Do any of you know how often the machine's are updated or changed ?? IE:: a bunch of people are winning on one machine,do they change it ?
Happy New Year to you all ! we are headed to see Jay-Z & Coldplay at the Cosmo, should be great !
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
Life is like a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you only spend it once.
Lillian Dickson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is an interesting question. Since video poker machines cannot be "changed" without a visible alteration to the pay-table, I can only guess you are asking about slots.
My first question to you would be, "why are you playing slots in the first place?" But assuming you have a good reason...
In the old days most casinos only changed slot return after monthly or quarterly accounting sessions, or even more commonly during remodeling. Changing the return of a slot required replacing the reels and as this was costly, it was usually avoided. Nor did the casinos need to change them, many slots (Even the ones with 10% meter-rise) had massive holds and needed no alteration to be big bread winners for the house.
Machines might be shut down and checked for errors mid-month, only if they required 3 fills in a shift (standard house rule). Even so they were not changed, only fixed, if broken.
This is no longer the case. Now changing the return of a slot only requires swapping out the chip-set, with no alteration to the hardware or physical reels. I have even heard that some casinos can alter return on the fly with newly available software suites.
I have not personally verified or disproved these claims, since I stopped playing slots the day the went electromechanical.
I prefer my women mysterious, and my gambling easily and well defined.
~Mysteries once solved, are never quite so interesting.
~Frank Kneeland
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote:
Do any of you know how often the machine's are updated or changed ?? IE:: a bunch of people are winning on one machine,do they change it ?
Happy New Year to you all ! we are headed to see Jay-Z & Coldplay at the Cosmo, should be great !
~ ¤(¯`*â¢.¸(¯`*â¢.¸ Meredith ¸.â¢*´¯)¸.â¢*´¯)¤ ~
Life is like a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you only spend it once.
Lillian Dickson[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Frank,
No, not slots. Just VPDW of late. The patterns were different on one particular machine that I had played and won on several time. I have a photographic memory and easily see patterns. I know the patterns change so, my presumption is that they changed the chip ? If not, the original chip is designed to acclimate to patterns of disciplined playing. Every since someone told me that my hunches would not pay off, I adhered & have been playing by the book and won a few days & then, the pattern change.
Last night was Amazing & I hope that everyone here has a wonderful prosperous 2011 !
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
Life is like a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you only spend it once.
Lillian Dickson
--- On Sun, 1/2/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I believe this information is wrong. Swapping out reels is only required if the theme changes. To change the payback of a particular slot game, the weighting of each spot on the reels change, not the physical reels themselves. As far as I know this has always been the case.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2011, at 4:19 PM, "Frank" <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
This is an interesting question. Since video poker machines cannot be "changed" without a visible alteration to the pay-table, I can only guess you are asking about slots.
In the old days most casinos only changed slot return after monthly or quarterly accounting sessions, or even more commonly during remodeling. Changing the return of a slot required replacing the reels and as this was costly, it was usually avoided. Nor did the casinos need to change them, many slots (Even the ones with 10% meter-rise) had massive holds and needed no alteration to be big bread winners for the house.
Machines might be shut down and checked for errors mid-month, only if they required 3 fills in a shift (standard house rule). Even so they were not changed, only fixed, if broken.
This is no longer the case. Now changing the return of a slot only requires swapping out the chip-set, with no alteration to the hardware or physical reels. I have even heard that some casinos can alter return on the fly with newly available software suites.
I have not personally verified or disproved these claims, since I stopped playing slots the day the went electromechanical.
— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@…> wrote:
>
>
> Do any of you know how often the machine's are updated or changed ?? IE:: a bunch of people are winning on one machine,do they change it ?
For the post this is a reply to, see bottom.
Ah...all becomes clear. A photographic memory can get you into a lot of trouble in VP if you are good at noticing patterns and search for them in random events. You WILL find them, but they cannot be used as predictors of the future and should be ignored. In this case, intelligence can be a handicap, unless one has had special training to avoid this mental trap. College courses in probability span years and still fail to overcome deeply ingrained beliefs we are exposed to both as children and as adults.
I have a subheading in my book entitled "Faces in the Clouds" that covers just this case. It is the inclusion of this type of information in my book (absent in other VP tomes) which prompted me to state with confidence on my website that my book is for everyone , even people that don't play progressives or gamble at all. Rather than restate what I have already published, I'll summarize with a new analogy I recently came up with while guest-hosting a radio show. Let's open with a quote:
Highway to Hell Part 1:
There was no question as to the intelligent design of the canals of Mars. The only question was, "Which side of the telescope that intelligence was on?" Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves.
Carl Sagan, Cosmos (Blues for a Red Planet) (summarized)
Imagine you are traveling down a road with "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile, stating the families responsible for each segment's upkeep. You notice:
Mile one belonging to the Robinson's is clean.
Mile two belonging to the Smith's is dirty.
Mile three belonging to the Mortensen's is spotless.
Mile four belonging to the Curmudgeon's is filthy.
And so on...
Almost every person on the planet, myself included, would at first conclude that the Mortensen family must have their act together, and that the Curmudgeon family (as well as having a ridiculous name) must be dropping the ball. It might even be true; the markers provide some information, incomplete and misleading though it may be. Consider that we are making this dogmatic judgment without the slightest inclusion of the random distribution of trash along the road. This common mental deficit in nearly all humans is related to the phenomenon know as "The base rate fallacy", or "base rate neglect". The families who have adopted a stretch of highway are responsible for cleaning, they are not, however, the ones making the mess. The random distribution of trash by littering travelers is by far the more important piece of information required to make a sound judgment about the true cause of trash placement along the route. However, this information is neither provided nor available. So, as the flawed beings that we are, our minds fill in the blanks with what is available, which in this case turns out to be the same thing scattered about our mythical highway...garbage.
Now that you should have the basic idea, let's add to it and make the analogy even more applicable to video poker.
Highway to Hell Part 2:
Now imagine you are traveling down a lonely road that was the target of college hazing by the well known fraternity Delta Iota Kappa (DIK for short). Prospective members had to plant "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile on a stretch of unmaintained road, with either made up names, or the names of the school's staff. You then travel down this route, with completely random distributions of trash, where the mile markers are contrived and literally tell you less than nothing... and notice that:
Mile one belonging to Dean Smith is clean and bald.
Mile two belonging to Professor Cully is dirty and smelly.
Mile three belonging to the Dickless family is spotless and flat.
Mile four belonging to the Bush family is filthy and disorganized.
And so on...No offense to anyone real is intended.
Now it is the time for introspection and honesty. Assuming you knew nothing of the ruse, can you really tell me you wouldn't draw any conclusion about the names printed on the signs, or at least suspect possible negligence of the Bush Family, after seeing the state of their mile???..???
Of course you would. We all would! It is human nature. But here is the real point: THERE ARE NO MILE MARKERS. It is one continuous stretch of unmaintained road, that simply has imaginary lines of demarcation that force our minds down one-way dead end streets. This is the very sophomoric prank we play on our own minds every time we change machines, leave a casino, go to sleep and get up, alter strategy on a hunch, put on a different sweater, etc...ad infinitum... Anything that could possibly be used as a way point in our thoughts to measure success or failure between "here---and---there" will be grasped by our subconscious and used to fool us. Random events have no patterns beyond the ones we create in our own minds that is the very definition of random, "Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective". We just don't know when to leave well enough alone.
The only way to win, is not to play the game.
~War Games
~Frank Kneeland: Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives. www.progressive.com
Referances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
http://www.answers.com/topic/randomness
___________________________________________________________________
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote:
Hi Frank,
No, not slots. Just VPDW of late. The patterns were different on one particular machine that I had played and won on several time. I have a photographic memory and easily see patterns. I know the patterns change so, my presumption is that they changed the chip ? If not, the original chip is designed to acclimate to patterns of disciplined playing. Every since someone told me that my hunches would not pay off, I adhered & have been playing by the book and won a few days & then, the pattern change.
Last night was Amazing & I hope that everyone here has a wonderful prosperous 2011 !~ ¤(¯`*â¢.¸(¯`*â¢.¸ Meredith ¸.â¢*´¯)¸.â¢*´¯)¤ ~
Life is like a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you only spend it once.
Lillian Dickson--- On Sun, 1/2/11, Frank <frank@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Original message truncated:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote: Hi Frank, No, not slots. Just VPDW of late. The patterns were different on one particular machine that I had played and won on several time. I have a photographic memory and easily see patterns.
Ah...all becomes clear. A photographic memory can get you into a lot of trouble in VP if you are good at noticing patterns and search for them in random events. You WILL find them, but they cannot be used as predictors of the future and should be ignored. In this case, intelligence can be a handicap, unless one has had special training to avoid this mental trap. College courses in probability span years and still fail to overcome deeply ingrained beliefs we are exposed to both as children and as adults.
I have a subheading in my book entitled "Faces in the Clouds" that covers just this case. It is the inclusion of this type of information in my book (absent in other VP tomes) which prompted me to state with confidence on my website that my book is for everyone , even people that don't play progressives or gamble at all. Rather than restate what I have already published, I'll summarize with a new analogy I recently came up with while guest-hosting a radio show. Let's open with a quote:
Highway to Hell Part 1:
There was no question as to the intelligent design of the canals of Mars. The only question was, "Which side of the telescope that intelligence was on?" Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves.
Carl Sagan, Cosmos (Blues for a Red Planet) (summarized)
Imagine you are traveling down a road with "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile, stating the families responsible for each segment's upkeep. You notice:
Mile one belonging to the Robinson's is clean.
Mile two belonging to the Smith's is dirty.
Mile three belonging to the Mortensen's is spotless.
Mile four belonging to the Curmudgeon's is filthy.
And so on...
Almost every person on the planet, myself included, would at first conclude that the Mortensen family must have their act together, and that the Curmudgeon family (as well as having a ridiculous name) must be dropping the ball. It might even be true; the markers provide some information, incomplete and misleading though it may be. Consider that we are making this dogmatic judgment without the slightest inclusion of the random distribution of trash along the road. This common mental deficit in nearly all humans is related to the phenomenon know as "The base rate fallacy", or "base rate neglect". The families who have adopted a stretch of highway are responsible for cleaning, they are not, however, the ones making the mess. The random distribution of trash by littering travelers is by far the more important piece of information required to make a sound judgment about the true cause of trash placement along the route. However, this information is neither provided nor available. So, as the flawed beings that we are, our minds fill in the blanks with what is available, which in this case turns out to be the same thing scattered about our mythical highway...garbage.
Now that you should have the basic idea, let's add to it and make the analogy even more applicable to video poker.
Highway to Hell Part 2:
Now imagine you are traveling down a lonely road that was the target of college hazing by the well known fraternity Delta Iota Kappa (DIK for short). Prospective members had to plant "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile on a stretch of unmaintained road, with either made up names, or the names of the school's staff. You then travel down this route, with completely random distributions of trash, where the mile markers are contrived and literally tell you less than nothing... and notice that:
Mile one belonging to Dean Smith is clean and bald.
Mile two belonging to Professor Cully is dirty and smelly.
Mile three belonging to the Dickless family is spotless and flat.
Mile four belonging to the Bush family is filthy and disorganized.
And so on...No offense to anyone real is intended.
Now it is the time for introspection and honesty. Assuming you knew nothing of the ruse, can you really tell me you wouldn't draw any conclusion about the names printed on the signs, or at least suspect possible negligence of the Bush Family, after seeing the state of their mile???..???
Of course you would. We all would! It is human nature. But here is the real point: THERE ARE NO MILE MARKERS. It is one continuous stretch of unmaintained road, that simply has imaginary lines of demarcation that force our minds down one-way dead end streets. This is the very sophomoric prank we play on our own minds every time we change machines, leave a casino, go to sleep and get up, alter strategy on a hunch, put on a different sweater, etc...ad infinitum... Anything that could possibly be used as a way point in our thoughts to measure success or failure between "here---and---there" will be grasped by our subconscious and used to fool us. Random events have no patterns beyond the ones we create in our own minds that is the very definition of random, "Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective". We just don't know when to leave well enough alone.
The only way to win, is not to play the game.
~War Games
~Frank Kneeland: Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives. www.progressive.com
Referances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
http://www.answers.com/topic/randomness
I believe this information is wrong. Swapping out reels is only required if the theme changes. To change the payback of a particular slot game, the weighting of each spot on the reels change, not the physical reels themselves. As far as I know this has always been the case.
I'm very confused. You open this post with "I believe this information is wrong." But you are saying the same thing I am, and I agree with you. You thinking I'm wrong, and my agreeing with you, should be mutually exclusive...leading to my point of contention, or lack thereof.
Perhaps I just worded it in a way that mislead you. I'm a wordy bugger sometimes...no most of the time...see, I'm doing it now.
Anyway, we are both correct. When they swap out the chipset it changes the weighting of the spots (what I call the stops). It's a software thing, but most slots have it hard-coded on e-proms. I'm unclear if there is now a pure software solution.
I miss the old days of wysiwyg.
~Happy new year
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@...> wrote:
Thanks for this Frank, cannot take it all in ATM as I 'should' be sleeping, doc appt' tomorrow & hopefully, shopping !! I'll read it in full asap. I'm sure it is good. I skimmed it. So, at this point, intelligence does not matter in VP? maybe, I should wait to ask questions..hehe..
TTYL,
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
My New Years Resolution is "That I will be less laz"
--- On Sun, 1/2/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: machine's "The Highway to Hell"
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 11:33 PM
For the post this is a reply to, see bottom.
Ah...all becomes clear. A photographic memory can get you into a lot of trouble in VP if you are good at noticing patterns and search for them in random events. You WILL find them, but they cannot be used as predictors of the future and should be ignored. In this case, intelligence can be a handicap, unless one has had special training to avoid this mental trap. College courses in probability span years and still fail to overcome deeply ingrained beliefs we are exposed to both as children and as adults.
I have a subheading in my book entitled "Faces in the Clouds" that covers just this case. It is the inclusion of this type of information in my book (absent in other VP tomes) which prompted me to state with confidence on my website that my book is for everyone , even people that don't play progressives or gamble at all. Rather than restate what I have already published, I'll summarize with a new analogy I recently came up with while guest-hosting a radio show. Let's open with a quote:
Highway to Hell Part 1:
There was no question as to the intelligent design of the canals of Mars. The only question was, "Which side of the telescope that intelligence was on?" Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves.
Carl Sagan, Cosmos (Blues for a Red Planet) (summarized)
Imagine you are traveling down a road with "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile, stating the families responsible for each segment's upkeep. You notice:
Mile one belonging to the Robinson's is clean.
Mile two belonging to the Smith's is dirty.
Mile three belonging to the Mortensen's is spotless.
Mile four belonging to the Curmudgeon's is filthy.
And so on...
Almost every person on the planet, myself included, would at first conclude that the Mortensen family must have their act together, and that the Curmudgeon family (as well as having a ridiculous name) must be dropping the ball. It might even be true; the markers provide some information, incomplete and misleading though it may be. Consider that we are making this dogmatic judgment without the slightest inclusion of the random distribution of trash along the road. This common mental deficit in nearly all humans is related to the phenomenon know as "The base rate fallacy", or "base rate neglect". The families who have adopted a stretch of highway are responsible for cleaning, they are not, however, the ones making the mess. The random distribution of trash by littering travelers is by far the more important piece of information required to make a sound judgment about the true cause of trash placement along the route. However, this information is neither
provided nor available. So, as the flawed beings that we are, our minds fill in the blanks with what is available, which in this case turns out to be the same thing scattered about our mythical highway...garbage.
Now that you should have the basic idea, let's add to it and make the analogy even more applicable to video poker.
Highway to Hell Part 2:
Now imagine you are traveling down a lonely road that was the target of college hazing by the well known fraternity Delta Iota Kappa (DIK for short). Prospective members had to plant "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile on a stretch of unmaintained road, with either made up names, or the names of the school's staff. You then travel down this route, with completely random distributions of trash, where the mile markers are contrived and literally tell you less than nothing... and notice that:
Mile one belonging to Dean Smith is clean and bald.
Mile two belonging to Professor Cully is dirty and smelly.
Mile three belonging to the Dickless family is spotless and flat.
Mile four belonging to the Bush family is filthy and disorganized.
And so on...No offense to anyone real is intended.
Now it is the time for introspection and honesty. Assuming you knew nothing of the ruse, can you really tell me you wouldn't draw any conclusion about the names printed on the signs, or at least suspect possible negligence of the Bush Family, after seeing the state of their mile???..???
Of course you would. We all would! It is human nature. But here is the real point: THERE ARE NO MILE MARKERS. It is one continuous stretch of unmaintained road, that simply has imaginary lines of demarcation that force our minds down one-way dead end streets. This is the very sophomoric prank we play on our own minds every time we change machines, leave a casino, go to sleep and get up, alter strategy on a hunch, put on a different sweater, etc...ad infinitum... Anything that could possibly be used as a way point in our thoughts to measure success or failure between "here---and---there" will be grasped by our subconscious and used to fool us. Random events have no patterns beyond the ones we create in our own minds that is the very definition of random, "Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective". We just don't know when to leave well enough alone.
The only way to win, is not to play the game.
~War Games
~Frank Kneeland: Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives. www.progressive.com
Referances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
http://www.answers.com/topic/randomness
__________________________________________________________
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote:
Hi Frank,
No, not slots. Just VPDW of late. The patterns were different on one particular machine that I had played and won on several time. I have a photographic memory and easily see patterns. I know the patterns change so, my presumption is that they changed the chip ? If not, the original chip is designed to acclimate to patterns of disciplined playing. Every since someone told me that my hunches would not pay off, I adhered & have been playing by the book and won a few days & then, the pattern change.
Last night was Amazing & I hope that everyone here has a wonderful prosperous 2011 !
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
Life is like a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you only spend it once.
Lillian Dickson
--- On Sun, 1/2/11, Frank <frank@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well to suggest that intelligence doesn't matter was not my intention. As I'm sure you know, it can be a blessing and a curse. Intelligence effects the ability and speed at which we learn, and helps us to answer questions. Often though, our upbringing influences the questions we ask. And even the best answers to the wrong questions can lead us astray.
Scientists long ago discovered that if you work from the point of view of trying to prove a theory, rather than disprove it, too many false beliefs make it through the cracks; which is why the current scientific method requires rigorous attempts to disprove everything, before passing theory into fact.
One of my favorite quotes is:
Science is built up of facts, as a house is built of stones; but an accumulation of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house. ~Henri Poincaré, Science and Hypothesis, 1905
Look forward to your comments after you have read the whole post.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@...> wrote:
Thanks for this Frank, cannot take it all in ATM as I 'should' be sleeping, doc appt' tomorrow & hopefully, shopping !! I'll read it in full asap. I'm sure it is good. I skimmed it. So, at this point, intelligence does not matter in VP? maybe, I should wait to ask questions..hehe..
TTYL,~ ¤(¯`*â¢.¸(¯`*â¢.¸ Meredith ¸.â¢*´¯)¸.â¢*´¯)¤ ~
My New Years Resolution is "That I will be less laz"--- On Sun, 1/2/11, Frank <frank@...> wrote:
From: Frank <frank@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: machine's "The Highway to Hell"
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, January 2, 2011, 11:33 PMÂ
For the post this is a reply to, see bottom.
Ah...all becomes clear. A photographic memory can get you into a lot of trouble in VP if you are good at noticing patterns and search for them in random events. You WILL find them, but they cannot be used as predictors of the future and should be ignored. In this case, intelligence can be a handicap, unless one has had special training to avoid this mental trap. College courses in probability span years and still fail to overcome deeply ingrained beliefs we are exposed to both as children and as adults.
I have a subheading in my book entitled "Faces in the Clouds" that covers just this case. It is the inclusion of this type of information in my book (absent in other VP tomes) which prompted me to state with confidence on my website that my book is for everyone , even people that don't play progressives or gamble at all. Rather than restate what I have already published, I'll summarize with a new analogy I recently came up with while guest-hosting a radio show. Let's open with a quote:
Highway to Hell Part 1:
There was no question as to the intelligent design of the canals of Mars. The only question was, "Which side of the telescope that intelligence was on?" Where we have strong emotions, we're liable to fool ourselves.
Carl Sagan, Cosmos (Blues for a Red Planet) (summarized)
Imagine you are traveling down a road with "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile, stating the families responsible for each segment's upkeep. You notice:
Mile one belonging to the Robinson's is clean.
Mile two belonging to the Smith's is dirty.
Mile three belonging to the Mortensen's is spotless.
Mile four belonging to the Curmudgeon's is filthy.
And so on...
Almost every person on the planet, myself included, would at first conclude that the Mortensen family must have their act together, and that the Curmudgeon family (as well as having a ridiculous name) must be dropping the ball. It might even be true; the markers provide some information, incomplete and misleading though it may be. Consider that we are making this dogmatic judgment without the slightest inclusion of the random distribution of trash along the road. This common mental deficit in nearly all humans is related to the phenomenon know as "The base rate fallacy", or "base rate neglect". The families who have adopted a stretch of highway are responsible for cleaning, they are not, however, the ones making the mess. The random distribution of trash by littering travelers is by far the more important piece of information required to make a sound judgment about the true cause of trash placement along the route. However, this information is neither
provided nor available. So, as the flawed beings that we are, our minds fill in the blanks with what is available, which in this case turns out to be the same thing scattered about our mythical highway...garbage.Now that you should have the basic idea, let's add to it and make the analogy even more applicable to video poker.
Highway to Hell Part 2:
Now imagine you are traveling down a lonely road that was the target of college hazing by the well known fraternity Delta Iota Kappa (DIK for short). Prospective members had to plant "adopt a highway" mile markers every mile on a stretch of unmaintained road, with either made up names, or the names of the school's staff. You then travel down this route, with completely random distributions of trash, where the mile markers are contrived and literally tell you less than nothing... and notice that:
Mile one belonging to Dean Smith is clean and bald.
Mile two belonging to Professor Cully is dirty and smelly.
Mile three belonging to the Dickless family is spotless and flat.
Mile four belonging to the Bush family is filthy and disorganized.
And so on...No offense to anyone real is intended.
Now it is the time for introspection and honesty. Assuming you knew nothing of the ruse, can you really tell me you wouldn't draw any conclusion about the names printed on the signs, or at least suspect possible negligence of the Bush Family, after seeing the state of their mile???..???
Of course you would. We all would! It is human nature. But here is the real point: THERE ARE NO MILE MARKERS. It is one continuous stretch of unmaintained road, that simply has imaginary lines of demarcation that force our minds down one-way dead end streets. This is the very sophomoric prank we play on our own minds every time we change machines, leave a casino, go to sleep and get up, alter strategy on a hunch, put on a different sweater, etc...ad infinitum... Anything that could possibly be used as a way point in our thoughts to measure success or failure between "here---and---there" will be grasped by our subconscious and used to fool us. Random events have no patterns beyond the ones we create in our own minds that is the very definition of random, "Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective". We just don't know when to leave well enough alone.
The only way to win, is not to play the game.
~War Games
~Frank Kneeland: Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives. www.progressive.com
Referances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
http://www.answers.com/topic/randomness
__________________________________________________________
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Frank,
> No, not slots. Just VPDW of late. The patterns were different on one particular machine that I had played and won on several time. I have a photographic memory and easily see patterns. I know the patterns change so, my presumption is that they changed the chip ? If not, the original chip is designed to acclimate to patterns of disciplined playing. Every since someone told me that my hunches would not pay off, I adhered & have been playing by the book and won a few days & then, the pattern change.
> Last night was Amazing & I hope that everyone here has a wonderful prosperous 2011 !
>
>
> ~ ä(ï`*ââ¬Â¢.ø(ï`*ââ¬Â¢.ø Meredith ø.ââ¬Â¢*ôï)ø.ââ¬Â¢*ôï)ä ~
> Life is like a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you only spend it once.
> Lillian Dickson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 1/2/11, Frank <frank@> wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
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In the electromechanical days, the reels had wheels with slots on them. A lever would fit into the slot to stop the reel and the depth of the reel caused the other end of the lever to touch contacts corresponding to the payout of that reel position. There was no weighting of the reel positions, so changing the hold required changing both the reel strips as well as the slotted wheel that went with it. All payouts were controlled with relay logic. Old slots like this are a nightmare to repair.
D
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@...> wrote:
I believe this information is wrong. Swapping out reels is only required if the theme changes. To change the payback of a particular slot game, the weighting of each spot on the reels change, not the physical reels themselves. As far as I know this has always been the case.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2011, at 4:19 PM, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
> This is an interesting question. Since video poker machines cannot be "changed" without a visible alteration to the pay-table, I can only guess you are asking about slots.
> In the old days most casinos only changed slot return after monthly or quarterly accounting sessions, or even more commonly during remodeling. Changing the return of a slot required replacing the reels and as this was costly, it was usually avoided. Nor did the casinos need to change them, many slots (Even the ones with 10% meter-rise) had massive holds and needed no alteration to be big bread winners for the house.
>
> Machines might be shut down and checked for errors mid-month, only if they required 3 fills in a shift (standard house rule). Even so they were not changed, only fixed, if broken.
>
> This is no longer the case. Now changing the return of a slot only requires swapping out the chip-set, with no alteration to the hardware or physical reels. I have even heard that some casinos can alter return on the fly with newly available software suites.
>
> I have not personally verified or disproved these claims, since I stopped playing slots the day the went electromechanical.> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Do any of you know how often the machine's are updated or changed ?? IE:: a bunch of people are winning on one machine,do they change it ?
Correction to my previous post. nickdanger77 is correct, I used the wrong term. This was due to a complete lack of being perfect on my part. I'm still working on being perfect, I'll be sure a let everyone know when I get there.
I meant to say, "Chip Controlled" , not "electromechanical". We still played some slot progressives, like the Frontier 4-coin dollar even after the switchover from purely mechanical slots.
And to borrow a joke from Eddie Izzard.
While I'm making corrections...
To Susan in the 11th grade, what I meant to say was:
"Susan, I saw you in class today,
"as the sun shone with a brilliant
light that caught your hair.
"lt was haloed. You turned,
your eyes flashed fire into my soul.
"I immediately read the words
of Dostoevsky and Karl Marx,
"and in the words
of Albert Schweitzer, I fancy you."
Instead of:
"Hello, Sue.
"I've got legs.
"Do you like bread?
"I've got a French loaf.
"Bye.
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nickdanger77" <darrellg@...> wrote:
In the electromechanical days, the reels had wheels with slots on them. A lever would fit into the slot to stop the reel and the depth of the reel caused the other end of the lever to touch contacts corresponding to the payout of that reel position. There was no weighting of the reel positions, so changing the hold required changing both the reel strips as well as the slotted wheel that went with it. All payouts were controlled with relay logic. Old slots like this are a nightmare to repair.
D
— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@> wrote:
>
> I believe this information is wrong. Swapping out reels is only required if the theme changes. To change the payback of a particular slot game, the weighting of each spot on the reels change, not the physical reels themselves. As far as I know this has always been the case.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 1, 2011, at 4:19 PM, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> > This is an interesting question. Since video poker machines cannot be "changed" without a visible alteration to the pay-table, I can only guess you are asking about slots.
>
> > In the old days most casinos only changed slot return after monthly or quarterly accounting sessions, or even more commonly during remodeling. Changing the return of a slot required replacing the reels and as this was costly, it was usually avoided. Nor did the casinos need to change them, many slots (Even the ones with 10% meter-rise) had massive holds and needed no alteration to be big bread winners for the house.
> >
> > Machines might be shut down and checked for errors mid-month, only if they required 3 fills in a shift (standard house rule). Even so they were not changed, only fixed, if broken.
> >
> > This is no longer the case. Now changing the return of a slot only requires swapping out the chip-set, with no alteration to the hardware or physical reels. I have even heard that some casinos can alter return on the fly with newly available software suites.
> >
> > I have not personally verified or disproved these claims, since I stopped playing slots the day the went electromechanical.
>
>
> > — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Meredith And Kenny <meredithandkenny@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Do any of you know how often the machine's are updated or changed ?? IE:: a bunch of people are winning on one machine,do they change it ?
>
This is some more grapevine stuff I heard from the old guys. The old electromechanicals also came in progressive form. This is the process they used to determine the payback percentage of the game between top line hits. They would make a hundred spins or so recording what symbol or blank landed on the line, what symbol or blank landed above the line, and what symbol or blank landed below the line. They did this for each reel.
Then they would take the results and cull out all the duplicates. This told them how many stops were on each reel and how many of each type of symbol was on each reel. As the old timers told me, the typical 3 reel electromechanical had 22 stops on each reel.
If there was only one top line symbol on each reel then the frequency was 22X22X22=10,648.
For the other symbols, if there were, say two triple bars on each reel then the frequency would be 11X11X11=1,331. If the payout on the triple bars was 200 for 1 then 200/1331=15.02628%.
By repeating this process for all the symbols they could determine the payback percentage between top line hits. That told them what the drop was between top line hits.
If the drop was 7% and they wanted a 3% advantage to play then they would need a top line hit that paid about 1065 for 1. 1065/10,648=10%.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nickdanger77" <darrellg@...> wrote:
In the electromechanical days, the reels had wheels with slots on them. A lever would fit into the slot to stop the reel and the depth of the reel caused the other end of the lever to touch contacts corresponding to the payout of that reel position. There was no weighting of the reel positions, so changing the hold required changing both the reel strips as well as the slotted wheel that went with it. All payouts were controlled with relay logic. Old slots like this are a nightmare to repair.
D
We called it "Walking the Reels", and I can confirm that this is exactly how we did it. I believe I only had to do it twice, as I came in during the last days of slots as VP was already overshadowing it.
Trying to Determine the return of chip controlled slots is called, "Doing a Frequency Study", and you only count, what lands on the pay-line.
There are three methods for determining modern slot return, that I know of, not all of them legal. Does anyone wish to speculate on what they are???
1. Frequency Study
2. ?
3. ?
~FK
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nickdanger77" <darrellg@> wrote:
>
> In the electromechanical days, the reels had wheels with slots on them. A lever would fit into the slot to stop the reel and the depth of the reel caused the other end of the lever to touch contacts corresponding to the payout of that reel position. There was no weighting of the reel positions, so changing the hold required changing both the reel strips as well as the slotted wheel that went with it. All payouts were controlled with relay logic. Old slots like this are a nightmare to repair.
>
> D
>
This is some more grapevine stuff I heard from the old guys. The old electromechanicals also came in progressive form. This is the process they used to determine the payback percentage of the game between top line hits. They would make a hundred spins or so recording what symbol or blank landed on the line, what symbol or blank landed above the line, and what symbol or blank landed below the line. They did this for each reel.Then they would take the results and cull out all the duplicates. This told them how many stops were on each reel and how many of each type of symbol was on each reel. As the old timers told me, the typical 3 reel electromechanical had 22 stops on each reel.
If there was only one top line symbol on each reel then the frequency was 22X22X22=10,648.
For the other symbols, if there were, say two triple bars on each reel then the frequency would be 11X11X11=1,331. If the payout on the triple bars was 200 for 1 then 200/1331=15.02628%.
By repeating this process for all the symbols they could determine the payback percentage between top line hits. That told them what the drop was between top line hits.
If the drop was 7% and they wanted a 3% advantage to play then they would need a top line hit that paid about 1065 for 1. 1065/10,648=10%.
Bribing a slot technician?
On 1/3/2011 6:19 PM, Frank wrote:
We called it "Walking the Reels", and I can confirm that this is exactly how we did it. I believe I only had to do it twice, as I came in during the last days of slots as VP was already overshadowing it.
Trying to Determine the return of chip controlled slots is called, "Doing a Frequency Study", and you only count, what lands on the pay-line.
There are three methods for determining modern slot return, that I know of, not all of them legal. Does anyone wish to speculate on what they are???
1. Frequency Study
2. ?
3. ?~FK
haha ! Good one Mike, don't get me thinking on that one too much..hehe
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
--- On Tue, 1/4/11, Mike Starr <mike@writestarr.com> wrote:
From: Mike Starr <mike@writestarr.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: machine's
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 3:30 AM
Bribing a slot technician?
On 1/3/2011 6:19 PM, Frank wrote:
We called it "Walking the Reels", and I can confirm that this is exactly how we did it. I believe I only had to do it twice, as I came in during the last days of slots as VP was already overshadowing it.
Trying to Determine the return of chip controlled slots is called, "Doing a Frequency Study", and you only count, what lands on the pay-line.
There are three methods for determining modern slot return, that I know of, not all of them legal. Does anyone wish to speculate on what they are???
1. Frequency Study
2. ?
3. ?
~FK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We have a winner!
Bribing a slot technician, is correct for the second way.
Anyone have the third?
There are three methods for determining modern slot return, that I know of, not all of them legal. Does anyone wish to speculate on what they are???
> 1. Frequency Study
> 2. Bribing a slot technician
> 3. ?
Clue: the third is legal and 100% accurate.
~FK
The Casino posts it.
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
--- On Tue, 1/4/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: machine's
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 6:15 AM
We have a winner!
Bribing a slot technician, is correct for the second way.
Anyone have the third?
There are three methods for determining modern slot return, that I know of, not all of them legal. Does anyone wish to speculate on what they are???
> 1. Frequency Study
> 2. Bribing a slot technician
> 3. ?
Clue: the third is legal and 100% accurate.
~FK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Asking the gaming board for their audit record of the machine?
--- On Mon, 1/3/11, Frank <frank@progressivevp.com> wrote:
From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: machine's
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 10:15 PM
We have a winner!
Bribing a slot technician, is correct for the second way.
Anyone have the third?
There are three methods for determining modern slot return, that I know of, not all of them legal. Does anyone wish to speculate on what they are???
> 1. Frequency Study
> 2. Bribing a slot technician
> 3. ?
Clue: the third is legal and 100% accurate.
~FK
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
examining the PAR sheet?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
We have a winner!
Bribing a slot technician, is correct for the second way.
Anyone have the third?
I think I was right. I believe that by Law, the actual Casino has to divulge that information.
~ ¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Meredith ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ ~
When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.
--- On Tue, 1/4/11, ukstages <takeme2london@gmail.com> wrote:
From: ukstages <takeme2london@gmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: machine's
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 4, 2011, 6:43 AM
examining the PAR sheet?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:
We have a winner!
Bribing a slot technician, is correct for the second way.
Anyone have the third?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]