July 27/28 I was at Bogata. As I write this I'm licking my usual
wounds from a hammering at V/P. Bob Dancer was giving free seminars 2
x each of those days. Didn't see him play any vp. I played 8-10 hours
in high limit room each day. I e mailed him (again)to convey I'm
convinced the machines in A/C have secondary programming or otherwise
nepherious results. Reason being : A/C control commission doesn't
recognize v/p machine from other 'slot' machines. Vegas there is a
seperate law for games of skill (VP). Too many peculiar instances of
discarding a card and same value, albeit different suit returns way
too many times to be 'random'. It doesn't play or feel right and with
the contol commission rules being what they are ;obscene profits by
the casino's, why wouldn't they 'rig' the games. Look, I know a lot
of you are thinking I'm a sore loser. Money is not the point. Those
vp machines in AC are slots,(NJCCC own admission) or should I say
wolves, in video poker clothing. I for one have never seen a royal
flush won by anyone on $1 and up games. The usual $1250 taxable
payouts occur occaisionally on DDB and I have also won that amount.
Never seen or heard of any royals on $1 game $4000/ $2- $8000 etc.
Yes I 95%time play JB, rarily DDB for a thrill. I practice(winpoker)
and play very well and have the startegy cards if Im not sure, I'm
not afraid to use em. Cards draw no suspicion from mngt because they
know they're getting their hold cause the machines are SLOTS. I just
dont like them B.S.ing people that the (example) 9/6 is the hold. BTW-
Dancer says "they're fair" he didn't agree or disagree that he played
at Borgata or anywhere else in AC. As his book state, Dancer will not
play when he doesn't have the advantage. Why the heck then is he
giving seminars to people who dont stand a chance.Disclaimer: This is
my opinion only and my wife, not a fact that I can prove, my dogs,
cats, government, employer, vp troll or any others.
Borgata and Bob Dancer
I've hit royals at both the $1 and $2 levels -- at the Borgata and at other casinos in AC. Hell, I've even hit a $1 royal on 2 occasions at Harrah's AC, which, if anyplace was going to "fix" a machine I'd say that was it.
However, that being said, with regards to Bob Dancer -- I firmly believe that if what he had to say was really a formula for success at VP, that the Borgata wouldn't be presenting him in an official capacity.
*shrug* My opinion only, of course, but there it is.
Duh, 'cause Borgata is paying him?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "babytea100" <babytea100@y...> wrote:
July 27/28 I was at Bogata. As I write this I'm licking my usual
wounds from a hammering at V/P. Bob Dancer was giving free seminars
2 x each of those days. Didn't see him play any vp.<SNIP>
As his book state, Dancer will not play when he doesn't have the
advantage. Why the heck then is he giving seminars to people who
dont stand a chance.
Last time in AC(Borgata) I hit an $8000 royal playing
9/6 just outside the high limit room on the leftmost
machine.And I have pics to prove it 
Steve Bork
···
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Dancer says "they're fair" he didn't agree or disagree that he played
at Borgata or anywhere else in AC. As his book state, Dancer will not
play when he doesn't have the advantage. Why the heck then is he
giving seminars to people who dont stand a chance.Disclaimer: This is
my opinion only and my wife, not a fact that I can prove, my dogs,
cats, government, employer, vp troll or any others.
I'm up $17K at Borgata last two years playing break even stuff. This
includes dropping close to $5K playing $1 All American, and missing
out on that 160% or so play where the quarter AC Joker progressive was
badly misset, paying 4000 coins for any SF.
Not sure why we're bothing with Borgata jackpot anecdotes ...
in light of the original post such stories couldn't come from anyone
other than a paid shill (likely on the same payroll as the NJCCC).
- H.
I have had the same experience in Borgata and I am
glad that you pointed our these odd results on draws.
I thought I was tired and missed something, but my
wife witnessed this happening and it was common
occurence where you get the same card you discarded
returned to you on draw.
···
--- babytea100 <babytea100@yahoo.com> wrote:
July 27/28 I was at Bogata. As I write this I'm
licking my usual
wounds from a hammering at V/P. Bob Dancer was
giving free seminars 2
x each of those days. Didn't see him play any vp. I
played 8-10 hours
in high limit room each day. I e mailed him
(again)to convey I'm
convinced the machines in A/C have secondary
programming or otherwise
nepherious results. Reason being : A/C control
commission doesn't
recognize v/p machine from other 'slot' machines.
Vegas there is a
seperate law for games of skill (VP). Too many
peculiar instances of
discarding a card and same value, albeit different
suit returns way
too many times to be 'random'. It doesn't play or
feel right and with
the contol commission rules being what they are
;obscene profits by
the casino's, why wouldn't they 'rig' the games.
Look, I know a lot
of you are thinking I'm a sore loser. Money is not
the point. Those
vp machines in AC are slots,(NJCCC own admission) or
should I say
wolves, in video poker clothing. I for one have
never seen a royal
flush won by anyone on $1 and up games. The usual
$1250 taxable
payouts occur occaisionally on DDB and I have also
won that amount.
Never seen or heard of any royals on $1 game $4000/
$2- $8000 etc.
Yes I 95%time play JB, rarily DDB for a thrill. I
practice(winpoker)
and play very well and have the startegy cards if Im
not sure, I'm
not afraid to use em. Cards draw no suspicion from
mngt because they
know they're getting their hold cause the machines
are SLOTS. I just
dont like them B.S.ing people that the (example) 9/6
is the hold. BTW-
Dancer says "they're fair" he didn't agree or
disagree that he played
at Borgata or anywhere else in AC. As his book
state, Dancer will not
play when he doesn't have the advantage. Why the
heck then is he
giving seminars to people who dont stand a
chance.Disclaimer: This is
my opinion only and my wife, not a fact that I can
prove, my dogs,
cats, government, employer, vp troll or any others.
__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com
I'd love to see a documented case of that happening. Next time that happens to you, where you get a card back on the draw, call the CCC. They're right on the casino floor behind the main cage.
···
On Aug 1, 2005, at 9:33 AM, vet wrote:
I have had the same experience in Borgata and I am
glad that you pointed our these odd results on draws.
I thought I was tired and missed something, but my
wife witnessed this happening and it was common
occurence where you get the same card you discarded
returned to you on draw.
> .... it was common
> occurence where you get the same card you discarded
> returned to you on draw.
>I'd love to see a documented case of that happening.
Next time that happens to you, where you get a card
back on the draw, call the CCC. They're right on the
casino floor behind the main cage.
I think the writer's intent is to say they dump a
a card of one suit and got the same card in
another suit. I've also "seen" this happen at what
seems too high a frequency, but tend to agree with
a previous poster that this is simply selective
memory.
I'm pretty sure it's selective memory, too. Which is why I encourage people to go to the CCC when they see something they think is odd with the machines.
For example, my Mother remains convinced that whenever she has a 3 or 4 card draw to something, the "card she needs always comes out on the next hand.. you can't tell me these things aren't fixed!" I sat with her and watched her play on Friday, and she kept pointing it out to me - "See? See? There's my card!" Then I kept pointing out all the times it *didn't* come up, and got yelled at for doing that. 
I usually chalk it up to a certain technical unfamiliarity (indeed, in many cases, a Luddite-like technophobia) inherent in members of that generation. 
But hey, if you REALLY believe that the machines are fixed and aren't drawing cards fairly, you should immediately stop play, get someone to hold the machine, and go bug the CCC boothings. Trust me, they're so stunningly bored sitting there that they'd LOVE to have you as a distraction.
···
I think the writer's intent is to say they dump a
a card of one suit and got the same card in
another suit. I've also "seen" this happen at what
seems too high a frequency, but tend to agree with
a previous poster that this is simply selective
memory.
I'm pretty sure it's selective memory, too.
Which is why I encourage people to go to
the CCC when they see something they think is odd
with the machines.
Sorry John. I didn't get your tounge was planted
firmly in your cheek.
...For example, my Mother remains convinced that whenever she has a
3 or 4 card draw to something, the "card she needs always comes out
on the next hand.. you can't tell me these things aren't fixed!" I
sat with her and watched her play on Friday, and she kept pointing
it out to me - "See? See? There's my card!" Then I kept pointing
out all the times it *didn't* come up, and got yelled at for doing
that. :
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Thomas <jfthomas3@c...> wrote:
----------------------------------------
I hope she yelled really loudly! You deserve it for contradicting
your Mom! (-:
-----------------------------------------
I usually chalk it up to a certain technical unfamiliarity
(indeed, in many cases, a Luddite-like technophobia) inherent in
members of that generation.
----------------------------------------
I also hope she gave you one upside the head, for that remark!
Amazingly, some of us old techno-idiots do quite well, thank-you.
Sometimes even gaining the advantage over you whippersnappers! (-:
Babe
I must tell you that when I was playing at the Bellagio in January, I was
dealt Ac,Kd,Qc,Jc,Tc. I dumped the Kd and up popped the Kc. It was my
first RF. What a thrill.
Ted
···
-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
worldbefree22001
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:38 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Borgata and Bob Dancer
> .... it was common
> occurence where you get the same card you discarded
> returned to you on draw.
>I'd love to see a documented case of that happening.
Next time that happens to you, where you get a card
back on the draw, call the CCC. They're right on the
casino floor behind the main cage.
I think the writer's intent is to say they dump a
a card of one suit and got the same card in
another suit. I've also "seen" this happen at what
seems too high a frequency, but tend to agree with
a previous poster that this is simply selective
memory.
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
I thought that was my problem of selective memory, but
when my wife was watching me play the samething
happened. I also happened to me on other VP machines a
few times that thought was selective memory. I was
there this year and this problem did not appear to be
happening again or it may have bee so infrequent that
I did not notice it. If I would have noticed happening
again, I would make a point not to play there despite
its upscale AC accomodations. This problem occurred
sometimes in 2004 and I attributed it to malfunction
of VP machines till I read the recent post about this
problem.
···
--- John Thomas <jfthomas3@comcast.net> wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's selective memory, too. Which
is why I encourage
people to go to the CCC when they see something they
think is odd
with the machines.For example, my Mother remains convinced that
whenever she has a 3 or
4 card draw to something, the "card she needs always
comes out on the
next hand.. you can't tell me these things aren't
fixed!" I sat with
her and watched her play on Friday, and she kept
pointing it out to
me - "See? See? There's my card!" Then I kept
pointing out all the
times it *didn't* come up, and got yelled at for
doing that.I usually chalk it up to a certain technical
unfamiliarity (indeed,
in many cases, a Luddite-like technophobia) inherent
in members of
that generation.But hey, if you REALLY believe that the machines are
fixed and aren't
drawing cards fairly, you should immediately stop
play, get someone
to hold the machine, and go bug the CCC boothings.
Trust me, they're
so stunningly bored sitting there that they'd LOVE
to have you as a
distraction.> I think the writer's intent is to say they dump a
> a card of one suit and got the same card in
> another suit. I've also "seen" this happen at
what
> seems too high a frequency, but tend to agree with
> a previous poster that this is simply selective
> memory.
__________________________________________________
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vet wrote:
I thought that was my problem of selective memory, but
when my wife was watching me play the same thing
happened. I also happened to me on other VP machines a
few times that thought was selective memory. I was
there this year and this problem did not appear to be
happening again or it may have bee so infrequent that
I did not notice it. If I would have noticed happening
again, I would make a point not to play there despite
its upscale AC accomodations. This problem occurred
sometimes in 2004 and I attributed it to malfunction
of VP machines till I read the recent post about this
problem.
In general, this has roughly a 6% probability of occuring on any one
card draw. Randomness is quirky -- in vp, and in any other natural
phenomenon, very odd (seemingly "non random") sequences happen. And,
the more people who report their experiences (such as in a group as
this), the more probable it is that someone's going to report
something that seems entirely improbable on the surface.
I don't question your report. But it wasn't the consequence of
machine malfunction. Those who've been around the vp block a few
times have stories just as surprising.
- Harry
Let's see. If you have 4 cards to a flush, the probability of hitting one
of the 9 outs in your next deal is 1-(43*42*41*40*39)/(52*51*50*49*48),
i.e. 63%. With selective memory you may forget which 4 cards you
already had, so the probability of being dealt any card of the suit you
were hoping for is 1-(39*38*37*36*35)/(52*51*50*49*48), i.e. close
to 79%.
If you have a 4-card open-ended straight draw, the probability is
1-(44*43*42*41*40)/(52*51*50*49*48), 58%.
If you're dealt suited QJT9 in JoB, beware. There's less than 45%
chance that you'll hit any paying hand, but more than 93% chance
that you'll be dealt one of the missing cards in the next deal, i.e.
more than 50% chance that you'll hit nothing AND that you'll be
dealt one of your outs in the next deal.
JBQ
When you are dealt 4-to-the-flush the odds of catching the fifth flush card
is 1 in 5.222 or 19%.
=1/(47/9)
When a straight is open on both ends there are 8 cards that will complete
the straight. The odds of completing the straight are 1 in 5.875 or 17%.
=1/(47/8)
5-card
···
___________________________________________________________________________
Let's see. If you have 4 cards to a flush, the probability of hitting one
of the 9 outs in your next deal is 1-(43*42*41*40*39)/(52*51*50*49*48),
i.e. 63%. With selective memory you may forget which 4 cards you
already had, so the probability of being dealt any card of the suit you
were hoping for is 1-(39*38*37*36*35)/(52*51*50*49*48), i.e. close
to 79%.
If you have a 4-card open-ended straight draw, the probability is
1-(44*43*42*41*40)/(52*51*50*49*48), 58%.
If you're dealt suited QJT9 in JoB, beware. There's less than 45%
chance that you'll hit any paying hand, but more than 93% chance
that you'll be dealt one of the missing cards in the next deal, i.e.
more than 50% chance that you'll hit nothing AND that you'll be
dealt one of your outs in the next deal.
JBQ
I can't argue with your numbers. But I'll point out that they don't represent
the same thing as mine (mine are the probability that after a 4-card draw
to a flush or an outside straight you get the card you needed in the deal
of the next hand, which happens quite often and can make people believe
that the mahcines are rigges to give you near-misses).
JBQ (just ttrying to clarify his muddy earlier post).
···
On 8/1/05, 5-card <5-card@comcast.net> wrote:
When you are dealt 4-to-the-flush the odds of catching the fifth flush card
is 1 in 5.222 or 19%.
=1/(47/9)When a straight is open on both ends there are 8 cards that will complete
the straight. The odds of completing the straight are 1 in 5.875 or 17%.
=1/(47/8)5-card
I don't think they meant that they got back the "same
card" but that they got back the same denomination but
a different suit. It was stated in a previous post
that this was happening much more often than
statistically justified.
···
--- John Thomas <jfthomas3@comcast.net> wrote:
On Aug 1, 2005, at 9:33 AM, vet wrote:
> I have had the same experience in Borgata and I am
> glad that you pointed our these odd results on
draws.
> I thought I was tired and missed something, but my
> wife witnessed this happening and it was common
> occurence where you get the same card you
discarded
> returned to you on draw.
>I'd love to see a documented case of that happening.
Next time that
happens to you, where you get a card back on the
draw, call the CCC.
They're right on the casino floor behind the main
cage.
I can't argue with your numbers. But I'll point out that they don't
represent
the same thing as mine (mine are the probability that after a 4-card
draw
to a flush or an outside straight you get the card you needed in the
deal
of the next hand, which happens quite often and can make people believe
that the mahcines are rigges to give you near-misses).JBQ (just ttrying to clarify his muddy earlier post).
Lets assume that what you are saying is true… so the casino would
rig the machine to show you the card you needed in a previous hand, in
the next hand so as to piss you off???
and this would benifit the casino in what manor ?
since the deck is reshuffled and dealt as new on each hand and you get
10% of the cards on the new hand, if the card you needed is one of 8
or 9, I believe the odds of it showing up in the next deal are pretty
good. If I were to rig a machine, I certainly wouldnt want to do it
in a way to purposely irritate the person I am cheating.
Jim
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Baptiste Queru <jbqueru@g...> wrote: