vpFREE2 Forums

Guaranteed video poker is at station casinos

#1

I looked at these Guaranteed Play machines at Palace
Station today where they have fifty of them between
the slot club and the high-limit room.

They are only available in 25c and $1 with different
deals offered on each game. For example, buy 400 hands
of $1 8/5 BP for $200 or buy 500 hands of $1 8/6 JoB
for $200. The 25c paytables were lower, such as 7/5
BP.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2"
<sheiky2@...> wrote:

I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
.Some info below:
--Quarter players can buy 75 hands for $20 or 200
hands for $40
--Dollar players can by buy 100 hands for $100 or
275 hands for $200
(some games offer extra hands for the same money
mentioned above
( Bonus poker, Dueces wild, Jacks or better)
----The machine shows the hands decreasing(upper
left) and the
credits are shown on the lower right, fluctuating
between plus+ or Minus-

---When you are finished playing you collect any
winnings or walk away
(if you are minus credits---you don't owe anything)
---Paytables are Similar to what Stations offer
today(no Optimums)
---If you hit a good hand ( eg 4 aces) and want to
cash out you can,
but you forfet all remaing games you pre-paid for.
This will also
happen if you want to move to another machine during
your guaranteed play
---You can hit the Jumbo Jackpot, and boarding pass
points are based
on what amount you bought in for.
--Each machine had a choice to play the "guarenteed
play" or the traditional way.

---I was told all Station casinos will have
them---the roll out started today

____________________________________________________________________________________
Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222

#2

I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask it
here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX COIN
hands?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ms. vpFae" <ms_vpfree_3@...> wrote:

I looked at these Guaranteed Play machines at Palace
Station today where they have fifty of them between
the slot club and the high-limit room.

They are only available in 25c and $1 with different
deals offered on each game. For example, buy 400 hands
of $1 8/5 BP for $200 or buy 500 hands of $1 8/6 JoB
for $200. The 25c paytables were lower, such as 7/5
BP.

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2"
> <sheiky2@> wrote:
>
> I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
> .Some info below:
> --Quarter players can buy 75 hands for $20 or 200
> hands for $40
> --Dollar players can by buy 100 hands for $100 or
> 275 hands for $200
> (some games offer extra hands for the same money
> mentioned above
> ( Bonus poker, Dueces wild, Jacks or better)
> ----The machine shows the hands decreasing(upper
> left) and the
> credits are shown on the lower right, fluctuating
> between plus+ or Minus-
>
> ---When you are finished playing you collect any
> winnings or walk away
> (if you are minus credits---you don't owe anything)
> ---Paytables are Similar to what Stations offer
> today(no Optimums)
> ---If you hit a good hand ( eg 4 aces) and want to
> cash out you can,
> but you forfet all remaing games you pre-paid for.
> This will also
> happen if you want to move to another machine during
> your guaranteed play
> ---You can hit the Jumbo Jackpot, and boarding pass
> points are based
> on what amount you bought in for.
> --Each machine had a choice to play the "guarenteed
> play" or the traditional way.
>
> ---I was told all Station casinos will have
> them---the roll out started today

_____________________________________________________________________
_______________

Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222

#3

I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask it
here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX COIN
hands?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@...> wrote:

Yes, you MUST play max coin so you're getting basically $2,000 coin-in
for $200. You are buying "poker hands" and you go negative if you
don't get a paying hand. The win meter adds your wins but subtracts 5
units if you don't get the paying hand. Let's say your first four
hands do not produce a winning combination. Then you're -$20. If the
next hand is a high pair, then you're -$15. If the next hand is a
straight, then you are +$5. OR, you might hit a quad right away and
then have it go "poof" having $5 subtracted from your win meter each
time you didn't get a paying hand. You can cash out at anytime but
you'd lose any hands that you'd not played. You can't switch games
either without losing the hands not played.
GVR's machines did have 8/5 bonus at the quarter level.

#4

Yes, you can only play Max coins with the "Guaranteed video poker)

···

I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask it
here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX COIN
hands?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ms. vpFae" <ms_vpfree_3@> wrote:
>
> I looked at these Guaranteed Play machines at Palace
> Station today where they have fifty of them between
> the slot club and the high-limit room.
>
> They are only available in 25c and $1 with different
> deals offered on each game. For example, buy 400 hands
> of $1 8/5 BP for $200 or buy 500 hands of $1 8/6 JoB
> for $200. The 25c paytables were lower, such as 7/5
> BP.
>
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2"
> > <sheiky2@> wrote:
> >
> > I saw it at the Fiesta Rancho--by the bar near Keno.
> > .Some info below:
> > --Quarter players can buy 75 hands for $20 or 200
> > hands for $40
> > --Dollar players can by buy 100 hands for $100 or
> > 275 hands for $200
> > (some games offer extra hands for the same money
> > mentioned above
> > ( Bonus poker, Dueces wild, Jacks or better)
> > ----The machine shows the hands decreasing(upper
> > left) and the
> > credits are shown on the lower right, fluctuating
> > between plus+ or Minus-
> >
> > ---When you are finished playing you collect any
> > winnings or walk away
> > (if you are minus credits---you don't owe anything)
> > ---Paytables are Similar to what Stations offer
> > today(no Optimums)
> > ---If you hit a good hand ( eg 4 aces) and want to
> > cash out you can,
> > but you forfet all remaing games you pre-paid for.
> > This will also
> > happen if you want to move to another machine during
> > your guaranteed play
> > ---You can hit the Jumbo Jackpot, and boarding pass
> > points are based
> > on what amount you bought in for.
> > --Each machine had a choice to play the "guarenteed
> > play" or the traditional way.
> >
> > ---I was told all Station casinos will have
> > them---the roll out started today
>
>
>
>
>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________
> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's
> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
>

#5

If my understanding of these posts is correct, my first reaction is
this sounds like a jack. For $200, you start with 0 credits but the
opportunity to play 275 hands ($1375 worth). Seems to me the only
time it's worth it is when you are losing at a rate greater than
14.5% for the 275 hands. While this is a frequent occurance, I
wonder that it makes up for the premium. It does seem intuitive to
me that you'd want to play the highest variance game possible, not
8/6 JOB or 8/5 Bonus.

>
> I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask

it

> here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX

COIN

> hands?

Yes, you MUST play max coin so you're getting basically $2,000

coin-in

for $200. You are buying "poker hands" and you go negative if you
don't get a paying hand. The win meter adds your wins but

subtracts 5

units if you don't get the paying hand. Let's say your first four
hands do not produce a winning combination. Then you're -$20. If

the

next hand is a high pair, then you're -$15. If the next hand is a
straight, then you are +$5. OR, you might hit a quad right away and
then have it go "poof" having $5 subtracted from your win meter

each

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "staninnv" <arnot@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@> wrote:
time you didn't get a paying hand. You can cash out at anytime but
you'd lose any hands that you'd not played. You can't switch games
either without losing the hands not played.
GVR's machines did have 8/5 bonus at the quarter level.

#6

Thanks for the clarification. It would seem that if a player wanted
to play 400 hands, this is a great deal (ignoring the paytable in
this example). Subsequent posts talk about only playing 10/7 DB or
FPDW, but what they are not available? Or let's say they have been
removed?

I am going to ask about these machines at Red Rock. It isn't going
to change my lifestyle to try the game once. I am a 25c player. When
I insert $20, only 16 max coin hands are guaranteed to be
dealt. And regardless of the game (JOB, Bonus, DB, DDB), I have
personally witnessed not winning one hand in each game mentioned
before that $20 is gone.

Again, unless I am missing something, I can get 75 max coin hands
for the same $20 (again, assuming the exact same paytable).
  

Yes, you MUST play max coin so you're getting basically $2,000

coin-in

for $200. You are buying "poker hands" and you go negative if you
don't get a paying hand. The win meter adds your wins but

subtracts 5

units if you don't get the paying hand. Let's say your first four
hands do not produce a winning combination. Then you're -$20. If

the

next hand is a high pair, then you're -$15. If the next hand is a
straight, then you are +$5. OR, you might hit a quad right away and
then have it go "poof" having $5 subtracted from your win meter

each

time you didn't get a paying hand. You can cash out at anytime but
you'd lose any hands that you'd not played. You can't switch games
either without losing the hands not played.
GVR's machines did have 8/5 bonus at the quarter level.

>
> I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask

it

> here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX

COIN

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "staninnv" <arnot@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@> wrote:
> hands?

#7

Ahhhh! Wait till you guys sit down and figure out the optimal strategy for
cashing out. If you put in $20, and earn $20.50 (hypothetically) on the
first hand, should you cash out? What if you earn $100 in the first hand?
The answer to these questions are yes and no, respectively.

