Banged away on these things for 5 days (approximately 80k hands) without a royal. Didn't see anyone else hit one neither. On the 5th day a local player comments "I bet you had much better success on the uprights they got rid of". I paused for a second to recollect and indeed this was the case. So it seems that not only I have observed Royal dry spells with these slant tops. Given the popularity of Joker Poker I also expected these machines to be fully occupied. What's going on here, is it common local knowledge that these things are gaffed?
are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?
I hit a royal on one of them earlier this year. 80K hands is well within
the realm of possibility for a result of no royal. Or so I read on this
board. Gaffed? Gimme a break.
···
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:58 PM, vp_nbi <nbi@wideopenwest.com> wrote:
**
Banged away on these things for 5 days (approximately 80k hands) without a
royal. Didn't see anyone else hit one neither. On the 5th day a local
player comments "I bet you had much better success on the uprights they got
rid of". I paused for a second to recollect and indeed this was the case.
So it seems that not only I have observed Royal dry spells with these slant
tops. Given the popularity of Joker Poker I also expected these machines to
be fully occupied. What's going on here, is it common local knowledge that
these things are gaffed?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Santa Fe is my "home" casino and I love the FBJW slant tops. I play there several time a week and I have had many Royals on them. A friend of mine was playing them a couple of weeks ago (he plays FPDW) and said he had 8 royals so far on them this month. You are having a losing streak - it happens to everyone - going two cycles without a royal may make you think the machines are "gaffed" but that is nonsense.
···
From: vp_nbi <nbi@wideopenwest.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?
Banged away on these things for 5 days (approximately 80k hands) without a royal. Didn't see anyone else hit one neither. On the 5th day a local player comments "I bet you had much better success on the uprights they got rid of". I paused for a second to recollect and indeed this was the case. So it seems that not only I have observed Royal dry spells with these slant tops. Given the popularity of Joker Poker I also expected these machines to be fully occupied. What's going on here, is it common local knowledge that these things are gaffed?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for the insightful response. You hit one under what circumstances? You shoveled some change in, sat for 10 minutes, held an A-10 and voila, the rest was filled in? Good data points.
Did you miss the part where I said nobody else hit neither? And this happened on not just one vacation (which would have been bad enough), but the last two. Of course the local player who commented to me didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah right.
"Or so I read on this board"? Thanks for emphatically confirming your knowledge of basic probability and statistics. No of course they couldn't be gaffed. Never happened anywhere before, right?
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, gmblnmn <nktalbrch@...> wrote:
I hit a royal on one of them earlier this year. 80K hands is well within
the realm of possibility for a result of no royal. Or so I read on this
board. Gaffed? Gimme a break.On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:58 PM, vp_nbi <nbi@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> Banged away on these things for 5 days (approximately 80k hands) without a
> royal. Didn't see anyone else hit one neither. On the 5th day a local
> player comments "I bet you had much better success on the uprights they got
> rid of". I paused for a second to recollect and indeed this was the case.
> So it seems that not only I have observed Royal dry spells with these slant
> tops. Given the popularity of Joker Poker I also expected these machines to
> be fully occupied. What's going on here, is it common local knowledge that
> these things are gaffed?
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"8 royals so far"...blah...blah
In how many hands?
Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Pat Nashick <patnashick@...> wrote:
Santa Fe is my "home" casino and I love the FBJW slant tops. I play there several time a week and I have had many Royals on them. A friend of mine was playing them a couple of weeks ago (he plays FPDW) and said he had 8 royals so far on them this month. You are having a losing streak - it happens to everyone - going two cycles without a royal may make you think the machines are "gaffed" but that is nonsense.  Â
From: vp_nbi <nbi@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:58 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?Â
Banged away on these things for 5 days (approximately 80k hands) without a royal. Didn't see anyone else hit one neither. On the 5th day a local player comments "I bet you had much better success on the uprights they got rid of". I paused for a second to recollect and indeed this was the case. So it seems that not only I have observed Royal dry spells with these slant tops. Given the popularity of Joker Poker I also expected these machines to be fully occupied. What's going on here, is it common local knowledge that these things are gaffed?[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Probability is a funny thing, my friend! Your chances of hitting a RF stays the same(hold 1 card, you have 1 in 178,365; hold 2 you have 1 in 16,215; hold 3 you have 1 in 1081; hold 4 you have 1 in 47). You are dealing with independent events and your chances will in increase over time.
Am I making sense?
···
________________________________
From: vp_nbi <nbi@wideopenwest.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:15 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?
"8 royals so far"...blah...blah
In how many hands?
Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
Haven't had my coffee yet ... maybe someone familiar with these machines will make sense of this. (An image of the Tazmanian Devil playing vp keeps flashing up in my mind.)
I've just never witnessed a machine that could handle the Deal/Draw/Credit Increment in less than 2 sec / hand (say, 1.5k hands/hr)
In any case, nbi, with your doubts about machine fairness, I would expect you're not planning a return to SF Stn anytime soon. (To do so, would seem an analog of the idiomatic definition of insanity.)
- H.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@...> wrote:
When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When
focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was
at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed.
