Sorry, I lost the email address to send questions for upcoming guests on the show. My question for Michael Gaughan is: Why did he decide to not have different players club tier levels at South Point?
Gambling With an Edge
tiki wrote: Sorry, I lost the email address to send questions for upcoming guests on the show. My question for Michael Gaughan is: Why did he decide to not have different players club tier levels at South Point?
The address is gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com. That question is on the list to be asked. Bob
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hey, I got a question for Gaughan, "How come there are no FPDW at South Point?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tikithecat73lakeworth" <fjc73@...> wrote:
Sorry, I lost the email address to send questions for upcoming guests on the show. My question for Michael Gaughan is: Why did he decide to not have different players club tier levels at South Point?
I assume you don't recall Michael's work at the Barbary Coast. Say, how did that turn out for them? If you're curious, it's called Bill's now.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@...> wrote:
Hey, I got a question for Gaughan, "How come there are no FPDW at South Point?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tikithecat73lakeworth" <fjc73@> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I lost the email address to send questions for upcoming guests on the show. My question for Michael Gaughan is: Why did he decide to not have different players club tier levels at South Point?
>
The FPDW were taken out a long time before he sold BC.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndive@...> wrote:
I assume you don't recall Michael's work at the Barbary Coast. Say, how did that turn out for them? If you're curious, it's called Bill's now.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumsparky" <dianalnagy@> wrote:
>
> Hey, I got a question for Gaughan, "How come there are no FPDW at South Point?
>
Three different people posted the following: I assume you don't recall Michael's work at the Barbary Coast. Say, how did that turn out for them? If you're curious, it's called Bill's now.
Hey, I got a question for Gaughan, "How come there are no FPDW at South Point?
The FPDW were taken out a long time before he sold BC. Gaughan sold the Barbary Coast, along with the other Coast Casinos, to Boyd for $1.3 million in 2004. In 2006 he bought back the South Coast, renaming it South Point, for $576 million --- which was less than it cost to build. Insofar as the "How did that work out for them?" question, I'd say "pretty well." When I started teaching at the South Point in 2008, I requested they put in quarter FPDW, 10/7 DB, and 10/6 DDB. They did --- in the corridor by the slot club booth and the statue of Benny Binion. They lasted a little over a year. The reason they were taken out is that Gaughan has an over-riding philosophy that all video poker machines should be treated equally --- for mailers, promotions, etc. Making them $2 = 1 point or $4 = 1 point or not available for promotions (like other casinos do who still have these games) was not something he was willing to do. Without making those changes, the machines were losing more money than he was comfortable with. I argued with him at great length to make an exception for this bank of machines --- and I was unsuccessful. The machines never came back.
I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta --- who have a very aggressive policy of restricting players who have the gall to play these machines appropriately. It wouldn't surprise me if they were removed altogether from these casinos before we see 2013. There are many players who have played FPDW for years. It's easy to get an edge at that game. These players don't want to put up with lesser games where it is harder to get an edge --- and it requires a lot of study to gain competence in these other games. I don't blame the players for feeling that way. Doing things the way you've always done them is comfortable and doesn't require learning new skills. But the world has changed and it's not going back. If you want to succeed at video poker today, you either need to fight over the few remaining FPDW machines (for as long as you're welcome to do so) or adapt to the many other ways there are at succeeding at the game. It's not always true, but frequently the players who complain the loudest about this are the ones who are least able to adapt successfully to the changes. Success at video poker follows a Darwinian Survival of the Fittest model. Approximately as many players succeed today as did before --- but they are not all the same people. A new guard of players have used computers and studied and gained the skills to replace some of the old guard. The old guard used to be able to win at this game and are now finding they don't have the ability to compete with the new guard without studying --- which they've forgotten how to do. And they are not happy about it. And so they complain bitterly and play the blame game. Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Very good reply Bob.
Thanks for starting to post in Vpfree again.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@...> wrote:
Three different people posted the following: I assume you don't recall Michael's work at the Barbary Coast. Say, how did that turn out for them? If you're curious, it's called Bill's now.
Hey, I got a question for Gaughan, "How come there are no FPDW at South Point?The FPDW were taken out a long time before he sold BC. Gaughan sold the Barbary Coast, along with the other Coast Casinos, to Boyd for $1.3 million in 2004. In 2006 he bought back the South Coast, renaming it South Point, for $576 million --- which was less than it cost to build. Insofar as the "How did that work out for them?" question, I'd say "pretty well." When I started teaching at the South Point in 2008, I requested they put in quarter FPDW, 10/7 DB, and 10/6 DDB. They did --- in the corridor by the slot club booth and the statue of Benny Binion. They lasted a little over a year. The reason they were taken out is that Gaughan has an over-riding philosophy that all video poker machines should be treated equally --- for mailers, promotions, etc. Making them $2 = 1 point or $4 = 1 point or not available for promotions (like other casinos do who still have these games) was not something he was willing to do. Without making those changes, the machines were losing more money than he was comfortable with. I argued with him at great length to make an exception for this bank of machines --- and I was unsuccessful. The machines never came back.
I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta --- who have a very aggressive policy of restricting players who have the gall to play these machines appropriately. It wouldn't surprise me if they were removed altogether from these casinos before we see 2013. There are many players who have played FPDW for years. It's easy to get an edge at that game. These players don't want to put up with lesser games where it is harder to get an edge --- and it requires a lot of study to gain competence in these other games. I don't blame the players for feeling that way. Doing things the way you've always done them is comfortable and doesn't require learning new skills. But the world has changed and it's not going back. If you want to succeed at video poker today, you either need to fight over the few remaining FPDW machines (for as long as you're welcome to do so) or adapt to the many other ways there are at succeeding at the game. It's not always true, but frequently the players who complain the loudest about this are the ones who are least able to adapt successfully to the changes. Success at video poker follows a Darwinian Survival of the Fittest model. Approximately as many players succeed today as did before --- but they are not all the same people. A new guard of players have used computers and studied and gained the skills to replace some of the old guard. The old guard used to be able to win at this game and are now finding they don't have the ability to compete with the new guard without studying --- which they've forgotten how to do. And they are not happy about it. And so they complain bitterly and play the blame game. Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ive noticed a lot of complaining from players about FPDW disappearing everywhere. I just want to let you folks know they will probably be extinct soon, not one slot director wants them, not because of the payback but, because of the ease in which people can play and be accurate. This is the reason you still see much more 10/7 DB. Even though its positive, most people cannot play it correctly. Bob is correct in saying that stations will get rid of the deuces soon but Im sure the DDB and DB will stay. All those 99.8% purple machines going in at the stations are most likely the replacement for many of the MG 100% machines. The 16/10 deuces(they go to dollar)are getting more play every time I go in there and that will be the death of the FPDW there. Sams Town Deuces are ridiculously slow so they pose no threat to their bottom line. Besides I dont see too many people playing proper strategy and that place doesn't seem to mind the people camping out at the machines with food and trash everywhere. Other places are not so forgiving about image. There are tons of articles preaching to everyone that knowing several games is the way to go. I think its time people actually tried this.
···
________________________________
The machines never came back.
I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta ---
I agree that competence in several different VP games is going to be increasingly necessary --- and there's an additional benefit: a reduction in the mind-numbing boredom FPDW induces in many players.
I just want to let you folks know they will probably be extinct soon, not one slot director wants them, not because of the payback but, because of the ease in which people can play and be accurate. This is the reason you still see much more 10/7 DB. Even though its positive, most people cannot play it correctly. Bob is correct in saying that stations will get rid of the deuces soon but Im sure the DDB and DB will stay. All those 99.8% purple machines going in at the stations are most likely the replacement for many of the MG 100% machines. The 16/10 deuces(they go to dollar)are getting more play every time I go in there and that will be the death of the FPDW there.
There are tons of articles preaching to everyone that knowing several games is the way to go. I think its time people actually tried this.
···
________________________________
The machines never came back.
I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta ---
I'm not sure who is advising the casino's, but its not really good advice. Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule. For example, If a casino takes a fp deuces 5 coin schedule and cuts the 5K=70, and WRF=120, folks would still play it ! Why , simply because at 100.27 EV, its still the best game in town, and the casino makes an extra $50,000 cash, for every 10M coin in thanks to the reduced pay schedule.
best...Tom
···
----- Original Message ----- From: "dealt4oak" <dealt4oak@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge
Ive noticed a lot of complaining from players about FPDW disappearing everywhere. I just want to let you folks know they will probably be extinct soon, not one slot director wants them, not because of the payback but, because of the ease in which people can play and be accurate. This is the reason you still see much more 10/7 DB. Even though its positive, most people cannot play it correctly. Bob is correct in saying that stations will get rid of the deuces soon but Im sure the DDB and DB will stay. All those 99.8% purple machines going in at the stations are most likely the replacement for many of the MG 100% machines. The 16/10 deuces(they go to dollar)are getting more play every time I go in there and that will be the death of the FPDW there. Sams Town Deuces are ridiculously slow so they pose no threat to their bottom line. Besides I dont see too many people playing proper strategy and that place doesn't seem to mind the people camping out at the machines with food and trash everywhere. Other places are not so forgiving about image. There are tons of articles preaching to everyone that knowing several games is the way to go. I think its time people actually tried this.
________________________________
The machines never came back.
I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta ---------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
It's stupid to pull them.
I watched a whole set of banks with Dueces going off,
about 90% full, signs over the machines bragging of
the over 10% payback and only one person was
playing fast. (Two machines, too!)
I watched a handful of players and they were holding
one high card and crazy things like that.
(I could hit a royal!)
What the Casinos forget is that for every amateur
like me who studies the math, we have 10-20
friends who listen to us and tag along with us.
They never play properly no matter what we say,
and always dump whatever money they get.
By making it not worth my while to play there,
they won't get the bump of my circle doing the same.
I was thrown out of a casino once for counting cards
at a blackjack table.
My friends who I was with, had been brought up to
speed, so I thought, about what I was doing, not to
mention the need for disgression.
Well they blew my cover at the table so I was thrown out.
So I left and so did the six people with me.
Who had wandered all over the near empty Casino and
were playing slots and craps until they ran out of money
and came back to watch me play BJ.
DOH!
For every Bob Dancer they kick out, 200 or more
negative EV VP players leave.
···
--- On Sun, 3/4/12, tomflush <tomflush@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
From: tomflush <tomflush@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 2:00 PM
I'm not sure who is advising the casino's, but its not really good advice.
Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule. For
example, If a casino takes a fp deuces 5 coin schedule and cuts the 5K=70,
and WRF=120, folks would still play it ! Why , simply because at 100.27 EV,
its still the best game in town, and the casino makes an extra $50,000 cash,
for every 10M coin in thanks to the reduced pay schedule.
best...Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "dealt4oak" <dealt4oak@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge
Ive noticed a lot of complaining from players about FPDW disappearing
everywhere. I just want to let you folks know they will probably be
extinct soon, not one slot director wants them, not because of the payback
but, because of the ease in which people can play and be accurate. This is
the reason you still see much more 10/7 DB. Even though its positive, most
people cannot play it correctly. Bob is correct in saying that stations
will get rid of the deuces soon but Im sure the DDB and DB will stay. All
those 99.8% purple machines going in at the stations are most likely the
replacement for many of the MG 100% machines. The 16/10 deuces(they go to
dollar)are getting more play every time I go in there and that will be the
death of the FPDW there. Sams Town Deuces are ridiculously slow so they
pose no threat to their bottom line. Besides I dont see too many people
playing proper strategy and that place doesn't seem to mind the people
camping out at the machines with food and trash everywhere. Other places
are not so forgiving about image. There are tons of articles preaching to
everyone that knowing several games is the way to go. I think its time
people actually tried this.________________________________
The machines never came back.
I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The
primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta ---------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tom argued: I'm not sure who is advising the casino's, but its not really good advice.
Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule. For
example, If a casino takes a fp deuces 5 coin schedule and cuts the 5K=70,
and WRF=120, folks would still play it ! Why , simply because at 100.27 EV,
its still the best game in town, and the casino makes an extra $50,000 cash,
for every 10M coin in thanks to the reduced pay schedule.
That's not as easy as you imply. When a casino wishes to change pay schedules, they do not have free reign. They are limited to choosing among the pay schedules offered by the manufacturers. If you want to argue that IGT should offer looser pay schedule options, go ahead. But whether they offer them or not, unless slot directors choose to put them on their machines, it doesn't change anything. If casinos wanted looser pay tables, IGT would offer them. As to the specifics of your example, keep in mind that few casinos even offer NSU --- which is a half percent tighter than the example you gave. When casinos add up slot club, promotions, overhead, etc., most have come to the conclusion that they cannot afford a 99.7% game. In a different post, Bruce Cohen argued strongly that there are enough bad players out there that casinos can make money with FPDW. This is a case of preaching to the choir. Members of vpFREE obviously wants loose pay tables --- and any argument in favor of that resonates here. Except the argument is basically incorrect. Whatever arguments players want to use that there some bad players out there (and undoubtedly there are many), the bottom line for the casino is how many dollars per day do FPDW and other 100% machines make for the casino. The slot director at the South Point told me the machines were making $10 per day BEFORE including slot club and other benefits. And there were several 100% games on those machines quite a bit tighter than FPDW. I argued as strongly as I knew how that "loss leaders" made sense for the casino. I used many arguments similar to the ones Bruce made here. The arguments fell on deaf ears. Their mind was made up. And this was at a casino committed to loose video poker. Most casinos have no such commitment. There are more bad players than good players --- but good players put a lot more coin-in through the machines than their not-so-good counterparts.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The grocery store carries plenty of items they don't make a
profit on, to stay competitive.
Milk in California cannot be sold for less than cost (silly)
because it was such a loss leader.
The Casino should look at the overall handle and hold,
not only the individual machine.
Just like with a grocery store, you have a mix of products
with various margins, all designed to keep your numbers
overall up.
Using aforementioned Casino management logic, they
ought to pull all VP machines because even a 95% game
'gives away' twice as much as a 90% slot.
···
--- On Sun, 3/4/12, Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Bob Dancer <bobdancervp@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 3:03 PM
Tom argued: I'm not sure who is advising the casino's, but its not really good advice.
Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule. For
example, If a casino takes a fp deuces 5 coin schedule and cuts the 5K=70,
and WRF=120, folks would still play it ! Why , simply because at 100.27 EV,
its still the best game in town, and the casino makes an extra $50,000 cash,
for every 10M coin in thanks to the reduced pay schedule.
That's not as easy as you imply. When a casino wishes to change pay schedules, they do not have free reign. They are limited to choosing among the pay schedules offered by the manufacturers. If you want to argue that IGT should offer looser pay schedule options, go ahead. But whether they offer them or not, unless slot directors choose to put them on their machines, it doesn't change anything. If casinos wanted looser pay tables, IGT would offer them. As to the specifics of your example, keep in mind that few casinos even offer NSU --- which is a half percent tighter than the example you gave. When casinos add up slot club, promotions, overhead, etc., most have come to the conclusion that they cannot afford a 99.7% game. In a different post, Bruce Cohen argued strongly that there are enough bad players out there that casinos can make money with FPDW. This is a case of preaching to the choir. Members of vpFREE obviously wants loose pay tables --- and any
argument in favor of that resonates here. Except the argument is basically incorrect. Whatever arguments players want to use that there some bad players out there (and undoubtedly there are many), the bottom line for the casino is how many dollars per day do FPDW and other 100% machines make for the casino. The slot director at the South Point told me the machines were making $10 per day BEFORE including slot club and other benefits. And there were several 100% games on those machines quite a bit tighter than FPDW. I argued as strongly as I knew how that "loss leaders" made sense for the casino. I used many arguments similar to the ones Bruce made here. The arguments fell on deaf ears. Their mind was made up. And this was at a casino committed to loose video poker. Most casinos have no such commitment. There are more bad players than good players --- but good players put a lot more coin-in through the machines than their not-so-good counterparts.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Uh, wouldn't lowering the pay schedule be the same as getting rid of them?
The term "full pay deuces" refers to a specific pay table - anything worse is simply not full pay deuces.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule.
$10 million coin in is 8000000 hands which is about 20000 hours of play at 400 hands/hour (833 days of play)on the slow Sams Town machines. I dont think management cares about $50k over that long of a time period. This is taking into consideration that everyone is playing perfect and the machines are played 24 hours a day which they are not. The casino could be making a lot more than that with any other game, a highly volatile game. Turnover is what they seek not a knowledgeable player sitting at a machine for 8 straight hours. The penny machines at that casino get heavy play and I'm sure that's what they eventually be replaced with. I think its really good advice. I'm looking at this from the view of a casino which Ive happened to work in before so I was able to see coin in and out reports for players and machines. Local casinos keep these machines for bragging rights as having the "loosest vp machines in town." You dont see this kind of advertising from strip casinos hence they have no need to have full pay machines taking up valuable slot floor space. I went to the MGM recently and over 40 of the poker machines going up to $5 have been replaced with slots and multi-line video reels, and you know what? There making more money. The machines were packed with people playing max bet. If and when all the FPDW disappear I guarantee at least %90 percent of these players will resort to another poker game that has a higher hold or is more volatile. Look at the jackpot pictures everywhere, there are plenty of people content with playing short pay vp.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
I'm not sure who is advising the casino's, but its not really good advice.
Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule. For
example, If a casino takes a fp deuces 5 coin schedule and cuts the 5K=70,
and WRF=120, folks would still play it ! Why , simply because at 100.27 EV,
its still the best game in town, and the casino makes an extra $50,000 cash,
for every 10M coin in thanks to the reduced pay schedule.best...Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "dealt4oak" <dealt4oak@...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge> Ive noticed a lot of complaining from players about FPDW disappearing
> everywhere. I just want to let you folks know they will probably be
> extinct soon, not one slot director wants them, not because of the payback
> but, because of the ease in which people can play and be accurate. This is
> the reason you still see much more 10/7 DB. Even though its positive, most
> people cannot play it correctly. Bob is correct in saying that stations
> will get rid of the deuces soon but Im sure the DDB and DB will stay. All
> those 99.8% purple machines going in at the stations are most likely the
> replacement for many of the MG 100% machines. The 16/10 deuces(they go to
> dollar)are getting more play every time I go in there and that will be the
> death of the FPDW there. Sams Town Deuces are ridiculously slow so they
> pose no threat to their bottom line. Besides I dont see too many people
> playing proper strategy and that place doesn't seem to mind the people
> camping out at the machines with food and trash everywhere. Other places
> are not so forgiving about image. There are tons of articles preaching to
> everyone that knowing several games is the way to go. I think its time
> people actually tried this.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> The machines never came back.
> I doubt they will. Since then, FPDW are gone from almost everywhere. The
> primary place they exist now is Stations/Fiesta ---
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Yes and No. In this age of computers, social networks, and widely disseminated information - The good games have to adapt to survive. Nobody plays perfect , but full pay deuces at 100.76, even with good / regular players at places like the Palms and Stations are probably knocking off a 100.26 % clip - beating the casino. An 100.2 AFP ( almost full pay ) deuces game , I maintain, would not be positive after aggregate average player mistakes. I play on the east coast and our AC full pay double bonus poker game is 9/7. It use to be 10/7, but that's history - we accept it and move on. The best deuces games in AC is 99.0%, thus not very popular , the greedy casino slashed the pay schedule too much. I use to play $1 FP Joker 4700 in Vegas. Now, If I find a 90/4000 $ game, I consider it lucky. Blackjack is still a popular game , but the best Vegas rules and opportunities for counting are a small sliver of what they use to be. The game and players have adapted, so that casino's can make a profit and players still have a chance to win.
···
----- Original Message -----
Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule.
Uh, wouldn't lowering the pay schedule be the same as getting rid of them?
The term "full pay deuces" refers to a specific pay table - anything worse is simply not full pay deuces.
Full pay refers to the highest, most widely available pay scale for a specific game. If 16/10 deuces becomes the norm and the other disappears NSUD will then be known as full pay. 9/6 DDB is often referred to as full pay because it is the most common pay scale and the 10/6 is so rare and really only associated with the Stations group now.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
>> Instead of getting rid of Full pay deuces , lower the pay schedule.
>
> Uh, wouldn't lowering the pay schedule be the same as getting rid of them?
>
> The term "full pay deuces" refers to a specific pay table - anything worse
> is simply not full pay deuces.Yes and No. In this age of computers, social networks, and widely
disseminated information - The good games have to adapt to survive. Nobody
plays perfect , but full pay deuces at 100.76, even with good / regular
players at places like the Palms and Stations are probably knocking off a
100.26 % clip - beating the casino. An 100.2 AFP ( almost full pay )
deuces game , I maintain, would not be positive after aggregate average
player mistakes. I play on the east coast and our AC full pay double bonus
poker game is 9/7. It use to be 10/7, but that's history - we accept it and
move on. The best deuces games in AC is 99.0%, thus not very popular , the
greedy casino slashed the pay schedule too much. I use to play $1 FP Joker
4700 in Vegas. Now, If I find a 90/4000 $ game, I consider it lucky.
Blackjack is still a popular game , but the best Vegas rules and
opportunities for counting are a small sliver of what they use to be. The
game and players have adapted, so that casino's can make a profit and
players still have a chance to win.
<<Full pay refers to the highest, most widely available pay scale for a
specific game. If 16/10 deuces becomes the norm and the other disappears
NSUD will then be known as full pay. 9/6 DDB is often referred to as full
pay because it is the most common pay scale and the 10/6 is so rare and
really only associated with the Stations group now.>>
I don't think that's really true. "Full Pay" refers to the highest pay
schedule sometime in the 1990s when the Skip Hughes Group stated naming
things. 10/6 DDB was released relatively recently, and 16/10 Deuces will
never be called "FPDW."
Cogno
Exactly full pay is the highest available pay scale "at the time." You didn't really say anything different than I did. I do think NSUD can become known as full pay as a new generation of advantage players comes into existence and FPDW disappears. Different generations of players will definitely have an affect on naming. I hear it now when I talk to newer players.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@...> wrote:
<<Full pay refers to the highest, most widely available pay scale for a
specific game. If 16/10 deuces becomes the norm and the other disappears
NSUD will then be known as full pay. 9/6 DDB is often referred to as full
pay because it is the most common pay scale and the 10/6 is so rare and
really only associated with the Stations group now.>>I don't think that's really true. "Full Pay" refers to the highest pay
schedule sometime in the 1990s when the Skip Hughes Group stated naming
things. 10/6 DDB was released relatively recently, and 16/10 Deuces will
never be called "FPDW."Cogno
Actually I really did say something different.
Cogno
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
dealt4oak
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2012 10:50 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Gambling With an Edge
Exactly full pay is the highest available pay scale "at the time." You
didn't really say anything different than I did. I do think NSUD can become
known as full pay as a new generation of advantage players comes into
existence and FPDW disappears. Different generations of players will
definitely have an affect on naming. I hear it now when I talk to newer
players.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@...> wrote:
<<Full pay refers to the highest, most widely available pay scale for
a specific game. If 16/10 deuces becomes the norm and the other
disappears NSUD will then be known as full pay. 9/6 DDB is often
referred to as full pay because it is the most common pay scale and
the 10/6 is so rare and really only associated with the Stations group
now.>>I don't think that's really true. "Full Pay" refers to the highest pay
schedule sometime in the 1990s when the Skip Hughes Group stated
naming things. 10/6 DDB was released relatively recently, and 16/10
Deuces will never be called "FPDW."Cogno
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