vpFREE2 Forums

GVR $1,$2,$5 NSU Deuces MultiStrike (100.02% with the 0.1% cashback)

Back in the day when only a few people had internet access, a listing
on vpFREE was relatively harmless, maybe. But today everyone has
internet access, including even casino management. In fact, vpFREE is
probably a leading reason why good plays are so hard to find these
days. Maybe the vpFREE policy should be changed to reflect modern
times. Maybe new users should be warned that any play they announce
here is effectively announced to the entire world and if it has any
value to the player it will soon be withdrawn by the casino. Thus,
announcing loose plays here is not in the player's interest.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:

> Bob Dancer wrote:
> ... Now it's been posted on vpFREE, that's the further kiss of death.

To Bob and others who did not report these machines to the group:
According to the vpFREE group rules "Every vpFREE member, as a
requirement for continuing membership, is expected to ... report
DataBase inventory changes in casinos they visit." Perhaps it makes
sense to withhold information about games that are an obvious casino
mistake so as not to alert the casino, but these NSUD MultiStrikes at
GVR don't seem to be mistakes that the casino is not aware of. What is
the motivation for keeping them secret from fellow group members?

> Bob Dancer wrote:
> ... Now it's been posted on vpFREE, that's the further kiss of

death.

To Bob and others who did not report these machines to the group:
According to the vpFREE group rules "Every vpFREE member, as a
requirement for continuing membership, is expected to ... report
DataBase inventory changes in casinos they visit." Perhaps it makes
sense to withhold information about games that are an obvious casino
mistake so as not to alert the casino, but these NSUD MultiStrikes at
GVR don't seem to be mistakes that the casino is not aware of. What

is

the motivation for keeping them secret from fellow group members?

You have to read between Bob's lines here. According to Bob himself,
advantage players have been slamming this play ever since it appeared,
to the extent that His Bobness has been unable to get on the machines
as much as he would like. So now he "outs" the play on VpFree, and when
it gets yanked, he can say that it was BECAUSE it was posted on VpFree--
not because it's been getting slammed by greedy AP's.

Bob's agenda isn't the same as that of any of the others on VpFree, and
he doesn't operate under the same constraints: he apparently has a
massive bankroll, and for whatever reason (we may speculate), he is
immune from casino countermeasures. He only "shares" information that
is useless to anyone but him, or that has obsolesced. Certainly, he
feels that by these methods, he is protecting his livelihood. It's just
important to realize that because of that, his goals are often
diametrically opposite to those of the rest of VpFree.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

He only "shares" information that
is useless to anyone but him, or that has obsolesced. Certainly, he
feels that by these methods, he is protecting his livelihood. It's just
important to realize that because of that, his goals are often
diametrically opposite to those of the rest of VpFree.

Care to specify exactly what the goals of the rest of vpFREE are?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@> wrote:
> He only "shares" information that
> is useless to anyone but him, or that has obsolesced. Certainly, he
> feels that by these methods, he is protecting his livelihood. It's

just

> important to realize that because of that, his goals are often
> diametrically opposite to those of the rest of VpFree.

Care to specify exactly what the goals of the rest of vpFREE are?

Hmmm.

Let me think...

Way too obvious.....

So.......no.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
> <tralfamidorgooglycrackers@> wrote:
> > He only "shares" information that
> > is useless to anyone but him, or that has obsolesced. Certainly, he
> > feels that by these methods, he is protecting his livelihood. It's
just
> > important to realize that because of that, his goals are often
> > diametrically opposite to those of the rest of VpFree.
>
>
> Care to specify exactly what the goals of the rest of vpFREE are?
>
Hmmm.

Let me think...

Way too obvious.....

So.......no.

I'll have to guess then. The goal of the "rest of vpFREE" is to out
all loose plays?

I'll have to guess then. The goal of the "rest of vpFREE" is to out
all loose plays?

You're getting warm. The error in your supposition is the word "out";
if that were the goal, every post on VpFree would be immediately
forwarded to all casino executives, slot hosts, etc.

Keep trying.

tralfamidorgooglycrackers wrote:

> "I'll have to guess then. The goal of the "rest of vpFREE" is to out
> all loose plays?"

You're getting warm. The error in your supposition is the word "out";
if that were the goal, every post on VpFree would be immediately
forwarded to all casino executives, slot hosts, etc.

Keep trying.

You take "fishing" on these groups to the level of an art form, tral
... I have to admit, it's rather impressive at times.

- H.

I'll answer this one. There is a serious flaw in this line of thought.
That flaw assumes that only genuine, bona fide VPFREE members will
take advantage of the info, and not the many high level pros who lurk
here who would never think of sharing anything with the general
public. I'm not in business to have these people make money at my
potential expense because of something posted on a public fora which
anyone can read. Players like Bob and myself compete with other
professionals for a constantly dwindling amount of opportunities.

Second, there are MAYBE half a dozen members who are sufficiently
bankrolled to play the dollar denom, let alone the $2 or $5. I mean,
you're not going to play it, why should you care?

You want the truth, VPFree costs me probably $15-$20K/yr in
expectation because the gaming public is too stupid to realize the
casino is not in the business of making anyone money except the
casino. The naivete is annoying after a while.

If you think I'm a little too arrogant, look at it from my shoes. Your
hobby is my business, your theory is my practice, and I'd appreciate
it if you'd have more respect for that concept.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:

> Bob Dancer wrote:
> ... Now it's been posted on vpFREE, that's the further kiss of death.

To Bob and others who did not report these machines to the group:
According to the vpFREE group rules "Every vpFREE member, as a
requirement for continuing membership, is expected to ... report
DataBase inventory changes in casinos they visit." Perhaps it makes
sense to withhold information about games that are an obvious casino
mistake so as not to alert the casino, but these NSUD MultiStrikes at
GVR don't seem to be mistakes that the casino is not aware of. What is
the motivation for keeping them secret from fellow group members?

You want the truth, VPFree costs me probably $15-$20K/yr in
expectation because the gaming public is too stupid to realize the
casino is not in the business of making anyone money except the
casino. The naivete is annoying after a while.

If you think I'm a little too arrogant, look at it from my shoes. Your
hobby is my business, your theory is my practice, and I'd appreciate
it if you'd have more respect for that concept.

You are working from a flawed premise--that the knowledge that VP is a
beatable game (at least until Stations, Harrah's, et al finish with it)
has REDUCED your opportunities. The exact opposite is true. VP is
popular precisely because it can be beaten. The casinos knew this from
the get-go, but operators like the Maloofs realized that good games
were a "loss leader", in that positive EV VP machines still made money,
and that the presence of those machines drew in business from
slot/BJ/bingo/etc. players. In other words, the presence of good VP
plays never was any kind of secret to the casinos; the fact that they
now have changed their mindset to seek-and-destroy has come from their
unwillingness to give anyone a decent deal, NOT because the information
that we all foolishly share on VpFree has made the casinos collectively
wake up, startled, and say, "Gawrsh! Ah guesses them video porker
machine thangs kin be beat after all!"

To address your other point: I think I share this viewpoint with the
vast majority of VP players, here and elsewhere, when I say that I
could care less if every VP pro in the US dries up and blows away. VP
pros contribute nothing to the VP-playing community at large (except,
in some cases, for a fee), and in cases too numerous to list, have
caused the destruction of good VP plays. Our goal here is not to
provide you with an ongoing alternative to getting a REAL job; it is to
maximize our return from VP as a RECREATIONAL activity.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

To address your other point: I think I share this viewpoint with the
vast majority of VP players, here and elsewhere, when I say that I
could care less if every VP pro in the US dries up and blows away. VP
pros contribute nothing to the VP-playing community at large (except,
in some cases, for a fee), and in cases too numerous to list, have
caused the destruction of good VP plays. Our goal here is not to
provide you with an ongoing alternative to getting a REAL job; it is to
maximize our return from VP as a RECREATIONAL activity.

That kind of attitude certainly won't help you maximize your
recreational return from gambling.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@> wrote:
> To address your other point: I think I share this viewpoint with

the

> vast majority of VP players, here and elsewhere, when I say that

I

> could care less if every VP pro in the US dries up and blows

away. VP

> pros contribute nothing to the VP-playing community at large

(except,

> in some cases, for a fee), and in cases too numerous to list,

have

> caused the destruction of good VP plays. Our goal here is not to
> provide you with an ongoing alternative to getting a REAL job; it

is to

> maximize our return from VP as a RECREATIONAL activity.

That kind of attitude certainly won't help you maximize your
recreational return from gambling.

