vpFREE2 Forums

Darn it! = Royal at Rampart

#21

AP asked: I do play many differnet games. For the most part I play the
best games in the casino I am in. In your own articles you play
different games in different casinos.

You don't seem to understand that the majority of video poker players on
this forum are not trying to be professionals. They want to play , have
fun, and get the most bang for their buck.

In short they are your "customer base" .

  Yes I play many different games --- but generally only one at
each casino.

  I was referring to players who play $20 through the machine on,
say, Double Double Bonus. If that doesn't create anything good, they try
$20 on Deuces Wild. If that doesn't work, they try $20 on Jacks or
Better, etc. I was making the point that the players who switch like
this are not doing themselves a favor. Looking for a hot machine today
is not a path to winning. If they wish to win, they should concentrate
on the game that returns the most.

  I do understand that my "customer base," as you call it, is made
up of non-professional players who do all sorts of things that
professional players don't. My post was intended to instruct such
people. It was directed against no specific person.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#22

We've all seen Bob make these kind of subtle "put-downs" many times in
the past. Anyone who understands teaching knows it is not a very good
approach to start out by calling someone "incompetent". Put these two
together and it's pretty easy to deduce his thoughts ... I'm better
than you (and since that you is "no specific person" then that pretty
much means all of us).

Sorry Harry, sometimes you can't sugar coat the truth.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...> wrote:

  I do understand that my "customer base," as you call it, is made
up of non-professional players who do all sorts of things that
professional players don't. My post was intended to instruct such
people. It was directed against no specific person.

#23

player like Reyer! As it is, Im enough like you and Reyer than Bob
Dancer would tolerate! BTW, you know you and Mr. Grimm, I mean Mickey
Crimm are my favorite foils in this group! lol

-dan

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@...> wrote:

Wow. Dan, you certainly say what you feel; and I don't say that
lightly. Maybe I am a player like Reyer.
>
If I wasnt trying to make money playing video poker, Id LOVE to be

#24

I had to sign up for Yahoo under a new name. One big problem is I lost my address book. And if anyone has sent me a private email in the last few weeks I can not access it. Did anyone respond to my dinner invitation?:slight_smile:
   
     My new email address is pucekjoe@yahoo.com
   
     I would appreciate it if some of my vpFREE acquaintances would send me a test email. And feel free to call my cell anytime. 214 325-2410 I am flying to LV this Sunday, one day too late for the vpFREE lunch, sorry, and alone again. At least an old colleague from my former real job is joining me for four days in Laughlin starting 7/29.
   
     Joe Pucek

···

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#25

The people that you are referring to are called "Ploppies". If you had just said that
I would have agreed with you. I doubt that there are a significant number of ploppies on this
forum. If there are any, they are the ones that have wised up and came here in a search for
knowledge.

For a person whose career includes being an instructor and author, and who writes about
inaccuracies in great detail I am really surprised at the lack of clarity in your previous post.

Regards

A.P.

···

--- Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@compdance.com> wrote:

  I was referring to players who play $20 through the machine on,
say, Double Double Bonus. If that doesn't create anything good, they try
$20 on Deuces Wild. If that doesn't work, they try $20 on Jacks or
Better, etc. I was making the point that the players who switch like
this are not doing themselves a favor. Looking for a hot machine today
is not a path to winning. If they wish to win, they should concentrate
on the game that returns the most.

  I do understand that my "customer base," as you call it, is made
up of non-professional players who do all sorts of things that
professional players don't. My post was intended to instruct such
people. It was directed against no specific person.

Bob Dancer

#26

Video poker is played one hand at a time.

Anytime you deviate from Max-EV strategy when playing
any hand, you thereby decrease your EV.

vpFae

···

On 20 Jul 2007 at 1:47, npf15251 wrote:

The key is amount of play. Long term, yes, the Jacks "tortoise" beats
the DDB "hare" every time. But on any given day, rules about EV can
have less meaning. When a player hits on 9/6 Triple Double Bonus, for
example, what do you say? "Well, you got lucky TODAY, but the math
says you'll be a long-term loser?" He/she probably isn't listening
and would respond while counting the winnings that short-term luck
beat the long-term math anyway.

Players like Bob Dancer play more hands more quickly and more
accurately than the average Joe on this website. Of course they want
only the best game in any situation. But unless you aspire to
play that much and at that level, simply hold your queen/ten and be
happy with your outcome. Because in the shorter run, luck is just as
important as "perfect play" any day.

#27

I would like to thank Bob Dancer for all he has done to help us
players. I have several of his Strategy Cards, which are great. I live
in NJ, and mostly play in AC and CT, but in our 2 trips per year to LV,
we always try to get to Bob's class of the week. Bob - I am Mrs 'purple
shirt' from the advanced DB class last month. That was a great class,
and helped to clear up some questions we had about the game.
THANKS TO BOB!

Linda

#28

Linda wrote: That was a great class, and helped to clear up some
questions we had about the game.

Thank you. For those interested, the classes this coming Tuesday are
both high-variance games. At 10 a.m. is Triple Deuces and at noon is 9/7
Triple Double Bonus.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

#29

Although your post is accurate, vpFae. I think I must have
missed the point that you were trying to make.

The level of decrease in EV relates directly with your level
of deviation (from max EV strategy). Most of us play with
'some' level of deviation (from absolute 'perfect' play) and we
are happy with the small, insignificant decrease in EV.

···

On 7/21/07, vpFae <vpFae@cox.net> wrote:

Video poker is played one hand at a time.

Anytime you deviate from Max-EV strategy when playing
any hand, you thereby decrease your EV.

vpFae

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#30

Curtis, I also must have missed something because I couldn't quite
put vpfae's statement into perspective either. However, I often skip
over some posts so I thought it was just me.

In addition, although vpfae's statement is "mostly" correct, it is
not "always" correct. I get a chance a couple times a month to play
for 1% CB. Clearly, a few minor errors will have less impact on my EV
than will playing slowly to avoid these errors.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@...> wrote:

Although your post is accurate, vpFae. I think I must have
missed the point that you were trying to make.

The level of decrease in EV relates directly with your level
of deviation (from max EV strategy). Most of us play with
'some' level of deviation (from absolute 'perfect' play) and we
are happy with the small, insignificant decrease in EV.

On 7/21/07, vpFae <vpFae@...> wrote:
>
> Video poker is played one hand at a time.
>
> Anytime you deviate from Max-EV strategy when playing
> any hand, you thereby decrease your EV.
>
> vpFae

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#31

This ties in to a previous thread regarding the short lived 5X points
at MonteLago. Dan, I actually need to thank you. I used to go to CML
once a week. Long roundtrip, but a great break from the far west part
of the valley. Then CML started offering the 5X points. You, and other
(included the guy with the slick, combed back hair) basically decided
to "burn-out" the promotion, especially on the Spin Pokers. I clearly
recall driving all the way there with afriend of mine and neither of
got to play one SP machine. Meanwhile, the slick haired guy was
compiling W-2G every few minutes. And that was the last time I was at
CML. Since then, the CML mailers offer a %X coupon, but exempt SP
machines from the promotion.

Regardless, you have saved me a lot of gasoline money since my last
visit to CML. I miss Sherry and Melinda the waitresses, but that is
about it. My other memory of the place was seeing an empty craps table
with a $10 minimum. My friend and I suggested we would play if it was
reduced to $5. Request denied.

I hope they go out of business.

If I wasnt trying to make money playing video poker, Id LOVE to be
player like Reyer! As it is, Im enough like you and Reyer than Bob
Dancer would tolerate! BTW, you know you and Mr. Grimm, I mean

Mickey

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "shortpaydan" <shortpaydan@...> wrote:

Crimm are my favorite foils in this group! lol

-dan

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@> wrote:
>
> Wow. Dan, you certainly say what you feel; and I don't say that
> lightly. Maybe I am a player like Reyer.

#32

Then CML started offering the 5X points. You, and other

(included the guy with the slick, combed back hair) basically

decided

to "burn-out" the promotion, especially on the Spin Pokers. I

clearly

recall driving all the way there with afriend of mine and neither of
got to play one SP machine. Meanwhile, the slick haired guy was
compiling W-2G every few minutes. And that was the last time I was

at

CML.

Your very welcome! Im truly glad you saved gas money but even more

glad about all the money I won during the 5Xpromo! Look, its getting
old how people confuse burning out a play versus taking gobs of money
the casino is practicaly giving away. Yes, thats what I wrote. CML was
essentialy handing out money and Im not one to decline free moolah.
Evrey human being in the civilized world was aware of the
5Xpts./drawing combo last summer at CML. Its not my fault you nor most
of the BDC fleas who frequent this forum didnt have the bankroll to
take adavantage of this 100$/Hr. oppurtunity. Its also not the slick
haired guy's fault that the imbecilic marketing guy at CML provided
that oppotunity in the first place! Next time you stumble apon a great
play no one knows about, keep it to yourself. Dont post it here, dont
tell 20 people, dont say a word. Then maybe me and my greased
haired 'buddy' wont burn it down. Unless of course I wander by and
recognize you as a knowlegable player. Then Im gonna set that 50cent
FPJW 4700 RF spin poker deluxe ablaze just as soon as you get off it!

-Dan

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Charles" <fromthevault@...> wrote:

#33

The key is amount of play. Long term, yes, the Jacks "tortoise" beats
the DDB "hare" every time. But on any given day, rules about EV can
have less meaning. When a player hits on 9/6 Triple Double Bonus, for
example, what do you say? "Well, you got lucky TODAY, but the math
says you'll be a long-term loser?" He/she probably isn't listening
and would respond while counting the winnings that short-term luck
beat the long-term math anyway.

Players like Bob Dancer play more hands more quickly and more
accurately than the average Joe on this website. Of course they want
only the best game in any situation. But unless you aspire to
play that much and at that level, simply hold your queen/ten and be
happy with your outcome. Because in the shorter run, luck is just as
important as "perfect play" any day.

vpFae replied:

Video poker is played one hand at a time.

Anytime you deviate from Max-EV strategy when playing any hand,
you thereby decrease your EV. <<<<

Curtis Rich replied:

Although your post is accurate, vpFae. I think I must have

missed the point that you were trying to make. <<<

I was responding to a post which inferred that an incorrect
strategy may be OK for a limited amount of play but wouldn't be
OK for an extended amount of play.

My point is that one's EV, shorter or longer term, is a function
of how they play each hand, and that the short term importance of
luck isn't a good reason to be less concerned about the
correctness of the strategy used.

The level of decrease in EV relates directly with your level

of deviation (from max EV strategy). <<<

I agree.

Most of us play with 'some' level of deviation (from absolute

'perfect' play) and we are happy with the small, insignificant
decrease in EV. <<<

I agree. There are many good reasons to deviate from Max-EV
strategy, but one's expected length of play (session or lifetime)
isn't one of them - at least, not because of short term luck
cinsiderations.

mroejacks replied:

Curtis, I also must have missed something because I couldn't

quite put vpfae's statement into perspective either. However, I
often skip over some posts so I thought it was just me. <<

I also skip over some posts.

In addition, although vpfae's statement is "mostly" correct,

it is not "always" correct. I get a chance a couple times a month
to play for 1% CB. Clearly, a few minor errors will have less
impact on my EV than will playing slowly to avoid these errors. <<

You're reading something into my post that isn't there. It was a
tautologous statement on the play of a single hand, and it is
"always" correct.

vpFae

···

On 20 Jul 2007 at 1:47, npf15251 wrote: