vpFREE2 Forums

Interrogated At Edgewater: Did you cheat?

#41

I do not normally post on this group, but would like to share a similar
experience. I am a quarter player, and last year I was playing DW at the
Taj in AC (yes, it is only 97.05%). In November of last year I hit quad
Deuces twice on the same machine in a six hour session. I went back that
December and on the SAME machine, I hit quad Deuces 4 times in a 6 hour
session. This was before the Taj added TITO's on these old slant tops. At
the third hand payout, the attendant mentioned that I was quite lucky.
Shortly after he left, I had security buzzing around me like flies. When I
hit the fourth quad Deuces, I looked over at what looked like a supervisor
of security, and said to him "well, I think the machine is now going to go
cold on me". I stopped playing that machine, and the security team broke
up.
Ted

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
jackessiebabe
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:23 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Behavior of Cage Supervisor - (Interrogated At
Edgewater: Did you cheat?)

Good Morning, Bob.

Thank you for a thoughtful and interesting post.

For the "average" player, be he/she a flea or a bumble bee, I will
still disagree with you (civilly, of course).

In your particular case, your point is well taken that you are a
known and recognized VP celebrity. I do understand that when you
are in a casino, you are under the constant scrutiny of both casino
employees and other players. Therefore, in order to conduct your
business in the most expeditious possible manner, it behooves you to
be perceived as a calm and rational individual.

Under your unusual circumstances, I agree that it is best for you to
keep a very low profile, fly under the radar as much as possible,
and reserve your legimate complaints for those that are very serious.

So, in your case, we are on the same page. Our civil disagreement
pertains to vast majority of unsung and unknown VP players. For
those folks, including myself, I must stick with my original
premise.

IMO, the cage supervisor was unnecessarily rude, insulting and
demeaning during his interrogation of Brian. Had he been polite,
while attempting to garner the information he was seeking from
Brian, I would not have objected. i.e. Had he said (with a pleasant
smile of course) "You've certainly been lucky today. What have you
been playing that enabled you to collect so many $500 tickets?" If
he had phrased his query in that manner, I doubt that Brian would
have even taken note of the questions, no less posted about the
experience.

I asume that the supervisor believed that he was fulfilling the
tenets of his job description. Perhaps he became a little over-
zealous in his desire to protect his employer's bankroll. But I
don't believe that was a legimate excuse for accusing a casino
patron of cheating.

I would take the accusation that I was cheating VERY seriously. I
would also make absolutely certain that a sincere apology was
tendered to me, by a person in authority, for the insult of
intimating that I was cheating. I am also a professional person,
engaged in a financial services business. The last thing in the
world that I want, is to be thought of as a thief, attempting to
illegally obtain money from a casino!

I do agree with your premise that Brian was unusually lucky in
snaring 6 sets of Ducks in one session. I'll even go along with your
premise that the supervisor had never seen this happen before.
However, none of this negates the fact that he was egregiously
insulting to Brian.

My personal "4 Deuces best" in a long VP "career", was 3 sets in
about 3 hours, at Fiesta Rancho, earlier this year. BTW, one set was
LDW, while the other 2 were FPDW. When I cashed in what ultimately
became an $1100+ ticket, no one questioned me at all.

I cannot argue with your statement that "some of us are more
emotional" than others. I'm sure that is true. In my case, I am
generally perceived to be calm, balanced and polite. However,
anyone who has the temerity to accuse me of dishonesty WITHOUT A
SHRED OF EVIDENCE, will quickly be shown my other side!

Best regards,

-Babe-

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@c...> wrote:

Okay. Let's disagree civilly. But I definitely stick with my
position. Let me tell you a little more about it............

               <SNIP>

........... I accept that officially I am legally the "guest" of
casinos and that they may ask me to leave for any reason they like --
- so long as it isn't because I'm non-white, female, disabled, or
some other protected class. If casinos want to question me about
something, that's their right. If they touch me, threaten me, yell
at me, or otherwise cross the line, then we'd have had a different
situation. But in the situation at the Edgewater, we had none of
that kind of abuse.

In addition to being a "guest" of the casino, one additional factor
that affects me and not most others is that I'm a well-known
gambling personality. In addition to being a winning player, a
status several others here also qualify for, I'm a "big fish in a
small pond" video-poker-wise. In effect, I am always "on stage"
when I'm in the casino. There will often be someone seeing Bob
Dancer for the firsttime, and if I do anything loud, negative, or
otherwise attention-worthy, they'll remember it --- and often talk
about it disparageingly.......................

........... (Now Brian may not be part of this "well known gambling
personality" fraternity, but them fact that I am affected my answer.)
        
Please remember that this was an unusual situation. There have
only been a few times lifetime that I've collected six or more sets
of deuces on a single-line machine in the same day.................
Having 6 of these jackpots in one day is unusual. (Come on, how many
times have YOU had this good fortune?) And 50 cents is a rather
obscure denomination --- relativelyspeaking. I doubt that this
supervisor had EVER seen more than two of these $500 jackpot tickets
at the same time before. Six all at once?.......................

.........Some people are more prone to get emotional and demand they
be treated "appropriately" than I usually am (although I've had my
moments through the years). Part of that might be a difference in
personality. Part of this might be a difference in perspective due
to our differentstatuses within the casino. There are truly times
when it's right to yell and scream and demand to speak to the
president. But this, IMO, wasn't one of them.

Bob Dancer

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#42

I don't think the play action has anything to do with
it. It is the "banking" operation of the cashiers
cage. I run into the same thing at the bank and
credit union. The brokerage will not accept cash to
avoid this problem. So, when dealing with the cashier
operation, expect the same treatment you would get
from a banking institution.

I doubt that a true launderer would use a slot card!!

···

--- Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thanks. Between this and the link that Brian sent
yesterday, I'm beginning to understand. For awhile,
I was thinking that the casinos had to report on
players playing more than $5k in action.
   
  Based on my reading this document, I'm now
thinking that they really are talking about
suspicous activity. Here's what I think they're
saying -- if someone knows otherwise, I'd like to be
corrected.
   
  If someone who plays $25 triple play VP and brings
$10,000 to the casino, that person probably would
have paperwork filed on them UNTIL they became a
regular player at that casino (at that level) -- and
showed that their level of play is "normal."
   
  Conversely, I wonder... if someone goes from being
a single line nickel player to occasionally playing
$5 fifty play -- would that trigger reporting? (It
sounds like it might....)
   
  This is interesting and thought-provoking. On a
related note, does anyone think that money
launderers use slot club cards?
   
  Lainie

#43

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...>
wrote:

snip

  If someone who plays $25 triple play VP and brings $10,000 to
the casino, that person probably would have paperwork filed on them
UNTIL they became a regular player at that casino (at that level) --
and showed that their level of play is "normal."

I think the $10,000 limit is still reported by the casino every time
anyone goes in, no matter how many times the same person does it.
    

Conversely, I wonder... if someone goes from being a single line
nickel player to occasionally playing $5 fifty play -- would that
trigger reporting? (It sounds like it might....)

It might.

Another thing the casino would look for would be for someone that
comes in and gets say $3,000 in chips at a BJ table bets $250 then
goes to the cage cashing in $2,750. Then 2 or 3 hours later, they
come back and do the same thing. Someone could even do it with
smaller amounts, set down at a $ poker machine, put in $100 cash it
out for $95 over and over, which is probably why the questions were
asked in the original post (6 * $500 tickets).

···

This is interesting and thought-provoking. On a related note, does
anyone think that money launderers use slot club cards?
   
  Lainie

#44

They might if it's not traceable.

On a related note, one has to wonder how good the facial recognition
software has gotten (the answer is classified).

Also, it might be worthwhile to note that they are not just looking
for launderers ...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Richard Boozer <reboozer@y...> wrote:

I doubt that a true launderer would use a slot card!!

#45

I hit quad ducks 6 times in two hours at the Copa in Gulfport, MS.
What made it even more remarkable is they were all hand-pays.They
congratulated me and could not of cared less. One month later I
played the same machines for four days without any ducks. The worst
luck I have ever had.Doesn't look like me or anybody else will play
there for quite a while.

I do not normally post on this group, but would like to share a

similar

experience. I am a quarter player, and last year I was playing DW

at the

Taj in AC (yes, it is only 97.05%). In November of last year I

hit quad

Deuces twice on the same machine in a six hour session. I went

back that

December and on the SAME machine, I hit quad Deuces 4 times in a 6

hour

session. This was before the Taj added TITO's on these old slant

tops. At

the third hand payout, the attendant mentioned that I was quite

lucky.

Shortly after he left, I had security buzzing around me like

flies. When I

hit the fourth quad Deuces, I looked over at what looked like a

supervisor

of security, and said to him "well, I think the machine is now

going to go

cold on me". I stopped playing that machine, and the security

team broke

up.
Ted

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On

Behalf Of

jackessiebabe
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:23 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Behavior of Cage Supervisor - (Interrogated

At

Edgewater: Did you cheat?)

Good Morning, Bob.

Thank you for a thoughtful and interesting post.

For the "average" player, be he/she a flea or a bumble bee, I will
still disagree with you (civilly, of course).

In your particular case, your point is well taken that you are a
known and recognized VP celebrity. I do understand that when you
are in a casino, you are under the constant scrutiny of both

casino

employees and other players. Therefore, in order to conduct your
business in the most expeditious possible manner, it behooves you

to

be perceived as a calm and rational individual.

Under your unusual circumstances, I agree that it is best for you

to

keep a very low profile, fly under the radar as much as possible,
and reserve your legimate complaints for those that are very

serious.

So, in your case, we are on the same page. Our civil disagreement
pertains to vast majority of unsung and unknown VP players. For
those folks, including myself, I must stick with my original
premise.

IMO, the cage supervisor was unnecessarily rude, insulting and
demeaning during his interrogation of Brian. Had he been polite,
while attempting to garner the information he was seeking from
Brian, I would not have objected. i.e. Had he said (with a

pleasant

smile of course) "You've certainly been lucky today. What have

you

been playing that enabled you to collect so many $500 tickets?"

If

he had phrased his query in that manner, I doubt that Brian would
have even taken note of the questions, no less posted about the
experience.

I asume that the supervisor believed that he was fulfilling the
tenets of his job description. Perhaps he became a little over-
zealous in his desire to protect his employer's bankroll. But I
don't believe that was a legimate excuse for accusing a casino
patron of cheating.

I would take the accusation that I was cheating VERY seriously. I
would also make absolutely certain that a sincere apology was
tendered to me, by a person in authority, for the insult of
intimating that I was cheating. I am also a professional person,
engaged in a financial services business. The last thing in the
world that I want, is to be thought of as a thief, attempting to
illegally obtain money from a casino!

I do agree with your premise that Brian was unusually lucky in
snaring 6 sets of Ducks in one session. I'll even go along with

your

premise that the supervisor had never seen this happen before.
However, none of this negates the fact that he was egregiously
insulting to Brian.

My personal "4 Deuces best" in a long VP "career", was 3 sets in
about 3 hours, at Fiesta Rancho, earlier this year. BTW, one set

was

LDW, while the other 2 were FPDW. When I cashed in what

ultimately

became an $1100+ ticket, no one questioned me at all.

I cannot argue with your statement that "some of us are more
emotional" than others. I'm sure that is true. In my case, I am
generally perceived to be calm, balanced and polite. However,
anyone who has the temerity to accuse me of dishonesty WITHOUT A
SHRED OF EVIDENCE, will quickly be shown my other side!

Best regards,

-Babe-

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@c...>

wrote:

Okay. Let's disagree civilly. But I definitely stick with my
position. Let me tell you a little more about it............

               <SNIP>

........... I accept that officially I am legally the "guest" of
casinos and that they may ask me to leave for any reason they

like --

- so long as it isn't because I'm non-white, female, disabled, or
some other protected class. If casinos want to question me about
something, that's their right. If they touch me, threaten me, yell
at me, or otherwise cross the line, then we'd have had a different
situation. But in the situation at the Edgewater, we had none of
that kind of abuse.

In addition to being a "guest" of the casino, one additional

factor

that affects me and not most others is that I'm a well-known
gambling personality. In addition to being a winning player, a
status several others here also qualify for, I'm a "big fish in a
small pond" video-poker-wise. In effect, I am always "on stage"
when I'm in the casino. There will often be someone seeing Bob
Dancer for the firsttime, and if I do anything loud, negative, or
otherwise attention-worthy, they'll remember it --- and often talk
about it disparageingly.......................

........... (Now Brian may not be part of this "well known

gambling

personality" fraternity, but them fact that I am affected my

answer.)

        
Please remember that this was an unusual situation. There have
only been a few times lifetime that I've collected six or more

sets

of deuces on a single-line machine in the same

day.................

Having 6 of these jackpots in one day is unusual. (Come on, how

many

times have YOU had this good fortune?) And 50 cents is a rather
obscure denomination --- relativelyspeaking. I doubt that this
supervisor had EVER seen more than two of these $500 jackpot

tickets

at the same time before. Six all at once?.......................

.........Some people are more prone to get emotional and demand

they

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, GTDietz <gtdietz@o...> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
be treated "appropriately" than I usually am (although I've had my
moments through the years). Part of that might be a difference in
personality. Part of this might be a difference in perspective due
to our differentstatuses within the casino. There are truly times
when it's right to yell and scream and demand to speak to the
president. But this, IMO, wasn't one of them.

Bob Dancer

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links