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Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

"Pete Crosses The Line"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>

···

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

"Pete Crosses The Line"

______________________________________________________________

OK, if this doesn't start a lengthy thread of Democrats/ Republicans...Liberal/Moderate that the administrator throws over to the other site, I'll be surprised/disappointed. I'll leave my own comments out.

VP advice can stir a range of emotions, especially from people who don't have a clue. Most people don't like to be told that they are could be doing better. My experience is gambling advice when given causes more problems for the person giving the advice.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "chev59el" <dje59@...> wrote:

>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011
>
> "Pete Crosses The Line"
>
>______________________________________________________________
OK, if this doesn't start a lengthy thread of Democrats/ Republicans...Liberal/Moderate that the administrator throws over to the other site, I'll be surprised/disappointed. I'll leave my own comments out.

Trying to be helpful never works(learned the hard way as a novice). Any suggestion will always be the wrong one. Smile and pretend not to have heard anything.

···

VP advice can stir a range of emotions, especially from people who don't have a clue. Most people don't like to be told that they are could be doing better. My experience is gambling advice when given causes more problems for the person giving the advice.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jim_mason7" <7711-jimmason@...> wrote: Trying to be helpful never works(learned the hard way as a novice). Any suggestion will always be the wrong one. Smile and pretend not to have heard anything.

I find this suggestion about offering help to be very hurtful. I think he's wrong, and I don't appreciate it at all.

~FK

P.S. Sorry, just couldn't resist the joke:)

Wow...Someone accusing Bob of hording knowledge. I bet if I met this guy, he'd accuse me of being boring and not talking enough.

He really needs to post that one on some kind of wall for things he's been called.

Bob--The Knowledge Hoarder!

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

"Pete Crosses The Line"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300 to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

"Pete Crosses The Line"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

jim_mason7 wrote:

Trying to be helpful never works(learned the hard way as a novice).
Any suggestion will always be the wrong one. Smile and pretend not
to have heard anything.

> VP advice can stir a range of emotions, especially from people who
don't have a clue. Most people don't like to be told that they are
could be doing better. My experience is gambling advice when given
causes more problems for the person giving the advice.

I'm one to offer advice when asked, but am careful never to offer it in the hard terms with which I follow it for my own sake.

For example, when recently asked about "proper strategy' for a dealt straight w/ 4 cards to a SF, I advised that strategy suggests holding the pat straight and then added, "but where's the fun in that?!!"

I've seldom received abuse in return.

Really? I'm taking Bob's side on this one. He gets to charge whatever he wants for one-on-one VP consultations. Potential clients get to decide if his fee is reasonable or not. (The ability to read and access to the internet can help with that decision.

Because Bob also pointed Pete toward all the cheap (or free advice a clueless novice needs to become competentn at VP, I think he offered just about the level of help appropriate for the encounter.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@...> wrote:

Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300 to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011
>
> "Pete Crosses The Line"
>
> http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm
>
> <a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
> http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>
>
>
> *************************************************
> This link is posted for informational purposes
> and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
> of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
> discussion of the article must be done in
> accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
> *************************************************
>

Are you serious? He was being funny and sarcastic. Did you even read the same article I did?
SteveB

···

--- On Wed, 4/20/11, caribou321 <caribou321@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: caribou321 <caribou321@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 20, 2011, 8:22 AM

      Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300 to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A reply that I get, more often than I would expect when I point out "pay table deficits" in a machine someone is playing and pointing out a "better" machine nearby, is: "This is my lucky machine".

How can I argue against that? LOL.

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

jim_mason7 wrote:
> Trying to be helpful never works.

I'm one to offer advice when asked.

"Pete" probably does not even exist. "He" was there to illustrate a point that Dancer was trying to make (and one that I tend to agree with).

Too many people expect that free advice should be available all the time, as their due. An entitlement mindset has been engendered in our society, even in video poker. (In my opinion, of course.)

..... bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, steve bork <stevebork@...> wrote:

Are you serious? He was being funny and sarcastic. Did you even read the same article I did?
�� � � � � � � � � � � � SteveB

Unbelievable. In my opinion Bob has done more to educate people on the strategy
of VP than anyone else over the last 10-20 years. (followed by Jean) He was
very gracious the first few times he was asked for advise which wasn't followed.
I met Bob once in New Orleans. I was playing NSUD which I am not perfect at
since there are not playable deuces back east and I play it rarely. I asked him
for his advise on a hand and he was very gracious. He also suggested that if I
don't know perfect play for NSUD that I play a game that I can play perfectly. A
friend he was with offered to loan me her strategy chart. What more could you
want?
Joel

···

________________________________
From: caribou321 <caribou321@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 8:22:59 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LVAdvisor Column - 19 APR 2011

Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious
comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I
think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300
to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky
the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If
he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:

Bob Dancer's LVAdvisor Column - 19 APR 2011

"Pete Crosses The Line"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well I agree with you $300 an hour is too high. I'd like to offer my scouting services for $299.42 an hour:)

I think the reason you are offended is that you aren't putting yourself in Bob's shoes enough. This man was alternatively asking for advice, and then refusing to listen to it--when it was offered for free. Do you have any idea how annoying that could be?

I've experienced similar situations where I've been literally begged for my opinion, and then argued with over it, when I provided it. Until something like this happens to you, I don't think it is possible for you to really relate.

This man wanted Bob to tell him what he wanted. Bob instead told him what he needed. What people want and what they need are rarely the same thing. It was doomed to fail anyway.

I also think you might be undervaluing Bob's time in a situation like this. $300 an hour for personal training with this particular trainee that would no doubt require hand holding on a level no one posting on vpFREE could even imagine is likely very reasonable. The more irritating and difficult a job, the more it should pay. This job would be worse than Pairs sewer cleaning.

I disagree with Bob nearly daily, but not this time.

I'm not disagreeing with you either, I just don't think you are making your assessment with enough someone-else's-POV-insight.

You have to admit that accusing the most prolific VP author of our age with hording knowledge was hilarious??? Can we at least agree on that?

What turned your stomach, just made me laugh until my cheeks turned purple.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@...> wrote:

Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300 to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
>
> Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011
>
> "Pete Crosses The Line"
>
> http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm
>
> <a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
> http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>
>
>
> *************************************************
> This link is posted for informational purposes
> and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
> of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
> discussion of the article must be done in
> accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
> *************************************************
>

Put me in Bob's corner. My time would have cost even more.

···

________________________________
From: caribou321 <caribou321@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 5:22:59 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious
comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I
think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300
to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky
the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If
he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@...> wrote:

Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

"Pete Crosses The Line"

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm

<a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>

*************************************************
This link is posted for informational purposes
and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
discussion of the article must be done in
accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
*************************************************

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If Bernanke keeps devaluing the dollar, $300 won't buy a gallon of gas!

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, george lee <glee4ever@...> wrote: Put me in Bob's corner. My time would have cost even more.

OK...OK...that's enough pro Bob statements. He's hard enough to live with as it is, and I'm forced to spend several hours a week in a small room with the guy.

Plus: he's just not that used to solidarity, support, and agreement, he probably doesn't know how to take it. No point casting swine amongst pearls:)

~FK

Couldn't agree more Frank. I'm a service manager at a large domestic auto dealer and customers ask me for my expert advise on what their vehicle may need as far as repairs or maintenance. And, almost on a daily basis, there will be a customer that will argue with me about the answer to their question. They'll say things like: my cousin told me this or my neighbor told me that or I read this on the internet. I've been working on this manufacturer's line of products for almost 30 years, I educate myself on new product information and I'm always open to to the posibility of coming across something I've never experienced before in my line. But what I'll never understand is why someone needs to dispute what the experts in a field suggest and then argue about it.

Why would anyone ask an expert for advise if they have no plans to heed such advise?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Well I agree with you $300 an hour is too high. I'd like to offer my scouting services for $299.42 an hour:)

I think the reason you are offended is that you aren't putting yourself in Bob's shoes enough. This man was alternatively asking for advice, and then refusing to listen to it--when it was offered for free. Do you have any idea how annoying that could be?

I've experienced similar situations where I've been literally begged for my opinion, and then argued with over it, when I provided it. Until something like this happens to you, I don't think it is possible for you to really relate.

This man wanted Bob to tell him what he wanted. Bob instead told him what he needed. What people want and what they need are rarely the same thing. It was doomed to fail anyway.

I also think you might be undervaluing Bob's time in a situation like this. $300 an hour for personal training with this particular trainee that would no doubt require hand holding on a level no one posting on vpFREE could even imagine is likely very reasonable. The more irritating and difficult a job, the more it should pay. This job would be worse than Pairs sewer cleaning.

I disagree with Bob nearly daily, but not this time.

I'm not disagreeing with you either, I just don't think you are making your assessment with enough someone-else's-POV-insight.

You have to admit that accusing the most prolific VP author of our age with hording knowledge was hilarious??? Can we at least agree on that?

What turned your stomach, just made me laugh until my cheeks turned purple.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@> wrote:
>
> Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300 to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE Administrator" <vpfreeadmin@> wrote:
> >
> > Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011
> >
> > "Pete Crosses The Line"
> >
> > http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm
> >
> > <a href="http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm">
> > http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/bob_dancer/2011/0419.cfm</a>
> >
> >
> > *************************************************
> > This link is posted for informational purposes
> > and doesn't constitute an endorsement or approval
> > of the linked article's content by vpFREE. Any
> > discussion of the article must be done in
> > accordance with vpFREE's rules and policies.
> > *************************************************
> >
>

People should have a healthy skepticism in applying expert advice to their own
lives using whatever tools may avail them. They often may support their own
purpose, purportedly using views of others who claim expert status, in any
effort to lessen the inherent bargaining disadvantage when negotiating with
those more specialized in a field. Even experts sometimes make mistakes or
make simplifying assumptions because of incomplete information before advancing
conclusions.

Of course much advice from experts should be accorded with proper veneration.
However, I'm a clinical psychologist and I can tell you that some people give
expert opinion in an effort to aggrandize themselves, influence others' actions
towards a more favorable end for the one giving the advice, or simply to cover
up the fact that they may be embarrassed because they feel that they SHOULD know
the answer without further research, but do not, due to human memory
fallibility. Expecting that others universally revere their advice as dogma
often leads to disappointment.

The best advice should be substantiated in a way that is understandable and
acceptable to the non-expert, which requires a contingent technique because of
the diverse views, background, and cognition of those seeking advice. This
transcends the simple support intrinsic in statements, whether or not
verbalized, of "Trust me, I'm a doctor," or even whether or not I recently
lodged at a Holiday Inn.

Oh, by the way, I lied about being a clinical psychologist.

···

________________________________
From: Jim <deucesdamule@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 1:01:17 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Bob Dancer's LV Advisor Column - 19 APR 2011

Couldn't agree more Frank. I'm a service manager at a large domestic auto dealer
and customers ask me for my expert advise on what their vehicle may need as far
as repairs or maintenance. And, almost on a daily basis, there will be a
customer that will argue with me about the answer to their question. They'll say
things like: my cousin told me this or my neighbor told me that or I read this
on the internet. I've been working on this manufacturer's line of products for
almost 30 years, I educate myself on new product information and I'm always open
to to the posibility of coming across something I've never experienced before in
my line. But what I'll never understand is why someone needs to dispute what the
experts in a field suggest and then argue about it.

Why would anyone ask an expert for advise if they have no plans to heed such
advise?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to agree with caribou321. A few times I have listen to
the radio show, Bob will cut a guest off and end interview. Yes, I know there are time restraints and commercials have to be run but rude is rude. Also, I had to chuckle when I read Bob was waiting for the Senior drawing. I find it hard to believe he stands around waiting for the $1000 drawing. (I am sure he got paid more than that for mentioning M in his article.)

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@...> wrote:

Wow! This article turned my stomach! I can't believe the elitist obnoxious comments from Bob! This is Bob's side of the story, and even reading that, I think it was Bob that crossed the line! Suggesting to someone that he pay $300 to Bob for scouting machines? Is this guy for real? That's nuts! He is lucky the guy didn't get up and punch him in the face for that obnoxious comment! (If he did, maybe someone would have paid him $300 for the punch :wink: )