That one needs further explanation for this intellectual flea

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:

To address your other point: I think I share this viewpoint with the
vast majority of VP players, here and elsewhere, when I say that I
could care less if every VP pro in the US dries up and blows away. VP
pros contribute nothing to the VP-playing community at large (except,
in some cases, for a fee), and in cases too numerous to list, have
caused the destruction of good VP plays. Our goal here is not to
provide you with an ongoing alternative to getting a REAL job; it is to
maximize our return from VP as a RECREATIONAL activity.

Well, those that can, do, and those that can't whine about it, or
publish. Dude, not only is this a real job, it's a very lucrative one.
If you can't understand that, no problem, but don't hate on it
because you can't process it at a professional level. Again, your
hobby, my business. I don't torch plays as a general rule, but all
that means is that someone will if I don't, so I tend to be tight
lipped about it. It tends to maximize MY return from VP.

There's a great story from the midwest several years ago where the
casino put in some super pay All American, the 103% version. It was
likely a mistake. A Vegas pro got a phone call and headed to the game
and started camping out. A couple of locals got the genius idea to out
the pro and the play to Slot Ops. Guess what happened next? Everyone
got restricted by the casino, and the game got taken out.

The quoted passage here only proves my point. You, like most gamblers,
want it all your way. This much I understand, but to couch what you
say as a recreational activity doesn't even pass the smile test. You
want a recreational activity, try macrame. Part of the reason you
enjoy VP is the fact you're competing with the house. That much is
fine, but as much as I'm not the only VP player on the planet, but
neither are you (where's Tom Robertson when I need him?). Have a nice
life.

Well, those that can, do, and those that can't whine

No "whining" was involved. Don't be snotty, childish, and

insulting--at least not all at once. I merely expressed an opinion,
which I am goddamn well entitled to. FYII (one of the I's stands
for "ignorance"), I made my living--and a GOOD one--from VP for
seven+ years. I shared information constantly, both informally and on
the nascent internet forums. In turn, others shared information with
me. I was informed about good plays that I never would have known
about, and I'm sure I helped others find plays as well. The spirit of
cooperation helped everyone. Of course, there were also players who
skulked about the fringes, being very secretive, protective, and hush-
hush. That was their lookout, but that attitude hurt them in the long
run. They were loners, and had no friends or acquaintances they could
turn to. When they went broke, no one lent them money. A couple of
them died in crummy hotels when their buffet coupons ran out.

about it, or

publish. Dude, not only is this a real job, it's a very lucrative

one.

If you can't understand that, no problem, but don't hate on it
because you can't process it at a professional level. Again, your
hobby, my business. I don't torch plays as a general rule, but all
that means is that someone will if I don't, so I tend to be tight
lipped about it. It tends to maximize MY return from VP.

Here again, we hear the ME ME ME ME ME song. It's a business for

you. Fine. Whee. Knock yourself out. All I've said is that you, your
ilk, and your activities have very little relevance to or benefit for
the participants on this board. FWIW, I think your and other "pros"'
attitude is faulty and shortsighted, but you're entitled to it. Dude.

The quoted passage here only proves my point.

I guess. Somehow.

You, like most gamblers,

want it all your way.

Not many sentences of such brevity contain two faulty premises and

an outright untruth. What "my way" do I supposedly want? I favor a
free exchange of information, and am of the opinion that the
secretive attitude of many pros is counterproductive.

This much I understand, but to couch what you

say as a recreational activity doesn't even pass the smile test.

Whatever THAT is (smile).

You

want a recreational activity, try macrame.

You want a job, try McDonald's.

Part of the reason you

enjoy VP is the fact you're competing with the house. That much is
fine, but as much as I'm not the only VP player on the planet, but
neither are you (where's Tom Robertson when I need him?).

That last wasn't even a sentence, but I'll address the more

coherent thought that preceded it: Actually, I don't give a rat's ass
about "competing with the house". For me, it's not about ego
gratification; it's about earning money. An alternate expression of
that is being able to have fun at low cost. If I can gamble, break
even, and get free food and rooms, I'm good with that. I don't feel
like I'm "competing" with the casino for those amenities.

