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HANS "TUNA" LUND (1949-2009)

Tuna passed away of cancer this past Nov 6. If you read the wiki on him, and other information online, all that is mentioned is his poker career. I first seen him at the 1992 WSOP ME. He came in third. He also had a second place finish--and two bracelets in other events. I watched that ME all the way through. Of course, I knew nothing of video poker in those days.

But when my vp career took off I kept hearing a name from other pros--Tuna Lund. He was from Sparks, Nevada. And I think he probably benefitted by attending school with many future IGT employee's. His slot and video poker progressive teams were probably the best of all time.

The stories I heard about him are of course second hand but were always very entertaining to me. As one story goes there was a person who showed up in Reno in the eighties who had a degree in electrical engineering, knew gambling math forwards and backwards, but was a compulsive gambler. His name was Kenny the Klone. He seen the potential in video poker progressives but couldn't maintain a bankroll. This was long before the published information we have today. He taught it to Tuna and Tuna took that football and ran off with it. They say he is single-handedly responsible for getting the 8-5 Jacks progressive meters all around the state knocked back to 1%.

I knew a poker dealer in Laughlin who worked for Tuna back then. He said they always had plenty of work. Tuna payed $7 an hour plus a $300 bonus for whoever hit the royal. Tuna had a scout out and when the royal was hit they just packed up and went to the new place. The old school guys told me that at one time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown Las Vegas.

Of course, Tuna got 86'd from lots of places. One story I heard was when he had his team in on a slot progressive at Harrah's Reno. Tuna had been 86'd and his team foreman needed more money. So Tuna met him in a bathroom at the Cal-Neva. When Tuna handed him the money Harrah's Suit Security came flying out of the bathroom stalls and 86'd the foreman.

One time I was in a poker game at the Peppermill/Reno and a dejected player returned to his seat and said

"I just saw a millionaire with a bucket of nickels!!!"
"What happened" I asked.
"Well, I just made a lap around the Red Hot Sevens and there was Tuna picking them off."

Red Hot Sevens was a very low-roller advantage play but it was principle with Tuna. He didn't care how big or small it was just that he had an advantage. He would jump your flush attack light in a hearbeat.

He also played strongarm. He's been known to rat a play out to management if you were the first one to the play and didn't cut him in But if he was there first he would monopolize every advantage machine in the house. But the guy could be a softie too. One time he had a slot progressive bank monopolized at the MGM but let a little old lady have a seat. She took the jackpot off. Tuna took it in stride.

A couple of months ago a very good friend, and machine pro, had the opportunity of meeting Tuna's partner on the Florida Keno progressives. I asked him to get the story on the play. This is what he was told: Him and Tuna split an $8,000,000 earn over 5 years. Even though, in the end, they were paying players $30 an hour, and got ripped off for two jackpots where the team player refused to give them the money.

I heard not many people showed for his memorial. But if there was ever a machine pro that needed a book written about it's Tuna Lund.

He's widely, and not favorably, remembered for that practice. For all the money he won, he could have won a lot more if he didn't continually alert management, either intentionally or just unintentionally due to his overly aggressive and physical personality.

He might be the first big team player, but that's the fault of the casinos, of course if you 86 someone like that they're just going to employ others to work for them, and if you 86 those players, they're just going to hire new ones. As a team manager, you need to constantly keep your crew in line to avoid being skimmed, and Tuna's personality was a natural fit there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp4QVYNAFcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jddpc5ZBCs

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

He also played strongarm. He's been known to rat a play out to management if you were the first one to the play and didn't cut him in But if he was there first he would monopolize every advantage machine in the house.

. They say he is single-handedly responsible for getting the 8-5 Jacks progressive meters all around the state knocked back to 1%.

Huh? that makes NO sense. They could set the meter at 2.50% and still make TONS of money.

The old school guys told me that at one time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown Las Vegas.

Of course you can STILL get positive plays every day in downtown. Or the Palms and a bunch of other off strip places for that matter.

But the team made tons of money too. They were an irritatin to the houses and were also an irritation to the ploppie's--the people whose action when the game was negative made the game positive. That's why the meters were knocked back.

With dozens of these banks around Las Vegas the team could cherry pick the numbers. They most assuredly always played the highest number available. Which means in lots of cases, with a 2.5% meter they were playing for $5,000 and $6,000 royals on quarters. Throw in that 2.5% meter and it's a huge edge. With just a $3500 royal, 2.5% meter, the play would be worth about $60 per man hour.

I've seen it more than one time where the pros are on a big number, with all the machines monopolized, and the ploppies are coming in and complaining that they always get a seat when the royal is low, but never get a seat where the royal is high. And what happens when the royal gets hit? Well, when the ploppie hits it the money gets played back. But when the team hits it the money goes out the door never to return. To resolve these problems the houses knocked the meters back.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

. They say he is single-handedly responsible for getting the 8-5 Jacks progressive meters all around the state knocked back to 1%.
>
>

Huh? that makes NO sense. They could set the meter at 2.50% and >still make TONS of money.

So just where are all those 8/5 Jacks progressives with the $5000 and $6000 royals these days?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

The old school guys told me that at one time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown Las Vegas.
>
>

Of course you can STILL get positive plays every day in downtown. Or >the Palms and a bunch of other off strip places for that matter.

Very nice obit, Mickey. You are always dependable for a good story.

Chandler

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Tuna passed away of cancer this past Nov 6.

You can still hunt bufallo too.

Chandler

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

The old school guys told me that at one time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown Las Vegas.
>
>

Of course you can STILL get positive plays every day in downtown. Or the Palms and a bunch of other off strip places for that matter.

"Tuna passed away of cancer this past Nov 6." His advantage wasn't large enough to over came the biggest house edge. Enjoy the life you have everyday.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <chandler_re@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
> Tuna passed away of cancer this past Nov 6.

Very nice obit, Mickey. You are always dependable for a good story.

Chandler

>
> The old school guys told me that at one time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown Las Vegas.
> >
> >
>
> Of course you can STILL get positive plays every day in downtown. Or >the Palms and a bunch of other off strip places for that matter.
>
>
>
So just where are all those 8/5 Jacks progressives with the $5000 and $6000 royals these days?

What I said was that "a positive number" is available every day both downtown and at numerous off-Strip places. For instance Palms FPDW with .25% free play. That equals 101%+. Available 24 hours a day 7 days a week without the absurdity of paying someone money to play for you.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:

I don't doubt the truth of what you say but places like Palms and Sam's Town run progressives on games a LOT better than 8/5 Jacks to this day. Caesars and Bally's in AC run 9/6 Jacks progressives as we speak. All that is required is for management to politely tell the ploppies that the machines are "first come first served" and the problem goes away. The reality is that unless the team can lock up EVERY machine they may find themselves playing a minus 3% game (and losing thousands) while someone else hits the progressive.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
>
>
> . They say he is single-handedly responsible for getting the 8-5 Jacks progressive meters all around the state knocked back to 1%.
> >
> >
>
> Huh? that makes NO sense. They could set the meter at 2.50% and >still make TONS of money.
>
>
>
But the team made tons of money too. They were an irritatin to the houses and were also an irritation to the ploppie's--the people whose action when the game was negative made the game positive. That's why the meters were knocked back.

With dozens of these banks around Las Vegas the team could cherry pick the numbers. They most assuredly always played the highest number available. Which means in lots of cases, with a 2.5% meter they were playing for $5,000 and $6,000 royals on quarters. Throw in that 2.5% meter and it's a huge edge. With just a $3500 royal, 2.5% meter, the play would be worth about $60 per man hour.

I've seen it more than one time where the pros are on a big number, with all the machines monopolized, and the ploppies are coming in and complaining that they always get a seat when the royal is low, but never get a seat where the royal is high. And what happens when the royal gets hit? Well, when the ploppie hits it the money gets played back. But when the team hits it the money goes out the door never to return. To resolve these problems the houses knocked the meters back.

The reality is that unless the team can lock up EVERY machine they may
find themselves playing a minus 3% game (and losing thousands) while
someone else hits the progressive.

For some definition of "reality."

Cogno

Mike,

You are out of your league here. FPDW is what, 7 bucks an hour? These guys are making $60 plus. Would you pay someone to play FPDW for quarters? You might pay them if the expected return is $60 plus per hour.

I'm guessing you are new here? If Mickey gets on a roll it is best to sit back and enjoy. He has seen/done things that you would never know even existed had you not stumbled onto this site.

Sit back and enjoy the ride - we have been for several years now!

Jigger

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--- On Wed, 11/25/09, mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: HANS "TUNA" LUND (1949-2009)
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 7:58 AM

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> >
> > The old school guys told me that at one
time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown
Las Vegas.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Of course you can STILL get positive plays every
day in downtown. Or >the Palms and a bunch of other off
strip places for that matter.
> >
> >
> >
> So just where are all those 8/5 Jacks progressives
with the $5000 and $6000 royals these days?

What I said was that "a positive number" is available every
day both downtown and at numerous off-Strip places.
For instance Palms FPDW with .25% free play. That
equals 101%+. Available 24 hours a day 7 days a week
without the absurdity of paying someone money to play for
you.
>

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE\-fullfeatured@yahoogroups\.com

Look, I am not arguing there are and have been lots of advantage plays. One was the Westin Causarina sign up that a lot of us burned out. Another was the $20 freebies at Mahoneys, Opera House and Poker Palace. My wife and I hit that one for a quick $120 ($60 each) till that one got burned out too. The LVA and ACG are a good way for a couple to grind out $300 or so. Some places used to (maybe still do) give out match plays every day or week-Frontier was one. Doubtless there are and have been thousands more.
My problem with some of the more boastfull "X dollars an hour" players can be boiled down with this antecdote:
Until a very few years ago the Frontier had a pair of dollar FPDW.
Using the "pro's" magical, mythical "1000 hands per hour of mistake-free perfect play for unlimited hours on end Amen" that equals an "expected return" (without comps) of $38 an hour (1000 hands times $5 a hand equals $5000 cash in times .76% equals $38 an hour).
This "$38 an hour opporotunity" was available 24 hours a day-every day.
Puzzilingly, every time I went there I had little trouble finding an empty machine. Bob Dancer wasn't there monopolizing a machine with his wife. The Queen wasn't there playing tag team with Brad. There were no "teams" nervously guarding the machines while cell-phoning their replacement players.
Matter of fact, both "$38 an hour" machines were empty as often as not.
Why?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:

Mike,

You are out of your league here. FPDW is what, 7 bucks an hour? These guys are making $60 plus. Would you pay someone to play FPDW for quarters? You might pay them if the expected return is $60 plus per hour.

I'm guessing you are new here? If Mickey gets on a roll it is best to sit back and enjoy. He has seen/done things that you would never know even existed had you not stumbled onto this site.

Sit back and enjoy the ride - we have been for several years now!

Jigger

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, mike <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

> From: mike <melbedewy1226@...>
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: HANS "TUNA" LUND (1949-2009)
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 7:58 AM
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
> "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
> "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The old school guys told me that at one
> time you could find a positive number everyday in downtown
> Las Vegas.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Of course you can STILL get positive plays every
> day in downtown. Or >the Palms and a bunch of other off
> strip places for that matter.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > So just where are all those 8/5 Jacks progressives
> with the $5000 and $6000 royals these days?
>
> What I said was that "a positive number" is available every
> day both downtown and at numerous off-Strip places.
> For instance Palms FPDW with .25% free play. That
> equals 101%+. Available 24 hours a day 7 days a week
> without the absurdity of paying someone money to play for
> you.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> vpFREE-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

So tell us, where do you find thesse whopper plays today? I'm amused that you continue to defend what you obviously know nothing about. sheesh....enjoy the story for cryin' out loud.

Jigger Woodruff

"Better for people to think you're a fool than to bang away on your keyboard and confirm it"

···

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, mike <melbedewy1226@hotmail.com> wrote:

Using the "pro's" magical, mythical "1000 hands per hour of
mistake-free perfect play for unlimited hours on end Amen"
that equals an "expected return" (without comps) of $38 an
hour (1000 hands times $5 a hand equals $5000 cash in
times .76% equals $38 an hour).
This "$38 an hour opporotunity" was available 24 hours a
day-every day.
Puzzilingly, every time I went there I had little trouble
finding an empty machine. Bob Dancer wasn't there
monopolizing a machine with his wife. The Queen wasn't
there playing tag team with Brad. There were no
"teams" nervously guarding the machines while cell-phoning
their replacement players.
Matter of fact, both "$38 an hour" machines were empty as
often as not.
Why?

------------------------------------

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE\-fullfeatured@yahoogroups\.com

In reply to melbedewy's post:

Playing a 1000 hands an hour within .1% accuracy on full pay deuces wild is not that hard. There are a lot of people on this board who could play that fast/well.

If you have a $38/hr play and there are no pros playing it, they have something else better to play.

Also, melbedwy mentioned this play was available 'a few years ago' at the Frontier. I beleive the Frontier has been closed for more than a few years and before that, the inventory was pretty depleted.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:

So tell us, where do you find thesse whopper plays today? I'm amused that you continue to defend what you obviously know nothing about. sheesh....enjoy the story for cryin' out loud.

Jigger Woodruff

"Better for people to think you're a fool than to bang away on your keyboard and confirm it"

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, mike <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
> Using the "pro's" magical, mythical "1000 hands per hour of
> mistake-free perfect play for unlimited hours on end Amen"
> that equals an "expected return" (without comps) of $38 an
> hour (1000 hands times $5 a hand equals $5000 cash in
> times .76% equals $38 an hour).
> This "$38 an hour opporotunity" was available 24 hours a
> day-every day.
> Puzzilingly, every time I went there I had little trouble
> finding an empty machine. Bob Dancer wasn't there
> monopolizing a machine with his wife. The Queen wasn't
> there playing tag team with Brad. There were no
> "teams" nervously guarding the machines while cell-phoning
> their replacement players.
> Matter of fact, both "$38 an hour" machines were empty as
> often as not.
> Why?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> vpFREE-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

Probably too much heat and better plays elsewhere. A lot of people think FPDW is the best you can get. It's ok, but there are much better plays, and don't ask me what or where.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

Until a very few years ago the Frontier had a pair of dollar FPDW.
Using the "pro's" magical, mythical "1000 hands per hour of mistake-free perfect play for unlimited hours on end Amen" that equals an "expected return" (without comps) of $38 an hour (1000 hands times $5 a hand equals $5000 cash in times .76% equals $38 an hour).
This "$38 an hour opporotunity" was available 24 hours a day-every day.
Puzzilingly, every time I went there I had little trouble finding an empty machine. Bob Dancer wasn't there monopolizing a machine with his wife. The Queen wasn't there playing tag team with Brad. There were no "teams" nervously guarding the machines while cell-phoning their replacement players.
Matter of fact, both "$38 an hour" machines were empty as often as not.
Why?

Let me also mention that in addition to his poker tournament skills, Tuna was close to world class as a backgammon player. I remember when I was first starting out, I met him at the old Reno Hilton, where he pretty much owned the weekly limit hold'em tourney. This was a good 15 years before I knew anything about machines.

I'm sorry to hear of his passing. This is a guy who should have been the first person inducted into the VP Hall of Fame, unlike most of the membership, which consists mainly of a number of amateur hobbyists who enjoy writing about VP. He was truly a world class gambling talent.

As for the team play thing, if it wasn't Tuna it would be someone else. I can name several people, all who had programming skills or access to same who were in on the ground floor of profitable video poker play in the late 80s and early 90s, and became multimillionaires.

Which kind of reminds me, we've gone from $5 9-6 Jacks at the Golden Nugget with a 5% meter and 10-7 DB progressive at Palace Station with 1% meters on the royal, the straight flush and all the quads, to pretty much "game over". Oh, there's something here and there, but now you really have to hunt for it. And if you do find something, you're really best advised to keep it to yourself, and enjoy it.

One Midwestern casino recently held their first point multiplier promotion ever in their 11 years of existence. Pretty much anyone who played video poker and garnered over $500 in total cash back had their slot privileges revoked. We're talking about mostly 9-6 Jacks with mostly .2 base cash back (there's some secret stuff there, but I think the best case scenario is about half a percent; certainly not much more than that).

This is how stupid video poker has become. What the restrictions were really about was saving some suit's job so he can show his bosses he was on top of stuff by tossing a bunch of "advantage" players. The idiot never figured out that if you have to toss people for playing machines which you set and which you control all the conditions of contest, you're the one not doing your job.

Things are ugly in Vegas right now. We have "consultants" outing skilled players to management, and making video poker pretty much a waste of time. When you win, the casino gets hostile. At one casino, I booked a two royal day, about my only winning day this year at this casino and got no mailed for it. One player, someone who I would deal to in a heartbeat, was taunted by management when she came into play after the casino went through a round of downgrades. So maybe now you understand my own hostility towards some of the writers, because to a certain extent, they created this monster to feed their own egos (and yes, I stand by this. In our business, everyone knows you check your own ego at the door, there's no 3-picture deal, there's no spot on Oprah, like some of the people have deluded themselves into thinking). But again, if not them, it would be someone else.

A Tuna Lund story cribbed from the 2+2 forums:

Funny Tuna story from a friend of his:

The El Dorado in Reno ran a Keno promotion where any winning ticket that pays $5k would be tripled (paid 15k instead of 5).

Tuna gets his whole bankroll and goes down and buys 200 one spot cards. One spots are 4-1 to happen and pay 3-1 normally, but with the promotion are paying 9-1.

They shut the promotion down immediately, but had to honor his tickets.

Apparently he ran above expectation in his 200 game run as well.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Tuna passed away of cancer this past Nov 6. If you read the wiki on him, and other information online, all that is mentioned is his poker career. I first seen him at the 1992 WSOP ME. He came in third. He also had a second place finish--and two bracelets in other events. I watched that ME all the way through. Of course, I knew nothing of video poker in those days.

This story is hilarious! It's so funny-and a typical Tuna story. Get stupid and you pay.

I can't remember the details of this story (It was several years ago) but John Ascuagua's Nugget was reimbursing players half their losses up to a set amount everyday (I think this is how it went). And I think Tuna was banging away on a $5 five-play. He got pitched out because his card kept falling out of the machine.

Tuna didn't do much in poker or the machines his last several years. Not like he had in years past. He met a girl from Mississippi and they had two kids. He wound up having to put her through rehab. And he got custody of the kids. He was quoted in one of the poker rags as saying he would be back when his kids were raised. But he was seen around Reno in some of the poker tournaments or on some machine plays.

Sometime about 2002 I was making a lap around the advantage slots in downtown Reno. I walked into the sportsbook side of Harrah's where the $1 Kool Kats were and ran into Cat Man John. Some people called him Johnny Katz. He got the names because he lived in a motor home with several cats. John was a retired poker dealer and the tightest advantage slot player on the universe. We talked for awhile and then John asks me:

"Why would Tuna Lund be playing a fifty-play at Baldini's?"
"You saw Tuna on a fifty-play at Baldini's? When?" I asked.
"Yesterday" John said.
"Well, John, I don't know exactly why, but I'm headed out there right now to find out."

It was fifty-play nickels with 9/6 Jacks, and the promotion was $1 per quad up to $50 per hand. The very skimpy card made it a 100.6% play. I let a friend of mine in on the play and for some reason Tuna never played the bank again. Maybe he didn't like hanging around us low-life mini pros.

And Ditto, Paladin. Tuna should have been the first into the VP Hall of Fame.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpbob_2000" <vpbob1@...> wrote:

A Tuna Lund story cribbed from the 2+2 forums:

Funny Tuna story from a friend of his:

The El Dorado in Reno ran a Keno promotion where any winning ticket that pays $5k would be tripled (paid 15k instead of 5).

Tuna gets his whole bankroll and goes down and buys 200 one spot cards. One spots are 4-1 to happen and pay 3-1 normally, but with the promotion are paying 9-1.

They shut the promotion down immediately, but had to honor his tickets.

Apparently he ran above expectation in his 200 game run as well.