I know the strategy in general terms but I can't tell you :slight_smile:

···

On 8/14/07, Charles <fromthevault@yahoo.com> wrote:

  Thanks for the clarification. It would seem that if a player wanted
to play 400 hands, this is a great deal (ignoring the paytable in
this example). Subsequent posts talk about only playing 10/7 DB or
FPDW, but what they are not available? Or let's say they have been
removed?

I am going to ask about these machines at Red Rock. It isn't going
to change my lifestyle to try the game once. I am a 25c player. When
I insert $20, only 16 max coin hands are guaranteed to be
dealt. And regardless of the game (JOB, Bonus, DB, DDB), I have
personally witnessed not winning one hand in each game mentioned
before that $20 is gone.

Again, unless I am missing something, I can get 75 max coin hands
for the same $20 (again, assuming the exact same paytable).

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "staninnv"
<arnot@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, you MUST play max coin so you're getting basically $2,000
coin-in
> for $200. You are buying "poker hands" and you go negative if you
> don't get a paying hand. The win meter adds your wins but
subtracts 5
> units if you don't get the paying hand. Let's say your first four
> hands do not produce a winning combination. Then you're -$20. If
the
> next hand is a high pair, then you're -$15. If the next hand is a
> straight, then you are +$5. OR, you might hit a quad right away and
> then have it go "poof" having $5 subtracted from your win meter
each
> time you didn't get a paying hand. You can cash out at anytime but
> you'd lose any hands that you'd not played. You can't switch games
> either without losing the hands not played.
> GVR's machines did have 8/5 bonus at the quarter level.

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "Charles"
<fromthevault@> wrote:
> >
> > I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask
it
> > here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX
COIN
> > hands?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

I was at Texas Station tonight and decided to give one of these games a try.
I purchased 200 hands of .25 Bonus Poker for $40. The machine added 100
bonus hands to the normal 200, so I got 300 total hands.

A few observations:

1) Paytables stink. Bonus poker at the .25 was 5/7.

2) Choose your machine wisely. Once you start your Guaranteed Session, you
can't get out until you're ready to cash out. So, if you pick a machine
with an annoying glare, or next to someone you don't like, or with a bad
sound system, or whatever, then you'd better get used to it for however many
hands you purchased!!

3) I played three $40 batches of 300 hands.

The first $40 set, I got a quad early on, which put me up on my $40 coin-in.
I ended up playing that into the negative until I hit another quad with
about 100 hands left. Pretty good luck kept me on the up side, and I cashed
out with $70.

The second and third $40 sets, a string of bad luck and an absence of quads
left me 250+ and 300+ credits in the negative. I got nothing back, but I
only lost $40 each time, rather than the $63+ and $75+ shown on the credit
metre.

4) No math involved in this observation, but my experience tells me that if
you're lucky, then you'll walk away with a little money. Otherwise, the
sucky pay tables make these a loosing game, and the extra hands only mean
that you might loose a little less, or take a little longer to do it.

After taking my $50 loss, I took the remaining $50 I had left over from my
$100 bill to the Optimums and cashed out with $500 a couple hours later.
:slight_smile:

'Nuff said, right?

Cheers,

SoundMessage

···

From: Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:16:29 -0700
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Guaranteed video poker is at station casinos

Ahhhh! Wait till you guys sit down and figure out the optimal strategy for
cashing out. If you put in $20, and earn $20.50 (hypothetically) on the
first hand, should you cash out? What if you earn $100 in the first hand?
The answer to these questions are yes and no, respectively.

I know the strategy in general terms but I can't tell you :slight_smile:

On 8/14/07, Charles <fromthevault@yahoo.com <mailto:fromthevault%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

  Thanks for the clarification. It would seem that if a player wanted
to play 400 hands, this is a great deal (ignoring the paytable in
this example). Subsequent posts talk about only playing 10/7 DB or
FPDW, but what they are not available? Or let's say they have been
removed?

I am going to ask about these machines at Red Rock. It isn't going
to change my lifestyle to try the game once. I am a 25c player. When
I insert $20, only 16 max coin hands are guaranteed to be
dealt. And regardless of the game (JOB, Bonus, DB, DDB), I have
personally witnessed not winning one hand in each game mentioned
before that $20 is gone.

Again, unless I am missing something, I can get 75 max coin hands
for the same $20 (again, assuming the exact same paytable).

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>

<vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "staninnv"

<arnot@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, you MUST play max coin so you're getting basically $2,000
coin-in
> for $200. You are buying "poker hands" and you go negative if you
> don't get a paying hand. The win meter adds your wins but
subtracts 5
> units if you don't get the paying hand. Let's say your first four
> hands do not produce a winning combination. Then you're -$20. If
the
> next hand is a high pair, then you're -$15. If the next hand is a
> straight, then you are +$5. OR, you might hit a quad right away and
> then have it go "poof" having $5 subtracted from your win meter
each
> time you didn't get a paying hand. You can cash out at anytime but
> you'd lose any hands that you'd not played. You can't switch games
> either without losing the hands not played.
> GVR's machines did have 8/5 bonus at the quarter level.

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>

<vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "Charles"

<fromthevault@> wrote:
> >
> > I was going to try and edit my own message, but I will just ask
it
> > here. If I buy "400 hands of $1 BP for $200", am I buying MAX
COIN
> > hands?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

Nathan O. Roemer wrote:

I was at Texas Station tonight and decided to give one of these games
a try. I purchased 200 hands of .25 Bonus Poker for $40. The machine
added 100 bonus hands to the normal 200, so I got 300 total hands.

You go on to note that the BP paytable was 7/5.

In absence of the "Guarantee" that's a fairly poor paytable. However,
with a play guarantee that limits your downside, that may not be such
a bad deal. However, if you find yourself winning, the guarantee has
less and less value and there is a point at which it's prudent to cash
out early (say, something like $100 -- it's difficult to say exactly
where without a close scrutiny of the game).

I know this type of approach isn't going to appeal to many, but it's
key to optimizing play. Had IGT introduced the game 5 years ago I'd
suggest that it might be possibly played at a player's advantage with
the right strategy. However, I have little doubt about IGT math savvy
these days and I expect they did extensive simulation analysis to pin
down hand buy-ins and paytables that yield returns to the casino that
approximate existing games on the floor.

I see the game as a novelty introduction that will have appeal to the
player who enjoys a volative game like DDB, but doesn't particularly
care for it on those occasions when they lose their buy-in at a 40% or
60% rate. This ensures that the max loss rate they suffer is 16%.

As a side note, you received an added 100 hand bonus because you opted
for a lesser volatile game. Bonus Poker (and Jacks or Better as well
as Deuces Wild) returns 2 bets on the 2nd lowest hand, making the game
less vulnerable to a session with an excessive loss -- allowing them
to give you more guaranteed hands.

- Harry

#10

Why isn't the best strategy to cash out whenever the initial bet has been exceeded? That
would allow you to bank your winnings and start the game over with a fresh set of hands.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

In absence of the "Guarantee" that's a fairly poor paytable. However,
with a play guarantee that limits your downside, that may not be such
a bad deal. However, if you find yourself winning, the guarantee has
less and less value and there is a point at which it's prudent to cash
out early (say, something like $100 -- it's difficult to say exactly
where without a close scrutiny of the game).

#11

Why isn't the best strategy to cash out whenever the initial bet has

been exceeded? That

would allow you to bank your winnings and start the game over with a

fresh set of hands.

I am kind of wondering the same thing.

For $40 normally you get 160 credits or 32 hands, if you get to say
+320 credits any where up to the 300 hands and cash out. You can then
basically play another 300 hands for $40 and hope you get lucky, plus
you keep the original $40.

I know I am missing something, but what?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "danbvbv" <dbaise@...> wrote:

#12

>
> Why isn't the best strategy to cash out whenever the initial bet has
been exceeded? That
> would allow you to bank your winnings and start the game over with a
fresh set of hands.

I am kind of wondering the same thing.

For $40 normally you get 160 credits or 32 hands, if you get to say
+320 credits any where up to the 300 hands and cash out. You can then
basically play another 300 hands for $40 and hope you get lucky, plus
you keep the original $40.

I know I am missing something, but what?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <jacob36@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "danbvbv" <dbaise@> wrote:

=============================
You guys are assuming that you get ahead. I knew better but played a
few $20 bills yesterday. I felt like I was playing a slot machine. If
you don't hit a Royal or premium quad quickly, you're going to be in
the negative territory. My best session was MINUS 405 units starting
with 275 hands.
Stations has really gone all out on this thing. I didn't see too many
people playing the guaranteed game on the machines. They were playing
single line and keno which is also available. It doesn't take a rocket
scientist to figure negative units when done is bad, bad, bad.

#13

>
> Why isn't the best strategy to cash out whenever the initial bet

has

been exceeded? That
> would allow you to bank your winnings and start the game over

with a

fresh set of hands.
>

I am kind of wondering the same thing.

For $40 normally you get 160 credits or 32 hands, if you get to say
+320 credits any where up to the 300 hands and cash out. You can

then

basically play another 300 hands for $40 and hope you get lucky,

plus

you keep the original $40.

I know I am missing something, but what?

We discussed this game several months ago. For the expert player it
is a total piece of crap!!

On 9-6 jacks played normally after 75 hands you will be even or ahead
over 40% of the time. On this game you will have paid $20. When you
are between -1 hand and -15 hands in that period you still have lost
money on the "guarantee". Only on -17 hands or more will you gain
with the "guarantee" and at -32 hands your gain would be equal to the
$20 you lose whenever even or plus. (Play 75 hand of 9-6 jacks at
your favorite casino a couple of times and compare how you would do
with the "guarantee".) For 9-6 jacks it will cost you over 4% EV!
This "vig" is alot less for the average player because the mistakes
they make will push the likelyhood of them being minus more hands
upward. Ditto for poor pay tables. For the serious player, avoid this
game like the plague!!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob" <jacob36@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "danbvbv" <dbaise@> wrote:

#14

howardwstern wrote:

We discussed this game several months ago. For the expert player it
is a total piece of crap!!

On 9-6 jacks played normally after 75 hands you will be even or ahead
over 40% of the time. On this game you will have paid $20.

It's been written that on low variance games like 9/6 Jacks (& BP, DW)
you get 300 hands for $40. Does that begin to make things more
attractive?

- H.

#15

howardwstern wrote:
> We discussed this game several months ago. For the expert player it
> is a total piece of crap!!
>
> On 9-6 jacks played normally after 75 hands you will be even or

ahead

> over 40% of the time. On this game you will have paid $20.

It's been written that on low variance games like 9/6 Jacks (& BP, DW)
you get 300 hands for $40. Does that begin to make things more
attractive?

- H.

Yes but the game is still crap. It appears to be designed to make the
game revenue neutral for the casino. The fact that the typical player
plays far worse than the average player in this group makes that $40 of
insurance more worthwhile to the poor player who is far more likely to
be down over $40. (If you hit a quad during the 300 hands, which you
are a favorite to do, you will almost never be down $40 and if you do
not hit a quad you are still an underdog to be down over $40.) Again,
you may want to run a few 300 hand simulations on your video poker
software. Also on the low variance games, any late in the cycle
strategy adjustments will be less effective. This game might be more
interesting if it was coupled with a very generous pay table for the
base game.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

#16

For those that want more information on this.
Here is a link to the IGT section on Guaranteed games
http://www.igt.com/GamingGroup/Games/base.asp?pid=5.317

Regards

A.P.

#17

There are at least 59 Guarenteed Play machines at Fiesta Rancho, just between the Amigo Club and the parking garage.

Looks like the wave of the future at privately owned Stations

···
#18

All we need to do now is figure out how to get them up to 101%

···

-------Original Message-------

From: Richard Gordon
Date: 8/17/2007 1:51:02 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Guaranteed video poker is at station casinos

There are at least 59 Guarenteed Play machines at Fiesta Rancho, just
between the Amigo Club and the parking garage.

Looks like the wave of the future at privately owned Stations

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

in walking through boulder station, I counted AT LEAST 10 banks of
these machines. My guess without counting would be 100 of these type
machines or more. Has anyone ever seen a casino company put in this
many of one kind of machine all at the same time? It cannot be a good
thing for the player just because of the availabilty.

There are at least 59 Guarenteed Play machines at Fiesta Rancho,

just

···

between the Amigo Club and the parking garage.

Looks like the wave of the future at privately owned Stations
>
>

#20

Its because its in field test is all.

···

On 8/17/07, bdhabm <bdhabm@yahoo.com> wrote:

  in walking through boulder station, I counted AT LEAST 10 banks of
these machines. My guess without counting would be 100 of these type
machines or more. Has anyone ever seen a casino company put in this
many of one kind of machine all at the same time? It cannot be a good
thing for the player just because of the availabilty.
>
>
> There are at least 59 Guarenteed Play machines at Fiesta Rancho,
just
> between the Amigo Club and the parking garage.
>
> Looks like the wave of the future at privately owned Stations
> >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]