vpFREE2 Forums

Revel Bet

#1

On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
card. We're looking for other things.

But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.

The "honoring matchplay"
part of their promotion is not part of the bet.

Neither Richard
nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.

Bob
                 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Very interesting!!! Hopefully all the rules are available in writing at The Revel.

···

To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
From: bobdancervp@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 12:26:11 -0700
Subject: [vpFREE] Revel Bet

      On last week's Gambling with an Edge"

radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to

whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate

promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to

be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's

card. We're looking for other things.

But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't

violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If

they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.

The "honoring matchplay"

part of their promotion is not part of the bet.

Neither Richard

nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we

suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE

discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.

Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I feel like Eddie Murphy in Trading Places after hearing the two codgers making a bet about him.
I got married four hours ago so Im guessing I am out too.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
card. We're looking for other things.

But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.

The "honoring matchplay"
part of their promotion is not part of the bet.

Neither Richard
nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.

Bob
                 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

So where does adoption of new rules, that enhance Revel's position, fall? For example, eliminating FSP use on video poker (or at least on machines with more liberal paytables).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
card. We're looking for other things.

But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.

The "honoring matchplay"
part of their promotion is not part of the bet.

Neither Richard
nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.

Bob
                 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

It seems to me that they can make the promo favorable to them without needing to violate the rules of the promo:

1. Get rid of high denominations to eliminate scenarios where someone would get a big early hit and quit. Plus with low denominations, if a lot of people quit after only being down 10k or so, there's a greater chance that people skip some of the freeplay pickups because the amounts aren't as big.
2. Lower payables to the point that it is highly unlikely for people to be ahead after significant play.
3. Only allow freeplay on select slot machines with the minimum legal return. Limiting which machines customers can use freeplay on also makes it easier to monitor whether people are collecting freeplay for other people. I'm sure there are a lot of out-of-towners hoping to have others collect freeplay for them so that they don't have to make so many trips.
4. With that in mind, maybe even make people go to the desk and show ID to have the freeplay loaded.
5. Have a good investment strategy for the large interest free loan the customers are giving them.

And yet it wouldn't surprise if they still end up modifying the rules...

#6

Well if someone is going to go against my advice and take this shot I suggest they make it there Monday morning cause it probably won't last beyond the first or second $100K royal.
What they're likely to do is put BIG stickers on all VP machines over $1 saying "This machine not eligible for money back promotion".
Paytables don't matter-even 6/5 JOB is a big player edge. Too big to last.
The real side bet would be-can you walk into Revel on July 31 and play $25 VP machines on this promotion?
Not a chance-unless Revel has Larry Volk's ghost programing their high-limit machines!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "seedub49" <seedub49@...> wrote:

It seems to me that they can make the promo favorable to them without needing to violate the rules of the promo:

1. Get rid of high denominations to eliminate scenarios where someone would get a big early hit and quit. Plus with low denominations, if a lot of people quit after only being down 10k or so, there's a greater chance that people skip some of the freeplay pickups because the amounts aren't as big.
2. Lower payables to the point that it is highly unlikely for people to be ahead after significant play.
3. Only allow freeplay on select slot machines with the minimum legal return. Limiting which machines customers can use freeplay on also makes it easier to monitor whether people are collecting freeplay for other people. I'm sure there are a lot of out-of-towners hoping to have others collect freeplay for them so that they don't have to make so many trips.
4. With that in mind, maybe even make people go to the desk and show ID to have the freeplay loaded.
5. Have a good investment strategy for the large interest free loan the customers are giving them.

And yet it wouldn't surprise if they still end up modifying the rules...

#7

Harry wrote:

So where does adoption of new rules, that enhance Revel's position, fall? For example, eliminating FSP use on video poker (or at least on machines with more liberal paytables).

__._,_.
                         
good question. We haven't specified all of the details of the bet. We're friends and the amount of the bet is small and we're going to talk about the result on the radio --- so neither of us is likely to take a shot. We might have Michael Shackleford be the 'judge' if we can't otherwise agree

As to the case you mentioned, I would say the spirit of the bet is that if 6-5 JoB or better is available to play off your free play --- that'll be considered Revel playing fair. If the best game eligible is worse than that percentage-wise, Munchkin wins the bet

Bob

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

To a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail. How they allow you to capture the freeplay is really not an issue. As Bob pointed out even if you cash the freeplay on slots you still have a large edge.

I hear they have already removed $25 coin VP so the erosion has begun.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

Harry wrote:
> So where does adoption of new rules, that enhance Revel's position, fall? For example, eliminating FSP use on video poker (or at least on machines with more liberal paytables).
>
> __._,_.
>
>
>
> good question. We haven't specified all of the details of the bet. We're friends and the amount of the bet is small and we're going to talk about the result on the radio --- so neither of us is likely to take a shot. We might have Michael Shackleford be the 'judge' if we can't otherwise agree

As to the case you mentioned, I would say the spirit of the bet is that if 6-5 JoB or better is available to play off your free play --- that'll be considered Revel playing fair. If the best game eligible is worse than that percentage-wise, Munchkin wins the bet

Bob
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

On Jun 28, 2013, at 10:25 PM, "seedub49" <seedub49@yahoo.com> wrote (truncated):

4. With that in mind, maybe even make people go to the desk and show ID to have the freeplay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

Sent from my iPhone

#10

Larry Feldman is currently at Revel and reported that all 99% games at all denominations have been downgraded and that there is nothing available above the $5.00 level ( No $10-$25 available in the entire casino)!!! This is how they are running their great promotion!!!!!

···

--- On Sat, 6/29/13, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 29, 2013, 12:47 PM

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 28, 2013, at 10:25 PM, "seedub49" <seedub49@yahoo.com> wrote (truncated):

4. With that in mind, maybe even make people go to the desk and show ID to have the freeplay

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it:

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "RWM" <rwmunchkin@...> wrote:

I hear they have already removed $25 coin VP so the erosion has begun.

#12

They have removed everything above $5.00 and have downgraded all games from the 99% level. According to Larry who is there now and not playing!

···

--- On Sat, 6/29/13, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 29, 2013, 1:23 PM

      --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "RWM" <rwmunchkin@...> wrote:

I hear they have already removed $25 coin VP so the erosion has begun.

High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it:

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

Revel Bad Gamblers wanted!

Well there are always progressive slots.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, martin stern <historyman1943@...> wrote:

They have removed everything above $5.00 and have downgraded all games from the 99% level. According to Larry who is there now and not playing!

--- On Sat, 6/29/13, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, June 29, 2013, 1:23 PM

Â

      --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "RWM" <rwmunchkin@> wrote:

> I hear they have already removed $25 coin VP so the erosion has begun.

High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it:

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

You just linked to a 2007 event that helped cause Caesars to remove all the decent VP and decent mgmt folks as well.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "RWM" <rwmunchkin@> wrote:
> I hear they have already removed $25 coin VP so the erosion has begun.

High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it:

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html

#15

No shocker. It bit the dust before the promotion even started. Hopefully people took my advice and did not make reservations or they are going to be swallowing some expensive funnel cakes.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, martin stern <historyman1943@...> wrote:

Larry Feldman is currently at Revel and reported that all 99% games at all denominations have been downgraded and that there is nothing available above the $5.00 level ( No $10-$25 available in the entire casino)!!! This is how they are running their great promotion!!!!!

--- On Sat, 6/29/13, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:

From: Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 29, 2013, 12:47 PM

Â

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 28, 2013, at 10:25 PM, "seedub49" <seedub49@...> wrote (truncated):

> 4. With that in mind, maybe even make people go to the desk and show ID to have the freeplay

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#16

Headline should read - REVEL – LOSERS WANTED

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
richard d
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 5:23 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet

Revel Bad Gamblers wanted!

Well there are always progressive slots.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , martin
stern <historyman1943@...> wrote:

They have removed everything above $5.00 and have downgraded all games

from the 99% level. According to Larry who is there now and not playing!

--- On Sat, 6/29/13, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Bet
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 29, 2013, 1:23 PM

Â

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "RWM"

<rwmunchkin@> wrote:

> I hear they have already removed $25 coin VP so the erosion has begun.

High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it:

http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#17

NOTI, there's a little more to this story in the link than just Richard Brodie's blog post of April 26, 2007. In the blog he doesn't appear to be that knowledgeable of video poker. I don't think he knew the difference between FPDW, NSUD or Ugly Ducks. All he did was request that they put a certain denom machine in, he was a deuce player, and got very lucky in the short term. He would have booked a win even on Ugly Ducks. But because he didn't return to play after they changed the paytable they undoubtedly figured him for a pro.

This comes from memory but it was in the poker forums at the time that a couple of months after the above event a poker player showed up at the WSOP and was told by Harrah's execs he was 86'd from all Harrah's properties for taking advantage of them on the $100 machine at Caesaar's. The 86'ing hit the poker forums and all the internet poker news sites. Probably because of the bad publicity they were garnering, Harrah's relented and allowed him to play the WSOP.

I couldn't remember the name of the poker player involved so I googled Richard Brodie, and sure enough, it was him.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it: http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html

#18

What does Revel have (or still have) in multiline VP, denomination-wise? vpFREE2 doesn't list anything. Videopoker.com notes a number of multiline games at Revel, but omits game variants and denoms.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, martin stern <historyman1943@...> wrote:

They have removed everything above $5.00 and have downgraded all games from the 99% level. According to Larry who is there now and not playing!

#19

Congratulations on your recent wedding vows.
Were you multi-tasking when you typed the posting? Or did you use speech recognition software? I got more.....

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richard d" <cdgnpc@...> wrote:

I feel like Eddie Murphy in Trading Places after hearing the two codgers making a bet about him.
I got married four hours ago so Im guessing I am out too.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@> wrote:
>
> On last week's Gambling with an Edge"
> radio show, co-host Richard Munchkin and I made a $200 bet as to
> whether Revel would honor the terms of the up-to-$100,000 loss rebate
> promotion. We're expecting worsening pay tables and expecting players to
> be thrown out for violating rules --- such as playing on someone else's
> card. We're looking for other things.
>
>
> But if they renege on payments or throw out players who didn't
> violate the rules, then Richard would win the bet and I would lose. If
> they honor the promotion as advertised, I win the bet.
>
> The "honoring matchplay"
> part of their promotion is not part of the bet.
>
> Neither Richard
> nor I are flying to AC to take advantage of this promotion but we
> suspect many vpFREE members are --- or are active on the AC vpFREE
> discussion group. So if Revel reneges, please post it here.
>
> Bob
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#20

Bjaygold on this board in 2007 sayz:
"He knew exactly what he was playing, though he might not have been in
practice on the strategy for that game. After all, he plays much
higher denominations than FPDW is usually available at. Half an hour on his laptop would have taught him the basic strategy if needed.
And he only plays with an edge, though that might include perceived
comp value. He is one very smart person! That's how he became "some rich guy" in the first place!"

(My recollection is he was the inventor of Microsoft Word and retired with 3% of the stock. Also, think it was Paladin who said Brodie feigned ignorance in his blog in an attempt to keep a low profile).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
>
> High rollers can usually request whatever machine they want, and get it: http://www.brodietech.com/liontales/2007/04/lucky-me.html
>
>
NOTI, there's a little more to this story in the link than just Richard Brodie's blog post of April 26, 2007. In the blog he doesn't appear to be that knowledgeable of video poker. I don't think he knew the difference between FPDW, NSUD or Ugly Ducks. All he did was request that they put a certain denom machine in, he was a deuce player, and got very lucky in the short term. He would have booked a win even on Ugly Ducks. But because he didn't return to play after they changed the paytable they undoubtedly figured him for a pro.

This comes from memory but it was in the poker forums at the time that a couple of months after the above event a poker player showed up at the WSOP and was told by Harrah's execs he was 86'd from all Harrah's properties for taking advantage of them on the $100 machine at Caesaar's. The 86'ing hit the poker forums and all the internet poker news sites. Probably because of the bad publicity they were garnering, Harrah's relented and allowed him to play the WSOP.

I couldn't remember the name of the poker player involved so I googled Richard Brodie, and sure enough, it was him.