There are now two $1 and one $1,$2,$5 MultiStrike slant tops that
include NSU Deuces (99.92% with difficult perfect play due to strategy
differences for each of the 4 levels) in the GVR high limit room. The
Station's 0.1% cash back brings the return to virtually even although
high variance produces a big risk of very large losing streaks.
GVR $1,$2,$5 NSU Deuces MultiStrike (100.02% with the 0.1% cashback)
Enjoy the ride!
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:
There are now two $1 and one $1,$2,$5 MultiStrike slant tops that
include NSU Deuces (99.92% with difficult perfect play due to strategy
differences for each of the 4 levels) in the GVR high limit room. The
Station's 0.1% cash back brings the return to virtually even although
high variance produces a big risk of very large losing streaks.
vidi0t wrote:
> There are now two $1 and one $1,$2,$5 MultiStrike slant tops that
> include NSU Deuces (99.92% with difficult perfect play due to
> strategy differences for each of the 4 levels) in the GVR high limit
> room. The Station's 0.1% cash back brings the return to virtually
> even although high variance produces a big risk of very large losing
> streaks.
paladingamingllc wrote:
Enjoy the ride!
I ballpark that ride, based on the numbers, as being about 20% rougher
than if the total wager were placed on a single line game (a little
smoother over the longer run).
For a $1 MS game, that means the ride should feel somewhat comparable
to single line $5 play.
- H.
There are now two $1 and one $1,$2,$5 MultiStrike slant tops that
include NSU Deuces (99.92% with difficult perfect play due to
strategy
differences for each of the 4 levels) in the GVR high limit room.
The
Station's 0.1% cash back brings the return to virtually even although
high variance produces a big risk of very large losing streaks.
Sounds like a perfect machine for Bob Dancer, he loves small edges.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:
Thanks for mentioning this. I've been out of LV about a month, and it
seems like a lot of machine changes/shifting has taken place at GVR
during that time, and cash back too.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:
There are now two $1 and one $1,$2,$5 MultiStrike slant tops that
include NSU Deuces (99.92% with difficult perfect play due to strategy
differences for each of the 4 levels) in the GVR high limit room. The
Station's 0.1% cash back brings the return to virtually even although
high variance produces a big risk of very large losing streaks.
Yup, reportably both he and Jean Scott have been among those seen
playing them since they were put in a week or two ago.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "VpKing77" <vpking77@...> wrote:
Sounds like a perfect machine for Bob Dancer, he loves small edges.
Bob Dancer's Risk of Ruin calculator in his Video Poker For Winners
program shows that there is a 50% chance of a $898180.71 losing streak
playing all 4 hands at $5 per hand figuring in 0.1% cashback. On 7X
point days the 50% bankroll requirement drops to $26493. 5X - $40462,
3X - $79892 (All assuming the virtually impossible perfect play.)
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:
···
Enjoy the ride!
Then, that play is doomed. (Not that anyone with less than a
$250,000 bankroll should even touch it.)
I actually can't imagine why ANYONE would play this game, with its
insane variance/BR requirements, when the same or better net result
could be obtained playing, say, $1 DB. An EV of 100.02 means that
TWO WHOLE DOLLARS is earned for every $10,000 slammed through the
machine (inclusive of cashback). That same 10K through a $1 10/7 DB
machine would earn you $20; through .25 FPDW would earn you $70.
Granted, it wouldn't take as long to put that 10K through the MS,
but still....
Best case scenario: $5 MS NSUD---$100/hand
Earnings/hand: $0.02 (with perfect play)
I defy anyone to exceed 600 hands/hr without error, therefore:
$12/hr!!! With the very real possibility of losing tens of
thousands!!!
How can this possibly be worth ANYONE's while???
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:
Yup, reportably both he and Jean Scott have been among those seen
playing them since they were put in a week or two ago.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:
I actually can't imagine why ANYONE would play this game, with its
insane variance/BR requirements, when the same or better net result
could be obtained playing, say, $1 DB. An EV of 100.02 means that
TWO WHOLE DOLLARS is earned for every $10,000 slammed through the
machine (inclusive of cashback). That same 10K through a $1 10/7 DB
machine would earn you $20; through .25 FPDW would earn you $70.
Granted, it wouldn't take as long to put that 10K through the MS,
but still....Best case scenario: $5 MS NSUD---$100/hand
Earnings/hand: $0.02 (with perfect play)
I defy anyone to exceed 600 hands/hr without error, therefore:$12/hr!!! With the very real possibility of losing tens of
thousands!!!How can this possibly be worth ANYONE's while???
Multipliers and promotions.
Tral wrote: $12/hr!!! With the very real possibility of losing tens of
thousands!!!
How can this possibly be worth ANYONE's while???
Would the fact that you are assuming 1x points and I've only played it
under 7x point conditions change your mind any about anybody's "while"?
At $50,000 coin-in per hour, it only took 30 hours to become Chairman on
both Shirley's a my card during 7x points --- plus we each have enough
points that we'll probably cash $1,500 a piece in the point challenge.
Plus I played some more because it was still a $300 per hour game. On
$1,800,000 total play, our expected win was $11,000, plus $3,000 from
the point challenge, plus three months of chairman mailers. Fortunately
we were able to collect considerably more than that. Someone said this
was a thin edge. Clearly they are more adept at criticizing than they
are at figuring out the mathematics of the play. Playing a 100.62% game
is a MUCH HIGHER edge than most $100 per hand games out there. Plus
perfect play is considerable easier on this game than on regular NSU.
In point of fact, the $5 machine has been virtually locked up 24/7 for a
week (not by me). A few people have been switching back and forth and
nobody else can get on it. Now it's been posted on vpFREE, that's the
further kiss of death. I predict one more week before the pay schedule
is downgraded, with the smarter bet being the under rather than the
over.
Bob Dancer
For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com
Would the fact that you are assuming 1x points and I've only played it
under 7x point conditions change your mind any about
anybody's "while"?
No, as a matter of fact, it wouldn't, because it's pretty naive to
think that Stations would tolerate very much play under these
conditions (ONLY 7X point days). The play's death will be brought about
by APs, not VpFree. Its mention on VpFree is of academic interest only
to all but a tiny, tiny fraction of those who read these posts.
In fact, Bob, you seem to be able to play under conditions and with
edges that would get the vast majority of us civilians tossed out in
short order. That couldn't be because the casinos think that you don't
really have an edge--they are smarter than that. Therefore, what do
they think when Big Bob sits down at one of their machines and starts
stuffing in Benjamins? I'll hazard a guess: it ain't "Oh, goody!" So
since the casinos have been throwing us mere mortals out for sins such
as playing dollar 10/7 only on 3X point days, or trolling for cashback
with a positive EV of $15/hr, one has to ask the question: why do they
tolerate YOU?
The rest of us rank-and-file, even if we had the bankroll (2 million
clams or so) to make this play viable, would have to assume (and
rightly so) that the play would be aborted in short order, because
massive play such as this attracts attention, and very soon some casino
watchdog will start barking at you, then pee on your leg (OK, metaphor
carried too far). So: this play is only worthwhile if you assume you
will be able to keep it up for a reasonable amount of time (and that
Stations won't do something like make you ineligible for multiple point
promos). So I'm curious: what gives YOU that assurance?
I've played it a little bit but not recently...I guess it wouldn't be
too much to ask for a 5-play version lol...
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vidi0t" <vid.geo@...> wrote:
Bob Dancer's Risk of Ruin calculator in his Video Poker For Winners
program shows that there is a 50% chance of a $898180.71 losing streak
playing all 4 hands at $5 per hand figuring in 0.1% cashback. On 7X
point days the 50% bankroll requirement drops to $26493. 5X - $40462,
3X - $79892 (All assuming the virtually impossible perfect play.)
Also, and I keep forgetting to mention this, you're probably looking
at 2:1 on points and a low theo on the game. It's not going to be that
great a deal. You're going to have quite a few days where you lose 20%
to the drop.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@> wrote:> I actually can't imagine why ANYONE would play this game, with its
> insane variance/BR requirements, when the same or better net result
> could be obtained playing, say, $1 DB. An EV of 100.02 means that
> TWO WHOLE DOLLARS is earned for every $10,000 slammed through the
> machine (inclusive of cashback). That same 10K through a $1 10/7 DB
> machine would earn you $20; through .25 FPDW would earn you $70.
> Granted, it wouldn't take as long to put that 10K through the MS,
> but still....
>
> Best case scenario: $5 MS NSUD---$100/hand
> Earnings/hand: $0.02 (with perfect play)
> I defy anyone to exceed 600 hands/hr without error, therefore:
>
> $12/hr!!! With the very real possibility of losing tens of
> thousands!!!
>
> How can this possibly be worth ANYONE's while???
>Multipliers and promotions.
Tral wrote: $12/hr!!! With the very real possibility of losing tens of
thousands!!!How can this possibly be worth ANYONE's while???
Would the fact that you are assuming 1x points and I've only played it
under 7x point conditions change your mind any about anybody's "while"?
At $50,000 coin-in per hour, it only took 30 hours to become Chairman on
both Shirley's a my card during 7x points --- plus we each have enough
points that we'll probably cash $1,500 a piece in the point challenge.
Plus I played some more because it was still a $300 per hour game. On
$1,800,000 total play, our expected win was $11,000, plus $3,000 from
the point challenge, plus three months of chairman mailers. Fortunately
we were able to collect considerably more than that. Someone said this
was a thin edge. Clearly they are more adept at criticizing than they
are at figuring out the mathematics of the play. Playing a 100.62% game
is a MUCH HIGHER edge than most $100 per hand games out there. Plus
perfect play is considerable easier on this game than on regular NSU.
