--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:
The sentence below should read: I am NOT a pro player etc.
I believe you. I'm not a pro player either. I'm just looking for some
fun ... now, where is that crazy cash throwing drunk monkey ...
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
I believe you. I'm not a pro player either. I'm just looking for some
fun ... now, where is that crazy cash throwing drunk monkey ...
======================================================
Are you acquainted with Mr. fivespot? Rumor has it that the poor
little primate is locked up in his basement, with no chance of
being released, unless he starts flinging more cash.
If you're concerned about this, you may wish to contact the NSFPCP
(Nevada Society For the Prevention of Cruelty to Primates). I doubt
that this will do any good though. I've heard that the NSFPCP is in
cahoots with (and always rules in favor of) members of SOAP (Society
Of Advantage Players)! {(O:
Forgive me! It's snowing again in Chicagoland. Weatherman says 10"
to 14" by rush hour. Cabin fever has set in! I should be OK again
by April.
~Babe~
Good morning Mr. Spot!
hi babe!
I'm happy that another well respected AP has joined this lively
thread!
i'm respected now? cool. 
IMO, where we differ in our beliefs can, for the most part, be
attributed to the fact that I play VP for fun and recreation, and
you, NOTI, as well as some of my other good friends, play VP as your
vocation.
well, actually, i play VP when i'm slacking off from my vocation.
while it contributes to my income, it's not something i'd ever
consider as a profession.
it's a fun hobby, but for me the fun comes in finding and exploiting
an edge. it tickles me that it's possible to beat casinos at their own
game. figuring out how to optimally beat a combination of games and
promotions is a neat math puzzle. playing a game where i'm
mathematically certain to win in the long run is amusing.
if i didn't have an edge, i wouldn't consider playing VP as
entertainment, even if it were very cheap or breakeven. it wouldn't be
fun for me. so i guess i'm more akin to the pros in that way.
I'm sorry I offended you. I assure you that I meant no disrespect
to you or any other AP. Since you found my statement offensive, I
sincerely apologize. I do believe that I took pains to point out
that I do not consider advantage play to be cheating at all. I guess
this is a matter of semantics. IMO, this was not advantage play.
apology accepted, and i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on
whether or not playing the misprogrammed slot in question constitutes
advantage play.
it seems like it must be a continuum. finding a $100 machine
mistakenly set to FPDW instead of NSUD... certainly AP. finding a $100
machine mistakenly set to pay a billion dollars for two pair...
problematic. where's the line? i don't see any objective way to set
it, and my sense of what's right clearly includes a lot more than
yours.
I also trust that, if the casino noticed you playing this obviously
malfunctioning and incorrectly programmed machine,
(i've already objected to the word "malfunctioning"...)
and 86'd or tresspassed you because of it, that you wouldn't think
this was unfair.
heavens no. casinos have the right to bar anyone they want, and if i
were a casino, i sure wouldn't want me as a customer. it amazes me
that i'm still welcome in almost all the casinos i've played. seems
like poor judgement on their part.
cheers,
five
On Feb 2, 2008 8:48 AM, jackessiebabe <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com> wrote:
c'mon, you wouldn't say that if you'd ever been to a really wild
monkey party. the banana daiquiris are awesome, you can make funny
faces with the chimps, stuff lots of money in your pockets, stumble
home, sober up the next morning, and continue being your skillful
hard-working self the next day, just with some good memories and a lot
more money.
cheers,
five
On Feb 1, 2008 10:52 PM, Jonathan <diversified_slave@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, fivespot <fivespot55@...> wrote:
> this seems puritan to me. sometimes you earn money through hard work
> and skill. sometimes a drunk monkey throws wads of cash at you.
> exercising skill is nice, but if the monkey's drunk enough and rich
> enough, who needs it? give me a big bag to shove the cash in and i'm
> happy.Hope I never get so jaded that I lose my soul.
i'm respected now? cool.
Hi fivespot!
Of course you're respected, at least by me! Though, I do believe
that it's time that you released that poor monkey from your
basement. Not only has the organ grinder applied for welfare, but
Mr. NOTI, wishes to grab some of the cash that's being tossed around
after the monkey has had one too many alcoholic beverages.
well, actually, i play VP when i'm slacking off from my
it tickles me that it's possible to beat casinos at their
if i didn't have an edge, i wouldn't consider playing VP as
Here's where our playing philosophy differs. I do think that the
difference is also what separates the pros from the recs.
it seems like it must be a continuum. finding a $100
I find much with which to agree in your statement above.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with playing the $100 FPDW machine,
that has a normal pay table, as Richard did. OTOH, I am squeamish
about the second example given, and would PERSONALLY, not play that
machine.
Therefore, I'll conclude that we differ mostly in the subjective
parameters that we set for what is acceptable for personal advantage
play.
In any event, I'm glad that we've had this discussion.
I wish you the best of luck in and out of the casinos!
~Babe~
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:
Here's where our playing philosophy differs. I do think that the
difference is also what separates the pros from the recs.
Because I have a competitive nature, I always TRY to find plays that
will give me an advantage. To that end I study, practice, observe,
calculate and search out good VP opportunties. However, I will
still play when my only advantage is the comps I receive. It is
enough for me to play breakeven or small loss VP, in order to
enjoy "free" gourmet dinners and deluxe rooms.
Well, there are pros that play for the room and board. If the value of
the comps are greater than the average cost of playing the game, you
are still playing at an advantage over the casino. The only question
is, to how low of an advantage are you willing to go. The most
important consideration is not that smaller advantages yield less per
hour, but rather that your risk of ruin goes up substantially as your
advantage approaches breakeven, and at breakeven your risk of ruin is
100%, assuming the casino lets you play until you bust out (they may
cut you off at some point for winning too much, which reduces your
risk of ruin). I think in general, recreational players are willing to
take on more risk of ruin, perhaps without even knowing about it, but
there are pros that are high risk takers also. Both recreational and
pros can always rebuild another bankroll, it's not like pros can only
make money playing video poker.
willing to go. The most important consideration is not that smaller
advantages yield less per hour, but rather that your risk of ruin
goes up substantially as your advantage approaches breakeven, and at
breakeven your risk of ruin is 100%, assuming the casino lets you
play until you bust out...........
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana20 wrote:
The only question is, to how low of an advantage are you
=====================================================
My "risk of ruin" is tolerably low. I ALWAYS play with a generous
short term session bankroll. So far, I've never come close to
losing my entire session bankroll. If I was going that badly, I
would quit for the day/week/trip. I am NOT a good loser! {(O:
I am also exremely particular about my machine selection. If it is
available, I will usually play 100%+ EV VP (w/o counting
comps/FP/CB) even if I'm getting lesser points/comps/offers by
doing so. This is a tradeoff that I'm willing to make.
So far, it has rarely been necessary for me to play in casinos where
all the VP is -100%.
they may cut you off at some point for winning too much,
I think in general, recreational players are willing to
Both recreational and pros can always rebuild another
Of course, that's true. I'm thankful that I have a successful
career in another business. However, at my age, I'd just as soon not
have to start "building a new bankroll" either for VP or for my
other life!
~Babe~
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:
Sometimes, for some reason (some being totally illogical)I will
decide to play -100% EV games. When that occurs I limit myself to
the VP that is, IMO, the best offered at that venue, on that day.
These games are all FULL PAY versions of the following: NSUD/JOB/BP.
You do this as a cover play?
Additionally, I will also occasionally play -FP Progs. with at least
a 2X RF meter, 9/6DDB and 4700/85KBJW.
Those are positive plays.
In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
jackessiebabe@> wrote:
Sometimes, for some reason (some being totally illogical)I will
decide to play -100% EV games. When that occurs I limit myself to
the VP that is, IMO, the best offered at that venue, on that day.
These games are all FULL PAY versions of the following: NSUD/JOB/BP.
=====================================================
In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000
Either I am having an inordinate amount of difficulty in making
myself
clear, or you have decided, for some perverse reason, to
misunderstand
me.
Babe wrote: Additionally, I will also occasionally play -FP
Progs. with at least a 2X RF meter, 9/6DDB and 4700/85KBJW.
======================
NOTI wrote: Those are positive plays.
======================================================
Really?? You are the math expert. Is either a 98.981% game (9/6DDB)
or a 98.443% game (4700/85KBJW) considered a positive play? If so,
I must go back to VP kindergarten! I do admit that .25c 8/5JOB with
a $2K royal may be positive. However, so much of the EV is
dependent on the royal, that I don't usually consider it to be a
true positive play. However, a $3K meter would make the play so
strong, that I would.
~Babe~
nightoftheiguana20 wrote:
The most important consideration is not that smaller
advantages yield less per hour, but rather that your risk of ruin
goes up substantially as your advantage approaches breakeven, and
at breakeven your risk of ruin is 100%
I'm a recreational player, not a pro. Overall, may play is at approx
100% expectation, and I'd say my risk of ruin is 0%. That's because,
since this is recreational to me, I play at a level where the amount I
win or lose in any session or any year is very small when compared to
my "real life" bankroll.
My living expenses and retirement savings etc come from my real life
job. I have credit lines at the casinos that I use when I play. In no
case does the amount I win or lose have a serious impact on my life
savings or ordinary expenses.
When I go to Reno for a weekend, I don't set any limits on what I win
or lose. I just play at a level at which I know that the fluctuations
won't have serious effects on the rest of my life. I won't win enough
to retire significantly early than I plan to, nor will I lose enough to
be "ruined" in any sense.
This type of strategy and mind-set is entirely different than that of a
pro, since my gambling is separate from my real life financial planning.
Year after year after year, my total win/loss is a few thousand dollars
one way or the other, and over time, the total amount won or lost is
trivial to my overall financial health. In the meantime, I get my
comped rooms and foods and tourneys and such that I can share with the
family and friends who join me on these trips, making the endeavor
overall a very positive expectation, not in terms of finances, but in
terms of getting lots of recreation at a profit/loss that's close
enough to zero to be trivial.
Stuart (RandomStu)
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
Very well said, Stu! I agree with every point that you made. My
feelings about playing VP, gambling bankroll, machine selection etc.
are almost identical with yours.
I guess that we're both rec (but not WRECKED) players.
Good Luck!
~Babe~
===================================================
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart" <sresnick2@...> wrote:
I'm a recreational player, not a pro. Overall, may play is at approx
100% expectation, and I'd say my risk of ruin is 0%. That's because,
since this is recreational to me, I play at a level where the amount I
win or lose in any session or any year is very small when compared to
my "real life" bankroll.......................