How I Play Progressives
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html
<a href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html">
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html</a>
Bob Dancer's Latest CasinoGaming.com Column
I'm wondering, now that BD has "outed" his
own "advantage" progressive play at Sam's Town, what the results of
the revelations in his column will be?
Will ST kill the play as being too juicy? Or, was the play already
dead, and therefore there was no harm in revealing details? Or,
perhaps, was the play not quite as advantagious asne might be lead
to believe?
I guess I just don't understand the underlying reason for a pro of
the calibre of BD, to possibly kill one of his OWN good plays, by
naming names etc. Even though most vp players don't play at the
$5.00 level, and therefore would not take advantage of this play,
what about competition from other pros who do play at this level?
If BD had written a general column about how he attacks
progressives, w/o giving up the machine and location, I could
certainly understand that he was just trying to educate his
readership. However, this very specific column would seem to me to
be just a tad more altruistic than that.
If anyone on the board has an idea about this, I would certainly
appreciate it if they would share their thoughts.
Thanks.
Babe
How I Play Progressives
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html
<a
href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html">
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:
http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html</a>
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm wondering, now that BD has "outed" his
own "advantage" progressive play at Sam's Town, what the results
of the revelations in his column will be?
···
================================
I suspect nothing! I have a couple friends that have played that
bank for a few years now. It's an 8/5 bonus progressive, nothing
more! Just happens to come in the $5 variety and usually is
negetive. It's making the casino money.
I think it's pretty obvious that ST would never remove this play
based on BDs article. Remember the games takes 2.4 RF cycles to get
positive. Someone (other than Bob) is losing big during this stretch.
The machine is clearly an overall money maker with the given
paytables.
Dick
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:
···
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm wondering, now that BD has "outed" his
own "advantage" progressive play at Sam's Town, what the results of
the revelations in his column will be?Will ST kill the play as being too juicy? Or, was the play already
dead, and therefore there was no harm in revealing details? Or,
perhaps, was the play not quite as advantagious asne might be lead
to believe?I guess I just don't understand the underlying reason for a pro of
the calibre of BD, to possibly kill one of his OWN good plays, by
naming names etc. Even though most vp players don't play at the
$5.00 level, and therefore would not take advantage of this play,
what about competition from other pros who do play at this level?If BD had written a general column about how he attacks
progressives, w/o giving up the machine and location, I could
certainly understand that he was just trying to educate his
readership. However, this very specific column would seem to me to
be just a tad more altruistic than that.If anyone on the board has an idea about this, I would certainly
appreciate it if they would share their thoughts.Thanks.
Babe
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFREE" <vpFREE@C...> wrote:
>
> How I Play Progressives
>
> http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html
>
> <a
href="http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html">
> http://www.casinogaming.com/columnists/dancer/2005/0208.html</a>
Babe;
"Outing" an 8/5 bonus with a .25% meter is just grist for his column. As others noted, this is a big winner for ST. Until the game reaches 100%, most of the play is probably at about 97% or less.
BTW, I had to copy your note to Notepad, delete the whole content of the note and paste it back from notepad to get rid of that formatting thing at the top. What is that?
Skip
Babe;
"Outing" an 8/5 bonus with a .25% meter is just grist for his
column.
As others noted, this is a big winner for ST. Until the game
reaches
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
100%, most of the play is probably at about 97% or less.
=============================================
Hi Skip,
Thanks for your reply which is very much in the same vein as the
others, who were kind enough to respond to my post.
As I suspected, BD didn't give up anything of any value to himself.
Not that I would expect him to direct others to a juicy play that
was known only to him, but I did think that the column read like a
tutorial for playing that particular bank of $5.00 machines
profitably.
Apparently, in order to do that, one would have to wait til all the
other players had fed it enough for the meter to go positive, and
then, immediately grab the right machine, at the right moment in
time. Certainly,not an easy task, and seemimgly, not the kind of
play that BD, himself, recommends. Thats basically why I was
questioning the column to begin with.
