in this

world by normal people--such as mine with my old cars or even mine

with my gambling trips, is done in controlled moderation

> >
> > Once again, Rob finds that certain risks are "acceptable" for

his

> > endeavors but not "acceptable" for some one elses. This is

called

> > hypocracy. Only the person making the risk-reward trade-off can
> > determine what is right for them. This is as obvious as it

gets.

> The
> > only reason Rob chooses to find fault with APers' decisions is

to

> > further his own con. This is also as obvious as it gets.
>
> Zzzoooommmm! Right thru the hole in your head again.....but

likely on purpose. Better to expose the hole than admit to the truth.

My explanation was clear and concise. Your response demonstrated

once

again that you can't counter a reasonable argument with anything
remotely intelligent. Do you have any idea what this makes you look
like? Your inner self sure does.

I see I've finally sapped all your strength with a clean, clear dose
of reality. All your make-believe trade-off nonsense doesn't cut it
when it comes to right vs. wrong and common sense vs. pathological
habit. You've been tapped by the sicknees stick little dicky, and you
really don't have any way out. you'll take your and your wife;s
disgrace to your graves, and decent people will pass by and spit on
both of them because of how you have tried and tried to tell them
your illnesses were OK to have in tainted lives.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[Rob_Singer1]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@>
wrote:
> > > Forget about trying to make sense with this guy.
> >
> > Robs' inner voice (RIV). No disagreement.
>
> So that stung, did it??

Nope.

Yup.

> >
> > > Unless you blast
> > > him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and what
he
> > has
> > > done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's
designed
> to
> > > make him feel good and no more.
> >
> > RIV. A very accurate portrayal of Rob.
>
> See what I mean?

Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob

would

take note ...

when at a loss for words, repeat what the master has said!!!

> >
> > > That's all fools like him are about--
> > > making themselves feel as if they've had the final say, they
talk
> > > themselves into feeling important, and they feel good that
their
> > > word is the end of the game.
> >
> > RIV. This is what happens to a failure. Robs' life in a

nutshell.

>
> See what I mean!!

Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob

would

take note ...

When at a loss for words, repeat the master!!!

> >
> > > He's a low-confidence clown who makes
> > > believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd feel
after
> > > years of abuse?
> >
> > RIV. Finally, admitting abuse. This is the first step Rob needs
to
> > take. Listen to your inner voice.
>
> Anything that has "abuse the nerds" in it catches my eye. It's

100%

> fun and zero percent work.

And, just like Biff, it has gotten you nowhere. Listen to your

inner

voice.

Oh but it has! I gewt ENORMOUS satisfaction in both ridiculing &
humiliating you on every subject, and denying you the right
to 'belong' to that which you so dearly long for in the vp community.
So for now, all you can do is show your interest by being a problem
gambler!

> >
> > > Now he has what he considers his ultimate weaponry---
> > > Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney,

nonsense,

> and
> > > neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll get over

him.

> >
> > RIV. Good advice to anyone reading Robs' posts.
>
> Loss of originality (a common geek trait who's reeling from being
> used as toilet paper).

Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob

would

take note ...

Let's talk about how it feels to be toilet paper--used only! Give us
some insight.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

> > > > > > You're preaching to the choir, and even little dicky

will

> > show
> > > > > > admiration for your digging up this set of clear

truths.

> > > > However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand smoke
> > > > affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays

inside

> > > > casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of
> > his 'defensive
> > > > DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in the
> > casinos
> > > > make this a non-issue for him,
> > > >
> > > > > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every time
you
> > get
> > > > in a car you're taking a risk.
> > > >
> > > > When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!
> > >
> > > Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?
> >
> > Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but simple
> truth,
> > minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??
>
> Always, that's why I deal in facts. Why is it you deal in lies?

Then why the need to minimilaze everything so you don't have to

take

it so hard in the shorts? Kinda suggests something other than "the
facts"!

Lie. I don't "minimalize" anything. It makes you look foolish to keep
asserting these lies and never backing them up.

> > > > > > and how he sits 'as far away from smokers' as possible

so

> as
> > > > > > it not to affect him AT ALL.
> > > > >
> > > > > Limiting exposure is only common sense.
> > > >
> > > > Limiting CASINO VISITS makes more sense.
> > >
> > > Only from a second hand smoke perspective. However, I try to
take
> > > into account many things before making personal choices as

I'm

> sure
> > > you do with your cars and living with the poor air quality of
the
> > > Phoenix area.
> >
> > Only this...only that. Compare this....compare that. When will
you
> > ever admit to that which makes you look so vulnerably stupid?
>
> Sorry, Biffy-boy, but asserting lies just doesn't cut it here
> anymore. You always do this when confronted with simple truths.

It

> makes you look small and petty. That is one reason your inner

voice

> speaks so often.

The only issue you swing and miss more at than this is about your
bambling problem. You easily get yourself rattled into wordy

rambles

that anyone can see is done only because you have no direction

other

than to go against truth and reality.

First, he states I "minimalize" and then when I give a longer version
I "ramble". Can't you pick a lie and stick with it?

>
> > > > > > In other words, just as he does with
> > > > > > every negative about his compulsive gambling habit -

and

> > passes
> > > > on the blame for that to his wife - he'll pass it on as

only

> > being
> > > a
> > > > > bad thing "for the other guy".
> > > >
> > > > > There's that inner voice again. Blaming your wife for

your

> > > > failures is ridiculous, we can all see why you failed.
> > > >
> > > > As if by my every command…It's ME now who's his
famous 'the other guy'!
> > >
> > > What does that have to do with you being a failure? And,
blaming
> it
> > > on your wife.
> >
> > As you continue to squirm with the original message,
>
> Robs' inner voice again. Answer the questions.

And now you're having trouble reaching out for the truth as denial
continues to haunt you.

Just the facts, as usual. Now, answer the questions.

> > > > > > Thus, he can continue to feel-good now
> > > > > > that he's been able to justify his & 'her' addictions,
> > because in his sick mind he's found a way around their being

any

part of this 2nd hand smoke controvery whatsoever. He truly is his
own worst enemy.
> > > >
> > > > > No justifications required. There is a risk for me just
like there's a risk for you every time you step into a casino. If
> you are genetically pre-disposed to the problems of second hand
smoke then you may be taking a bigger risk than me. Also, every

time

you start up one of those muscle cars. You didn't really think
> there was NO risk, did you?
> > > >
> > > > Double-talking the issue has no effect on reality or common
> sense.
> > >
> > > No double talk. Just the facts, as usual. I can see that the
> facts leave you no good response.
> >
> > Denial doesn't help either.
>
> Isn't that exactly what your inner voice has been telling you?

What's this 'inner voice' you seem to use as your new crutch?

The voice of your inner self. It's what you could have become (and
still could) if, instead of justifying your abuser, you confronted
him. Instead of justifying his abuse, you recognized that abuse was
wrong. Instead of BECOMING the abuser you chose to live a normal life.

Anyway,
you'll say anything that justifies your inordinate amount of visits
to casinos. That's because you have no way out. Your weeny and
pathetic gambling life - which is your WHOLE life - would be over

if

that ever happened.

Let's look at this more closely. I've been to a casino 3 times since
I left LV on 3/12. The next visit is planned for 4/17. I wonder how
biffy-boy will lie about this after continually stating an addiction
requires daily visits?

>
> > >
> > > > You can compare your habit to whatever you like, but the
clear fact is you know you far overdo the casino thing,
> > >
> > > No, I do it just right. It's a personal choice that weighs

ALL

> the positive aspects and negative ones.
> >
> > You HAVE no choice--other than which unhealthy casino to make
your problematic gambling visits to all the time.
>
> Yawn. You just can't come up with anything to counter my facts.
Once again you are looking small and petty.

You call falsely justifying a pathetic habit a fact? HAHA!

No "falsely" involved, just the facts, as usual.

You're so
full of it. You don't "weigh all the pluses & minuses....you simply
cannot wait to get in the car and zoom over to the casino whenever
the urge overtakes you and that gambling addict wife of yours.

3 times in 39 days. Yup, you really nailed that one. LMAO. Let's see
you make another foolish statement. (I'm sure you will).

What a
truly pathetic way to be a 'family'--which in itself is an insult

to

every decent family in this country.

The inner voice speaks about Robs' family life. Listen to it and get
help.

>
> > >
> > > > and that the only way
> > > > to cut back on the exposure to the negatives associated

with

it is to cut way back or quit altogether. Most interests in this
> world by normal people--such as mine with my old cars or even

mine

with my gambling trips, is done in controlled moderation
> > >
> > > Once again, Rob finds that certain risks are "acceptable" for
his
> > > endeavors but not "acceptable" for some one elses. This is
called
> > > hypocracy. Only the person making the risk-reward trade-off

can

> > > determine what is right for them. This is as obvious as it
gets.
> > The
> > > only reason Rob chooses to find fault with APers' decisions

is

to
> > > further his own con. This is also as obvious as it gets.
> >
> > Zzzoooommmm! Right thru the hole in your head again.....but
likely on purpose. Better to expose the hole than admit to the

truth.

>
> My explanation was clear and concise. Your response demonstrated
once
> again that you can't counter a reasonable argument with anything
> remotely intelligent. Do you have any idea what this makes you

look

> like? Your inner self sure does.

I see I've finally sapped all your strength with a clean, clear

dose

of reality.

LMAO. If by reality you mean making a complete fool of yourself, yes,
I absolutely agree.

All your make-believe trade-off nonsense doesn't cut it
when it comes to right vs. wrong and common sense vs. pathological
habit.

Of course it "cuts" it. Just because it trumps all of your lies is
something you will have to deal with.

You've been tapped by the sicknees stick little dicky, and you
really don't have any way out. you'll take your and your wife;s
disgrace to your graves, and decent people will pass by and spit on
both of them because of how you have tried and tried to tell them
your illnesses were OK to have in tainted lives.

ROTFLMAO. I believe your inner voice is trying to tell you something
again.

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

> > > > Forget about trying to make sense with this guy.
> > >
> > > Robs' inner voice (RIV). No disagreement.
> >
> > So that stung, did it??
>
> Nope.

Yup.

Lie.

>
> > >
> > > > Unless you blast
> > > > him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and

what

> he
> > > has
> > > > done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's
> designed
> > to
> > > > make him feel good and no more.
> > >
> > > RIV. A very accurate portrayal of Rob.
> >
> > See what I mean?
>
> Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob
would
> take note ...

when at a loss for words, repeat what the master has said!!!

16 words this time. I guess Biffy-boy has no idea what being "at a
loss for words" means. Not surprising.

>
> > >
> > > > That's all fools like him are about--
> > > > making themselves feel as if they've had the final say,

they

> talk
> > > > themselves into feeling important, and they feel good that
> their
> > > > word is the end of the game.
> > >
> > > RIV. This is what happens to a failure. Robs' life in a
nutshell.
> >
> > See what I mean!!
>
> Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob
would
> take note ...

When at a loss for words, repeat the master!!!

LMAO. You know your inner voice is right. Your life is a failure.
It's not to late, get help.

>
> > >
> > > > He's a low-confidence clown who makes
> > > > believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd feel
> after
> > > > years of abuse?
> > >
> > > RIV. Finally, admitting abuse. This is the first step Rob

needs

> to
> > > take. Listen to your inner voice.
> >
> > Anything that has "abuse the nerds" in it catches my eye. It's
100%
> > fun and zero percent work.
>
> And, just like Biff, it has gotten you nowhere. Listen to your
inner
> voice.

Oh but it has! I gewt ENORMOUS satisfaction in both ridiculing &
humiliating you on every subject, and denying you the right
to 'belong' to that which you so dearly long for in the vp

community.

So for now, all you can do is show your interest by being a problem
gambler!

We can see that your inner voice is telling you how much the rest of
us enjoy seeing you scramble around and look foolish. It's hoping
you'll take note one of these days and get help.

>
> > >
> > > > Now he has what he considers his ultimate weaponry---
> > > > Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney,
nonsense,
> > and
> > > > neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll get over
him.
> > >
> > > RIV. Good advice to anyone reading Robs' posts.
> >
> > Loss of originality (a common geek trait who's reeling from

being

> > used as toilet paper).
>
> Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob
would
> take note ...

Let's talk about how it feels to be toilet paper--used only! Give

us

some insight.

The insight is already there in these inner voice statements. Take
heed, Robbie, listen closely and get help.

[Rob_Singer1]

> > > > > However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand

smoke

> > > > > affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays
inside
> > > > > casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of
> > > his 'defensive
> > > > > DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in

the

> > > casinos
> > > > > make this a non-issue for him,
> > > > >
> > > > > > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every

time

> you
> > > get
> > > > > in a car you're taking a risk.
> > > > >
> > > > > When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!
> > > >
> > > > Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?
> > >
> > > Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but simple
> > truth,
> > > minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??
> >
> > Always, that's why I deal in facts. Why is it you deal in lies?
>
> Then why the need to minimilaze everything so you don't have to
take
> it so hard in the shorts? Kinda suggests something other

than "the

> facts"!

Lie. I don't "minimalize" anything. It makes you look foolish to

keep

asserting these lies and never backing them up.

Even when you can't admit taking it in the shorts, you do. When you
mininimalize what truly affects you all you do is cut yourself short.
Just like with your compulsive gambling--where you have a craving to
find a reason to go out yet again and gamble--you have a pattern of
selling yourself short. You simply just don't know the difference
between good & evil or right & wrong any more - as you so vividly
portray here with your scooting around every issue possible - and
it's all because of the vice you're so firmly in the grips of. It
controls your wretched life! That's all you do in this entire post --
step away from the evil you in reality put yourselves in daily, walk
around the dangers of such idiocy, and then minimalize how it
affects "others" and not you with some double-talking nonsense. Read
it and weep.

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[Rob_Singer1]

> > > > > Unless you blast
> > > > > him with the truth about his insane gambling problem and
what he has done to his wife, he'll give a rambling response that's
> > designed to make him feel good and no more.
> > > >
> > > > RIV. A very accurate portrayal of Rob.
> > >
> > > See what I mean?
> >
> > Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob
> would take note ...
>
> when at a loss for words, repeat what the master has said!!!

16 words this time. I guess Biffy-boy has no idea what being "at a
loss for words" means. Not surprising.

As he falls into the pit once again. Just how much punishment can a
nerd take anyway??

> > > > > That's all fools like him are about--
> > > > > making themselves feel as if they've had the final say,
they talk themselves into feeling important, and they feel good

that their word is the end of the game.

> > > >
> > > > RIV. This is what happens to a failure. Robs' life in a
> nutshell.
> > >
> > > See what I mean!!
> >
> > Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob
> would
> > take note ...
>
> When at a loss for words, repeat the master!!!

LMAO. You know your inner voice is right. Your life is a failure.
It's not to late, get help.

Now he can't count anymore--likely because he was wounded by my
repeated spankings he had to absorb from ME!

> > > > > He's a low-confidence clown who makes
> > > > > believe his way is the only way. How else would a nerd

feel afte years of abuse?

> > > >
> > > > RIV. Finally, admitting abuse. This is the first step Rob
needs to take. Listen to your inner voice.

And did i mention little dicky's low self-esteem? Most addicted
gamblers have it, and most addicted gamblers who involve their
spouses (or 'partners who live in sin as in one guru's case) find
comfort hiding behind their computers while they blab about their
make believe prowess.

> > >
> > > Anything that has "abuse the nerds" in it catches my eye.

It's

> 100%
> > > fun and zero percent work.
> >
> > And, just like Biff, it has gotten you nowhere. Listen to your
> inner
> > voice.
>
> Oh but it has! I gewt ENORMOUS satisfaction in both ridiculing &
> humiliating you on every subject, and denying you the right
> to 'belong' to that which you so dearly long for in the vp
community. So for now, all you can do is show your interest by

being a problem gambler!

We can see that your inner voice is telling you how much the rest

of us enjoy seeing you scramble around and look foolish. It's hoping

you'll take note one of these days and get help.

The only thing you should be hoping for, little dicky, is that you'll
run into the maximum number of addicts similar to you as possible in
those dumps you go to. that way you can at least feel you 'virtually
belong' to that which you will never belong to. Tsk...tsk...tsk.

> > > > > Now he has what he considers his ultimate weaponry---
> > > > > Hiding behind a computer as he doles out his baloney,
> nonsense, and neurotic passages. Just giggle a little and you'll

get over him.

> > > >
> > > > RIV. Good advice to anyone reading Robs' posts.
> > >
> > > Loss of originality (a common geek trait who's reeling from
being used as toilet paper).
> >
> > Yes, inner voice, we can see exactly what you mean. Now, if Rob
> would
> > take note ...
>
> Let's talk about how it feels to be toilet paper--used only! Give
us some insight.

The insight is already there in these inner voice statements. Take
heed, Robbie, listen closely and get help.

Still waiting to hear what it's like being used as toilet
paper.....Only YOU can tell us!

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

[rgmustain]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@...>
wrote:

> > > > > > However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd hand
smoke
> > > > > > affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long stays
> inside
> > > > > > casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of
> > > > his 'defensive
> > > > > > DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems in
the
> > > > casinos
> > > > > > make this a non-issue for him,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk. Every
time
> > you
> > > > get
> > > > > > in a car you're taking a risk.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!
> > > > >
> > > > > Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?
> > > >
> > > > Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but

simple

> > > truth,
> > > > minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??
> > >
> > > Always, that's why I deal in facts. Why is it you deal in

lies?

> >
> > Then why the need to minimilaze everything so you don't have to
> take
> > it so hard in the shorts? Kinda suggests something other
than "the
> > facts"!
>
> Lie. I don't "minimalize" anything. It makes you look foolish to
keep
> asserting these lies and never backing them up.

Even when you can't admit taking it in the shorts, you do. When you
mininimalize what truly affects you all you do is cut yourself

short.

If making you look foolish cuts ones' life short, then I do need to
worry.

Just like with your compulsive gambling--where you have a craving

to

find a reason to go out yet again and gamble--you have a pattern of
selling yourself short.

Do you even understand what "selling yourself short" means? It means
I'm even better than I claim. Thanks.

···

You simply just don't know the difference
between good & evil or right & wrong any more - as you so vividly
portray here with your scooting around every issue possible - and
it's all because of the vice you're so firmly in the grips of. It
controls your wretched life! That's all you do in this entire post -

-

step away from the evil you in reality put yourselves in daily,

walk

around the dangers of such idiocy, and then minimalize how it
affects "others" and not you with some double-talking nonsense.

Read

it and weep.

Don't count on it. I can see your inner voice all over this. Yes, you
are often "wrong". Yes, the way you treat others is "evil". Yes, you
display constant "idiocy". Yes, you "minimalize" the effect this has
had on you and your family. Yes, you "double-talk" with lies and your
con. Your inner voice knows the truth. Get help.

[Rob_Singer1]

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rsing1111" <rsinger1111@>
wrote:
> > > > > > > However, don't mention anything to him about 2nd

hand

> smoke
> > > > > > > affecting HIM or the addict MISSUS on their long

stays

> > inside
> > > > > > > casinos! Once you do that, he'll go into the rage of
> > > > > his 'defensive
> > > > > > > DENIAL' mode, saying how the 'air filtration systems

in

> the
> > > > > casinos
> > > > > > > make this a non-issue for him,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clearly, not a non-issue, but acceptable risk.

Every

> time
> > > you
> > > > > get
> > > > > > > in a car you're taking a risk.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When rendered speechless, minimalizie it!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Words = not speechless. Are you ever right?
> > > > >
> > > > > Just as I said - when left dumbfounded by the hard but
simple
> > > > truth,
> > > > > minimalize it. Can you ever accept reality??
> > > >
> > > > Always, that's why I deal in facts. Why is it you deal in
lies?
> > >
> > > Then why the need to minimilaze everything so you don't have

to

> > take
> > > it so hard in the shorts? Kinda suggests something other
> than "the
> > > facts"!
> >
> > Lie. I don't "minimalize" anything. It makes you look foolish

to

> keep
> > asserting these lies and never backing them up.
>
> Even when you can't admit taking it in the shorts, you do. When

you

> mininimalize what truly affects you all you do is cut yourself
short.

If making you look foolish cuts ones' life short, then I do need

to worry.

there's that minimalization oce again. Can you ever live without
it?? Is your life THAT make believe???

> Just like with your compulsive gambling--where you have a

craving to find a reason to go out yet again and gamble--you have a
pattern of selling yourself short.

Do you even understand what "selling yourself short" means? It

means I'm even better than I claim. Thanks.

Not here. Guess again. Always trying to mince words to look good,
but all you ever really do is profess your extraordinary set of
weaknesses and faults.

> You simply just don't know the difference
> between good & evil or right & wrong any more - as you so

vividly portray here with your scooting around every issue possible -
and it's all because of the vice you're so firmly in the grips of.
It controls your wretched life! That's all you do in this entire
post - step away from the evil you in reality put yourselves in
daily, walk around the dangers of such idiocy, and then minimalize
how it affects "others" and not you with some double-talking
nonsense. Read it and weep.

Don't count on it. I can see your inner voice all over this. Yes,

you

are often "wrong". Yes, the way you treat others is "evil". Yes,

you

display constant "idiocy". Yes, you "minimalize" the effect this

has

had on you and your family. Yes, you "double-talk" with lies and

your

con. Your inner voice knows the truth. Get help.

And just as expected, you show us how to weep.....

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote: