vpFREE2 Forums

Darn it! = Royal at Rampart

#1

Sometimes dumb luck can be a good thing (emphasis on DUMB). I play
various VP games and move between games regularly and play fairly fast.
Most of my time is on JOB,DB, and Bonus. Yesterday at Rampart I was
playing $1. DB and going downhill. I switched to Deuces and continued
my slide. A neighbor player distracted me and in a total lapse of
common sense I held Q,10 of Hearts in a Deuces game. I muttered Darn
it (or something sronger) and watched as the K,J,A of Hearts filled the
screen and the music started.

After years of practice and trying to play correctly, it was great to
have a "fluke" error turn to $$s. I wonder if other VPfree players have
had similar events?
Reyer

#2

and how is holding the q,10 lacking in common sense???

Sometimes dumb luck can be a good thing (emphasis on DUMB). I play
various VP games and move between games regularly and play fairly

fast.

Most of my time is on JOB,DB, and Bonus. Yesterday at Rampart I was
playing $1. DB and going downhill. I switched to Deuces and continued
my slide. A neighbor player distracted me and in a total lapse of
common sense I held Q,10 of Hearts in a Deuces game. I muttered Darn
it (or something sronger) and watched as the K,J,A of Hearts filled

the

screen and the music started.

After years of practice and trying to play correctly, it was great to
have a "fluke" error turn to $$s. I wonder if other VPfree players

have

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "advisorre2000" <Reyer@...> wrote:

had similar events?
Reyer

#3

Oh well, maybe "Common Sense" was a bad choice. However, the deuces
strategy cards show that of 21 possible 'Holds" with the 21st
being "Hold nothing", The 20th hold is the Q,10. Since I rarely play
deuces and am weak on that strategy, I just happened to hit it.
Reyer

and how is holding the q,10 lacking in common sense???

> A neighbor player distracted me and in a total lapse of

> common sense I held Q,10 of Hearts in a Deuces game. I muttered

Darn

> it (or something sronger) and watched as the K,J,A of Hearts

filled

the
> screen and the music started.
>
> After years of practice and trying to play correctly, it was

great to

> have a "fluke" error turn to $$s. I wonder if other VPfree

players

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lv_nv_realtor" <irdd@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "advisorre2000" <Reyer@> wrote:
have
> had similar events?
> Reyer
>

#4

QT suited is the correct hold for most deuces games. Sometimes the
4ST 1 gap is better but at Ramparts they don't have FPDW so you made
the right play.

Congrats.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "advisorre2000" <Reyer@...> wrote:

Oh well, maybe "Common Sense" was a bad choice. However, the deuces
strategy cards show that of 21 possible 'Holds" with the 21st
being "Hold nothing", The 20th hold is the Q,10. Since I rarely play
deuces and am weak on that strategy, I just happened to hit it.
Reyer
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lv_nv_realtor" <irdd@> wrote:
>
> and how is holding the q,10 lacking in common sense???
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "advisorre2000" <Reyer@> wrote:
>> > A neighbor player distracted me and in a total lapse of
> > common sense I held Q,10 of Hearts in a Deuces game. I muttered
Darn
> > it (or something sronger) and watched as the K,J,A of Hearts
filled
> the
> > screen and the music started.
> >
> > After years of practice and trying to play correctly, it was
great to
> > have a "fluke" error turn to $$s. I wonder if other VPfree
players
> have
> > had similar events?
> > Reyer
> >
>

#5

Kiwiboy reported: QT suited is the correct hold for most deuces games.
Sometimes the 4ST 1 gap is better but at Ramparts they don't have FPDW
so you made the right play.

Probably. Although there could have been a suited 8 or 9, which should
also have been held. Or a J9 unsuited which would have provided a 4-card
straight, or a pair of sixes, or a . . .

In my "Million Dollar Video Poker" autobiography, I tell about holding a
suited AT in 9/6 Jacks or Better and scoring on it at Casino Royale. The
error was made because I was misreading a coupon. I thought it paid me
9000 coins (rather than 4000) for a royal, but it only did that if the
royal was in clubs. My 'AT' was in spades, so I just got the normal
4,000 royal.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#6

Bob: Remember the original poster forgot which game he was playing, and momentarily lapsed into
JB, or DB strategy. He was doing the correct hold for either of those two games.

Regards

A.P.

···

--- Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@compdance.com> wrote:

Probably. Although there could have been a suited 8 or 9, which should
also have been held. Or a J9 unsuited which would have provided a 4-card
straight, or a pair of sixes, or a . . .

Bob Dancer

#7

A.P. wrote: Bob: Remember the original poster forgot which game he was
playing, and momentarily lapsed into JB, or DB strategy. He was doing
the correct hold for either of those two games.

  True, but he didn't have to be a GOOD JB or DB player. There are
a lot of hands in those two games that should be played differently,
such as whether to hold a 'QT3' suited. Many players who switch back and
forth between games play them all more or less the same.

  Just the fact that they switch back and forth between games is
probably an indicator that they aren't a very competent player. It's not
conclusive evidence, but it creates a strong presumption. Strong players
generally only play the game that returns the most.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#8

Great. Another quote from Bob worth remembering.

I can know the correct strategies for multiple games. But, Bob
thinks that I'm not very competent, if I switch back and forth
between these games that I know so well.

Bob is wrong about his presumption.

Knowing the proper strategies creates a "strong presumption" of
competency. Playing only the one game in the casino with the
highest return does not.

···

On 7/19/07, Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@compdance.com> wrote:

       Just the fact that they switch back and forth between games is
probably an indicator that they aren't a very competent player. It's not
conclusive evidence, but it creates a strong presumption. Strong players
generally only play the game that returns the most.

Bob Dancer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

OK, my intention was to just share a brief incident of my
forgetfulness (Dancer indicates this is the incompetence of a week
player). I'll admit that my mind slipped back to DB strategy it just
worked out well. Finally, FYI, I use Dancer and Frugal to practice
and usually play best games available. That was my 14th $l Royal for
2007.

Great. Another quote from Bob worth remembering.

I can know the correct strategies for multiple games. But, Bob
thinks that I'm not very competent, if I switch back and forth
between these games that I know so well.

Bob is wrong about his presumption.

Knowing the proper strategies creates a "strong presumption" of
competency. Playing only the one game in the casino with the
highest return does not.

>
>
> Just the fact that they switch back and forth between

games is

> probably an indicator that they aren't a very competent player.

It's not

> conclusive evidence, but it creates a strong presumption. Strong

players

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@...> wrote:

On 7/19/07, Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@...> wrote:
> generally only play the game that returns the most.
>
> Bob Dancer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Curtis Rich <LGTVegas@gmail.com> wrote: Great. Another quote from Bob worth remembering.

I can know the correct strategies for multiple games. But, Bob
thinks that I'm not very competent, if I switch back and forth
between these games that I know so well.

···

shovel<<<<<<<<<<<<

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   
  This is called an "opinion". We all have them. Bob has his, you have yours. What is the purpose of your post? Why attack for his opinion?
   
  You can always use the delete option, but please cut the baiting crap. Grow up and live with it.
   
  Jigger
  "No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too
seriously."

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

I actually agree with Bob.

People that switch back and forward between games are rarely good
players because of the reasons he and you mentioned:

1. People make mistakes because they forget which game you playing
(your point of the post I believe).

2. Most good players play the best combo of EV/Variance on any
machine. There is no need to change games (Bob's point).

Again, congrats on the Royal. I hope all my errors end in Royals :wink:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@...>
wrote:

Curtis Rich <LGTVegas@...> wrote: Great. Another quote from Bob

worth remembering.

I can know the correct strategies for multiple games. But, Bob
thinks that I'm not very competent, if I switch back and forth
between these games that I know so well.
>>>>>>>>>shovel<<<<<<<<<<<<
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   
  This is called an "opinion". We all have them. Bob has his,

you have yours. What is the purpose of your post? Why attack for
his opinion?

   
  You can always use the delete option, but please cut the baiting

crap. Grow up and live with it.

   
  Jigger
  "No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too
seriously."

---------------------------------
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone

who knows.

···

Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#12

As far as Im concerened, evreybody is right in this case! Its

simply
a matter of what you wish to accomplish playing video poker. Bob
Dancer and his ilk make all (or a majority of) their moolah playing
video poker. Therefore, Its essential to play the game with the best
EV in any given casino. So understandbly they wanna capture evrey
last
millionth of a cent for any given hold. However, and Im just
assuming
based on what he/she wrote, Reyer is a casual player looking to
enjoy
video poker while loosing as little as possible. Maybe even turning
a
profit if the luck gods are so willing. Alot of player do what Reyer
does as far bouncing from game to game. Hell I even do it on
occasion!
As a matter of fact the games Im alternating from are NSU, 10/7DB
(sometimes even 9/7) and vanilla BP. I know the basic strategy for
each game I could care less about the quarter of a cent errors! When
I
play serioulsy, Im usually at a 1% advantage or more plus
mailers/bouceback/drawings ect. I dont give two sh#ts if going for a
suited QT over a STR4 inside turns a 101.15% play into a 101.03%
play!
Always remember, even if you play 110% stone cold perfect, some poor
bastard is gonna be in that ugly 1% thats way below expection!

-Dan

#13

My post was not an attack, Jigger. It was just a disagreement with
Bob's statements. What? We can only post replies if we agree? There's no
room for disagreement? In and of itself, posting a disagreement is not an
attack. Nothing in my original email was "attacking" Bob. (If you think
something was "attacking" please tell me, specifically, what it is.)

You seem to have a problem with my posting my "opinion." I'm not sure why.
Are we not allowed to post opinions in this Group?

Bob's presumption that I am not very competent, if I switch between
different games in a casino, is just plain wrong. As I said in my post (the
portion you did not quote), not knowing the proper strategies of these
games creates a stronger presumption of incompetency than merely switching
between games.

You asked for my point, Jigger, so I will tell you. My point was that Bob
has made many comments on this forum that I disagree with, or I
find erroneous, or I find negative, or I find rude, or I find funny.
Recently (due to the "Linda Boyd strategies" issues), I have begun keeping
track of these comments made by Bob, so I can refer to them later. I don't
have time to go back and read all of his vpFREE posts, since inception.
So, my list of quotes is not all that long....yet. As I said at the
beginning of my original post, "Great. Another quote from Bob worth
remembering."

As for the last comment in you post, Jigger, if you don't like my posts, you
can always use the delete option or simply not read them. I won't know the
difference. My original post needed no reply. I was not asking a question
or looking for information. I was just stating facts. I was not baiting
anyone. But, you replied, anyway.

Jigger, should I take your comment to me ("Grow up and live with it.") as an
attack?

···

On 7/19/07, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@yahoo.com> wrote:

Curtis Rich <LGTVegas@gmail.com> wrote: Great. Another quote from Bob
worth remembering.

I can know the correct strategies for multiple games. But, Bob
thinks that I'm not very competent, if I switch back and forth
between these games that I know so well.
>>>>>>>>>shovel<<<<<<<<<<<<
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is called an "opinion". We all have them. Bob has his, you have
yours. What is the purpose of your post? Why attack for his opinion?

You can always use the delete option, but please cut the baiting
crap. Grow up and live with it.

Jigger

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

Bob Dancer said: "Strong players generally only play the game that
returns the most."

I'm not entirely sure what a "strong" player is, Dan. But, like you,
I play more than one game in a casino. For me, playing only one
version of VP gets old after awhile.

···

On 7/19/07, shortpaydan <shortpaydan@yahoo.com> wrote:

>As far as Im concerened, evreybody is right in this case! Its
simply
a matter of what you wish to accomplish playing video poker. Bob
Dancer and his ilk make all (or a majority of) their moolah playing
video poker. Therefore, Its essential to play the game with the best
EV in any given casino. So understandbly they wanna capture evrey
last
millionth of a cent for any given hold. However, and Im just
assuming
based on what he/she wrote, Reyer is a casual player looking to
enjoy
video poker while loosing as little as possible. Maybe even turning
a
profit if the luck gods are so willing. Alot of player do what Reyer
does as far bouncing from game to game. Hell I even do it on
occasion!
As a matter of fact the games Im alternating from are NSU, 10/7DB
(sometimes even 9/7) and vanilla BP. I know the basic strategy for
each game I could care less about the quarter of a cent errors! When
I
play serioulsy, Im usually at a 1% advantage or more plus
mailers/bouceback/drawings ect. I dont give two sh#ts if going for a
suited QT over a STR4 inside turns a 101.15% play into a 101.03%
play!
Always remember, even if you play 110% stone cold perfect, some poor
bastard is gonna be in that ugly 1% thats way below expection!

-Dan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

Wow. Dan, you certainly say what you feel; and I don't say that
lightly. Maybe I am a player like Reyer. The net result in the
casino is miniscule versus what happens in the stock market; and I
am not a stock market trader. But I know that on any given day, I
could win or lose at least five digits in the market; and I don't
even get to choose cards to hold. It really doesn't matter, because
it is just numbers on statements.

On the other hand, the casino is a great escape from conventional
reality, as long as some cellphone addicts don't sit down near me.
101.15% versus 101.03%; I could care less. As long as MCD keeps
selling burgers; VZ keeps the cell addicts connected; and VLO and
APC keep the SUV addicts happy, then I get to play whenever I want.

And to fast food addicts, cellphone addicts, and gasoline addicts; I
appreciate your continued business so I can be a video poker addict.

>As far as Im concerened, evreybody is right in this case! Its
simply
a matter of what you wish to accomplish playing video poker. Bob
Dancer and his ilk make all (or a majority of) their moolah

playing

video poker. Therefore, Its essential to play the game with the

best

EV in any given casino. So understandbly they wanna capture evrey
last
millionth of a cent for any given hold. However, and Im just
assuming
based on what he/she wrote, Reyer is a casual player looking to
enjoy
video poker while loosing as little as possible. Maybe even

turning

a
profit if the luck gods are so willing. Alot of player do what

Reyer

does as far bouncing from game to game. Hell I even do it on
occasion!
As a matter of fact the games Im alternating from are NSU, 10/7DB
(sometimes even 9/7) and vanilla BP. I know the basic strategy for
each game I could care less about the quarter of a cent errors!

When

I
play serioulsy, Im usually at a 1% advantage or more plus
mailers/bouceback/drawings ect. I dont give two sh#ts if going for

a

suited QT over a STR4 inside turns a 101.15% play into a 101.03%
play!
Always remember, even if you play 110% stone cold perfect, some

poor

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "shortpaydan" <shortpaydan@...> wrote:

bastard is gonna be in that ugly 1% thats way below expection!

-Dan

#16

It's not any evidence, conclusive or otherwise. I would like to know how you define competent.
I consider myself to be a competent player. I do not consider myself to be an expert or a
professional. I do play many differnet games. For the most part I play the best games in the
casino I am in. In your own articles you play different games in different casinos.

You don't seem to understand that the majority of video poker players on this forum are not trying
to be professionals. They want to play , have fun, and get the most bang for their buck.

In short they are your "customer base" .

Regards

A.P.

···

--- Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@compdance.com> wrote:

  Just the fact that they switch back and forth between games is
probably an indicator that they aren't a very competent player. It's not
conclusive evidence, but it creates a strong presumption. Strong players
generally only play the game that returns the most.

Bob Dancer

#17

To point #2 - good players who visit various casinos (because they go
where their friends or spouses want to go) may need to play different
games because they ARE playing the best game offered by that
particular casino. Maybe that isn't considered "switching", but when
I am in LV I could easily hit 4 or 5 casinos in one day and I would
consider that to be a lot of "switching" games in a short period of
time (which can lead to errors per point #1).

It all depends on your definition of "good" or "competent" players.
I consider myself a good player who doesn't make many errors and I
can play several games well. But my threshold is surely a lot
different than Bob's who would probably consider me to
be "incompetent" because I don't study all penalty card situations.

SL

I actually agree with Bob.

People that switch back and forward between games are rarely good
players because of the reasons he and you mentioned:

1. People make mistakes because they forget which game you playing
(your point of the post I believe).

2. Most good players play the best combo of EV/Variance on any
machine. There is no need to change games (Bob's point).

Again, congrats on the Royal. I hope all my errors end in Royals :wink:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jigger Woodruff <bayfieldkent@>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Curtis Rich <LGTVegas@> wrote: Great. Another quote from Bob
worth remembering.
>
> I can know the correct strategies for multiple games. But, Bob
> thinks that I'm not very competent, if I switch back and forth
> between these games that I know so well.
> >>>>>>>>>shovel<<<<<<<<<<<<
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> This is called an "opinion". We all have them. Bob has his,
you have yours. What is the purpose of your post? Why attack for
his opinion?
>
> You can always use the delete option, but please cut the

baiting

crap. Grow up and live with it.
>
> Jigger
> "No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it

too

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "kiwiboy4921" <waynes@...> wrote:

> seriously."
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone
who knows.
> Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#18

Albert & SL: Thanks for your posts. I am glad to know that I am not alone
in being offended by Bob Dancer's post.

I don't really care if Bob Dancer thinks I am incompetent (for the reasons
he stated). It's his opinion (as Jigger pointed out in a previous post).

What bothers me is that Bob Dancer seems to think it's okay to post messages
that attempt to put down others. It seems to me that, lately, Bob Dancer's
posts are predominately negative when responding to others in this Group.
He's really turning off a lot of people, when he should be trying to do the
opposite.

Reyer's original post inquired if there were any other VPfree players that
have had similar situations - holding the wrong cards, but getting a great
hand. The problem with answering that question is then we would have to
admit that we make mistakes. For some of us, that's not an easy thing to
do.

···

On 7/19/07, Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com> wrote:

It's not any evidence, conclusive or otherwise. I would like to know how
you define competent.
I consider myself to be a competent player. I do not consider myself to be
an expert or a
professional. I do play many differnet games. For the most part I play the
best games in the
casino I am in. In your own articles you play different games in different
casinos.

You don't seem to understand that the majority of video poker players on
this forum are not trying
to be professionals. They want to play , have fun, and get the most bang
for their buck.

In short they are your "customer base"

On 7/20/07, larsonsm <larsonsm@yahoo.com> wrote:

<SNIP>
It all depends on your definition of "good" or "competent" players.
I consider myself a good player who doesn't make many errors and I
can play several games well. But my threshold is surely a lot
different than Bob's who would probably consider me to
be "incompetent" because I don't study all penalty card situations.

SL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

Curtis Rich wrote:

Albert & SL: Thanks for your posts. I am glad to know that I am not
alone in being offended by Bob Dancer's post.

I don't really care if Bob Dancer thinks I am incompetent (for the
reasons he stated). It's his opinion (as Jigger pointed out in a
previous post).

What bothers me is that Bob Dancer seems to think it's okay to post
messages that attempt to put down others. It seems to me that,
lately, Bob Dancer's posts are predominately negative when responding
to others in this Group. He's really turning off a lot of people,
when he should be trying to do the opposite.

Reyer's original post inquired if there were any other VPfree players
that have had similar situations - holding the wrong cards, but
getting a great hand. The problem with answering that question is
then we would have to admit that we make mistakes. For some of us,
that's not an easy thing to do.

Curtis, I say with with great respect for you, but I can't help but
wonder if you may be looking for offense in this case.

Bob's first contribution to the thread noted a modest exception to a
general statement by kiwiboy and then went on to recount Bob's own
anecdote where a hold made under a mistaken bonussing assumption, that
otherwise was ill advised, yielded a royal -- a contribution totally
suiting Reyer's request.

His second post offered a correction to a statement by AP. I see
nothing to fault in Bob's comment there. As you allude to, he
followed with,

"Just the fact that they switch back and forth between games is
probably an indicator that they aren't a very competent player. It's
not conclusive evidence, but it creates a strong presumption. Strong
players generally only play the game that returns the most."

That's a generalization couched in several conditional words, not a
condemnation of all players who prefer to switch between games. It's
suits my observations to a "t", but I hardly take it as intended to
criticize a very skilled friend who enjoys the challenge of swiftly
alternating play among several strong games on occasion to keep things
interesting.

For that matter, I don't think Bob questions my skill here either when
he wrote "only play the game that returns the most" -- I can name two
recent occasions on which I eschewed a higher return game for a lesser
return one at the denom I was playing because I wasn't sufficiently
bankrolled for the higher return game.

- Harry

#20

--- Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

>
> Just the fact that they switch back and forth between games is
> probably an indicator that they aren't a very competent player.

It's not

> conclusive evidence, but it creates a strong presumption. Strong

players

> generally only play the game that returns the most.
>
> Bob Dancer

It's not any evidence, conclusive or otherwise. I would like to

know how you define competent.

I consider myself to be a competent player. I do not consider

myself to be an expert or a

professional. I do play many differnet games. For the most part I

play the best games in the

casino I am in. In your own articles you play different games in

different casinos.

You don't seem to understand that the majority of video poker

players on this forum are not trying

to be professionals. They want to play , have fun, and get the most

bang for their buck.

In short they are your "customer base" .

Regards

A.P.

Well said.

Of 6000 or so members here, most probably just want to learn some of
the basics, enjoy playing the best paytable available to them, at the
best obtainable expertise that they can muster while doing other
things in their life also.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote: