vpFREE2 Forums

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

"Whom Do You Trust?"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0125.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0125.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0125.cfm</a>

···

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."

Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?

Neil M.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

"Whom Do You Trust?"

I just want to know, who the hell carries around that kinda cash per day?!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nemartin2002@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
>
> "Whom Do You Trust?"
>
>
Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."

Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?

Neil M.

All I can say is that was one Expensive Vehicle!

I think I'll stick to Public Transit!

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
TIMSPEED
Sent: January-26-11 7:12 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

I just want to know, who the hell carries around that kinda cash per day?!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "Neil"
<nemartin2002@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "vpFREE

Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:

>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
>
> "Whom Do You Trust?"
>
>
Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and

"long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in
the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December
29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody
saying that Joyce was playing again."

Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the

casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final
standing?

Neil M.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would imagine it would have been markers, not cash brought into the casino by Mr. Dancer.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@...> wrote:

I just want to know, who the hell carries around that kinda cash per day?!

The Duke of Fremont Street (google it) carries more than that.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mary Ann" <justmare111@...> wrote:

I would imagine it would have been markers, not cash brought into the casino by Mr. Dancer.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@> wrote:
>
> I just want to know, who the hell carries around that kinda cash per day?!
>

The notion of a casino employee contacting Mr. Dancer is certainly a possibility. But it honestly didn't occur to me.

Instead, I would assume Bob had a few friends around town keep an "eye on things" much the same way you or I would network in watching a specific progressive. It was a precaution since he knew his investment would be significant. Simple as that.

I don't always agree with him. But I do want to commend Mr. Dancer in his article for the honesty in reporting his losses during the event. Most of you understand the math and volatility of video poker. Yet others find a full-pay machine and still incorrectly fantasize that their loss size will somehow mirror that tiny percentage under 100% that the game takes from you long-term.

And then you learn the cold, hard truth that in the short run it just doesn't work that way.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nemartin2002@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
>
> "Whom Do You Trust?"
>
>
Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."

Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?

Neil M.

I don't believe that Bob should have tormented Joyce the way he did. In my opinion it was in very bad form.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: mikeymic
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:02 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nemartin2002@...> wrote:
  >
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
  > >
  > > "Whom Do You Trust?"
  > >
  > >
  > Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."
  >
  > Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?
  >
  > Neil M.

  The notion of a casino employee contacting Mr. Dancer is certainly a possibility. But it honestly didn't occur to me.

  Instead, I would assume Bob had a few friends around town keep an "eye on things" much the same way you or I would network in watching a specific progressive. It was a precaution since he knew his investment would be significant. Simple as that.

  I don't always agree with him. But I do want to commend Mr. Dancer in his article for the honesty in reporting his losses during the event. Most of you understand the math and volatility of video poker. Yet others find a full-pay machine and still incorrectly fantasize that their loss size will somehow mirror that tiny percentage under 100% that the game takes from you long-term.

  And then you learn the cold, hard truth that in the short run it just doesn't work that way.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In Bob's defense I can tell you that his actions are simply par for the course for marathon tournaments of the type he described.

You aren't playing against the casino, you are in direct competition with the other players, and it's basically "all's fair in love and VP tournaments".

We used to use every strong arm tactic in the book and a few that aren't, to win those things. And if you don't do it to the competition, the competition does it to you.

The difference between using the types of tactics Bob used and not, is the difference between winning and losing. Considering $50,000 was on the line, I believe he may have under-reacted.

Try to put yourself in his shoes, with what most people make in a year on the line, and tell me honestly you wouldn't have done the same or worse.

~FK

P.S. For the record I'm not defending Bob specifically, because he's now my radio show co-host. I'm defending marathon tournament players in general, because I happen to be one with 17 first places and 1 second place (when I slow-played so my partner could take first) to my credit. In fact, I have never entered a tournament of this type, if I wasn't 100% sure I or my partner would take first.

Nice guys don't always end up last in life, but they do in VP tournaments.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@...> wrote:

I don't believe that Bob should have tormented Joyce the way he did. In my opinion it was in very bad form.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: mikeymic
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:02 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nemartin2002@> wrote:
  >
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
  > >
  > > "Whom Do You Trust?"
  > >
  > >
  > Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."
  >
  > Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?
  >
  > Neil M.

  The notion of a casino employee contacting Mr. Dancer is certainly a possibility. But it honestly didn't occur to me.

  Instead, I would assume Bob had a few friends around town keep an "eye on things" much the same way you or I would network in watching a specific progressive. It was a precaution since he knew his investment would be significant. Simple as that.

  I don't always agree with him. But I do want to commend Mr. Dancer in his article for the honesty in reporting his losses during the event. Most of you understand the math and volatility of video poker. Yet others find a full-pay machine and still incorrectly fantasize that their loss size will somehow mirror that tiny percentage under 100% that the game takes from you long-term.

  And then you learn the cold, hard truth that in the short run it just doesn't work that way.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To be honest with you; I would not have done what he did.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Frank
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:27 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

  In Bob's defense I can tell you that his actions are simply par for the course for marathon tournaments of the type he described.

  You aren't playing against the casino, you are in direct competition with the other players, and it's basically "all's fair in love and VP tournaments".

  We used to use every strong arm tactic in the book and a few that aren't, to win those things. And if you don't do it to the competition, the competition does it to you.

  The difference between using the types of tactics Bob used and not, is the difference between winning and losing. Considering $50,000 was on the line, I believe he may have under-reacted.

  Try to put yourself in his shoes, with what most people make in a year on the line, and tell me honestly you wouldn't have done the same or worse.

  ~FK

  P.S. For the record I'm not defending Bob specifically, because he's now my radio show co-host. I'm defending marathon tournament players in general, because I happen to be one with 17 first places and 1 second place (when I slow-played so my partner could take first) to my credit. In fact, I have never entered a tournament of this type, if I wasn't 100% sure I or my partner would take first.

  Nice guys don't always end up last in life, but they do in VP tournaments.

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@...> wrote:
  >
  > I don't believe that Bob should have tormented Joyce the way he did. In my opinion it was in very bad form.
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: mikeymic
  > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:02 AM
  > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nemartin2002@> wrote:
  > >
  > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
  > > >
  > > > "Whom Do You Trust?"
  > > >
  > > >
  > > Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."
  > >
  > > Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?
  > >
  > > Neil M.
  >
  > The notion of a casino employee contacting Mr. Dancer is certainly a possibility. But it honestly didn't occur to me.
  >
  > Instead, I would assume Bob had a few friends around town keep an "eye on things" much the same way you or I would network in watching a specific progressive. It was a precaution since he knew his investment would be significant. Simple as that.
  >
  > I don't always agree with him. But I do want to commend Mr. Dancer in his article for the honesty in reporting his losses during the event. Most of you understand the math and volatility of video poker. Yet others find a full-pay machine and still incorrectly fantasize that their loss size will somehow mirror that tiny percentage under 100% that the game takes from you long-term.
  >
  > And then you learn the cold, hard truth that in the short run it just doesn't work that way.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What, exactly, did he do that you disagree with?

I didn't see anything dishonest or unscrupulous in any of his actions.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@...> wrote:

To be honest with you; I would not have done what he did.

I don't see anything wrong with this. On one hand, it could be a bluff so he could win if he wasn't going to play anymore. Perhaps that could be unethical, I'm not sure - and it would probably depend on how players typically conduct themselves in these tournaments, and I've never played in any. If he is actually going to play more if she plays, which is what happened, then he is trying to save them both some losses and time since at that point the EV was negative. Unless he is really good friends with the person, which he isn't, he shouldn't trust her if he wants to make sure he wins.

I think that if Bob was notified by a casino employee that Joyce was playing, it would be unethical on the casino employee's part (unless Joyce was notified also), but I don't think there is any problem with taking advantage of this information. Perhaps he could be informing Joyce as well when Bob plays; the casino's goal is really to get as much play as possible.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@...> wrote:

To be honest with you; I would not have done what he did.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Frank
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:27 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

  In Bob's defense I can tell you that his actions are simply par for the course for marathon tournaments of the type he described.

  You aren't playing against the casino, you are in direct competition with the other players, and it's basically "all's fair in love and VP tournaments".

  We used to use every strong arm tactic in the book and a few that aren't, to win those things. And if you don't do it to the competition, the competition does it to you.

  The difference between using the types of tactics Bob used and not, is the difference between winning and losing. Considering $50,000 was on the line, I believe he may have under-reacted.

  Try to put yourself in his shoes, with what most people make in a year on the line, and tell me honestly you wouldn't have done the same or worse.

  ~FK

  P.S. For the record I'm not defending Bob specifically, because he's now my radio show co-host. I'm defending marathon tournament players in general, because I happen to be one with 17 first places and 1 second place (when I slow-played so my partner could take first) to my credit. In fact, I have never entered a tournament of this type, if I wasn't 100% sure I or my partner would take first.

  Nice guys don't always end up last in life, but they do in VP tournaments.

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@> wrote:
  >
  > I don't believe that Bob should have tormented Joyce the way he did. In my opinion it was in very bad form.
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: mikeymic
  > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:02 AM
  > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nemartin2002@> wrote:
  > >
  > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011
  > > >
  > > > "Whom Do You Trust?"
  > > >
  > > >
  > > Very interesting, from the standpoint of "heady" $$ amounts and "long-term" perspective of a competitive event. But a particular comment in the article got me wondering: "The promotion ended on Wednesday, December 29, at midnight. On Tuesday afternoon I got a phone call from somebody saying that Joyce was playing again."
  > >
  > > Did the "heads-up" call come fron anyone affiliated with the casino/resort? And if so - would that have any bearing on the final standing?
  > >
  > > Neil M.
  >
  > The notion of a casino employee contacting Mr. Dancer is certainly a possibility. But it honestly didn't occur to me.
  >
  > Instead, I would assume Bob had a few friends around town keep an "eye on things" much the same way you or I would network in watching a specific progressive. It was a precaution since he knew his investment would be significant. Simple as that.
  >
  > I don't always agree with him. But I do want to commend Mr. Dancer in his article for the honesty in reporting his losses during the event. Most of you understand the math and volatility of video poker. Yet others find a full-pay machine and still incorrectly fantasize that their loss size will somehow mirror that tiny percentage under 100% that the game takes from you long-term.
  >
  > And then you learn the cold, hard truth that in the short run it just doesn't work that way.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just read the Dancer column on 1/25 about the points promo at M. It doesn't sound like Bob 'tormented' Joyce at all. In fact, he probably saved her some money. Bob wanted to win the tourney, nothing wrong with that. Joyce was his main competition and Joyce sounded like she was perfectly willing to take second place.

Bob could have just played and not told her what he was doing. Joyce would have put a lot more money at risk and still would have wound up in second place. He didn't prevent her from playing. He just said if you play, I'll play too.

I don't see the torment in that action.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@...> wrote:

I don't believe that Bob should have tormented Joyce the way he did. In my opinion it was in very bad form.

Yeah, we got the drift when you said he was "tormenting her".

lol I don't where you got that from in the article. Frankly, your interpretation is a little bizarre.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel Marticello" <martret@...> wrote:

To be honest with you; I would not have done what he did.

I know Rob Singer does.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "TIMSPEED" <corvetteracing87@...> wrote:

I just want to know, who the hell carries around that kinda cash per day?!

This article is a great example of how far some players will go to win a tournement or competition. Reminds me of players hanging out at 10pm waiting for a amex card promo at the hrh a couple of years ago. i think one was Bob. Players were scared that someone would take their machine and were willing to wait hours until midnight.

james Thompson
former hrh casino monitor

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: nembree@rogers.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:51:35 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

Visit Your Group
  
      vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

  Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

  .

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If I would have thought up what Bob did I would have done the same thing. And if I were the other player I would have thanked him for not letting me waste my time and money.

And on second thought, I never would have got my ass in that trap.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

And if I were the other player I would have thanked him for >not >letting me waste my time and money.

  <<So I drove over to the M and spoke quietly with Joyce. I told her that
if she continued to play, so would I. I told her that I was prepared to
start playing again to "protect" my position and that I didn't believe it
was possible for her to win. >>

Assuming Bob did this in a monitored area of the casino, I wonder what
management's response would have been if the lady had gone to them and said
Bob was making threats toward her and she felt she was being harrassed in
their casino.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting question!

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: vegasvpplayer
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 25 JAN 2011

  >
  > <<So I drove over to the M and spoke quietly with Joyce. I told her that
  > if she continued to play, so would I. I told her that I was prepared to
  > start playing again to "protect" my position and that I didn't believe it
  > was possible for her to win. >>
  >

  Assuming Bob did this in a monitored area of the casino, I wonder what
  management's response would have been if the lady had gone to them and said
  Bob was making threats toward her and she felt she was being harrassed in
  their casino.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]