vpFREE2 Forums

October Cards

#1

Went to the lounges for breakfast, lunch and dinner yesterday, was the slowest I have seen them in 3 years of going to them. During breakfast at 7am, there was 4 people in the lounge. The lounge behind the high limit room had no more than 4 people at 12:30, and about 8 people at 6:30 pm. It was my last trip into them as my Wolf status expired yesterday. Business looked pretty slow there all day yesterday, picking up a bit at 7pm, I left at 8pm. I think they shot their foot on the VP downgrade game.
John

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

1. 95% of the people are not VP players but slot, poker or table game players.
2. The majority of the VP players are not exceptionally knowledgeable of the paytables and the intricacies of the point system. A lot are but a lot are not.
Unfortunately, both places were PACKED on the Saturday nigh I went last month. Any downturn is most likely the result of the economic collapse including the near elimination of CD interest-which so many retirees rely on for their discretionary income.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "John" <treasureman@...> wrote:

Went to the lounges for breakfast, lunch and dinner yesterday, was the slowest I have seen them in 3 years of going to them. During breakfast at 7am, there was 4 people in the lounge. The lounge behind the high limit room had no more than 4 people at 12:30, and about 8 people at 6:30 pm. It was my last trip into them as my Wolf status expired yesterday. Business looked pretty slow there all day yesterday, picking up a bit at 7pm, I left at 8pm. I think they shot their foot on the VP downgrade game.
John

We would like to think that but in reality:

#3

The number of knowledgable VP players is such a small percentage of their handle, I can't imagine we can make enough of a difference to change their new strategy. When you see people playing 1 or 2 coin
$5 8-5 JOB you realize that we are a small minority.
IMHO
Mel
Mel

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "John" <treasureman@> wrote:
>
> Went to the lounges for breakfast, lunch and dinner yesterday, was the slowest I have seen them in 3 years of going to them. During breakfast at 7am, there was 4 people in the lounge. The lounge behind the high limit room had no more than 4 people at 12:30, and about 8 people at 6:30 pm. It was my last trip into them as my Wolf status expired yesterday. Business looked pretty slow there all day yesterday, picking up a bit at 7pm, I left at 8pm. I think they shot their foot on the VP downgrade game.
> John
>
>We would like to think that but in reality:
1. 95% of the people are not VP players but slot, poker or table game players.
2. The majority of the VP players are not exceptionally knowledgeable of the paytables and the intricacies of the point system. A lot are but a lot are not.
Unfortunately, both places were PACKED on the Saturday nigh I went last month. Any downturn is most likely the result of the economic collapse including the near elimination of CD interest-which so many retirees rely on for their discretionary income.

#4

Unfortunately I think you are right.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@...> wrote:

The number of knowledgable VP players is such a small percentage of their handle, I can't imagine we can make enough of a difference to change their new strategy. When you see people playing 1 or 2 coin
$5 8-5 JOB you realize that we are a small minority.
IMHO
Mel
Mel

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "John" <treasureman@> wrote:
> >
> > Went to the lounges for breakfast, lunch and dinner yesterday, was the slowest I have seen them in 3 years of going to them. During breakfast at 7am, there was 4 people in the lounge. The lounge behind the high limit room had no more than 4 people at 12:30, and about 8 people at 6:30 pm. It was my last trip into them as my Wolf status expired yesterday. Business looked pretty slow there all day yesterday, picking up a bit at 7pm, I left at 8pm. I think they shot their foot on the VP downgrade game.
> > John
> >
> >We would like to think that but in reality:
> 1. 95% of the people are not VP players but slot, poker or table game players.
> 2. The majority of the VP players are not exceptionally knowledgeable of the paytables and the intricacies of the point system. A lot are but a lot are not.
> Unfortunately, both places were PACKED on the Saturday nigh I went last month. Any downturn is most likely the result of the economic collapse including the near elimination of CD interest-which so many retirees rely on for their discretionary income.
>

#5

VP players are the most loyal players in the casino.
They play the most money, over the longest term.
They may not play perfectly, but they have knowledge, and will realize the degraded conditions at Mohegan.
They do not require expensive new technology or new machines to keep their interest.
Casinos that value local patronage value VP players.

···

> > >We would like to think that but in reality:
> > 1. 95% of the people are not VP players but slot, poker or table game players.
> > 2. The majority of the VP players are not exceptionally knowledgeable of the paytables and the intricacies of the point system. A lot are but a lot are not.
> > Unfortunately, both places were PACKED on the Saturday nigh I went last month. Any downturn is most likely the result of the economic collapse including the near elimination of CD interest-which so many retirees rely on for their discretionary income.
> >
>

#6

I agree with Mel . However, where we can make the difference is on the VP machines themselves. If they stay idle, it alerts management.

  Larry F.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "s4l4" <s4l4@...> wrote:

Unfortunately I think you are right.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@> wrote:
>
> The number of knowledgable VP players is such a small percentage of their handle, I can't imagine we can make enough of a difference to change their new strategy. When you see people playing 1 or 2 coin
> $5 8-5 JOB you realize that we are a small minority.
> IMHO
> Mel

#7

We may be more influential than our numbers indicate. Casual playing friends are not going, when they are informed that games are downgraded and benefits reduced, even if they don't understand the details. Slot playing spouse is not going, if I don't go. Even plopies who have no sophisticated friends can read "this machine pays no points", and be discouraged from playing.

Between the no points policy and the high gas prices, we are taking most of our action to Las Vegas where we reside part time. I have played PE at MS a couple of times recently, because I love variety, and it is not available in Las Vegas for dollars. However with the only playable games being PE and JOB and the 1 hr. drive, may play at MS has been declining for some time. Especially since there are 3 casinos w/i 5 minutes of us at LV, that have FP SA 10 play, triple bonus+, BP deluxe, and FP DB.

David

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@...> wrote:

The number of knowledgable VP players is such a small percentage of their handle, I can't imagine we can make enough of a difference to change their new strategy. When you see people playing 1 or 2 coin
$5 8-5 JOB you realize that we are a small minority.
IMHO
Mel
Mel

#8

I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP. I hope they go back to giving us some points for our play. Also, the gift giveaways have been pitiful and even the frequent ballroom dinners have disappeared.
Has anyone tried the new Ballo Restaurant? The menu looks expensive and even though we pay with points, we still have to tip with real money.

Question to David - is your Las Vegas home in Summerlin? We go to LV twice a year and like to play the 10 play Super Aces at Rampart.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "David" <d_richheimer@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@> wrote:
>
> The number of knowledgable VP players is such a small percentage of their handle, I can't imagine we can make enough of a difference to change their new strategy. When you see people playing 1 or 2 coin
> $5 8-5 JOB you realize that we are a small minority.
> IMHO
> Mel
> Mel
>

We may be more influential than our numbers indicate. Casual playing friends are not going, when they are informed that games are downgraded and benefits reduced, even if they don't understand the details. Slot playing spouse is not going, if I don't go. Even plopies who have no sophisticated friends can read "this machine pays no points", and be discouraged from playing.

Between the no points policy and the high gas prices, we are taking most of our action to Las Vegas where we reside part time. I have played PE at MS a couple of times recently, because I love variety, and it is not available in Las Vegas for dollars. However with the only playable games being PE and JOB and the 1 hr. drive, may play at MS has been declining for some time. Especially since there are 3 casinos w/i 5 minutes of us at LV, that have FP SA 10 play, triple bonus+, BP deluxe, and FP DB.

David

#9

As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?

  Larry F.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@...> wrote:

I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.

#10

Right

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@...> wrote:

Question to David - is your Las Vegas home in Summerlin? We go to LV twice a year and like to play the 10 play Super Aces at Rampart.

#11

________________________________

Has anyone tried the new Ballo Restaurant? The menu looks expensive and even though we pay with points, we still have to tip with real money.

We tried it a couple of days ago, when we had a $25 dining credit. It is expensive, and here's a run-down on what we had:

Bread comes in a paper bag, with some partially melted butter/olive oil/spices mixture. Pretty tasty, I guess the paper bag is some kind of chic food statement.
Ravioli pesto sauce: arrived kind of warmish, not hot. 7 ravioli for $19.00??? OK, but kind of bland.
Chicken Francaise: one semi-decent size slice of chicken, actually quite tasty.
Eggplant parmigania: just some sliced eggplant with some cheese and sauce on top. Fair at best.

Basically an over $60 meal, and we walked away hungry. Ambiance is nice, service was very good & pleasant. If you had a $100 comp, you'd probably be able to walk away filled-up. Better than Bobby Flay's Americain (but then so is your local McDonald's), not as pretentious as Michael Jordan's, not as good as Tuscany (on those occasional days when its good and the waitstaff feels like serving you) and better than Tuscany (when the food becomes overly pretentious, and the waitstaff treats you like something they found on the bottom of their shoe.)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours of paying

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
>
> I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.

  As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?

  Larry F.

#13

Before no-points, I was playing BJ in the $20 - $50 range, but not that many hours because I was playing a lot of VP. JOB $20 per hand mostly. I'm probably not getting many points at $100 BJ, I know that. But we still go for the food and shows.

I find the new Seasons buffet very disappointing but we enjoy the Summer Shack.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
>
> I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.

  As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?

  Larry F.

#14

"...> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours..."
That's 76 Mohegan dollars for about $15K in action. If MSBJ is ~95.5% E.V. with basic stragegy; it's a fair bet; kind of like 9/6 JB but with points at one point for ~$180 action. Sounds familiar.

It's not our cup of tea but an alternative for many.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "s4l4" <s4l4@...> wrote:

I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours of paying

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
> >
> > I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.
>
> As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?
>
> Larry F.
>

#15

Opps. I meant in previous email 99.5% E.V.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

"...> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours..."
That's 76 Mohegan dollars for about $15K in action. If MSBJ is ~95.5% E.V. with basic stragegy; it's a fair bet; kind of like 9/6 JB but with points at one point for ~$180 action. Sounds familiar.

It's not our cup of tea but an alternative for many.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "s4l4" <s4l4@> wrote:
>
> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours of paying
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.
> >
> > As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?
> >
> > Larry F.
> >
>

#16

If you play the best games at MS which are the 6 deck hand shuffled with dealer stands on soft 17 and late surrender, the odds with perfect strategy is 99.67%. Casino of the Earth has these games.

Regards, Chuck

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

"...> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours..."
That's 76 Mohegan dollars for about $15K in action. If MSBJ is ~95.5% E.V. with basic stragegy; it's a fair bet; kind of like 9/6 JB but with points at one point for ~$180 action. Sounds familiar.

It's not our cup of tea but an alternative for many.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "s4l4" <s4l4@> wrote:
>
> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours of paying
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.
> >
> > As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?
> >
> > Larry F.
> >
>

#17

You beat me to the punch...

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

Opps. I meant in previous email 99.5% E.V.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> "...> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours..."
> That's 76 Mohegan dollars for about $15K in action. If MSBJ is ~95.5% E.V. with basic stragegy; it's a fair bet; kind of like 9/6 JB but with points at one point for ~$180 action. Sounds familiar.
>
> It's not our cup of tea but an alternative for many.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "s4l4" <s4l4@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours of paying
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.
> > >
> > > As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?
> > >
> > > Larry F.
> > >
> >
>

#18

Thanks,
Our experience with BJ has been limited to comp'd tourneys relying on luck and last hour training.
Wizard of Odds has extensive BJ info including a calculator:
http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/house-edge-calculator-pop.html
The difference between "optimal" and "realistic" is negligible. He's got a page on a stragegy that adds a few more lines to basic which is a good read.

I don't remember so much info back in the day. His actuary expertise really shows. Bodog relationship has been good for him. Thanks again.
Dave in Boston

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "chuckn330i" <cnorthrup@...> wrote:

If you play the best games at MS which are the 6 deck hand shuffled with dealer stands on soft 17 and late surrender, the odds with perfect strategy is 99.67%. Casino of the Earth has these games.

Regards, Chuck

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> "...> I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours..."
> That's 76 Mohegan dollars for about $15K in action. If MSBJ is ~95.5% E.V. with basic stragegy; it's a fair bet; kind of like 9/6 JB but with points at one point for ~$180 action. Sounds familiar.
>
> It's not our cup of tea but an alternative for many.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "s4l4" <s4l4@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been playing $50 bj and the last time I went I received $76 for about 4-5 hours of paying
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "HOHOHONDO" <hohohondo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am playing mostly $100 BJ since the no-points thing. I know basic strategy and enjoy BJ, but I miss the VP.
> > >
> > > As far as table games at MS, particularly BJ. How " generous " are they with points ? Several yrs.ago I met a craps player who lived near me( equidistant from Conn. or AC ) and he said that they treated him much better at MS than in AC. I've heard conflicting stories on this matter. Anyone care to comment ? HOHO..Does $100 BJ mean that you were a $5+ VP player.For general discussion..What level BJ do you think equates( if in fact there is an equating), to a dollar VP player ?
> > >
> > > Larry F.
> > >
> >
>

#19

Just got my new Sag card today.

How about everybody else?

Don't know how much I'll be going, with what MS did to VP.

#20

No card in the mail yet. As dollar machine gamblers, 5 hours on their short pay VP pays the airfare to Vegas. But let the Miss Mass Casino Pageant begin:
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20111020new_bedford_to_meet_with_casino_developers/srvc=home&position=recent

"...New Bedford to meet with casino developers

NEW BEDFORD — The New Bedford City Council is scheduled to sit down with two developers interested in bringing a casino to the city....
...The gambling bill calls for one of the three casino licenses to be awarded to a federally recognized American Indian tribe..."

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "TED" <Freedom_Fighter56@...> wrote:

Just got my new Sag card today.

How about everybody else?

Don't know how much I'll be going, with what MS did to VP.