===================================================
BTW, I had to copy your note to Notepad, delete the whole content
of the
note and paste it back from notepad to get rid of that formatting
thing
at the top. What is that?
=====================================================
I don't have a clue! I looked back at my post
and saw the pop-up ad that I think you referred to, but I have no
idea where it came from. I'm sorry that it caused you additional
effort, but I have no explanation for how it got there, or how to
delete it. I hope that the Google people aren't at work again!
Cheers,
Babe
Hmmm,
What I'm gettting is a series of vertical colored lines at the top surrounding your first sentence, increasing in size on each side as it gets further from the text, giving the whole thing a tunnel effect. The rest of the text continues after that (about 8 inches further down, the length of the longest outside lines on my screen).
It may be something Thunderbird is doing because of the ad Yahoo inserted? I haven't seen this before. Anyone else getting this effect?
Skip
jackessiebabe wrote:
···
Hi Skip,
at the top. What is that?
=====================================================
Also what Bob does not tell you is, Even with a $120,000 bankroll and .6 cashback you still have a 20% chance of going dead broke( ROR Sorokin calculation ) before hitting the jackpot. How many of us here have that kind of cash? Even if Sam's gave 1.2% cashback for this play ( you'd only need $100,000 for a 5% ROR), I'm not mortgaging my house and taking a shot!
regards...Tom
Babe;
"Outing" an 8/5 bonus with a .25% meter is just grist for his
column.
As others noted, this is a big winner for ST. Until the game
reaches
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
100%, most of the play is probably at about 97% or less.
=============================================
Hmmm,
What I'm gettting is a series of vertical colored lines at the
top
surrounding your first sentence, increasing in size on each side
as it
gets further from the text, giving the whole thing a tunnel
effect. The
rest of the text continues after that (about 8 inches further
down, the
length of the longest outside lines on my screen).
It may be something Thunderbird is doing because of the ad Yahoo
inserted? I haven't seen this before. Anyone else getting this
effect
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
======================================
Skip,
I'm absolutely stymied! When I bring up the post I sent this
morning, it looks perfectly normal on my screen. I can't imagine
why you're getting this weird effect. All I can tell you is that
it's nothing I'M doing (at least not on purpose).
Babe
>
>
Now, Skip. Didn't the doctor tell you ONE of your "little pills" per
day is all you're supposed to take?
Anyway, her postings look normal to me.
carlos
Hmmm,
What I'm gettting is a series of vertical colored lines at the
top
surrounding your first sentence, increasing in size on each side as
it
gets further from the text, giving the whole thing a tunnel effect.
The
rest of the text continues after that (about 8 inches further down,
the
length of the longest outside lines on my screen).
It may be something Thunderbird is doing because of the ad Yahoo
inserted? I haven't seen this before. Anyone else getting this
effect?
Also what Bob does not tell you is, Even with a $120,000 bankroll
and .6
cashback you still have a 20% chance of going dead broke( ROR
Sorokin
calculation ) before hitting the jackpot. How many of us here have
that kind
of cash? Even if Sam's gave 1.2% cashback for this play ( you'd
only need
$100,000 for a 5% ROR), I'm not mortgaging my house and taking a
shot......
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote:
===================================
Nor am I Tom!
I'm just wondering of what possible benefit (to his readers) is a
column which advises players how to play (for a RF) on a $5.00
machine, that is such a poor play, that HE probably wouldn't play it
himelf?
I find it hard to believe that he cares so little about his
credibility, that he would actually recommend this play to his
readers. I guess that he would say that he wasn't RECOMMENDING it,
but just providing a strategy in case someone was interested in
trying to snare a big RF. But, I really believe that many players,
after reading the column, would come away with the impression, that
he not only recommends it but also plays it himself.
I guess I just don't get it. But that's O.K., too. I do love
WinPoker, and have learned a great deal from practicing VP on that
program. For that, if nothing else, I appreciate what he has done
for my bankroll!
Cheers,
Babe
calebr0n wrote:
Now, Skip. Didn't the doctor tell you ONE of your "little pills" per day is all you're supposed to take?
I think it must one of the little pills the he told me NOT to take. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's something to do with Thunderbird*.
*I shoulda stuck to the pint instead of the quart.
Skip
jackessiebabe wrote:
I'm just wondering of what possible benefit (to his readers) is a
column which advises players how to play (for a RF) on a $5.00
machine, that is such a poor play, that HE probably wouldn't play it
himelf?
I don't think he deems the machine a poor play at all when it reaches
the progressive threshold he outlines and that indeed it's one of his
occasional plays.
No doubt, as Tom suggests, we're looking at a fairly high ROR for a
bankroll of $120,000. But we know Dancer is playing on a much higher
bankroll than that and, for that matter, I suspect so are the other $5
machine players I have at least a passing acquiaintance with. I would
hope so, in any case.
Truth is, though, that Dancer's columns generally downplay bankroll
considerations. Guess if luck is on your side you don't need a
bankroll 
At any rate, the column isn't intended as a tutorial for Joe Blow on
how to approach $5 progressives. Rather, it serves as insight into
the general considerations and frame of mind that Dancer uses in
choosing to tackle a progressive.
There is an unfortunate feel of bluster here ("look at what I can
play"). But the intention can be reasonably interpreted as a desire
to share his real life experience with progressives in the interest of
better helping others understand the psychology/practicalities
involved and apply it to their play.
Were I him, I might have sought out an example that was more broadly
applicable.
- Harry
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
At any rate, the column isn't intended as a tutorial for Joe Blow
on
how to approach $5 progressives. Rather, it serves as insight into
the general considerations and frame of mind that Dancer uses in
choosing to tackle a progressive.
I pretty much have to agree with Harry. At the beginning of the
article he says this is how he does it, as not much has been shared
on doing progressives. Further he states that it can work for many
situations. Sure sounded to me like he played it. But, no I am a
few thousand miles away so I have not "eyeballed" his play.
DWK
Truth is, though, that Dancer's columns generally downplay bankroll
considerations. Guess if luck is on your side you don't need a
bankroll
Right you are, Harry, if by "luck" you mean Shirley. If you'll
remember, it was wife Shirley who landed the big jp's that made for
the million dollar year. He got the rep; she got the royals. Now
that's a major case of "luck" sitting and playing by his side. 
Now if I can just get my ML to do the same, I might just write me a
book too.
Pete
You must remeber that he NEVER had the kind of bankroll necessary to
do all of the things that he CLAIMS to have done. However. he is
either very great or very lucky. You decide.
···
On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:05:36 -0500, you wrote:
Also what Bob does not tell you is, Even with a $120,000 bankroll and .6
cashback you still have a 20% chance of going dead broke( ROR Sorokin
calculation ) before hitting the jackpot. How many of us here have that kind
of cash? Even if Sam's gave 1.2% cashback for this play ( you'd only need
$100,000 for a 5% ROR), I'm not mortgaging my house and taking a shot!regards...Tom
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
Babe;
"Outing" an 8/5 bonus with a .25% meter is just grist for hiscolumn.
As others noted, this is a big winner for ST. Until the game
reaches
100%, most of the play is probably at about 97% or less.
=============================================
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Also what Bob does not tell you is, Even with a $120,000 bankroll
and .6
cashback you still have a 20% chance of going dead broke( ROR
Sorokin
calculation ) before hitting the jackpot. How many of us here have
that kind
of cash? Even if Sam's gave 1.2% cashback for this play ( you'd
only need
$100,000 for a 5% ROR), I'm not mortgaging my house and taking a
shot......
===================================
Nor am I Tom!
I'm just wondering of what possible benefit (to his readers) is a
column which advises players how to play (for a RF) on a $5.00
machine, that is such a poor play, that HE probably wouldn't play it
himelf?I find it hard to believe that he cares so little about his
credibility, that he would actually recommend this play to his
readers. I guess that he would say that he wasn't RECOMMENDING it,
but just providing a strategy in case someone was interested in
trying to snare a big RF. But, I really believe that many players,
after reading the column, would come away with the impression, that
he not only recommends it but also plays it himself.
Bob Dancer did NOT write the program. He merely sold the use of his
name as a marketing tool (similaer to Jean Scott and Frugal Video
Poker.
`I guess I just don't get it. But that's O.K., too. I do love
···
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 23:07:32 -0000, you wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@n...> wrote:
WinPoker, and have learned a great deal from practicing VP on that
program. For that, if nothing else, I appreciate what he has done
for my bankroll!Cheers,
Babe
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
Truth is, though, that Dancer's columns generally downplay bankroll
considerations. Guess if luck is on your side you don't need a
bankroll
I don't have BD's book with me on my trip, but I seem to recall him
saying he uses a "3 royals" rule for the required bankroll. But he
may have been referring to 9/6JorB, not Bonus Poker, although the
variance isn't much different as I recall. If the progressive RF is
$30,000, that means he must have a $90,000+ bankroll. I always
thought his bankroll rule was too "rough", but evidently it works for
him (so far).
Also, the return to the casino is ALWAYS the same, no matter what the
level of the progressive. Sometimes I wonder if the casinos realize
this, because we hear of situations where machines are pulled after a
high progressive is hit in positive territory. That makes no sense
at all. A high progressive attracts more play ... isn't that what
the casinos want?
do not attempt to adjust your tv set
we control the horizontal, we control the vertical
Hmmm,
What I'm gettting is a series of vertical colored lines at the
top
surrounding your first sentence, increasing in size on each side as
it
gets further from the text, giving the whole thing a tunnel effect.
The
rest of the text continues after that (about 8 inches further down,
the
length of the longest outside lines on my screen).
It may be something Thunderbird is doing because of the ad Yahoo
inserted? I haven't seen this before. Anyone else getting this
effect?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:
Skip
jackessiebabe wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Skip,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>>at the top. What is that?
>>
>>
>=====================================================
>
>
Bob comes in at as little as .25%. He sometimes will play both games.
I don't know the meter, but I'm, guessing, depending what day int he
week it is, you're likely not getting on at 30K. The article, as
anyone with an IQ above room temperature could see, was a blatant plug
for Sam's Town. They let Bob play there, Bob shows them love in
return. BTW, Bonus has a few tricks to it, it's a little more
complicated than 9-6 Jacks. Not much, but you should know the
differences.
Playing progressives isn't that hard. Playing NSUD, you only really
have to remember 5 or 6 numbers. I'd give them to you, but it's been a
while since I played it (Motor City in Detroit, which now has Full pay
for Multistrike on the NSUD and DBDW, for dollars-enjoy the ride with
that whopping .167 cb). You need to know when the drop the deuce going
for the royal, and when to play AXs* with 0, 1, 2 penalty cards, and
you should probably know when to break a dealt natural A-hi straight
to draw 2 to the royal. Playing KXs over i1 comes fairly quickly as
well. Playing Jacks, it's about the same, except when to break a pair
to draw to any RFe except AXTs, then AXTs, playing QTs over KQ,
playing ATs no pen (that one is about 5600 coins), etc.
The other thing about playing progressives is that you must play at a
high rate of speed, and you will make some mistakes. You're trading
certainty (because in a good progressive, the bank will be locked up
and you're competing against the others) for EV.
I tend to eschew single line plays; too much variance and too heavily
reliant on speed. Those plays are a grind. I'd much rather play
multi-play for .5% than single line for 1%.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I'm wondering, now that BD has "outed" his
own "advantage" progressive play at Sam's Town, what the results of
the revelations in his column will be?Will ST kill the play as being too juicy? Or, was the play already
dead, and therefore there was no harm in revealing details? Or,
perhaps, was the play not quite as advantagious asne might be lead
to believe?I guess I just don't understand the underlying reason for a pro of
the calibre of BD, to possibly kill one of his OWN good plays, by
naming names etc. Even though most vp players don't play at the
$5.00 level, and therefore would not take advantage of this play,
what about competition from other pros who do play at this level?