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New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

Let's catch you up.

7/5 Job is indeed a bad pay-table. Of course we have to list the entire pay table:

1-2-3-4-5-7-25-50-800 = 96.15% return (This would be for a non progressive)

However, the progressive at M adds 4% meter-rise to the Royal Jackpot. If you are unfamiliar with how progressive math works, perhaps it would be easier to visualize in terms of what an average Royal pays out with the meter going up that fast.

4% translates to about an extra 1360 times your bet on the RF. In pay-table terms this would be:

1-2-3-4-5-7-25-50-2160 = 100.18% return.

And this does not factor in the slot club cash back which can be as high as .9% during triple points...and the mailer value.

Therefore, the game you seemed to think was a money maker for the casino, is actually about a 1% loss for the casino, if everyone plays perfectly.

Very few people seem to get how big a deal 4% meter-rise is. It is legendary.

The last time I found a 4% MR progressive in Tahoe, I sold my house in Vegas and moved 5 days later.

In its current state it is slightly too good for the player and may not last, we need to tweak it a little to preserve it.

~FK

So what is this all about ? The M isn't happy because:

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:

a. Not enough people are playing the progressives?
    or
b. They want to make even more money from them and good grief, 7/5 Jacks isn't a low enough paytable?

  Larry F.

Outstanding idea. If this was a contest, you just won it.

I instantly called and checked...Arrgh...it is not technically possible.

Double E for effort though.

~FK

P.S. I had not thought of this. Keep em coming. If we toss enough (*^& at the wall maybe something will stick.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Joe Kavanagh <cyberjoek@...> wrote:
Could one other option to put on the table is changing the way the meter rise is split? Easier / common games (JoB, BP, etc) get the lowest rate, the standard but more mental games have the current rate, and harder games get the fastest meter rise rate. It makes JoB profitable less often for the player but leaves it on there for people who are good value to the Casino and the occasions when the meter rise goes up far enough.

-Joe

Just out of curiosity, are you now a consultant for M? Is this a paying gig? It just seems to me that you are devoting your life to this cause.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

In its current state it is slightly too good for the player and may not last, we need to tweak it a little to preserve it.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:
So what is this all about ? The M isn't happy because:
> a. Not enough people are playing the progressives?
> or
> b. They want to make even more money from them and good grief, 7/5 Jacks isn't a low enough paytable?
>
> Larry F.
>

And would that be a bad thing?

They ought to plaster his name and face on the machines, and build a statue of him in front of the place. They should rename it the Frank Resort. Honest to goodness, this is a really positive thing he is doing for the video poker world. It doesn't matter if this is a paying gig for him, it SHOULD be a paying gig for him. If these machines are successful, he's going to need to do more than hang out at the south end of town playing video poker and eating gourmet food all day long. He's going to need to do some traveling, some selling. He's going to need a new suit. If not him, then SOMEBODY has to do it.

In my opinion he is the perfect spokesman, and SALESMAN, for progressive video poker. He's even got a book for cryin outloud. And progressive video poker is what we need to guarantee a position in the future. He's got the right personality for the job. You wouldn't want ME to do it, because I'm an a-hole and I couldn't sell $10 bills for $9.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@...> wrote:

Just out of curiosity, are you now a consultant for M? Is this a paying gig? It just seems to me that you are devoting your life to this cause.

You are way off base in thinking that JOB players are somehow less informed than others. In my experience the ploppies gravitate more to the Super Duper Triple Double Bonus type games.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, nairb trah <nairbtrah1@...> wrote:

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Joe Kavanagh <cyberjoek@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Could one other option to put on the table is changing the way the meter
> rise is split? Easier / common games (JoB, BP, etc) get the lowest rate,
> the standard but more mental games have the current rate, and harder games
> get the fastest meter rise rate. It makes JoB profitable less often for the
> player but leaves it on there for people who are good value to the Casino
> and the occasions when the meter rise goes up far enough.
> -Joe
>

This is the best idea I've heard yet, though I don't have the experience to
know how it would work out in practice. This way you get the casual players
who see a JoB progressive and just go for it regardless of how the jp is.
They're not going to do the math to see if it's better than 100%, all
they're going to care about is that it's a game they know with a progressive
jackpot. Since it's such a popular game, the added bonus is the experts are
going to have even more of an advantage on the harder games than they do
now. This is all in theory of course, but IMO it's a stroke of genius.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wanted to take a moment to elaborate on this because there is nothing wrong with getting paid for doing work - this is still America; but since there is significant talk of the M progressives brought up by a source who could have a financial stake in doing so that should be disclosed or this board is then being used as a secretive advertising base to promote the M progressives.

I am relatively new to Video Poker and I can tell you what I think is missing/attractive to me - multi-line progressives and prizes.

1) multi-line progressives give a sense of winning a jackpot on a more regular basis which adds excitement and attrats one to play the game or keep playing the game when you experience it. I love to play a 3 way progressive JOB machine because I can get a bit of a "bonus" for hitting a 4 of a kind. The machine doesn't lock when this happens but it does pause and it feels like you realy won something, eventhough it is usually up to an extra $5.

2) prizes are overlooked instead of or in addition to cash. Marketing studies have shown that more people (perhaps mainly the plopper category?) would play for a trip to Hawaii than for the equivalent cash prize. This is because people are visual and can see themselves going to hawaii snorkelling with turtles and all of the half dressed models around them on the beach, etc. vs. cash which eventhough it can be anything including a trip it will likely just disappear into a bank account for not very exciting things like rent, utilities, insurance. Prizes sell a dream, money sells reality. I think this is a not very attractive example, but the "bonus" for a natural 4 of a kind at a local place is a free 6-pack of pepsi or budweiser. I think a choice of multiple types of bonus prizes could add interest ($5 or other denomination of match play/ace at blackjack, free play bonus at the machine, 241 food deals or free sandwich (how many people will get fries and drink also which adds to the casino's margins?, there are a lot of low cost prizes that would have real value to players as a bonus for a 4 of a kind level hit and higher. The value of the prizes would have to be calculated into the return, but the casino purchasing in bulk would (should) have a cost basis far lower than what people would value the prize at giving a differential return for casino/player.

Finally, I heard that there are/were games like dueces wild except where you pick the card you want to be wild. This also sounds like a good tweek to exploit because I recall some people picking 3s on a JOB type paytable. However, mixed with the prize formula getting 4 of a kind wilds could yield different prizes depending on the wild chosen giving incentives to pick 3s?

This is all general suggestions as I have read many specific examples regarding games I have never seen - hope these ideas help as I would like to see games put on the casino floors that have an attractive component instead of the trend to simply replace older machines with high-tech machines that have all of the same games with typically tighter paytables (probably to off-set the higher acquisition costs of the new machines).

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@> wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity, are you now a consultant for M? Is this a paying gig? It just seems to me that you are devoting your life to this cause.
>

And would that be a bad thing?

They ought to plaster his name and face on the machines, and build a statue of him in front of the place. They should rename it the Frank Resort. Honest to goodness, this is a really positive thing he is doing for the video poker world. It doesn't matter if this is a paying gig for him, it SHOULD be a paying gig for him. If these machines are successful, he's going to need to do more than hang out at the south end of town playing video poker and eating gourmet food all day long. He's going to need to do some traveling, some selling. He's going to need a new suit. If not him, then SOMEBODY has to do it.

In my opinion he is the perfect spokesman, and SALESMAN, for progressive video poker. He's even got a book for cryin outloud. And progressive video poker is what we need to guarantee a position in the future. He's got the right personality for the job. You wouldn't want ME to do it, because I'm an a-hole and I couldn't sell $10 bills for $9.

I too want to chime in and say that there's nothing wrong with being paid for doing work! And if it ends up in better and more fun video poker then everyone wins (we hope).

I like Pat's idea of multi-line progressives - I haven't seen those around for a long time and they do add excitement. For instance at the Hyatt in Tahoe there is a triple-play progressive with one jackpot for a dealt royal and a separate progressive jackpot for each line royal. It's a $2 game so that's a bit steep, but I could see it at $1 being very popular. Red Rock has that triple play progressive with a different royal for each denomination - that's fun too.

Valerie

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OK so again I'll ask (forgive me for being a litle dense ) What's the problem?

LF

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@" <lfcmja@> wrote:

I'm guessing you haven't been reading vpfree in the last couple months. Been on vacation, Larry?

Your first choice (a.) is obviously incorrect. The games are so popular they have put in MORE machines.

And your second choice (b.) about 7-5 Jacks, good grief, it IS a 4% meter rise, y'know.

OK Now I understand . Thanks for explaining Frank.

Larry F.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Let's catch you up.

7/5 Job is indeed a bad pay-table. Of course we have to list the entire pay table:

4% translates to about an extra 1360 times your bet on the RF. In pay-table terms this would be:

1-2-3-4-5-7-25-50-2160 = 100.18% return.

And this does not factor in the slot club cash back which can be as high as .9% during triple points...and the mailer value.

Therefore, the game you seemed to think was a money maker for the casino, is actually about a 1% loss for the casino, if everyone plays perfectly.

The "problem" is that people aren't playing JoB incorrectly enough. Take it from there.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lfcmja@..." <lfcmja@...> wrote:

OK so again I'll ask (forgive me for being a litle dense ) What's the problem?

LF

Good question. No I'm not a paid consultant for M. I get a modest monthly fee from them for having them as a show sponsor, which is for the advertisement we do on the radio show and my web-site.

As to why I was trying to make the bank more enduring, it is for the same reason I thought it up and pitched it in the first place; for the posters out there that asked me to bring back fast progressives. Seemed like a good idea to me since this was what I used to do for a living back before 2001.

Also, once I start something I like to finish it...work ethic.

If the concept works at M there is the chance that this type of progressive will spread to other venues. I was working under the impression that this would be good for everyone. Here's my logic.

The people that like it can play them.

The people that don't like them can ignore them.

Seemed like a win/win to me.

And to those out there that have pointed out that to put these machines in, something else they may have played had to be removed, keep this in mind: When putting in new machines casinos pick games scheduled for removal to replace. This means even if your favorite machine gets replaced with a franknbob progressive it would have been replaced with something else in the event these didn't exist.

If not our progressive it might have been Jackpot Party machines.

Hope that clears things up.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@...> wrote:
Just out of curiosity, are you now a consultant for M? Is this a paying gig? It just seems to me that you are devoting your life to this cause.

Reading these in order.

I'm not planning on staying in Vegas that much longer, and I don't really want to work in casinos or for them.

Life may force me to stay here for a couple more years, but the first good chance I get I'm outa here...a foot note...and perhaps I'll be remembered well.

Whether or not I would be a "perfect" spokesman for VP I cannot say. I really don't want the job.

My current plan is to get into full time serious comedy writing...ah, I mean comedy writing seriously...OK the writing will be serious, but the comedy will not be serious...of course it would not be serious, or else it wouldn't be comedy...oh, you know what I mean.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@> wrote:
>
> Just out of curiosity, are you now a consultant for M? Is this a paying gig? It just seems to me that you are devoting your life to this cause.
>

And would that be a bad thing?

They ought to plaster his name and face on the machines, and build a statue of him in front of the place. They should rename it the Frank Resort. Honest to goodness, this is a really positive thing he is doing for the video poker world. It doesn't matter if this is a paying gig for him, it SHOULD be a paying gig for him. If these machines are successful, he's going to need to do more than hang out at the south end of town playing video poker and eating gourmet food all day long. He's going to need to do some traveling, some selling. He's going to need a new suit. If not him, then SOMEBODY has to do it.

In my opinion he is the perfect spokesman, and SALESMAN, for progressive video poker. He's even got a book for cryin outloud. And progressive video poker is what we need to guarantee a position in the future. He's got the right personality for the job. You wouldn't want ME to do it, because I'm an a-hole and I couldn't sell $10 bills for $9.

Well, it seems like Bob Dancer would want to carry the baton. And frankly I am surprised that he is not involved with this. I don't want to get nosey and I'm sure he has his personal reasons. But obviously video poker IS going to be HIS life. So he's the man, whether you are still at it or not, Frank. I'll tellya one thing, if you leave, I hope it is at least a couple years from now. You've given video poker a shot in the arm and generated a lot of interest and conversation. And it's all been fun!

And the radio show wouldn't be the same without you! Hope you stick around for a relatively long time. But ultimately, I hope you do whatever you think is best for you. Life's too short.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Reading these in order.

I'm not planning on staying in Vegas that much longer, and I don't really want to work in casinos or for them.

Life may force me to stay here for a couple more years, but the first good chance I get I'm outa here...a foot note...and perhaps I'll be remembered well.

Whether or not I would be a "perfect" spokesman for VP I cannot say. I really don't want the job.

My current plan is to get into full time serious comedy writing...ah, I mean comedy writing seriously...OK the writing will be serious, but the comedy will not be serious...of course it would not be serious, or else it wouldn't be comedy...oh, you know what I mean.

~FK

Hi Frank
It was nice meeting you at the M , when the 4000 deuces quarter prog was hit July 4. I actually beat the machines for $100, but I'm sure had I'd stayed longer, I'd give it all back ( Luckily the guy next to me hit it within 20 minutes of playing ). Anyway, I checked out the rest of the M's inventory and I'd describe it as "Atlantic City Competitive" --- nothing great , but marginally playable. I love the M, and would only now consider staying and playing there , and I'd guess pumping thru $20,000 / day on the progs should get me room and basic board ?
So new options are open, thanks to Franks' Feast or Famine progressives & I have the M as a viable choice for Vegas Hotels to stay at!
Talking about progressives, I was staying at the California downtown and playing the $1 7/5 bonus progressive, that finally got hit at some 5+ cycles late on Sat for around $19,000. I spoke to a few semi pro's there that told me, they just blew a few thousand on the FFF progs at the M, and were stuck $9000 at the CAL doing 40 hour stay up or die marathon efforts. I personally blew $1000 chasing, but made it back and ahead with lucky hits on their All American, nsud, and 10/7 DB machines.

best....Tom

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank" <frank@progressivevp.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 9:04 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: New Game Suggestion for FrankNBobs

That's 3 votes for BDW. Thanks...Collating.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:

Well as has already been suggested by another poter, Bonus deuces would be an excellent choice. I have seen these set up as progressives at the Soutpoint and at the Suncoast. At both locations when the progressive gets high you can't get near the machines. If I remember correctly the Suncoast had about 18 machines on one progressive and I played it once when it was over 2k and the bank was packed with players.� The short pay paytable is tricky on this machine and I doubt that many play it well.� �

Hey, I think it would be great if they paid him. But, then he would be working for M or X casino. I am sorry, I do not belive one person can make a difference, if it be against Corporations or Government.

···

And would that be a bad thing?

They ought to plaster his name and face on the machines, and build a statue of him in front of the place. They should rename it the Frank Resort. Honest to goodness, this is a really positive thing he is doing for the video poker world. It doesn't matter if this is a paying gig for him, it SHOULD be a paying gig for him. If these machines are successful, he's going to need to do more than hang out at the south end of town playing video poker and eating gourmet food all day long. He's going to need to do some traveling, some selling. He's going to need a new suit. If not him, then SOMEBODY has to do it.

In my opinion he is the perfect spokesman, and SALESMAN, for progressive video poker. He's even got a book for cryin outloud. And progressive video poker is what we need to guarantee a position in the future. He's got the right personality for the job. You wouldn't want ME to do it, because I'm an a-hole and I couldn't sell $10 bills for $9.

This ploppie does. By the way, what are you advantage players called?
Thumpers? Bangers? Campers?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

You are way off base in thinking that JOB players are somehow less informed than others. In my experience the ploppies gravitate more to the Super Duper Triple Double Bonus type games.

Thanks for the answer. It was just that it seemed, every post, had M in it. Heck, someone wanted to know how they could get out there from the Fashion Show Mall. Great advertisment for them and you should get something.
Now get South Point and M to put in FPDW and I will drive down there.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Good question. No I'm not a paid consultant for M. I get a modest monthly fee from them for having them as a show sponsor, which is for the advertisement we do on the radio show and my web-site.

Hi Frank,

I just want to let you know I do appreciate your efforts very much and am counting down the days when I'll be able to see and play these progressives. 3 more months and I will be 5 weeks in Vegas, I hope they are not killed by then, but will get picked up by otter casino's.

Thanks for your great ideas, sharing them and put them in action!

Jackie

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

As to why I was trying to make the bank more enduring, it is for the same reason I thought it up and pitched it in the first place; for the posters out there that asked me to bring back fast progressives. Seemed like a good idea to me since this was what I used to do for a living back before 2001.

People will play the game they are familiar with no matter what the meter rise is. Yesterday someone hit a $2200 Royal when Joker was at $3100.

Doesn't matter what the game is, they are all set at about 96%.
None of them are very "hard." They just suck money unless you hit a Royal. Jacks can suck just as much as the rest when you are not hitting. All are the same. Just the Royal is different.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Joe Kavanagh <cyberjoek@...> wrote:

Could one other option to put on the table is changing the way the meter
rise is split? Easier / common games (JoB, BP, etc) get the lowest rate,
the standard but more mental games have the current rate, and harder games
get the fastest meter rise rate. It makes JoB profitable less often for the
player but leaves it on there for people who are good value to the Casino
and the occasions when the meter rise goes up far enough.
-Joe

On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 18:04, Frank <frank@...> wrote:

> That's 3 votes for BDW. Thanks...Collating.
>

Also The Orleans has the triple play with a large prog.if you are dealt the Royal and each line has a prog. if you get the Royal on the draw.... They have it in .05 & .25 cent games with several games to choose ... I play the DB 9/7 best close to 100% (hope Orleans dose not read this LOL,LOL )... Richard from Ca.

PS: I have seen the quater prog. over $21,000 and the nickle prog.over $1700.... GOOD LUCK TO ALL ...
..

···

--- On Mon, 7/11/11, Valerie Pollard <vpollard@socal.rr.com> wrote:

From: Valerie Pollard <vpollard@socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] FrankNBobs paying gig? + ne thoughts on games
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 11, 2011, 8:19 AM

I too want to chime in and say that there's nothing wrong with being paid for doing work! And if it ends up in better and more fun video poker then everyone wins (we hope).

I like Pat's idea of multi-line progressives - I haven't seen those around for a long time and they do add excitement. For instance at the Hyatt in Tahoe there is a triple-play progressive with one jackpot for a dealt royal and a separate progressive jackpot for each line royal. It's a $2 game so that's a bit steep, but I could see it at $1 being very popular. Red Rock has that triple play progressive with a different royal for each denomination - that's fun too.

Valerie

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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