vpFREE2 Forums

Casino Smoke

I spent Saturday afternoon and evening in the Rampart Casino
yesterday. It's one of the better casinos I think, smoke wise, but
it was sure bad anyway ... I ended up with stinking clothes and a
raspy throat.

It seems unlikely anything will be done to prevent casino smoking for
the forseeable future, at least in Las Vegas. My concern is not
myself ... nobody forces me to go there. But I can't help but wonder
what is happening to the people who work in these places, day in and
day out! It's not pretty.

A few years ago I had a thought ... why not put smoke filters inside
the machines ... to draw in the smokey air and run it through a
filter and back into the room. I checked the US Patent Office to see
if this idea was patented. It was (precisely), several years ago. I
am surprised IGT hasn't incorporated this feature ... it seems like
an obvious thing to do.

It seems unlikely anything will be done to prevent casino smoking

for the forseeable future, at least in Las Vegas. My concern is not

myself ... nobody forces me to go there. But I can't help but

wonder what is happening to the people who work in these places, day
in and day out! It's not pretty.

What amazes me is that for so long, the act of smoking in public has
been ACCEPTABLE in societal as well as legal terms. Shouldn't
walking around in public, spewing nauseating fumes that sicken
anyone who gets even the slightest whiff of them, be illegal, for
the same reasons that urinating, screaming at the top of one's
lungs, having sex, etc. IN PUBLIC are all deemed unacceptable and
illegal behaviors, simply because of their capacity to offend? Why
did cigarette smoke have to be subjected to the far more rigorous
test of being UNHEALTHY for you before it started to be banned? The
answer is obvious---the multibillion-dollar tobacco lobby.

There's a sound analogy--in the 70's (and before), smokestack
polluters were a major concern and a prime target of environmental
legislation. The key concept that reinforced antipollution
legislation was that by dumping their waste out the back door, as it
were, manufacturers were unfairly passing part of the cost of
producing their products onto the public at large. If you produce X
amount of pollutants in the course of manufacturing a widget, then
the cost of proper disposal of those pollutants is a cost that
should be borne directly by the manufacturer.

In a similar fashion, if you choose to smoke cigarettes, you are
effectively exchanging some portion of your life for the pleasure
you get by smoking (plus the cost of the cigarettes themselves, of
course). Now, if you smoke where anyone who doesn't smoke can smell
it, you are inflicting displeasure on that person as an added cost
of obtaining YOUR pleasure. That person's displeasure will be a
function of his or her proximity to you as well as his sensitivity
to the smoke, but it's safe to say that if you smoke in public, you
WILL annoy and disgust a certain amount of people. So you are
obtaining pleasure at the cost of making someone else uncomfortable
(never mind SICK; I don't think that cigarette smoke needs to be
proved unhealthy to be unacceptable).

I think that the fundamental rule governing human activity in our
society is that you can do what you want as long as you don't
interfere with anyone ELSE's ability to do what THEY want. This
extends to: you cannot cause another person pain, mental or
physical, or deliberately obstruct another person in his attempt to
conduct his business.

So returning to the cigarette smoker: How does he handle the fact
(incontrovertible) that when he lights up, he is going to sicken and
irritate a certain portion of the people around him?
1. "F***'em." (Indifference; callousness)
2. "I have the right to smoke" (countering my argument, above, by
saying, in effect, that "my" rights outweigh all of "yours")
3. "I NEED to smoke" (often not consciously voiced, but a definite
feeling that feeding one's compulsive addiction should give a person
priority over others' discomfort)
4. "It isn't THAT bad" (deliberately understating the effect that
cigarette smoke has on the surrounding environment, in an attempt to
rationalize it)
I'm afraid all of these tactics are bankrupt. Nevertheless, if a
smoker wants to maintain any shred of self-image, he HAS to use one
of the above excuses.

I just am certain that if a person is that careless of the health
and well-being of the persons around him, then he or she is an unfit
member of society. We sanction and soemtimes imprison those
individuals who indulge their pleasures and/or addictions at the
cost of society in general. The only reason we don't regard public
smoking as criminal behavior is that so many huge corporations
profit directly from it. It's sort of like: if ammunition
manufacturers started a massive ad campaign for people to celebrate
happy occasions by firing automatic weapons into the air (like they
do in the nuttier parts of the Middle East), in an attempt to boost
bullet sales, I'm SURE, with a few billion dollars spread
judiciously around, we could get all those silly municipal laws
prohibiting weapons discharge wiped off the books. After all, I own
a gun. Don't I have the right to fire it, as long as it's not
pointed at anybody? Don't I have the right to smoke, as long as I
don't bother to acknowledge or identify the people whom it affects?

A few years ago I had a thought ... why not put smoke filters

inside the machines ... to draw in the smokey air and run it through
a filter and back into the room.

Then some poor bastard would have to go around periodically, opening
the machines and changing the filters. A disgusting job at best.
This would be another case of the cost of smoking being passed on to
another person who doesn't deserve the burden. Consider what the
casinos already spend to cope with smokers: complex air filtration
systems, an army of porters whose sole job, it seems at times, is to
clean up cigarette debris; higher insurance rates, etc. etc. I doubt
that the casinos would retrofit their machines and then create a
whole new position of "machine filter cleaner" whose status, both
esthetically and socially, would be two or three rungs below the guy
who cleans the toilets.

BTW, shouldn't a nonsmoking casino better be able to offer fullpay
games, given its lower costs? Or is the sad truth that a majority of
the "lemmings" (those people who play VP badly enough to subsidize
the rest of us) are also smokers, and if you eliminate the smokers,
you eliminate too many of the lemmings?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@y...> wrote:

Shouldn't

walking around in public, spewing nauseating fumes
that sicken
anyone who gets even the slightest whiff of them, be
illegal, for
the same reasons that urinating, screaming at the
top of one's
lungs, having sex, etc. IN PUBLIC are all deemed
unacceptable and
illegal behaviors, simply because of their capacity
to offend? Why
did cigarette smoke have to be subjected to the far
more rigorous
test of being UNHEALTHY for you before it started to
be banned? The
answer is obvious---the multibillion-dollar tobacco
lobby.

I have no problem with smokers. The smell of smoke
doesn't bother me at all. I quit smoking 28 years ago
and I know how hard it is to quit.
What I do have a problem with is drinkers. I don't
like the smell of alcohol. It sickens me and the more
people drink the closer they get to you when they
speak. Too much drinking causes obnoxious behavior
and risks the lives of everyone on the highway when
they drive.
Another multibillion dollar industry?

Dan

···

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:

What amazes me is that for so long, the act of smoking in public has
been ACCEPTABLE in societal as well as legal terms. (snip long

dissertation)>

BTW, shouldn't a nonsmoking casino better be able to offer fullpay
games, given its lower costs? Or is the sad truth that a majority

of the "lemmings" (those people who play VP badly enough to subsidize

the rest of us) are also smokers, and if you eliminate the smokers,
you eliminate too many of the lemmings?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Well Mr. Rock, you've managed to come up with an opinion that I
actually agree with 100%. And I grew up in a house with a parent who
smoked. But I couldn't stand the smell of cigarette smoke then, and
I dislike it even more now.

Just as a casual, unscientific observation, when I was growing up in
the 60s one would see people smoking everywhere. At any public place
it seemed like almost all of the adults were puffing away. When I
first went to work, smoking was still allowed in the office at my
workplace. Looking back on this now, it's hard to imagine a business
office filled with cigarette smoke, but that was S.O.P. back then.
Today, you just don't see all that many people smoking in public,
that is UNTIL you set foot in a casino. Then there are people
smoking all over the place. There must be some correlation between
smoking, drinking, and gambling. And yes, casinos are worried that
they would lose too many gamblers if they did not allow smoking.
Casinos aren't going to ban smoking unless they are forced to by law.

EE

And yes, casinos are worried that

they would lose too many gamblers if they did not allow smoking.
Casinos aren't going to ban smoking unless they are forced to by

law.

EE

I read once (cannot verify accuracy) that 30 percent of the
population smoke and that 50 percent of casino patrons smoke.

If I am getting "smoked out", I usually ask the person to try and
not let the smoke come my way. I have had some say that they have
the right to smoke in the casino. I say yes, but you do not have
the right to let it blow on me. This usually resolves the issue,
but had on guy start to cuss me out and I actually feared that he
was going to hit me. I pointed to the eye in the sky and said that
what ever he did was going to be on video. He left.

DWK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter" <eecounter@h...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote

> So returning to the cigarette smoker: How does he handle the fact

(incontrovertible) that when he lights up, he is going to sicken

and

irritate a certain portion of the people around him?
1. "F***'em." (Indifference; callousness)
2. "I have the right to smoke" (countering my argument, above, by
saying, in effect, that "my" rights outweigh all of "yours")
3. "I NEED to smoke" (often not consciously voiced, but a definite
feeling that feeding one's compulsive addiction should give a

person

···

priority over others' discomfort)
4. "It isn't THAT bad" (deliberately understating the effect that
cigarette smoke has on the surrounding environment

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Rock, I agree with you 100%
I have found that, among the "rude" smokers that #1. prevails. Not
only are they indifferent, they are outright beligerent, and take
great pleasure in delibrately spewing their noxious fumes in your
face. They usually have a foul smelling smudgepot burning, with a 6
inch ash hanging precariously off of the end, while they pound away
at the vp buttons with the SAME hand that's holding the cigarette.
I have had the ashes from one of these pigs land in my lap! Asking
politely for them to stop waving the cigarette in your direction is
generally futile and usually results in some form of #2. being
yelled in your direction. Men & women are equally to blame. This
is not a gender issue. I usually just move to a different machine,
after silently putting a curse on their machine.
NOT ALL SMOKERS ARE RUDE. I have actually been ASKED if minded if
they lit up. In those instances, I always reply that it's fine as
long as the smoke doesn't blow in my face. Usually, they don't
light up after this. I really appreciate their courtesy, and only
wish the best for them, including the ability to escape this deathly
addiction.
I was a 3 pack a day addict myself, for more than 30 years. After
watching my mother die slowly and painfully from lung cancer, I quit
cold turkey, almost 20 years ago. It was the hardest thing I've ever
done, but I'm happy everyday, that I was able to overcome this
hideous addiction. I can only wish the same success to the rest of
the smoking population.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

BTW, shouldn't a nonsmoking casino better be able to offer fullpay
games, given its lower costs?

                snip
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Unfortunately, Rock, quite the OPPOSITE is true. I have been in
casinos in almost every state in the USA, and many overseas as well.
In almost every instance, a very limited number of inferior pay
schedule vps, are available in non-smoking sections. BTW, I have
also had to call casino personnel, on occasion, to eject the
ultimate rude smoker, who insists on smoking in the non-smoking
section, after having that fact pointed out. There should be a
special punishment for those idiots!

Anyway, I see no solution to this problem, other than staying away
from casinos, which I refuse to do. Playing vp is one of my joys,
and I guess I will continue to endure the stink, the smoke, and the
ensuing sore, raspy throat, until this abomination is banned from
all indoor space.

Babe

annoying. But, unless in their drunken stupor, they run you over,
they are not endangering your health. They are only ruining their
own health and lives. In this case unless they are actively
bothering you, or they are driving a vehicle (in which case I would
impose the longest possible hard jail-time) I think they should be
left to their own miserable devices until they pass out, and are
attended to by security.

  Babe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Dan Elmore <zelmo41@y...> wrote:

>
I have no problem with smokers. The smell of smoke
doesn't bother me at all. I quit smoking 28 years ago
and I know how hard it is to quit.
What I do have a problem with is drinkers. I don't
like the smell of alcohol. It sickens me and the more
people drink the closer they get to you when they
speak. Too much drinking causes obnoxious behavior
and risks the lives of everyone on the highway when
they drive.
Another multibillion dollar industry?

Dan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't like drunks either. I find them both embarrasing and

who cares about drinking in casinos. the so called smell of alcohol is not going to give you cancer and kill you like the second hand smoke.

>
I have no problem with smokers. The smell of smoke
doesn't bother me at all. I quit smoking 28 years ago
and I know how hard it is to quit.
What I do have a problem with is drinkers. I don't
like the smell of alcohol. It sickens me and the more
people drink the closer they get to you when they
speak. Too much drinking causes obnoxious behavior
and risks the lives of everyone on the highway when
they drive.
Another multibillion dollar industry?

Dan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't like drunks either. I find them both embarrasing and

annoying. But, unless in their drunken stupor, they run you over,
they are not endangering your health. They are only ruining their
own health and lives. In this case unless they are actively
bothering you, or they are driving a vehicle (in which case I would
impose the longest possible hard jail-time) I think they should be
left to their own miserable devices until they pass out, and are
attended to by security.

Babe

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

jackessiebabe <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com> wrote:--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Dan Elmore wrote:

If you really believe the propaganda that second hand
smoke will kill you, then by all means stay away from
casinos. However, there is little scientific data to
support the theory that second hand smoke kills. It
is mostly politicians with no issues to hold on to
that think they can get people agitated with this
issue. (They are blowing smoke).

--- maria atkinson <lasvegasmaria@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

···

who cares about drinking in casinos. the so called
smell of alcohol is not going to give you cancer and
kill you like the second hand smoke.

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/3_9.htm

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Elmore" <zelmo41@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Casino Smoke

If you really believe the propaganda that second hand
smoke will kill you, then by all means stay away from
casinos. However, there is little scientific data to
support the theory that second hand smoke kills. It
is mostly politicians with no issues to hold on to
that think they can get people agitated with this
issue. (They are blowing smoke).

If you really believe the propaganda that second hand
smoke will kill you, then by all means stay away from
casinos. However, there is little scientific data to
support the theory that second hand smoke kills. It
is mostly politicians with no issues to hold on to
that think they can get people agitated with this
issue. (They are blowing smoke)

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Dan Elmore <zelmo41@y...> wrote:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good heavens, do you really BELIEVE what you have written? Or has
the nicotine affected your brain as well as your lungs?

In this day and age, anyone who doesn't believe that 2nd hand smoke
is dangerous to life and health, must live a grayish (tinged by
smoke) dreamworld.

And, BTW, I have NO intention of staying out of casinos so you can
smoke guilt-free. YES, if you are blowing 2nd second-hand smoke
on other hapless vp players, you should feel plenty guilty. And I
rather suspect you are, or you wouldn't be quite so defensive on the
subject. Anyway, I suggest that you continue to enjoy your coffin-
nails to your heart's content, just keep them out of my face!

http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/3_9.htm

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sylvia" <sgosline@e...> wrote:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Atta girl, Sylvia. You go girl!

Babe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Elmore" <zelmo41@y...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Casino Smoke

> If you really believe the propaganda that second hand
> smoke will kill you, then by all means stay away from
> casinos. However, there is little scientific data to
> support the theory that second hand smoke kills. It
> is mostly politicians with no issues to hold on to
> that think they can get people agitated with this
> issue. (They are blowing smoke).
>

I have read many of these same NCI reports, but it is
difficult to get the actual data from which these
conclusions have been drawn.
The data I have seen is not sufficient enough in most
industries to draw the conclusions that they report.

···

--- Sylvia <sgosline@earthlink.net> wrote:

http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/3_9.htm
>

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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
<snip>

In this day and age, anyone who doesn't believe that 2nd hand smoke
is dangerous to life and health, must live a grayish (tinged by
smoke) dreamworld.

Like many "beliefs", this is not supported by evidence. It is not
even supported by logic. The concentrations of noxious gases and
particulates are tremendously diluted even from a distance of 2 to 3
feet from the point of exhalation. While there is well documented
statistical evidence that inhaling primary smoke is frequently
deleterious to the smoker's health (that's why I don't do it), there
is no such correlation for second hand smoke.

If you REALLY believed that it was DANGEROUS to your life and health
you would not voluntarily place yourself in harms way. Or is your
compulsion to gamble so great that you risk your life to satisfy the
compulsion? In actuality, you know that it is not dangerous to your
life but rather an annoyance. One among many.

There is not one person among the 3680 members of this group who
will, as a result of any message posted here, change their mind about
this subject. It is simply a means to get PO'd and vent your anger.
Enjoy.

If you really believe the propaganda that second hand
smoke will kill you, then by all means stay away from
casinos.

Ah yes. The evil pro-smoke propagandists. Cut from the same cloth as
those charlatans who try to convince us that rat poison is bad for
you (when in reality it is the perfect gourmet condiment), that
nitroglycerin is dangerous, and that nuclear waste is bad for you
(when it actually cures skin disease and gives you that healthy
glow).

  However, there is little scientific data to

support the theory that second hand smoke kills.

Other than the millions of people who have contracted fatal
diseases, such as lung cancer and emphysema, that are associated
with smoking, yet have never smoked a cigarette in their lives, and
who live in close proximity to a smoker.

It is mostly politicians with no issues to hold on to

that think they can get people agitated with this
issue. (They are blowing smoke).

I'd like to disillusion you: it doesn't take a politician to get
someone upset over having stink blown in his face every time he
enters a public place, tries to enjoy a restaurant meal, etc. Most
people HATE (NOT "dislike") pigarette smoke.

And BTW, Dan my man, even if the Surgeon-General concluded that
secondhand smoke actually promotes longevity, heals unsightly
blemishes, and enhances your sex life, I STILL would hate that
stinking cloud that wafts my way, and guess what? Because of THAT
ALONE, I would have every right to object to it.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Dan Elmore <zelmo41@y...> wrote:

> In this day and age, anyone who doesn't believe that 2nd hand

smoke is dangerous to life and health, must live a grayish (tinged
by smoke) dreamworld.

Like many "beliefs", this is not supported by evidence. It is not
even supported by logic.

Don't use rhetorical devices to support a faulty premise. The
statement would have meant the same thing had she said "think"
or "feel" instead of "believe".

The concentrations of noxious gases and

particulates are tremendously diluted even from a distance of 2 to

3 feet from the point of exhalation.

Horseshit. Using my analog odor detecting device (my nose), I can
tell you that the smell is VERY strong up to 30 or 40 feet away. YOU
can't tell one way or the other, since you are obviously a smoker,
and lost YOUR sense of smell when you took up the habit. This is one
of the arguments I constantly hear from smokers to defend
themselves. Using THEIR atrophied sense of smell, pigarettes don't
smell all that bad to them. But asking a smoker if something smells
bad is like asking a deaf person if the TV is too loud.

While there is well documented

statistical evidence that inhaling primary smoke is frequently
deleterious to the smoker's health (that's why I don't do it),

there is no such correlation for second hand smoke.

None, other than the miilions of cases of smoke-related diseases
contracted by nonsmokers who work in an environment where others
smoke.
And BTW, if you don't accept this "correlation", what "correlation"
would you accept? People who smoke get sick and die at a greater
rate than people who don't smoke. People who live and work near
smokers get sick and die at a greater rate than those who don't. DUH!

If you REALLY believed that it was DANGEROUS to your life and

health you would not voluntarily place yourself in harms way.

Another piece of illogic. We all make tradeoffs. Driving a car is
DANGEROUS, yet we choose to do it. We enter public places where
there are pigarette smokers because to not do so would be to force
ourselves to stay out of restaurants, bars, casinos, most public
entertainment venues, etc. etc. etc. We don't LIKE the risk that
smokers impose on us, but for the most part, we endure them if the
price of safety is to withdraw from public life. It is profoundly
unfair that smokers force us to inhale their airborne excrement as a
price of doing the things we enjoy, such as gambling in a casino. I
think that the United States will gradually follow California's lead
in making it a crime to smoke in a public place (as well it SHOULD
be), because it is logical and moral to make it illegal to
deliberately cause harm to others.

Or is your compulsion to gamble so great that you risk your life to
satisfy the> compulsion? In actuality, you know that it is not
dangerous to your life but rather an annoyance. One among many.

If it indeed was ONLY an annoyance, SOLELY an annoyance, then what
makes you think that you would have any greater right to inflict it
on others?

There is not one person among the 3680 members of this group who
will, as a result of any message posted here, change their mind

about this subject.

Actually, if even one smoker pauses for thought about his or her
public smoking behavior, it will have been time well spent. If it
causes even one non-smoker to stand up for his or her rights and
become less accomodating to pigarette smokers, it will have been
time well spent.

It is simply a means to get PO'd and vent your anger. Enjoy.

Ah, yes. We get annoyed at pigarette smokers because we ENJOY being
annoyed. Yet another rhetorical device. Sounds like when the
southern slaveholders justified their treatment of slaves: 1. We
beat, abuse, and work them to death. 2. It's a horrible crime and a
sin to do this to other human beings. 3. But we make tons of money.
SO: 4. Blacks aren't really human beings. Ta-da!

Now, here's the smokers' version: 1. Cigarettes are smelly and
messy, and endanger the lives of everyone who inhales their smoke.
2. Gee, I'd better not smoke in public, at least not around other
nonsmokers. 3. But that would mean curtailing my habit! SO: 4.
Cigarette smoke isn't really harmful to others, and those who
complain about it are just lily-livered old ladies. Ta-da!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

> > In this day and age, anyone who doesn't believe that 2nd hand
smoke is dangerous to life and health, must live a grayish (tinged
by smoke) dreamworld.
>
> Like many "beliefs", this is not supported by evidence. It is

not

> even supported by logic.

Don't use rhetorical devices to support a faulty premise. The
statement would have meant the same thing had she said "think"
or "feel" instead of "believe".

The concentrations of noxious gases and
> particulates are tremendously diluted even from a distance of 2

to

3 feet from the point of exhalation.

Horseshit. Using my analog odor detecting device (my nose), I can
tell you that the smell is VERY strong up to 30 or 40 feet away.

YOU

can't tell one way or the other, since you are obviously a smoker,
and lost YOUR sense of smell when you took up the habit. This is

one

of the arguments I constantly hear from smokers to defend
themselves. Using THEIR atrophied sense of smell, pigarettes don't
smell all that bad to them. But asking a smoker if something

smells

bad is like asking a deaf person if the TV is too loud.

While there is well documented
> statistical evidence that inhaling primary smoke is frequently
> deleterious to the smoker's health (that's why I don't do it),
there is no such correlation for second hand smoke.

None, other than the miilions of cases of smoke-related diseases
contracted by nonsmokers who work in an environment where others
smoke.
And BTW, if you don't accept this "correlation",

what "correlation"

would you accept? People who smoke get sick and die at a greater
rate than people who don't smoke. People who live and work near
smokers get sick and die at a greater rate than those who don't.

DUH!

>
> If you REALLY believed that it was DANGEROUS to your life and
health you would not voluntarily place yourself in harms way.

Another piece of illogic. We all make tradeoffs. Driving a car is
DANGEROUS, yet we choose to do it. We enter public places where
there are pigarette smokers because to not do so would be to force
ourselves to stay out of restaurants, bars, casinos, most public
entertainment venues, etc. etc. etc. We don't LIKE the risk that
smokers impose on us, but for the most part, we endure them if the
price of safety is to withdraw from public life. It is profoundly
unfair that smokers force us to inhale their airborne excrement as

a

price of doing the things we enjoy, such as gambling in a casino.

I

think that the United States will gradually follow California's

lead

in making it a crime to smoke in a public place (as well it SHOULD
be), because it is logical and moral to make it illegal to
deliberately cause harm to others.

Or is your compulsion to gamble so great that you risk your life

to

satisfy the> compulsion? In actuality, you know that it is not
dangerous to your life but rather an annoyance. One among many.
>
If it indeed was ONLY an annoyance, SOLELY an annoyance, then what
makes you think that you would have any greater right to inflict

it

on others?

> There is not one person among the 3680 members of this group who
> will, as a result of any message posted here, change their mind
about this subject.

Actually, if even one smoker pauses for thought about his or her
public smoking behavior, it will have been time well spent. If it
causes even one non-smoker to stand up for his or her rights and
become less accomodating to pigarette smokers, it will have been
time well spent.

It is simply a means to get PO'd and vent your anger. Enjoy.

Ah, yes. We get annoyed at pigarette smokers because we ENJOY

being

annoyed. Yet another rhetorical device. Sounds like when the
southern slaveholders justified their treatment of slaves: 1. We
beat, abuse, and work them to death. 2. It's a horrible crime and

a

sin to do this to other human beings. 3. But we make tons of

money.

···

SO: 4. Blacks aren't really human beings. Ta-da!

Now, here's the smokers' version: 1. Cigarettes are smelly and
messy, and endanger the lives of everyone who inhales their smoke.
2. Gee, I'd better not smoke in public, at least not around other
nonsmokers. 3. But that would mean curtailing my habit! SO: 4.
Cigarette smoke isn't really harmful to others, and those who
complain about it are just lily-livered old ladies. Ta-da!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Rock, THANK YOU. You answered every egregious statement with humor
and good sense.

You are my hero of the day.

I hope you get TWO Royals today for your trouble. And, I hope that
soon, we'll all be able to gamble in smoke-free casinos!

Babe

rockofjello wrote:
"Using THEIR atrophied sense of smell, pigarettes don't smell all
that bad to them. But asking a smoker if something smells bad is like
asking a deaf person if the TV is too loud."

I used to laugh when Kevin L used the term 'pigarette'. Welcome back,
Kev....oh, wait, you're not KL.

Anyone care to set the over/under on when Rock breaks out the
term "Megatoilet"?

Just giving you grief KL....um Rock. Sorry :wink: Glad to have you back,
regardless of the name behind the posts.

Subject to good taste, there aren't any off-limit topics on
vpFREE, but IMO there's not much point in devoting a lot of
ink to some controversial subjects, such as smoking.

As a general rule in these instances, it will be appreciated
if things are kept objective, non-personal, and
non-argumentative, and if participants will consolidate their
views in a single post.

vpFREE Administrator

The fact is that the Casino's recognize our right to smoke if we wish, and your rights to not smoke if you wish. They do this by providing seperate smoking and non-smoking areas. If a smoker is smoking in the non-smoking area he deserves to be ejected. That is if he is AWARE that he is in a non-smoking area. And if a non-smoker is in the smoking area then they have no right to complain about the smoke, ashes, smell, etc....

I was in the Taj on my last trip and sitting in the non-smoking section, only I didn't know it. There was an ashtray next to my machine (a used one) so I fired up and was playing and having a really good time. When I was leaving I noticed the no smoking sign. I regretted that...all somebody would have had to do is say "Excuse me, but do you know this is a no smoking area?" and I would have extinguished my butt immediately. I try to be as compassionate as I can, but in an area where smoking is allowed....it's allowed. If you don't like it you'll have to go someplace where it isn't allowed.

If you really believe the propaganda that second hand
smoke will kill you, then by all means stay away from
casinos. However, there is little scientific data to
support the theory that second hand smoke kills. It
is mostly politicians with no issues to hold on to
that think they can get people agitated with this
issue. (They are blowing smoke).

--- maria atkinson <lasvegasmaria@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

···

Dan Elmore <zelmo41@yahoo.com> wrote:

who cares about drinking in casinos. the so called
smell of alcohol is not going to give you cancer and
kill you like the second hand smoke.

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