vpFREE2 Forums

Rio cocktail waitresses

#1

I agree, replacing the waitresses is just a dumb idea. If Rio would like to
compete better with the Palms, why not try increasing cashback, adding at
least 1 9/6 JB machine somewhere! (Of course more than 1 would be better,
and some quarter FP dueces might encourage locals to come). And how about
just having some promotions to encourage players to attend - like 2x points
or something?

But singing waitresses? I can just imagine them with full trays attempting
to sing and dance....and spilling drinks. And if they stop to sing and dance
this will no doubt cause them to slow down their regular service.

If the Rio wants dancing in the aisles, they already pay entertainers to sing
and dance in the Masquerade in the Sky show - just have them perform some
throughout the casino.

The Rio already has a lot of free entertainment with the Masquerade in the
Sky show and their parade through the aisles. So they don't really need more
entertainment to get in patrons.

And if this is just a ploy to get in younger, cuter waitresses, that is also
dumb, because many of the waitresses at the Rio are extremely attractive, if
not downright beautiful. And really, I don't think that having gorgeous,
young waitresses does all that much to bring in gamblers. But having
promotions and loose slots does bring in gamblers.

Maybe some Rio executive is reading this board. I would suggest that if you
do a Rio/Harrahs survey you should add a comment requesting looser games and
better VP. Letters to the Rio might also help (they do get read and
answered).

I guess overall I'm somewhat bemused by Rio's attempts to bring in more
people. They are replacing restaurants, but other than adding an Indian one,
the new fare isn't much better/different from the old. And now they want to
bring in yet more entertainment. It all just doesn't make sense. They
already had the Voodoo Lounge and Cafe, yet added Bikinis to get more
"younger, hipper" people.

The bottom line, Rio, is to bring in gamblers, you need promotions and looser
slots!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

I agree, replacing the waitresses is just a dumb idea. If Rio would like

to

compete better with the Palms, why not try increasing cashback, adding at
least 1 9/6 JB machine somewhere!
The bottom line, Rio, is to bring in gamblers, you need promotions and

looser

slots!

Rio has a 100% inventory of "loser" slots & vp. This should be clue #1 to
why profits are down. The Palms has a huge inventory of 100%+ ER machines
and reportedly some of the loosest slots around. The Palms will make money
on this inventory because of volume and other gaming, which results simply
from drawing in "knowledgeable" players who will risk money on OTHER plays .
Also, the percentage of players who can play mistake free "perfect
strategy" AND do not risk a single penny on other less than 100% ER games
(including sports book, table games and other machines) borders on ZERO. By
adding just a few positive expectation games, Rio would attract savvy
visitors and some of the local's bucks. Perhaps the Big Boys at Harrahs,
Park Place and MGM (and the little boys at Suncoast & Orleans) should take a
closer look at the Wal-Mart business model. A casino can increase its
bottom line by making less profit on more volume. The percentage of players
that are going to win in the long term is statistically insignificant in the
grand scheme of a casino business plan. There are some who constantly preach
that casino executives read VP newsgroups and we must be careful what we say
about advantage players and positive return games. I say hogwash. If there
is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others. In the
long run we all lose more than we win. And while it's true that casino
"suits" monitor these sites, so do thousands of players who stay away from
venues which give the player a ZERO "chance to win". In these difficult
economic times, the "suits" need to rethink their business plan if they want
to see more green and less red.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <misscraps@aol.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:32 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses

#3

They're probably trying to attract more tourists from the Strip. The horny cowboys that come to NFR just want to see some T&A. They wouldn't know a full-pay machine if they tripped over it.
   Now how about some scantily clad MALE cocktail servers to give the straight women and the gay men some eye candy?

Elaine
misscraps@aol.com wrote:If Rio would like to
compete better with the Palms, why not try increasing cashback, adding at
least 1 9/6 JB machine somewhere! (Of course more than 1 would be better,
and some quarter FP dueces might encourage locals to come). And how about
just having some promotions to encourage players to attend - like 2x points
or something?

The bottom line, Rio, is to bring in gamblers, you need promotions and looser
slots!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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···

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#4

I say hogwash. If there
is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others.

Well, maybe they believe it, and maybe they don't, but their beliefs
don't mean anything. There are a number of people who have made fortunes
playing video poker. There are still many who win on a consistant basis,
though not as much as in the past. Besides, if everyon was losing, the
casinos would have LOTS of full pay VP to make sure the 'pros' will
be sure to come donate their cash. Your views are simply not consistant
with reality.

The part that confuses me is why you would claim that all gamblers lose.
Do you think this board is filled with liars? Did your own attempts
to win fail and lead you to assume that everyone else must lose also?

QZ

#5

Quadzilla is right; I disagree that all gamblers lose. There are
indeed a precious few who stick only to positive-expectation games.
Nevertheless, I agree with the basic idea of your post, and I agree
that the Harrah's, MGM/Mirage, and (to a lesser extent) Park Place
properties would do well to heed your ideas. A casino should offer
some beatable games. It's great marketing to advertise to the
world, "Hey, come in here and play our games. It's actually possible
to beat us at this!" Of course, smart casino managers know that for
every one person who does beat them, there are a lot of "wannabes"
and people who just play because they know that it CAN be done.

> I agree, replacing the waitresses is just a dumb idea. If Rio

would like

to
> compete better with the Palms, why not try increasing cashback,

adding at

> least 1 9/6 JB machine somewhere!
> The bottom line, Rio, is to bring in gamblers, you need

promotions and

looser
> slots!

Remainder of post snipped...

#6

> I say hogwash. If there
> is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
> LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others.

Well, maybe they believe it, and maybe they don't, but their beliefs
don't mean anything. There are a number of people who have made fortunes
playing video poker. There are still many who win on a consistant basis,
though not as much as in the past. Besides, if everyon was losing, the
casinos would have LOTS of full pay VP to make sure the 'pros' will
be sure to come donate their cash. Your views are simply not consistant
with reality.

The part that confuses me is why you would claim that all gamblers lose.
Do you think this board is filled with liars? Did your own attempts
to win fail and lead you to assume that everyone else must lose also?

I don't just play FPVP. I win (around $7 an hour) playing FPDW. But I also
play craps and bet sports. I find this to be a very moderated priced form
of entertainment. I believe that the number of players who only play FPVP
and never lose is statistically insignificant in todays market (best game is
.25 FPDW). I also believe that a lot more people who claim to win
consistently are in fact losing. I don't think they are a bunch of liars,
just overly optimistic in their bottom line reports. There are VERY FEW
people who are capable of winning over a lifetime. The odds are stacked
against them. There are even fewer players that have made a fortune playing
VP. Those opportunities no longer exist anyway, so what they did in the
past is not relevant today.

To conclude that "if everyone was losing, the casinos would have LOTS of
full pay VP...", is IMHO flawed logic. Hundreds of people win millions of
dollars playing lotteries and megabucks and even keno. BUT, in the end,
it's a losing proposition for all except the house (or state). There are NO
casinos that offer only full pay machines but some offer only short pay
machines. Venues that offer both full pay and short pay machines, do
attract more players (local & vistors, advantage & unenlightened) and will
make more profit following this business plan (eg. Palms). I believe the
only reason ALL Vegas casinos don't have at least some full pay inventory is
because of poor managment decisions based on a combination of bad
information and greed.

If the facts demonstrated that there were a statistically relevant number
of players who consistently beat the house in video poker, the casino would
simply ban them from playing. It is legal to ban a player in Nevada for ANY
reason and this is happens frequnetly in Black Jack, a game where the house
has less of a theoretical advantage than in video poker.

Bottom line is that everyone wants to believe they are winners. Every
casino wants them to believe they are winners. But, if as many people who
claim they win at video poker did win, there would be ZERO full pay games
available. If as many people won as say they do in Las Vegas, the casinos
would all look like the Klondike. And if the casinos wern't so greedy and
misinformed, they would follow a business plan that attracted both types of
players and result in more profits for the house.

#7

   They're probably trying to attract more tourists from the Strip. The

horny cowboys that come to NFR just want to see some T&A. They wouldn't know
a full-pay machine if they tripped over it.

I guess I'm the "exception" to that rule. Rastis is one horny cowboy who
has tripped over many a full-pay machine while ogling at Cocktail
Waitresses. I believe that Tom can testify as an eye witness to the veracity
of that statement! <G>

···

From: "Elaine Rose" <atlanticcityrose@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses

#8

Jeff, that is my point. The precious few that win at FPVP are just like the
few who win the lottery, megabucks or a top keno jackpot. The house still
profits from the overall play of those games. Yes, the house profits less
from FPVP, but profit it does. In today's market in Las Vegas, casinos are
excluding a significant market of "informed" players if their inventory of
full pay video poker games is zero. This is the message we need to get out
to management rather than the frequently proclaimed versions of , "I've
figured out a way to beat the house playing FPVP", which permeate most vp
group postings.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: <jeffrw2@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 2:27 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

Quadzilla is right; I disagree that all gamblers lose. There are
indeed a precious few who stick only to positive-expectation games.

#9

<<I say hogwash. If there
is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others. In the
long run we all lose more than we win.>>

Just for the record and so newbies on this list don't get discouraged because of false information. You state the above like it is a fact; that is just your opinion. I know Brad's and my 12-year record is well into the black - and I know personally scores of others who have such long-term records, and I am sure there are others whom I do not know personally.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Yes, but you're a regular who happens to also be a red-blooded American male. I've had some cowboys proposition me with all the finesse of a bull coming on to a cow in heat. And if you check my photo in the VP Free lunch archives (November), I'm no raving beauty and I don't dress to attract that kind of attention.
   Still, I hope I didn't offend you, and apologize if I did.

Elaine

···

Video Poker Vegas <vpvegas@charter.net> wrote:
I guess I'm the "exception" to that rule. Rastis is one horny cowboy who
has tripped over many a full-pay machine while ogling at Cocktail
Waitresses. I believe that Tom can testify as an eye witness to the veracity
of that statement! <G>

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#11

I compared winning and losing with a friend of mine. We both came to a similar analogy.

People are always bragging about having a "winning system that will bring Las Vegas to it's knees.... "

If I personally ever came up with such a system, the last thing I'm going to do is promote it, sell it or brag about it. I'm going to keep my mouth shut as I quietly head to the bank to make my deposits.

And, if you're not bored with cliches yet, how about the old standard,

        "People who CAN, do! People who CAN'T teach."

I know there are people winning at VP, and probably other gambling ventures such as sports betting, blackjack etc. Some of us... oops, some of them might not want to make public such records.

ADR

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY

"Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it!"

···

At 02:40 PM 2/21/03, you wrote:

[snip]... record is well into the black - and I know personally scores of others who have such long-term records, and I am sure there are others whom I do not know personally.

#12

I don't mean to be argumentative but I consider you to be the exception to
the rule. The fact is, by promoting that it is possible to beat these games
you are insuring that the games will be extinct in the near future. I don't
know of anyone who claims to win consistently playing short pay video poker.
As far as pointing out that my post was opinion, the same could be said of
most any post in the group. Labeling my post as false information falls into
the same category, simply your opinion. The fact is, it takes a lot of hard
work and concentration to master optimum vp strategy and the majority of
players never achieve that level of expertise. NO player can play perfectly
100% of the time as to err is human. If and when they do, there will be
ZERO full pay games available at any venue.

  Rasti$Rulz
                               January 1, 2005
                    Countdown to retirement- 22 months
                 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@lvcm.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

<<I say hogwash. If there
is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others. In the
long run we all lose more than we win.>>

Just for the record and so newbies on this list don't get discouraged

because of false information. You state the above like it is a fact; that
is just your opinion. I know Brad's and my 12-year record is well into the
black - and I know personally scores of others who have such long-term
records, and I am sure there are others whom I do not know personally.

#13

Jean is NOT the exception to the rule.
If you play "close to perfect"
play positive games only, you can win.
By positive, I do NOT mean 100.17% but more like 101.5%.
The extra is to cover the errors, etc.
I personally know more than a dozen "winning " players.

However, if you get 30 royals a year and play every day, you will lose
more than 250 days of the year, break even or win a little on the
other 80

No one wins every day but there are those who do win consistently.
This fact. Not an opinion.

···

On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:21:21 -0600, you wrote:

I don't mean to be argumentative but I consider you to be the exception to
the rule. The fact is, by promoting that it is possible to beat these games
you are insuring that the games will be extinct in the near future. I don't
know of anyone who claims to win consistently playing short pay video poker.
As far as pointing out that my post was opinion, the same could be said of
most any post in the group. Labeling my post as false information falls into
the same category, simply your opinion. The fact is, it takes a lot of hard
work and concentration to master optimum vp strategy and the majority of
players never achieve that level of expertise. NO player can play perfectly
100% of the time as to err is human. If and when they do, there will be
ZERO full pay games available at any venue.

Rasti$Rulz
                              January 1, 2005
                   Countdown to retirement- 22 months
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@lvcm.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

<<I say hogwash. If there
is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others. In the
long run we all lose more than we win.>>

Just for the record and so newbies on this list don't get discouraged

because of false information. You state the above like it is a fact; that
is just your opinion. I know Brad's and my 12-year record is well into the
black - and I know personally scores of others who have such long-term
records, and I am sure there are others whom I do not know personally.

vpFREE Home Page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE

vpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

#14

Elliott, my point exactly. A dozen winning players is statistically
insignificant to the bottom line of a casino. If it was significant, the
winning players would long ago have been barred just like numerous black
jack players who threatened the bottom line.

  Rasti$Rulz

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elliott L. Shapiro" <elliotts@joimail.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

Jean is NOT the exception to the rule.
If you play "close to perfect"
play positive games only, you can win.
By positive, I do NOT mean 100.17% but more like 101.5%.
The extra is to cover the errors, etc.
I personally know more than a dozen "winning " players.

#15

I know there are people winning at VP, and probably other gambling

ventures

such as sports betting, blackjack etc. Some of us... oops, some of

them

might not want to make public such records.

I'll carry it a step further. Someone asked if a poster thinks that
people in this group are liars? Well, really, we gamblers are among
the biggest liars I've ever met! It's one of our more endearing
qualities!!

Ask almost anyone at any time and they'll say, "oh yeah, I'm ahead."
Even more hilarious are the many of us who automatically
respond, "I'm even," when we don't quite want to baldface the
question but at the same time can't possibly say, "I'm behind."

Probably the response I hear the most is "I'm even." Statistically,
being even is probably the toughest thing to be, short term. It's far
easier to be ahead, and even easier to be behind. Sheesh, being even
is tough! <g>

When I go to Vegas next week, and my buddy asks me how I'm doing,
I'll say without a doubt, "I'm even." Maybe, just maybe, I'll say
I'm ahead...but no way will I ever say I'm behind. It just isn't
done. ; )

lb

#16

How true --- these glitterring casinos aren't bui9lt on our winnings.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: lawrenceboxer <ljboxer@earthlink.net>
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 7:24 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: 100% ER

  > I know there are people winning at VP, and probably other gambling
  ventures
  > such as sports betting, blackjack etc. Some of us... oops, some of
  them
  > might not want to make public such records.
  >

  I'll carry it a step further. Someone asked if a poster thinks that
  people in this group are liars? Well, really, we gamblers are among
  the biggest liars I've ever met! It's one of our more endearing
  qualities!!

  Ask almost anyone at any time and they'll say, "oh yeah, I'm ahead."
  Even more hilarious are the many of us who automatically
  respond, "I'm even," when we don't quite want to baldface the
  question but at the same time can't possibly say, "I'm behind."

  Probably the response I hear the most is "I'm even." Statistically,
  being even is probably the toughest thing to be, short term. It's far
  easier to be ahead, and even easier to be behind. Sheesh, being even
  is tough! <g>

  When I go to Vegas next week, and my buddy asks me how I'm doing,
  I'll say without a doubt, "I'm even." Maybe, just maybe, I'll say
  I'm ahead...but no way will I ever say I'm behind. It just isn't
  done. ; )

  lb

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#17

sure

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Video Poker Vegas
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

  Elliott, my point exactly. A dozen winning players is statistically
  insignificant to the bottom line of a casino. If it was significant, the
  winning players would long ago have been barred just like numerous black
  jack players who threatened the bottom line.

    Rasti$Rulz

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Elliott L. Shapiro" <elliotts@joimail.com>
  To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 5:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

  > Jean is NOT the exception to the rule.
  > If you play "close to perfect"
  > play positive games only, you can win.
  > By positive, I do NOT mean 100.17% but more like 101.5%.
  > The extra is to cover the errors, etc.
  > I personally know more than a dozen "winning " players.

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              ADVERTISEMENT
             
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

Sure sure

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Elliott L. Shapiro
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 6:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

  Jean is NOT the exception to the rule.
  If you play "close to perfect"
  play positive games only, you can win.
  By positive, I do NOT mean 100.17% but more like 101.5%.
  The extra is to cover the errors, etc.
  I personally know more than a dozen "winning " players.

  However, if you get 30 royals a year and play every day, you will lose
  more than 250 days of the year, break even or win a little on the
  other 80

  No one wins every day but there are those who do win consistently.
  This fact. Not an opinion.

  On Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:21:21 -0600, you wrote:

  >I don't mean to be argumentative but I consider you to be the exception to
  >the rule. The fact is, by promoting that it is possible to beat these games
  >you are insuring that the games will be extinct in the near future. I don't
  >know of anyone who claims to win consistently playing short pay video poker.
  >As far as pointing out that my post was opinion, the same could be said of
  >most any post in the group. Labeling my post as false information falls into
  >the same category, simply your opinion. The fact is, it takes a lot of hard
  >work and concentration to master optimum vp strategy and the majority of
  >players never achieve that level of expertise. NO player can play perfectly
  >100% of the time as to err is human. If and when they do, there will be
  >ZERO full pay games available at any venue.
  >
  > Rasti$Rulz
  > January 1, 2005
  > Countdown to retirement- 22 months
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven
  >
  >----- Original Message -----
  >From: "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@lvcm.com>
  >To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
  >Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:40 PM
  >Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER
  >
  >
  >> <<I say hogwash. If there
  >> is one thing the casino executive know for sure, it is that ALL GAMBLERS
  >> LOSE. Some of us simply lose at a much slower pace than others. In the
  >> long run we all lose more than we win.>>
  >>
  >> Just for the record and so newbies on this list don't get discouraged
  >because of false information. You state the above like it is a fact; that
  >is just your opinion. I know Brad's and my 12-year record is well into the
  >black - and I know personally scores of others who have such long-term
  >records, and I am sure there are others whom I do not know personally.
  >>
  >
  >
  >vpFREE Home Page:
  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE
  >
  >vpFREE Links:
  >http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html
  >
  >
  >
  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >

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              ADVERTISEMENT
             
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

I don't think they are a bunch of liars, just overly optimistic
in their bottom line reports. There are VERY FEW
people who are capable of winning over a lifetime.

This is a very different statement than ALL GAMBLERS LOSE.

QZ

#20

Not to belabor the point but it is a fact that all gamblers lose (at some
point). Nobody wins every time they gamble.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Quad Zilla" <quadzilla666@earthlink.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 12:02 AM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Rio cocktail waitresses & 100% ER

> I don't think they are a bunch of liars, just overly optimistic
> in their bottom line reports. There are VERY FEW
> people who are capable of winning over a lifetime.

This is a very different statement than ALL GAMBLERS LOSE.