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Prelude to Post of Dr. William G. McCown Q&A

Prelude to Post of Dr. William G. McCown Q&A
or
Why Should I Care?

If you are unfamiliar with Dr. William G. McCown, he is one of the foremost authorities on problem gambling in America, and author of several books on the subject. His book Best Possible Odds, published in 2002, was a call to arms for the entire psychological community to give problem gambling more attention. The call was heard. In the decade since, more research and advance in the field has occurred than in the century before.

But why should you care?

If you are a frequent follower of Video Poker related forums, the odds are you don't currently have a gambling problem. But could you ever, and do you perhaps know someone that might? The intention of the interview, which I will be posting soon, was not to help people who already have gambling problems. Its primary intent is to outline and highlight risk factors for developing problems and to detail some basic good practices to avoid issues. What this means to you:

If you are new to gambling and want it to always remain fun and guilt free, the information in this article may be able to help improve your gambling experience and your enjoyment...and...

Turns out, many of the things that have the potential to make us better gamblers help us in all aspects of life; quantifying risk, making good decisions, not judging decisions by their outcomes, being free from biases, etc... The current and amazingly successful new treatment strategy for problem gambling involves something called cognitive behavioral therapy, which has grown out of psychology's new understanding of heuristics. If you haven't heard of heuristics before, here's something to whet your appetite.

Heuristics: How it got started.
The Nobel Laureate Daniel Kahneman had just finished doing a great deal of research into positive and negative reinforcement and had concluded that in all cases he had looked at, rewarding good behavior worked better than punishing negative behavior. He took his research on the road and found himself on an Israeli Air Force base explaining to flight instructors about his findings to help them improve military training. The reception he got was not as expected. Just short of calling him a complete idiot, the consensus between all the instructors was as follows:

1.You may have done all this research in your lab, but that's not how it works in the real world. (Sound familiar?)
2.If someone does great and you compliment them they always get worse.
3.If someone screws up and you scream and chastise them they always get better.

Proving his strength as a scientist, he did not ignore this real world information in lieu of his laboratory results. He asked the Air Force if he could conduct a study into what the instructors were telling him and they consented. Three and a half years later, here's what he found.

1.The instructors were absolutely right about what they had noticed. People did get worse after being complimented and they did indeed get better after being screamed at.
2.The instructors were completely wrong as to the source and causation of the facts.
3.The reason people tended to get worse after being complimented was because the instructors were only complimenting them after exceptionally good performances. Did you catch the word, "exceptionally" in that last sentence? By definition, exceptional things are rare and uncommon. Simple regression to mean indicates that it was highly unlikely that the student pilots would do as well after having done exceptionally well.
4.The exact same dynamic was true for the people being screamed at. Though a strong talking to might be in order after flying a plane into the base commissary, it's just not that likely that the same pilot would do it two days in a row.

He proved unequivocally that positive reinforcement was indeed better for training military pilots, though not by much. The study concluded that nothing the instructors did had much effect on the pilots at all. Their innate ability had more to do with their performance than anything else. That ability was simply being obfuscated by random factors, like the weather or equipment failure, over which neither the instructor nor the pilots had any control.

Dr. Kahneman's final conclusions were that people can grossly misinterpret information and come to not only wrong conclusions, but in some cases answers that are diametrically opposed to reality—all thanks to the normal common ways our brains process information. Did you catch the words "normal" and "common" there? This was a case of sane normal healthy people being 100% totally wrong, due to nothing other than normal thought. He found this very interesting.

He teamed up with Doctor Amos Tversky and now, after nearly half a century of research, the human race finally possesses the knowledge of why intelligent healthy people don't always make the best decisions, and why people come to different conclusions with identical information.

That information, combined with other research, has given us cognitive behavioral therapy, and it's useful information to ALL...not just problem gamblers...not just would-be gamblers...not just gamblers...

Gambling helps us in the identification of cognitive biases. They are very hard to detect in everyday life, but they become obvious if not omnipresent inside casinos. Find a person making a bad decision in a casino, and the smart money says you have found someone employing an error prone heuristic, with at least mild cognitive distortion. Identification, of course, is only the first step because the very self-same heuristics that gave rise to the bad decision often make it hard or impossible for people to understand what they've done wrong, even if it is explained to them...as was the case with the flight instructors in the story above. As always, the first step to solving any problem is knowing you have one. And if you do manage to beat the odds and identify a thought process that is less than optimal in a casino, the odds are very good that the information will help you for the rest of your life and the lives of your children as well.

Heuristics is a new science and its application in cognitive behavioral therapy has the potential to be one of the greatest turning points in the history of mankind. Turns out the very same things that are being used so successfully to treat gambling problems also work to prevent them, and could help us all think better.

If there is any aspect of life that wouldn't be improved by thinking better, I can't think of it.

I'll post the interview in one week. ~FK

Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.

Since this is vpFREE I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.

State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.

I set in the end Machines because it is easyer to get out of the seat.
Nick

···

________________________________
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Prelude to Post of Dr. William G. McCown Q&A
  

Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.

Since this is videopoker.com I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.

State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like end machines as there is more room, easier to get in and out, easier to get a drink or assistance if needed, and cuts the odd by 50% of sitting next to someone that annoys me! :slight_smile:

Fred, Atl...

fjhs3@aol.com

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Hapycro1929 <hapycro1929@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 23, 2012 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Prelude to Post of Dr. William G. McCown Q&A

I set in the end Machines because it is easyer to get out of the seat.
Nick

________________________________
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 4:57 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Prelude to Post of Dr. William G. McCown Q&A
  
Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.

Since this is videopoker.com I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.

State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Looking forward to the interview.

The dog training community is slowly learning that positive reinforcement indeed works better in learning than avoidance-based punishment - something I have been working with for thirty years.

Of course that has nothing to do with discussing video poker except in the most abstract way.

But I'm interested in hearing how Dr. McCown relates these ideas to gambling issues.

Valerie

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6913 (20120224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's an interview not a book, so what you will be able to get from it is how effective cognitive behavioral therapy has been over conventional problem gambling treatment, and you'll get to hear from the Doctor how common these issues are amongst gamblers.

If you want to know exactly what "cognitive behavioral therapy" is, you'll have to wait until I can write up a (not)brief description of all it entails, or read a book on the subject.

The subject is vast...

What you'll get from the interview is its importance.

Even without going into detail, I believe the interview is over 5000 words.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:
But I'm interested in hearing how Dr. McCown relates these ideas to gambling issues.

Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.

I thought that since this was vpFREE, a site devoted to VP, I'd see tons of chatter. I could provide a few to get the ball rolling, but that would defeat the purpose, since I'm more interested in what's interesting to all of you.

I already know what I think...or at least I think I do.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.

Since this is vpFREE I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.

State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.

The concept must be above my pay grade. I play VP to win $$.
As long as the play is positive it is worth my time and risk.
I personally do not understand other people's motivation to
play any casino game for a result the would yield less in the long run. However, this is still a free country, so as long as one can afford it, each to his own.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.

I thought that since this was vpFREE, a site devoted to VP, I'd see tons of chatter. I could provide a few to get the ball rolling, but that would defeat the purpose, since I'm more interested in what's interesting to all of you.

I already know what I think...or at least I think I do.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.
>
> Since this is vpFREE I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.
>
> State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.
>

I live in an area where there are plenty of machine players but no one has any concept of how a video poker or video keno game works. Here's one of the misconceptions I observe: If you see someone dump a bunch of money in a machine without hitting anything, then that's the machine you want to play because it's due to hit. The only thing I can attribute to this way of thinking is just pure ignorance.

And the other morning I was in a casino checking meters. The slot attendent, a twentysomething kid, asked if he could help me find a game. I said I was checking the meters and said "why should I play for a low meter when I can play for a high one?" His response was "I've found the game plays better when the meter is low." I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and wasn't suffering the fool very well. Not finding a play I walked out the door muttering to myself about dumasses and idiots.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.

OK that will do for a talking point.

So in your opinion, if I understand you, playing machines with a negative expectancy qualifies as a misconception to you, and you don't understand why people do it. I'll try to answer.

I'm sure people are gong to disagree with you, so I won't get involved in that, but here's what I know about the heuristic that may be involved in the dynamic.

The Availability Heuristic, makes things which are more easily remembered dominate our decision making process. Combined with reduced sensitivity to negative stimuli and increased sensitivity to positive stimuli a net negative situation can be enjoyable to some people.

Imagine a totally hypothetical situation where flipping a coin heads was positive, and having it come up tails was negative. Now imagine that the person flipping the coin remembers disproportionately the times they win over the times they lose. And lastly try to imagine that they don't "feel" the loss that much, but they get very excited by the wins.

In this fashion one could derive enjoyment from flipping a coin even though the activity was net neutral from a financial point of view.

Does that help explain it?

It's hard to put a price on enjoyment and entertainment, and I see no fundamental problem with money spent on entertainment as long as people know that's what they are doing.

The line of "problem" is only crossed if the think they are winning when they are not. (Here I'm not talking about expectancy, I'm talking about actual results.) The easiest way to avoid this trap is keeping accurate lifetime records. Your brain might only remember the wins, but a piece of paper should be immune to this heuristic.

~FK

The concept must be above my pay grade. I play VP to win $$.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mason7" <7711-jimmason@...> wrote:

As long as the play is positive it is worth my time and risk.
I personally do not understand other people's motivation to
play any casino game for a result the would yield less in the long run. However, this is still a free country, so as long as one can afford it, each to his own.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.
>
> I thought that since this was vpFREE, a site devoted to VP, I'd see tons of chatter. I could provide a few to get the ball rolling, but that would defeat the purpose, since I'm more interested in what's interesting to all of you.
>
> I already know what I think...or at least I think I do.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
> >
> > Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.
> >
> > Since this is vpFREE I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.
> >
> > State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.
> >
>

Another good example of a misconception. The kid may even have been talking from actual experience and things he witnessed himself, and his observations may even have been accurate. Exactly like the Air Force Flight Instructors, his major mistake might have been failing to account for randomness, and connecting dots that were never related.

I believe the heuristic most likely to cause such thought would be the representativeness heuristic.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.
>
>
I live in an area where there are plenty of machine players but no one has any concept of how a video poker or video keno game works. Here's one of the misconceptions I observe: If you see someone dump a bunch of money in a machine without hitting anything, then that's the machine you want to play because it's due to hit. The only thing I can attribute to this way of thinking is just pure ignorance.

And the other morning I was in a casino checking meters. The slot attendent, a twentysomething kid, asked if he could help me find a game. I said I was checking the meters and said "why should I play for a low meter when I can play for a high one?" His response was "I've found the game plays better when the meter is low." I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and wasn't suffering the fool very well. Not finding a play I walked out the door muttering to myself about dumasses and idiots.

I think I might have missed a post - did you post the interview yet?

Valerie

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6915 (20120225) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll be posting it March 1st. ~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:

I think I might have missed a post - did you post the interview yet?

Valerie

A good one that I always hear is that the "pay scale on video poker doesn't matter."Ive talked to people that believe that they are programmed just like slots and the higher pay scale is just to attract players. Ive shown them the math and they still insist on their belief. I just explain it like this, if the pay scale is only to attract players why wouldn't every casino have super high pay scales? They pretty much stop after that.

···

> Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.
>

I guess the one that I hear the most is, "I don't use my player's club card as I never seem to hit or win when that is in". Or, at least some variable of that sentence!

      A good one that I always hear is that the "pay scale on video poker doesn't matter."Ive talked to people that believe that they are programmed just like slots and the higher pay scale is just to attract players.

···

From: dealt4oak@yahoo.com

I wanted to address the misconception that you posted about end machines paying more. It can be seen in two ways, we see it as not correct because we know the math behind VP machines, but the average person just sees the hits they witness when they are walking down the isles of machines. The average joe sees more hits on these machines because they are played more often and the amount of hands played on these machines allows for these hits. No one can deny end machines are not played more frequently. You dont see hits on a machine that is not played, thus, the idea of the end machines are luckier comes into play. Slot directors use this thought in the placement in their reel slots at many casinos. Slots such as Double Diamond and Red, White and Blue 7s are placed at the ends of isles because they are a high frequency hit machine. The hits are small but this allows people walking by to see "more" hits, which entices them to play. As multipliers go up the frequency goes down such as the 10X or 12X machines, but the jackpots are big. When I walk into a casino and walk to the other side to sit at my machine I definitely notice people hitting quads or slot jackpots on the end because its right in front of me.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Here's what I was hoping to see in this thread. Above is a really good real world example of where real people, in this case flight instructors, came to exactly the wrong conclusions even though they're observations were correct.

Since this is vpFREE I thought people might want to chime in with VP related cognitive errors like thinking that end machines are luckier, because they hit more.

State a casino misconception and then talk about what causes it. You're on your own for a few days, but I'll check in on Saturday.

Ive actually used that excuse but for other reasons. Sometimes Im in a casino that I normally dont play at but decided to play a quick session. I get lazy or just refuse to wait in line for a card especially if Im not going to play there often enough to matter. I get other players or random people walking by asking me if I will insert their card to earn them points for a gift or meal. That is one thing I refuse to do, earn someone else points(family or close friend is an exception.) I just give them that line about not being lucky with a players card.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, peter boyd <boyd_peter@...> wrote:

I guess the one that I hear the most is, "I don't use my player's club card as I never seem to hit or win when that is in". Or, at least some variable of that sentence!

From: dealt4oak@...

      A good one that I always hear is that the "pay scale on video poker doesn't matter."Ive talked to people that believe that they are programmed just like slots and the higher pay scale is just to attract players.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dealt4oak" <dealt4oak@...> wrote: A good one that I always hear is that the "pay scale on video poker doesn't matter."Ive talked to people that believe that they are programmed just like slots and the higher pay scale is just to attract players. Ive shown them the math and they still insist on their belief. I just explain it like this, if the pay scale is only to attract players why wouldn't every casino have super high pay scales? They pretty much stop after that.

That's one that is so common and so complicated it would take a whole book to explain it.

One interesting thing to consider is that for people playing negative expectancy machines with a set loss limit, the only thing that changes for them is time.

On a worse pay-table they may lose faster, but they end up losing the same amount they would have on a better pay-table. Looked at from the point of view of time wastage the worse machines ARE better.

Of course people that play negative expectancy machines don't look at time they spend in a casino as "wasted", and most are looking to waste more of it. Not always!

At least once during my career I gave a strategy to a non-pro and showed her some better machines at her job, where she liked to play after work. A couple of weeks later I found out she was furious with me, because now it took her 4 times longer to lose her $40 and go home.

If you find someone with this belief that the pay-table makes no difference, it's very hard to convince them otherwise. My best guess is that this is due to cognitive dissonance and sunk-cost bias. It can also be because they don't really want to win and prefer to lose, so for them worse is truly better.

Those sad folks probably don't post on vpFREE, but they are out there.

~FK

The biggest misconception that I see all the time is people avoiding playing a particular machine because "it just hit." If the previous player shows a big cash out amount they play another machine. That and the idiocy of changing machines in the same bank because, after a minimal amount of play, they decide the machine is "cold." Then there are the folks who keep cashing out and putting the ticket back in. What does that do besides make the machine run out of paper?

···

________________________________
From: Mickey <mickeycrimm@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2012 3:32 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Prelude to Post of Dr. William G. McCown Q&A
  

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Wow...I'm surprised that in two days no one has posted their favorite casino misconception and discussed what heuristic might cause it.

I live in an area where there are plenty of machine players but no one has any concept of how a video poker or video keno game works. Here's one of the misconceptions I observe: If you see someone dump a bunch of money in a machine without hitting anything, then that's the machine you want to play because it's due to hit. The only thing I can attribute to this way of thinking is just pure ignorance.

And the other morning I was in a casino checking meters. The slot attendent, a twentysomething kid, asked if he could help me find a game. I said I was checking the meters and said "why should I play for a low meter when I can play for a high one?" His response was "I've found the game plays better when the meter is low." I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and wasn't suffering the fool very well. Not finding a play I walked out the door muttering to myself about dumasses and idiots.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, peter boyd <boyd_peter@...> wrote: I guess the one that I hear the most is, "I don't use my player's club card as I never seem to hit or win when that is in". Or, at least some variable of that sentence!

Ahh...yes, the old I do better with no player card trick.

Here's the problem, and why this gets started: From any given point in time there are only two ways to go, up or down. Pause, do something different, and then you'll either do worse or better from that imaginary point of demarcation you created in your own mind on.

Half the people that try playing without a card, do worse and resume playing with one. The other half do better, and link their improved results with the change they made. Once they decide they are doing better due to no card it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy, because they now compare how they are doing to an imaginary worse case scenario and never go back.

Scientists would say the belief lacks falsifiability. If someone makes the statement, "I do better playing without a card, there's no way to prove them wrong, because they have no 'playing with a card' results to compare them to. In science things that can't be proved wrong are considered non-scientific. ~FK

The primary bias involved is confirmation bias.