Bob is eminently correct on all accounts.
In point of fact, the $5 machine has been virtually locked up 24/7 for a
week (not by me). A few people have been switching back and forth and
nobody else can get on it. Now it's been posted on vpFREE, that's the
further kiss of death. I predict one more week before the pay schedule
is downgraded, with the smarter bet being the under rather than the
over.
Ummm, not so sure here...very easy to burn though a couple of hundred
thou at this level. We'll see how much play they get after the 29th,
the last day of the points challenge. It is a fun game to play,
though. Sounds like full points, they'd probably make it half points
first.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:
(Concerning NSUD Multi-strike)
Plus
perfect play is considerable easier on this game than on regular NSU.
No way this is true.
Perfect play includes all the complexity of NSUD (which is played on
the top line, as well as when you have a free ride) plus the
strategies for the lower three lines.
Adding complexity doesn't make it easier.
···
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Bob Dancer <bdancer@compdance.com> wrote:
The other three lines are fairly straightforward, if I remember
correctly.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "King Fish" <vpkingfish@...> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Bob Dancer <bdancer@...> wrote:
(Concerning NSUD Multi-strike)
> Plus
> perfect play is considerable easier on this game than on regular NSU.No way this is true.
Perfect play includes all the complexity of NSUD (which is played on
the top line, as well as when you have a free ride) plus the
strategies for the lower three lines.Adding complexity doesn't make it easier.
Bob Dancer wrote:
perfect play is considerable easier on this game than on regular NSU.
Highly inaccurate. Highly. (Hint: the strategy needed for NSUD multistrike
is a superset of the NSUD strategy, so it's impossible that it's
"considerably easier.")
Frankly, I think this a great game for the casinos. Hubristic "pros" will
play it with razor-thin edges, not realizing they don't come close to
perfect play. It's so easy to forget which line strategy you're using, or
that a "free ride" came along while the cocktail waitress took your drink
order. The only thing the casinos don't like about this game is the
variance. They don't like fading an (almost impossible to get) top jackpot
of $300k.
If Wynn hadn't had sick bad luck on this game it would have been there for
years.
Cogno
Cogno wrote: Bob Dancer wrote: perfect play is considerably easier on
this game than on regular NSU.
Highly inaccurate. Highly. (Hint: the strategy needed for NSUD
multistrike is a superset of the NSUD strategy, so it's impossible that
it's "considerably easier.")
Not true. Regular NSU strategy is used for the 8x level of Multi Strike
and also for the Free Rides. This accounts for perhaps 20%-25% of the
hands. The other 75%-80% of the hands that you play use a simpler
strategy. Cogno's hint is misleading and I believe my net conclusion
that perfect play is considerably easier on this game is accurate.
If you're talking about playing basic strategy (i.e. penalty free),
there is added complexity to this game as you need to keep four
different strategies straight. But I was talking about perfect strategy
--- including penalty cards. The percentage of hands an expert would be
uncertain about is LOWER in Multi Strike. If you're a non-expert, you're
likely not concerned about perfect play.
Bob Dancer
For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tralfamidorgooglycrackers"
<tralfamidorgooglycrackers@...> wrote:
So
since the casinos have been throwing us mere mortals out for sins such
as playing dollar 10/7 only on 3X point days, or trolling for cashback
with a positive EV of $15/hr, one has to ask the question: why do they
tolerate YOU?
He's a shill? Well, probably not exactly that word, since I think
that's technically illegal in Nevada, so -- he's a consultant? He's
paid to bring in fresh meat? I always thought he should write more in
his weekly column about how not to get backed off while beating the
casino, but then again, if you read his book "Million Dollar Video
Poker", it's mostly about taking steps to avoid getting backed off and
very little about any nuances of perfect play, in fact he himself
admits multiple times that he was unsure about the exact strategy but
played anyway, figuring he was close enough. There's always another
possibility, he's won so much from the casinos, they must be ploting,
by hook or by crook, someway to get it back, so they keep putting out
little probes, thinking that one day he'll slip up, be in over his
head, and hit an unlucky streak that lets the casinos get even?
Bob Dancer wrote:
... Now it's been posted on vpFREE, that's the further kiss of death.
To Bob and others who did not report these machines to the group:
According to the vpFREE group rules "Every vpFREE member, as a
requirement for continuing membership, is expected to ... report
DataBase inventory changes in casinos they visit." Perhaps it makes
sense to withhold information about games that are an obvious casino
mistake so as not to alert the casino, but these NSUD MultiStrikes at
GVR don't seem to be mistakes that the casino is not aware of. What is
the motivation for keeping them secret from fellow group members?