vpFREE2 Forums

New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

#1

I'm open to suggestions. Really...really open.

If you are against putting in less known games, what would you suggest we do instead, to make the bank more sustainable for the casino and more fun for the player.

This started out as a vpFREE request and idea. I see no problem in including everyone's advice in its continued success and existence.

Think about it really hard and then cry havoc and let slip the dogs of good M progressive suggestions.

You'll need to check your player hat at the door for this brain storming session to be fruitful. Remember it has to be good for player AND the casino.

Put yourself in my shoes and imagine yourself walking into the VP's office and pitching the idea. Try not to get me shot. I still haven't ridden on a pink elephant.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@...> wrote:

Something more profitable than 7/5 JOB? Why not offer 5/5 TDB. Makes me think the M is making to much on the other games. How about working on those other games Frank? You know, the non progressives. Not many regular players know the game of All American so I think it would flop. A common game needs to go in for the non savvy player to recognize. I cant remember what games there were but a BPD or a WHA is liked by many players.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@> wrote:
>
> I was thinking about what Frank said on the radio show the other night about M Resort wanting to switch out the 7-5 Jacks-or-better for something else, something a bit more challenging (and more profitable for the casino). I was wondering what would be a good, and different, choice.
>
> What about All American? What about a pay table like the following?
>
>
> 1-1-3-7-7-7-40-200-800
>
>
> Would that work?
>

#2

If you want to make it win for the casino and win for the player, someone will have to lose. The struggle is to bring in recreational players to take the losses like live poker or sports betting. Marketing might be the ticket to getting players in those seats to bring the progressives up. Multiple progressives (RF, SF 4-kind) would bring down the volatility but then might not be as attractive as a big jackpot.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm open to suggestions. Really...really open.

If you are against putting in less known games, what would you suggest we do instead, to make the bank more sustainable for the casino and more fun for the player.

This started out as a vpFREE request and idea. I see no problem in including everyone's advice in its continued success and existence.

Think about it really hard and then cry havoc and let slip the dogs of good M progressive suggestions.

You'll need to check your player hat at the door for this brain storming session to be fruitful. Remember it has to be good for player AND the casino.

Put yourself in my shoes and imagine yourself walking into the VP's office and pitching the idea. Try not to get me shot. I still haven't ridden on a pink elephant.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sai Sai" <gofastnismo@> wrote:
>
> Something more profitable than 7/5 JOB? Why not offer 5/5 TDB. Makes me think the M is making to much on the other games. How about working on those other games Frank? You know, the non progressives. Not many regular players know the game of All American so I think it would flop. A common game needs to go in for the non savvy player to recognize. I cant remember what games there were but a BPD or a WHA is liked by many players.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking about what Frank said on the radio show the other night about M Resort wanting to switch out the 7-5 Jacks-or-better for something else, something a bit more challenging (and more profitable for the casino). I was wondering what would be a good, and different, choice.
> >
> > What about All American? What about a pay table like the following?
> >
> >
> > 1-1-3-7-7-7-40-200-800
> >
> >
> > Would that work?
> >
>

#3

This is a challenging dilemma. The more I think about it the more I realize how few "different" types of video poker there really are.

Essentially the White Hot Aces and TB-Plus and Super Aces games are just different twists on Double Double Bonus.

I was first thinking about the Joker games they have back East where the 5-of-a-kind is the biggest payoff instead of a royal. I have never played that.

I think either you or Bob mentioned on the Show last week the game of One-Eyed-Jacks. I have never played that either but I understand that is extremely difficult.

Perhaps a Deuces-Joker type game. Or how about a Bonus Deuces Wild? Or a Double Deuces Wild?

I still think the All American would fit. It's "different" enough, and the 7-7-7 pay table is in the low 96% range.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm open to suggestions. Really...really open.

If you are against putting in less known games, what would you suggest we do instead, to make the bank more sustainable for the casino and more fun for the player.

This started out as a vpFREE request and idea. I see no problem in including everyone's advice in its continued success and existence.

Think about it really hard and then cry havoc and let slip the dogs of good M progressive suggestions.

You'll need to check your player hat at the door for this brain storming session to be fruitful. Remember it has to be good for player AND the casino.

Put yourself in my shoes and imagine yourself walking into the VP's office and pitching the idea. Try not to get me shot. I still haven't ridden on a pink elephant.

#4

How about Double Joker K or Better.?? . A difficult game that only a few
people have mastered;( good for the casinos....... A fun game to play; (good
for ploppies) At one time this game was quite popular at Foxwoods in Ct.
where almost nobody played it correctly.
                                                                 RMcK.

···

-------Original Message-------

From: Bob Bartop
Date: 07/09/11 20:58:26
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm open to suggestions. Really...really open.

If you are against putting in less known games, what would you suggest we

do instead, to make the bank more sustainable for the casino and more fun
for the player.

This started out as a vpFREE request and idea. I see no problem in

including everyone's advice in its continued success and existence.

Think about it really hard and then cry havoc and let slip the dogs of

good M progressive suggestions.

You'll need to check your player hat at the door for this brain storming

session to be fruitful. Remember it has to be good for player AND the casino

Put yourself in my shoes and imagine yourself walking into the VP's office

and pitching the idea. Try not to get me shot. I still haven't ridden on a
pink elephant.

This is a challenging dilemma. The more I think about it the more I realize
how few "different" types of video poker there really are.

Essentially the White Hot Aces and TB-Plus and Super Aces games are just
different twists on Double Double Bonus.

I was first thinking about the Joker games they have back East where the
5-of-a-kind is the biggest payoff instead of a royal. I have never played
that.

I think either you or Bob mentioned on the Show last week the game of
One-Eyed-Jacks. I have never played that either but I understand that is
extremely difficult.

Perhaps a Deuces-Joker type game. Or how about a Bonus Deuces Wild? Or a
Double Deuces Wild?

I still think the All American would fit. It's "different" enough, and the
7-7-7 pay table is in the low 96% range.

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

That does sound like an excellent choice. I have never played it but it certainly fits the "different" description.

Interestingly, I looked at some pay tables on vpfree and I see there are two basic scenarios. There is 1-1-4-6-7-10, and then there is 1-2-3-4-5-8. The first is at 96.83%, and the second is at 98.10%. And unlike the other FrankNBob games, this one would not be positive at $2700 for quarters.

I don't know how difficult this game would be, but perhaps the second scenario (98.10) would work if it is difficult enough.

Anyway, I agree that is a good choice, Richard. But I'm still leaning towards All American. The more I think of it, All American seems like a slam-dunk.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Richard McKenna" <MCKENNA3927@...> wrote:

How about Double Joker K or Better.?? . A difficult game that only a few
people have mastered;( good for the casinos....... A fun game to play; (good
for ploppies) At one time this game was quite popular at Foxwoods in Ct.
where almost nobody played it correctly.

#6

Tell the "M" management to take a walk down the street to the Southpoint. Tell them to look at the crowds of players and then to look at the machine mix and copy it.
No machines with a base game over %100, but a ton of games over %99.

With a nicer casino and better restaurants they would pull some customers away from the Southpoint.

The trouble with the "M" is that they opened with games that were too good and got burnt.
They overreacted too far in the other direction and lost a lot of players. Southpoint has a good balance and gets a lot of players.

Regards

A.P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

As Scooby says-"Roh Roh".
It looks like M isn't too happy with the returns on its new progressive bank. Take away games people actually play and put in "Super Double Triple Joker Aces Deluxe Red Sevens or Better" or something equally obscure. Guess I won't be playing that bank after all.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm open to suggestions. Really...really open.

If you are against putting in less known games, what would you suggest we do instead, to make the bank more sustainable for the casino and more fun for the player.

#8

Yeah but that's not what Frank and "Bob" want. They want games that suckers will feed until they hit 100% so the sharks can jump on them.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Tell the "M" management to take a walk down the street to the Southpoint. Tell them to look at the crowds of players and then to look at the machine mix and copy it.
No machines with a base game over %100, but a ton of games over %99.

#9

These are VERY good suggestions on how M can increase its general clientèle. However the Southpoint only has two very average progressives that get playable once in a blue moon. I have played them thrice in the last year.

Our goal with the NEW M progressive was to try something "new".

Since as you pointed out Southpoint has already gone the lots of games between 99-100 it would not be an original idea.

I will certainly pass along your thoughts, but they aren't a solution that will help the progressive last and multiply. Good advice for M...not helpful to the task at hand.

The M specifically is secondary to the game concept itself, which we hope will be adopted by other casinos in the future, if it is successful at M.

How about this: To keep us on track, let's eliminate all discussion of its current location. Imagine the progressive is in casino X, which has no other games of any kind. The only way to improve it is to alter "it" in some way.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Tell the "M" management to take a walk down the street to the Southpoint. Tell them to look at the crowds of players and then to look at the machine mix and copy it.
No machines with a base game over %100, but a ton of games over %99.

With a nicer casino and better restaurants they would pull some customers away from the Southpoint.

The trouble with the "M" is that they opened with games that were too good and got burnt.
They overreacted too far in the other direction and lost a lot of players. Southpoint has a good balance and gets a lot of players.

Regards

A.P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

An interesting POV, but not mine. You seem to have forgotten, yet again, that I came up with this idea in response to a vpFREE poster asking me to.

Oh, and Bob is taking no interest, either in playing the new progressive, or in its development. At this point YOU have more input than he's is providing. Thought you should know.

What I thought would work are games that are hard to play, where only the most diligent and dedicated players will benefit from them.

Effort to = Reward

I was brought up to believe this was how life worked, and I see nothing wrong with a game concept that rewards the hardest workers.

If you are asking for a game concept that treats everyone as equals, then I'd like to hear your idea on how we can accomplish that and pitch it to the casino.

If you have suggestions on what to do, please share them.

If you have suggestions on what not to do, please share them.

You seem to be focused on complaining and not about coming up with solutions.

vpFREE asked for me to see if I could bring back fast progressives, if I'm to make that a lasting reality I really need help. I'm out of ideas.

What I WANT is to make EVERYONE happy. As this is impossible, the only question at this point is how badly I will fail.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
Yeah but that's not what Frank and "Bob" want. They want games that suckers will feed until they hit 100% so the sharks can jump on them.

#11

Frank we love you but your type of thinking in taking away games that normal people play in favor of "Super Double Triple Joker Aces
Deluxe Red Sevens or Better" type headache inducers is logically impossible because:
1. The only people who are going to learn the strategy on these
obscure games are AP's-real or imagined.
BUT:
2. These AP's are only going to play the game when it is over 100%. Meanwhile the ploppies you are depending on to prop up the progressives when they are under 100% are going to sit at the machine, see no game they recognize and shake their head and walk away.

My solution-set the machines to stop accumulating points once a given game hits 100%.
This way the ploppies (and their often lousy play) will get all their points, promotions, welfare checks, etc. but the AP who only plays over 100% has to be satisfied with what's on the machine.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

An interesting POV, but not mine. You seem to have forgotten, yet again, that I came up with this idea in response to a vpFREE poster asking me to.

Oh, and Bob is taking no interest, either in playing the new progressive, or in its development. At this point YOU have more input than he's is providing. Thought you should know.

What I thought would work are games that are hard to play, where only the most diligent and dedicated players will benefit from them.

Effort to = Reward

I was brought up to believe this was how life worked, and I see nothing wrong with a game concept that rewards the hardest workers.

If you are asking for a game concept that treats everyone as equals, then I'd like to hear your idea on how we can accomplish that and pitch it to the casino.

If you have suggestions on what to do, please share them.

If you have suggestions on what not to do, please share them.

You seem to be focused on complaining and not about coming up with solutions.

vpFREE asked for me to see if I could bring back fast progressives, if I'm to make that a lasting reality I really need help. I'm out of ideas.

What I WANT is to make EVERYONE happy. As this is impossible, the only question at this point is how badly I will fail.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
Yeah but that's not what Frank and "Bob" want. They want games that suckers will feed until they hit 100% so the sharks can jump on them.

#12

Received and understood.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

Frank we love you but your type of thinking in taking away games that normal people play in favor of "Super Double Triple Joker Aces
Deluxe Red Sevens or Better" type headache inducers is logically impossible because:
1. The only people who are going to learn the strategy on these
obscure games are AP's-real or imagined.
BUT:
2. These AP's are only going to play the game when it is over 100%. Meanwhile the ploppies you are depending on to prop up the progressives when they are under 100% are going to sit at the machine, see no game they recognize and shake their head and walk away.

My solution-set the machines to stop accumulating points once a given game hits 100%.
This way the ploppies (and their often lousy play) will get all their points, promotions, welfare checks, etc. but the AP who only plays over 100% has to be satisfied with what's on the machine.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> An interesting POV, but not mine. You seem to have forgotten, yet again, that I came up with this idea in response to a vpFREE poster asking me to.
>
> Oh, and Bob is taking no interest, either in playing the new progressive, or in its development. At this point YOU have more input than he's is providing. Thought you should know.
>
> What I thought would work are games that are hard to play, where only the most diligent and dedicated players will benefit from them.
>
> Effort to = Reward
>
> I was brought up to believe this was how life worked, and I see nothing wrong with a game concept that rewards the hardest workers.
>
> If you are asking for a game concept that treats everyone as equals, then I'd like to hear your idea on how we can accomplish that and pitch it to the casino.
>
> If you have suggestions on what to do, please share them.
>
> If you have suggestions on what not to do, please share them.
>
> You seem to be focused on complaining and not about coming up with solutions.
>
> vpFREE asked for me to see if I could bring back fast progressives, if I'm to make that a lasting reality I really need help. I'm out of ideas.
>
> What I WANT is to make EVERYONE happy. As this is impossible, the only question at this point is how badly I will fail.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> Yeah but that's not what Frank and "Bob" want. They want games that suckers will feed until they hit 100% so the sharks can jump on them.
>

#13

So what is this all about ? The M isn't happy because:
a. Not enough people are playing the progressives?
    or
b. They want to make even more money from them and good grief, 7/5 Jacks isn't a low enough paytable?

  Larry F.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Received and understood.

~FK

#14

Well as has already been suggested by another poter, Bonus deuces would be an excellent choice. I have seen these set up as progressives at the Soutpoint and at the Suncoast. At both locations when the progressive gets high you can't get near the machines. If I remember correctly the Suncoast had about 18 machines on one progressive and I played it once when it was over 2k and the bank was packed with players. The short pay paytable is tricky on this machine and I doubt that many play it well.

Regards

A.P.

···

--- On Sun, 7/10/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:

From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 2:35 PM

These are VERY good suggestions on how M can increase its general clientèle. However the Southpoint only has two very average progressives that get playable once in a blue moon. I have played them thrice in the last year.

Our goal with the NEW M progressive was to try something "new".

Since as you pointed out Southpoint has already gone the lots of games between 99-100 it would not be an original idea.

I will certainly pass along your thoughts, but they aren't a solution that will help the progressive last and multiply. Good advice for M...not helpful to the task at hand.

The M specifically is secondary to the game concept itself, which we hope will be adopted by other casinos in the future, if it is successful at M.

How about this: To keep us on track, let's eliminate all discussion of its current location. Imagine the progressive is in casino X, which has no other games of any kind. The only way to improve it is to alter "it" in some way.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Tell the "M" management to take a walk down the street to the Southpoint. Tell them to look at the crowds of players and then to look at the machine mix and copy it.
No machines with a base game over %100, but a ton of games over %99.

With a nicer casino and better restaurants they would pull some customers away from the Southpoint.

The trouble with the "M" is that they opened with games that were too good and got burnt.
They overreacted too far in the other direction and lost a lot of players. Southpoint has a good balance and gets a lot of players.

Regards

A.P.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

That's 3 votes for BDW. Thanks...Collating.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Well as has already been suggested by another poter, Bonus deuces would be an excellent choice. I have seen these set up as progressives at the Soutpoint and at the Suncoast. At both locations when the progressive gets high you can't get near the machines. If I remember correctly the Suncoast had about 18 machines on one progressive and I played it once when it was over 2k and the bank was packed with players. The short pay paytable is tricky on this machine and I doubt that many play it well. Â

Regards

A.P.

--- On Sun, 7/10/11, Frank <frank@...> wrote:

From: Frank <frank@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 10, 2011, 2:35 PM

Â

These are VERY good suggestions on how M can increase its general clientèle. However the Southpoint only has two very average progressives that get playable once in a blue moon. I have played them thrice in the last year.

Our goal with the NEW M progressive was to try something "new".

Since as you pointed out Southpoint has already gone the lots of games between 99-100 it would not be an original idea.

I will certainly pass along your thoughts, but they aren't a solution that will help the progressive last and multiply. Good advice for M...not helpful to the task at hand.

The M specifically is secondary to the game concept itself, which we hope will be adopted by other casinos in the future, if it is successful at M.

How about this: To keep us on track, let's eliminate all discussion of its current location. Imagine the progressive is in casino X, which has no other games of any kind. The only way to improve it is to alter "it" in some way.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@> wrote:
>
> Tell the "M" management to take a walk down the street to the Southpoint. Tell them to look at the crowds of players and then to look at the machine mix and copy it.
> No machines with a base game over %100, but a ton of games over %99.
> Â
> With a nicer casino and better restaurants they would pull some customers away from the Southpoint.
> Â
> The trouble with the "M" is that they opened with games that were too good and got burnt.
> They overreacted too far in the other direction and lost a lot of players. Southpoint has a good balance and gets a lot of players.
>
> Regards
>
> A.P.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#16

Could one other option to put on the table is changing the way the meter
rise is split? Easier / common games (JoB, BP, etc) get the lowest rate,
the standard but more mental games have the current rate, and harder games
get the fastest meter rise rate. It makes JoB profitable less often for the
player but leaves it on there for people who are good value to the Casino
and the occasions when the meter rise goes up far enough.
-Joe

···

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 18:04, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:

That's 3 votes for BDW. Thanks...Collating.

#17

Well, in behalf of BDW, it is quite different than DW, so it is somewhat "difficult". And it IS a common game, to be found in numerous locations throughout Las Vegas, both in stand-alone and multi-game formats, and with several pay tables. I think the most common "crappy" pay table is 1-1-3-3-4-10 (97.36%). I see THAT pay table everywhere! In my experience, that is the most common BDW pay table.

But for the purpose of our FrankNBobs, they'd probably want to spread 1-1-2-3-4-12 (96.22%), which you will also find in locations throughout town. It might also be on some of the Gamblers Bonus type machines you find in convenience stores, I'm not sure.

So, it probably IS popular enough to get play from "ploppies", and it probably has enough nuances that people will regularly play it incorrectly.

I might add, that BDW is actually one of the eight games they have at Barley's and other places like that. So in hindsight, maybe it should have been on the FrankNBobs in the first place, instead of the 7-5 JoB. Hindsight is 100%, though.

Anyway, let me throw my hat into the BDW ring and make it 4 votes.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

That's 3 votes for BDW. Thanks...Collating.

#18

I'm guessing you haven't been reading vpfree in the last couple months. Been on vacation, Larry?

Your first choice (a.) is obviously incorrect. The games are so popular they have put in MORE machines.

And your second choice (b.) about 7-5 Jacks, good grief, it IS a 4% meter rise, y'know.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:

So what is this all about ? The M isn't happy because:
a. Not enough people are playing the progressives?
    or
b. They want to make even more money from them and good grief, 7/5 Jacks isn't a low enough paytable?

  Larry F.

#19

This is very interesting. I don't know if it's feasible, but it's a very thought-provoking idea, and a good post. Bravo!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Joe Kavanagh <cyberjoek@...> wrote:

Could one other option to put on the table is changing the way the meter
rise is split? Easier / common games (JoB, BP, etc) get the lowest rate,
the standard but more mental games have the current rate, and harder games
get the fastest meter rise rate. It makes JoB profitable less often for the
player but leaves it on there for people who are good value to the Casino
and the occasions when the meter rise goes up far enough.
-Joe

#20

This is the best idea I've heard yet, though I don't have the experience to
know how it would work out in practice. This way you get the casual players
who see a JoB progressive and just go for it regardless of how the jp is.
They're not going to do the math to see if it's better than 100%, all
they're going to care about is that it's a game they know with a progressive
jackpot. Since it's such a popular game, the added bonus is the experts are
going to have even more of an advantage on the harder games than they do
now. This is all in theory of course, but IMO it's a stroke of genius.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Joe Kavanagh <cyberjoek@gmail.com> wrote:

**

Could one other option to put on the table is changing the way the meter
rise is split? Easier / common games (JoB, BP, etc) get the lowest rate,
the standard but more mental games have the current rate, and harder games
get the fastest meter rise rate. It makes JoB profitable less often for the
player but leaves it on there for people who are good value to the Casino
and the occasions when the meter rise goes up far enough.
-Joe