vpFREE2 Forums

Just in case anyone has the urge to set foot in an Indian casino

#1

(excerpt from an article on the expansion of casino gambling in
California)

Now, the state has more than 60,000 slot machines, the most
lucrative game for any casino owner, and tribal casinos generate
roughly $5 billion to $6 billion annually.

For now, California's gambling industry remains considerably smaller
than Nevada's, which has 220,000 slots and generates more than $9
billion in annual revenue.

(end of excerpt; full text available on yahoo.com)

So! Do the math: with 350 percent of the machines (or, three and a
half times as many), Nevada barely manages to earn 1 1/2 times the
profits. Or to put it another way, them Injuns manage to make over
TWICE per slot machine (which of course includes VP) as those poor
rubes in Nevada do!!

Kinda makes you wanna jump right up, go out to the car, and drive
down to the UpChuckABuck tribal casino right now, doesn't it???

#2

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:

them Injuns

Please refrain from language like that.

#3

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"

<rockofjello333@y...>

wrote:
> them Injuns

Please refrain from language like that.

Sorry, Kemosabe, red brother no believe-um in paleface political
correctness.

(I hasten to add, given that this person may not be the only
completely irony-proof person on this board, that I use the
reference to "Indians", "Injuns". etc. in an ironic sense since the
Indian bands that "own" these casinos usually total about 100 souls;
the true owners and managers are large holding companies, shell
corporations, Mafia, etc.)

Must go dance-um around council fire now, then go get wampum from
ATM to go to Heap Big Feast Buffet. Ugh!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "testpro" <testpro@y...> wrote:

#4

In my opinion, your use of a derogatory term has nothing to do with
political correctness or irony. It's simply a derogatory term which
added nothing positive to your post, and should not be condoned.
Also, testpro made a polite request. Thank you, testpro, for
speaking up.

Frank

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...>
> wrote:
> > them Injuns
>
> Please refrain from language like that.

Sorry, Kemosabe, red brother no believe-um in paleface political
correctness.

(I hasten to add, given that this person may not be the only
completely irony-proof person on this board, that I use the
reference to "Indians", "Injuns". etc. in an ironic sense since

the

Indian bands that "own" these casinos usually total about 100

souls;

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "testpro" <testpro@y...> wrote:
the true owners and managers are large holding companies, shell
corporations, Mafia, etc.)

#5

fayokoyama <FYokoyama@aol.com> wrote:In my opinion, your use of a derogatory term has nothing to do with
political correctness or irony. It's simply a derogatory term which
added nothing positive to your post, and should not be condoned.
Also, testpro made a polite request. Thank you, testpro, for
speaking up.

Frank

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...>
> wrote:
> > them Injuns
>
> Please refrain from language like that.

Sorry, Kemosabe, red brother no believe-um in paleface political
correctness.

(I hasten to add, given that this person may not be the only
completely irony-proof person on this board, that I use the
reference to "Indians", "Injuns". etc. in an ironic sense since

the

Indian bands that "own" these casinos usually total about 100

souls;

the true owners and managers are large holding companies, shell
corporations, Mafia, etc.)

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "testpro" <testpro@y...> wrote:

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hey buddy, lighten up I"m sure he ment no disrepect. I've got injun in me few generations ago. If I thought I could start a new band of Injuns in fl I would do it and become a millionaire

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

Not to say that gambling in an Indian casino is a GOOD idea, but there is another factor besides tight holds:

In every Indian casino I've been in, (most of which were in New Mexico, so maybe it's not like this everywhere) the place is PACKED. 95% of the machines are occupied on any given evening, whereas in Vegas, it's more like 30%. Hence, more profit/machine at the Buym'R'Landbak casino than

···

at the Bellagio. John rockofjello333 wrote:

(excerpt from an article on the expansion of casino gambling in California)

Now, the state has more than 60,000 slot machines, the most lucrative game for any casino owner, and tribal casinos generate roughly $5 billion to $6 billion annually.

For now, California's gambling industry remains considerably smaller than Nevada's, which has 220,000 slots and generates more than $9 billion in annual revenue.

(end of excerpt; full text available on yahoo.com)

So! Do the math: with 350 percent of the machines (or, three and a half times as many), Nevada barely manages to earn 1 1/2 times the profits. Or to put it another way, them Injuns manage to make over TWICE per slot machine (which of course includes VP) as those poor rubes in Nevada do!!

Kinda makes you wanna jump right up, go out to the car, and drive down to the UpChuckABuck tribal casino right now, doesn't it???

#7

fayokoyama <FYokoyama@a...> wrote:In my opinion, your use of a

derogatory term

"Injun" is the exact same term as "Indian". It's just a
colloquialization of the pronunciation. In the same era (19th
century) you might refer to someone from France as "Frenchy", and no
offense would be meant or taken. So, unless you are saying "Indian"
is a derogatory term, your shaky logic fails.

has nothing to do with

political correctness or irony. It's simply a derogatory term

which

added nothing positive to your post,

Actually, I meant it to convey a touch of irony, as explained in a
previous post, but I suspect you're immune to that.

and should not be condoned.

By whom? YOU? It's this absurd crap of leaping down the throat of
anyone who uses a term or expression that could CONCEIVABLY offend
someone that raises the hackles of myself and anyone else who feels
that the PC pendulum has swung too far.
  

Also, testpro made a polite request. Thank you, testpro, for
speaking up.

Polite, and inappropriate. I refuse to police myself, or endorse the
policing of others, so that I have to bastardize and bowldlerize my
speech and writing so as to make it impossible to offend anyone. I
refuse to participate in this idiocy wherein retarded people
are "special", short people are "height-challenged". etc. etc. etc.
etc. etc.

Although, I WOULD endorse the substitution of "royal-challenged"
for "unlucky".

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, grady guy <gradyg2003@y...> wrote:

#8

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:
An offensive post that will not be repeated here.

Nice display of ignorance. Your analysis is flawed and the disrespect
you demonstrate towards Native Americans is beyond the pale.

John Kelly correctly points out that the usage of machines in CA is
much heavier than in Las Vegas. The California casinos are also
enjoying the benefits of being regional monopolies. Managers of these
casinos would be foolish to lower the hold when they have such an
endless supply of suckers and "recreational gamblers" that happily
lose their fun money.

You have also lumped all Indian casinos into one bucket, bigots tend
to not distinguish between individual members of a group,
coincidence, I think not. My local Native American casino has a large
supply of NSUDs from .05 to 1.00 and .2% cashback. Their double deck
blackjack rules put the strip casinos to shame. The conditions in
California casinos do not nessesarily translate to the rest of the
nation.

I have never run in to anyone who was both a bigot and intellegent,
you have not broken that mold. Your defense of your comments under
the umbrella of anti-PC is shallow. I don't like political
correctness either and people like you are the ones to blame for its
existance. -JFR

#9

To follow up on John's email, I have been to many of the casinos
Northern and Southern California as well as those scattered through
the Gold Country. And not only are they PACKED, the ratio of slot
machines to VP is far different than LV. MANY more slot machines,
higher denoms, all of which contribute to the higher hold.

#10

rockofjello333,

It has nothing to do with "logic." In my opinion, you used a
derogatory and offensive term to refer to American Indians, and now
you are trying to justify it. I think it's offensive; you don't.
Here are links showing the term is offensive:

http://www.lookwayup.com/lwu.exe/lwu/d?s=f&w=Injun

http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary/Injun

Post what you want. I'm just giving my opinion.

Frank

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

> fayokoyama <FYokoyama@a...> wrote:In my opinion, your use of a
derogatory term

"Injun" is the exact same term as "Indian". It's just a
colloquialization of the pronunciation. In the same era (19th
century) you might refer to someone from France as "Frenchy", and

no

offense would be meant or taken. So, unless you are

saying "Indian"

is a derogatory term, your shaky logic fails.

has nothing to do with
> political correctness or irony. It's simply a derogatory term
which
> added nothing positive to your post,

Actually, I meant it to convey a touch of irony, as explained in a
previous post, but I suspect you're immune to that.

and should not be condoned.

By whom? YOU? It's this absurd crap of leaping down the throat of
anyone who uses a term or expression that could CONCEIVABLY offend
someone that raises the hackles of myself and anyone else who

feels

that the PC pendulum has swung too far.
  
> Also, testpro made a polite request. Thank you, testpro, for
> speaking up.

Polite, and inappropriate. I refuse to police myself, or endorse

the

policing of others, so that I have to bastardize and bowldlerize

my

speech and writing so as to make it impossible to offend anyone. I
refuse to participate in this idiocy wherein retarded people
are "special", short people are "height-challenged". etc. etc.

etc.

#11

I suppose one person's lemons is another's lemonade. Lots of those
Cal. tribe casinos yall bash put in high denom cherry pie, bingo
slots and the like and folks in the know made a killing. Playing
those bonus slots was about thousand times more profitable(and less
risky) than any vp.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "MJRaposa" <MJRaposa@a...> wrote:

To follow up on John's email, I have been to many of the casinos
Northern and Southern California as well as those scattered through
the Gold Country. And not only are they PACKED, the ratio of slot
machines to VP is far different than LV. MANY more slot machines,
higher denoms, all of which contribute to the higher hold.

#12

donparks21 :"Playing those bonus slots was about thousand times more
profitable(and less risky) than any vp. "

  And this is based on what?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

What is your question, do you want a log of my plays,
entry points and results?

···

donparks21 :"Playing those bonus slots was about thousand times
more profitable(and less risky) than any vp. "

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "MHS" <mspevack@m...> wrote:

And this is based on what?

#14

Stranded as I am in New Mexico, I have found only one bank of 10 full-
pay VP machines at our many casinos. There are probably more--I've
run out of patience trying to find them. They're all Multi-Game with
9/6 JoB or 8/5 Bonus, of course: less than 100% games.

What REALLY gets me is the bank is usually full with people waiting,
and 7 out of 10 are playing KENO!!! AAAAARGH!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Kelly <jwkelly@f...> wrote:

In every Indian casino I've been in, (most of which were in New Mexico,
so maybe it's not like this everywhere) the place is PACKED. 95% of the
machines are occupied on any given evening.

#15

   donparks21 :"Playing those bonus slots was about thousand times

more profitable(and less risky) than any vp. "

  And this is based on what?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I'm not donparks21, but my reply would be that this was based on
practical experience. When these bonus slots were abundant, I was
winning on something like 70% - 80% of my plays, with mostly small
losses on the other 20% - 30%. This was over thousands of trials.
Bankroll growth was steady and upward. Of course it was impossible
to exactly quantify our advantage by direct computation (such as can
be done with VP), but our actual results strongly suggested that we
were playing with a very significant advantage. These machines were
the nearest thing to a money tree that I have ever seen. Too bad
almost all of them have been taken out.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "MHS" <mspevack@m...> wrote:

#16

That pretty much sums it up. My Dad used to ask me if I was going to
the "ATM machine" this weekend. I have found $25 baseball machines
with 59 runs, $25 build your bonus with one puzzle piece missing from
all three, $5 bonus pies with one to go and 100 in the basket, etc.
You are right you can't give anyone an exact advantage # on any of
this but who cares? It was better than having a printing press..while
it lasted.

>
> donparks21 :"Playing those bonus slots was about thousand

times

more profitable(and less risky) than any vp. "

> And this is based on what?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I'm not donparks21, but my reply would be that this was based on
practical experience. When these bonus slots were abundant, I was
winning on something like 70% - 80% of my plays, with mostly small
losses on the other 20% - 30%. This was over thousands of trials.
Bankroll growth was steady and upward. Of course it was impossible
to exactly quantify our advantage by direct computation (such as

can

be done with VP), but our actual results strongly suggested that we
were playing with a very significant advantage. These machines

were

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter" <eecounter@h...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "MHS" <mspevack@m...> wrote:
the nearest thing to a money tree that I have ever seen. Too bad
almost all of them have been taken out.

EE

#17

donparks21 wrote: "What is your question, do you want a log of my plays,
  entry points and results? "

  > donparks21 :"Playing those bonus slots was about thousand times
  > more profitable(and less risky) than any vp. "

   It is simple. On what do you base the statement about the "bonus slots
being 1,000 times more profitable (and less risky) than any vp"? Anything
you used to issue that statement so publicly would help us evaluate its
substance. Thank you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

Read the ee counter post above, he is correct about 70% or so of
plays were winners (and someimes huge). In 2 years of playing I made
60k. I was only a part time player, max two days a week. $5 machines
could be played with the bankroll needed for .25 vp. I saw a guy with
a couple hundred to his name build a banroll of 50k starting out on 5
cent fireworks slots and moving up from there. The downside was you
had a lot of competition and many were not very nice people.

   donparks21 wrote: "What is your question, do you want a log of

my plays,

  entry points and results? "

  > donparks21 :"Playing those bonus slots was about thousand times
  > more profitable(and less risky) than any vp. "

   It is simple. On what do you base the statement about the "bonus

slots

being 1,000 times more profitable (and less risky) than any vp"?

Anything

you used to issue that statement so publicly would help us evaluate

its

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "MHS" <mspevack@m...> wrote:

substance. Thank you.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

donparks21 wrote: "In 2 years of playing I made
  60k. I was only a part time player, max two days a week. $5 machines
  could be played with the bankroll needed for .25 vp. I saw a guy with
  a couple hundred to his name build a banroll of 50k starting out on 5
  cent fireworks slots and moving up from there. The downside was you
  had a lot of competition and many were not very nice people. "

  Gee, did you have a system or was it dumb luck?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#20

MHS wrote:

   donparks21 wrote: "In 2 years of playing I made
  60k. I was only a part time player, max two days a week. $5 machines
  could be played with the bankroll needed for .25 vp. I saw a guy with
  a couple hundred to his name build a banroll of 50k starting out on 5
  cent fireworks slots and moving up from there. The downside was you
  had a lot of competition and many were not very nice people. "

  Gee, did you have a system or was it dumb luck?

It _had_ to be dumb luck; there is no such thing as an effective system when playing regular slots. For the few people who actually win lots of money, there are far more who lose. Believe me, the casinos aren't out there to hand out money to people who need do no more than press a button. The fact that there might be some very slim edge, if any, in VP is because it requires enough brains and know how that they remain profitable. When enough people begin to play VP such that it is no longer profitable, then the casinos will pull them.

For what it's worth, I've met a lot of people in my life who, 'excuse the french', bull-shit ... and they bull-shit a LOT. Why? I have no idea; I guess it's fun to them. I'm not saying that folks who claim to have won a small fortune playing regular slots are necessarily lying or exaggerating, but I am skeptical, to say the least -- and it doesn't really matter anyway because no amount of such nonsense is ever going to be able to convince me that I ought to play regular slots instead of VP. And since this is a VP forum, anyone who comes here and makes a rather unbelievable statement like "$5 machines could be played with the bankroll need for .25 vp" ... as if that were the rule rather than the _VERY_RARE_ exception ... is either an idiot or a troll.

Hope your having fun.

Bill Velek