A job? You think I'm gonna go out and apply for a job? I've never
written a resume in my life. But there can't be too much to it. So
how about I take a stab at it:

MICKEY CRIMM
KISS MY ASS

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers" wrote
Our goal here is not to
> provide you with an ongoing alternative to getting a REAL job;

That's my resume. If you don't like it, kiss my ass.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

MICKEY CRIMM
KISS MY ASS

I decided to update my resume:

MICKEY CRIMM
KISS MY ASS
UPRISINGS QUELLED
VIRGINS CONVERTED
REVOLUTIONS STARTED

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> MICKEY CRIMM
> KISS MY ASS
>
That's my resume. If you don't like it, kiss my ass.

"tralfamidorgooglycrackers" wrote:

Bob's agenda isn't the same as that of any of the others on VpFree, and
he doesn't operate under the same constraints: he apparently has a
massive bankroll, and for whatever reason (we may speculate), he is
immune from casino countermeasures. He only "shares" information that
is useless to anyone but him, or that has obsolesced. Certainly, he
feels that by these methods, he is protecting his livelihood. It's just
important to realize that because of that, his goals are often
diametrically opposite to those of the rest of VpFree.

What are the goals of the rest of VPFree then? To destroy EV? Why
would anyone share something that is useful to them without getting
something of equal value in return?

"tralfamidorgooglycrackers" wrote:

To address your other point: I think I share this viewpoint with the
vast majority of VP players, here and elsewhere, when I say that I
could care less if every VP pro in the US dries up and blows away. VP
pros contribute nothing to the VP-playing community at large (except,
in some cases, for a fee), and in cases too numerous to list, have
caused the destruction of good VP plays. Our goal here is not to
provide you with an ongoing alternative to getting a REAL job; it is to
maximize our return from VP as a RECREATIONAL activity.

Real job? I've been a professional gambler for several years and make
over $500k a year. I probably work harder than you do at your hourly
wage job. I find it offensive that you don't consider what I do a
real job. Just because you can't do it yourself doesn't mean that
it's not a career. I wish I could play in the NFL but I don't have
the skills. However I would never tell a football pro I meet at the
clubs that they don't have a real job.

Now there's a concept...talking VP at Drai's or Pure or Empire
Ballroom (et al)...ROFL!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "xxxent" <xxxent@...> wrote:

Real job? I've been a professional gambler for several years and make
over $500k a year. I probably work harder than you do at your hourly
wage job. I find it offensive that you don't consider what I do a
real job. Just because you can't do it yourself doesn't mean that
it's not a career. I wish I could play in the NFL but I don't have
the skills. However I would never tell a football pro I meet at the
clubs that they don't have a real job.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

> Real job? I've been a professional gambler for several years and

make

> over $500k a year. I probably work harder than you do at your

hourly

> wage job. I find it offensive that you don't consider what I do a
> real job. Just because you can't do it yourself doesn't mean that
> it's not a career. I wish I could play in the NFL but I don't have
> the skills. However I would never tell a football pro I meet at the
> clubs that they don't have a real job.

Now there's a concept...talking VP at Drai's or Pure or Empire
Ballroom (et al)...ROFL!

Pure Nightclub got raided by the IRS last week. The story is lots of
unreported money changing hands. I think it was Norm Clarke in the RJ
who broke the story. He says it's just the tip of the iceberg.

The doormen were reported to make $400,000 to $500,000 per year but
were having to pay off to keep the job.

Last October my friend Al treated me to a 4 day comp at Caesars and I
got to see this operation in action. We would have to leave the poker
room to do the thing that is not mentioned of vpFREE anymore. So we
stood out by the sports book and at night the lines formed for Pure.

One line was maybe 200 of the best looking women on the planet; all
dolled up too. The doormen would occasionally come down the line
picking out the women who could get in. It didn't seem to matter what
position in line they were in, rather it seemed to be based on how good
looking they were. I almost felt sorry for some of these women. You
would see them out there in line at 8:30 or 9:00 PM and they would
still be out there at midnight. Eventually, when it got to late, they
would all straggle off.

In the other line was all the hardtails. Al informed me that these
guys were being shaken down to get in. It's supposed to be a $40 entry
fee, but lots of these guys were paying off the doormen for as much
$200. Then they had to pay the entry fee and might get stung for some
more money if the place was real busy. And that's the cheap end of
the deal. A bottle and a table is about $500.

Norm Clarke reported that lots of kids would ring up $5000 to $6000 on
their credit cards in one night.

How stupid is that? And I thought I had thrown some expensive drunks.
Not even close.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "xxxent" <xxxent@> wrote: