There was also a documentary. A&E, I think.
Chandler
···
At 10:29 PM 9/7/2004, you wrote:
There was a book written on the American Coin saga a few years ago.
Pep Talk needed - please help!
Jodi's Mail wrote:
I AGREE. THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. A LOT OF PROS ARE BEGINNING TO
WONDER..EVEN ME, WHO WOULD OF NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS IN MY WHOLE 10 YRS
OF PLAY REGARGLESS OF MY TERRIBLE LOSING STREAKS IN THE PAST. JODIE
snip
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
> wrote
> >
> ... I've NEVER seen--or heard
> of for that matter--Gaming officials marching into a casino floor
> unannounced and grabbing a VP machine, to have it taken back to the
> lab. I know how easy it would be to, for instance, have the A's come
> up slightly less often, or the 2's on a DW machine. Just a little
> biasing on the part of thr "RNG" (there is no such thing as an
> actual Random Number Generator) and there goes our 0.7% advantage,
> poof, just like that. Just a thought...I don't like the idea of
> spending $1 million bucks (that's what we dollar players shove into
> the machines in a year) and not being SURE everything is on the
> level.
snip
Well, a combination of ...
1.) ... the risk of an anonymous tip by a disgruntled casino employee, pinpointing the exact machine and how it is rigged, to a ...
2.) ... public official or gaming commission member who wants to make a name for himself, coupled with ...
3.) the logic that the casino already has, on average, enough of an edge to not want to risk its lucrative business trying to gain maybe just a fraction of a percent by cheating.
This assumes that the laws permit a gaming commission member, either on his own whim or at the prodding of a bureaucrat, to enter a casino at any time and pick any machine for inspection, without a search warrant; I assume that the laws are set up that way, and if they aren't, they should be. With the ability to walk in at any time and pick any machine without explanation or justification, the casinos wouldn't have any way of knowing which, if any, employee had ratted them out, but even if those in the know are so limited, there is still a substantial risk that they would be reported. I know that in that particular business there is a chance of a car bomb or a visit in the middle of the night from very unfriendly people, but when the consequences could cost millions or even billions of dollars to big industry creating a real incentive for all sorts of crime including murder, there are still some courageous (or crazy) folks who will blow the whistle. In dealing possibly with organized crime, I would assume that the witness protection program could be used, as well as handsome rewards for information.
The above also presumes that the edge from cheating would be small enough to not make the gamble of cheating worthwhile to the casino. I would hope that the fine and risk of loss of license, as well as bad public relations, would be so great that they wouldn't want to take the chance. Of course, being just a recreational player myself, I don't lose too much sleep worrying about that sort of thing; I am quite happy to lose a small session stake each visit in exchange for a great time and relatively generous comps. To me the gambling loss is the cost of my entertainment/hobby. The fact that maybe it is costing me an average of $80.00 instead of $75.00 a day, given my satisfaction with all that I get for that money anyway, doesn't cause me too much concern.
Just my two cents.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
That's why they call it gambling. You fight the odds and you fight the
integrity of the game owner.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 2:47 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Poop Talk
Jodi's Mail wrote:
I AGREE. THIS IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. A LOT OF PROS ARE BEGINNING
TO WONDER..EVEN ME, WHO WOULD OF NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS IN MY WHOLE 10
YRS OF PLAY REGARGLESS OF MY TERRIBLE LOSING STREAKS IN THE PAST.
JODIE
snip
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
> wrote
> >
> ... I've NEVER seen--or heard
> of for that matter--Gaming officials marching into a casino floor
> unannounced and grabbing a VP machine, to have it taken back to the
> lab. I know how easy it would be to, for instance, have the A's come
> up slightly less often, or the 2's on a DW machine. Just a little
> biasing on the part of thr "RNG" (there is no such thing as an
> actual Random Number Generator) and there goes our 0.7% advantage,
> poof, just like that. Just a thought...I don't like the idea of
> spending $1 million bucks (that's what we dollar players shove into
> the machines in a year) and not being SURE everything is on the
> level.
snip
Well, a combination of ...
1.) ... the risk of an anonymous tip by a disgruntled casino employee,
pinpointing the exact machine and how it is rigged, to a ...
2.) ... public official or gaming commission member who wants to make a name
for himself, coupled with ...
3.) the logic that the casino already has, on average, enough of an edge to
not want to risk its lucrative business trying to gain maybe just a fraction
of a percent by cheating.
This assumes that the laws permit a gaming commission member, either on his
own whim or at the prodding of a bureaucrat, to enter a casino at any time
and pick any machine for inspection, without a search warrant; I assume that
the laws are set up that way, and if they aren't, they should be. With the
ability to walk in at any time and pick any machine without explanation or
justification, the casinos wouldn't have any way of knowing which, if any,
employee had ratted them out, but even if those in the know are so limited,
there is still a substantial risk that they would be reported. I know that
in that particular business there is a chance of a car bomb or a visit in
the middle of the night from very unfriendly people, but when the
consequences could cost millions or even billions of dollars to big industry
creating a real incentive for all sorts of crime including murder, there are
still some courageous (or
crazy) folks who will blow the whistle. In dealing possibly with organized
crime, I would assume that the witness protection program could be used, as
well as handsome rewards for information.
The above also presumes that the edge from cheating would be small enough to
not make the gamble of cheating worthwhile to the casino. I would hope that
the fine and risk of loss of license, as well as bad public relations, would
be so great that they wouldn't want to take the chance. Of course, being
just a recreational player myself, I don't lose too much sleep worrying
about that sort of thing; I am quite happy to lose a small session stake
each visit in exchange for a great time and relatively generous comps. To
me the gambling loss is the cost of my entertainment/hobby. The fact that
maybe it is costing me an average of $80.00 instead of $75.00 a day, given
my satisfaction with all that I get for that money anyway, doesn't cause me
too much concern.
Just my two cents.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
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Bill, I think you are right on the money. The risk is just to great
to knowingly try to cheat, when they can legally (basically) steal
from most of the customers. I play a lot in STL and there are very
few playable machines period, and you continuously see someone walk
past a 10-6 Double bonus machine and go straight to a 9-5 Double bonus
with a progressive at $4200. then they play with no informed stratagy
other than what has worked for them in the past. I was told proudly
by a customer about when he hit a royal by saving a 10, I didnt ask
any questions and to him that it was very nice to have that happen. I
can only guess what the real hold is for the average VP player, but it
is most likely only slightly better than regular slots.
Jim
Well, a combination of ...
1.) ... the risk of an anonymous tip by a disgruntled casino employee,
pinpointing the exact machine and how it is rigged, to a ...
2.) ... public official or gaming commission member who wants to make a
name for himself, coupled with ...
3.) the logic that the casino already has, on average, enough of an
edge
to not want to risk its lucrative business trying to gain maybe just a
fraction of a percent by cheating.This assumes that the laws permit a gaming commission member, either on
his own whim or at the prodding of a bureaucrat, to enter a casino at
any time and pick any machine for inspection, without a search warrant;
I assume that the laws are set up that way, and if they aren't, they
should be. With the ability to walk in at any time and pick any
machine
without explanation or justification, the casinos wouldn't have any way
of knowing which, if any, employee had ratted them out, but even if
those in the know are so limited, there is still a substantial risk
that
they would be reported. I know that in that particular business there
is a chance of a car bomb or a visit in the middle of the night from
very unfriendly people, but when the consequences could cost
millions or
even billions of dollars to big industry creating a real incentive for
all sorts of crime including murder, there are still some courageous
(or
crazy) folks who will blow the whistle. In dealing possibly with
organized crime, I would assume that the witness protection program
could be used, as well as handsome rewards for information.The above also presumes that the edge from cheating would be small
enough to not make the gamble of cheating worthwhile to the casino. I
would hope that the fine and risk of loss of license, as well as bad
public relations, would be so great that they wouldn't want to take the
chance. Of course, being just a recreational player myself, I don't
lose too much sleep worrying about that sort of thing; I am quite happy
to lose a small session stake each visit in exchange for a great time
and relatively generous comps. To me the gambling loss is the cost of
my entertainment/hobby. The fact that maybe it is costing me an
average
of $80.00 instead of $75.00 a day, given my satisfaction with all
that I
···
get for that money anyway, doesn't cause me too much concern.
Just my two cents.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
how do you explain the VENETIAN rigged drawing and other
irregularities then?
how do you explain the AMERICAN COIN rigged royal case?
do you think the mob style killing of the programmer and lead witness
LARRY VOLK in the american coin case was just a coincidence?
how do you explain RON HARRIS, former member of the gaming control
board?
given what has come to light to date, do you think there might just be
a few other cases of rigging that go undisclosed?
i think you underestimate basic human greed
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jimnkelli" <jbecker11@c...> wrote:
The risk is just to great
to knowingly try to cheat, when they can legally (basically) steal
from most of the customers.