Is it possible you're not counting your hands correctly? That would explain your not-even-possible 3k hands per hour as well as your not-as-many-hands-as-you-thought royal drought.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@...> wrote:
"8 royals so far"...blah...blah
In how many hands?Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
>
You could follow up with the gaming commission if you feel that the games are not reading proper or could have an error in the programming. They may check it out or not. I've had long streaks without a royal and feel that my timing just sucked for not hitting the deal/draw button at the right millisecond while the cards are being shuffled during the deal and draw. Sometimes the RNG loves ya and sometimes....well you know.
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Kamango_ <vetsen@cox.net>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 9:28 am
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?
Is it possible you're not counting your hands correctly? That would explain your not-even-possible 3k hands per hour as well as your not-as-many-hands-as-you-thought royal drought.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@...> wrote:
"8 royals so far"...blah...blah
In how many hands?Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Correction.........I meant your chances will NOT increase over time. Sorry!
···
Sent from my iPad
On Sep 20, 2012, at 5:56 AM, ERNIE NELMIDA <been2all50@yahoo.com> wrote:
Probability is a funny thing, my friend! Your chances of hitting a RF stays the same(hold 1 card, you have 1 in 178,365; hold 2 you have 1 in 16,215; hold 3 you have 1 in 1081; hold 4 you have 1 in 47). You are dealing with independent events and your chances will in increase over time.
Am I making sense?
________________________________
From: vp_nbi <nbi@wideopenwest.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:15 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?"8 royals so far"...blah...blah
In how many hands?Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As far as the play rate it depends on the game. Joker Poker has a a high frequency of 5 card redraws. And the game is fairly easy to play.
Yes, you're quite right. The whole point of my posting was to find out what knowledgeable locals had to say. I will definitely abstain unless I'm persuaded it's on the up and up. Unfortunately I've only seen one substantive response so far and it raises more questions.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@> wrote:
> When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When
> focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was
> at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed.Haven't had my coffee yet ... maybe someone familiar with these machines will make sense of this. (An image of the Tazmanian Devil playing vp keeps flashing up in my mind.)
I've just never witnessed a machine that could handle the Deal/Draw/Credit Increment in less than 2 sec / hand (say, 1.5k hands/hr)
In any case, nbi, with your doubts about machine fairness, I would expect you're not planning a return to SF Stn anytime soon. (To do so, would seem an analog of the idiomatic definition of insanity.)
- H.
You have a point. I get that rate on the computer via a combination of mouse and keyboard which I've been doing for a long time and am quite proficient at. On the computer I can play continuously for long stretches, but there are various breaks in casino play. These breaks however are not long and don't invalidate the overall observation. Again, I've had lengthy dry spells before, but someone else hit. During this dry spell I wasn't seeing anyone else hit. So the picture is formed not only by my totals, but by those playing concurrently as well.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Kamango_" <vetsen@...> wrote:
Is it possible you're not counting your hands correctly? That would explain your not-even-possible 3k hands per hour as well as your not-as-many-hands-as-you-thought royal drought.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@> wrote:
>
> "8 royals so far"...blah...blah
> In how many hands?
>
> Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
>
> Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
>
>
> >
>
I've done that for non-Nevada properties. It's quite a pain and usually non-productive as most state gaming boards either don't care or actually support machines that unfairly pad state profits.
I really have no problem with Nevada gaming. In fact I've given up non-Nevada video poker because Nevada vp is the only vp I trust. That being said new machines are continuously being deployed (with the exception of some decrepit establishments I won't mention) and some of these new deployments result in observations that merit discussion.
If sufficient numbers of knowledgeable regulars can allay my fears I've got no problem continuing to play these machines. In fact from a physical comfort perspective they're hugely preferable to uprights for people like me who have had rotator cuff problems.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Videopkrplayer@... wrote:
You could follow up with the gaming commission if you feel that the games are not reading proper or could have an error in the programming. They may check it out or not. I've had long streaks without a royal and feel that my timing just sucked for not hitting the deal/draw button at the right millisecond while the cards are being shuffled during the deal and draw. Sometimes the RNG loves ya and sometimes....well you know.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kamango_ <vetsen@...>
To: vpFREE <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 9:28 am
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?Is it possible you're not counting your hands correctly? That would explain your not-even-possible 3k hands per hour as well as your not-as-many-hands-as-you-thought royal drought.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@> wrote:
>
> "8 royals so far"...blah...blah
> In how many hands?
>
> Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
>
> Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
>
>
> >
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
theres no your playing 3k hph
···
________________________________
From: Kamango_ <vetsen@cox.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:23 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?
Is it possible you're not counting your hands correctly? That would explain your not-even-possible 3k hands per hour as well as your not-as-many-hands-as-you-thought royal drought.
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@...> wrote:
"8 royals so far"...blah...blah
In how many hands?Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells. Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the "American Coin" realm of numbers.
Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the regulars.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
These days, people often complain they don't "see" jackpots in casinos like
in the "old days." TITO changed our perceptions a bit. Just an
observation, but if people are playing quarters and under many times they
just play thru a royal. I have. Sometimes someone nearby may be having a
very bad session. (Usually it's me.) But they don't want to make someone
feel bad either. The machines won't lock up and they don't want to call
attention to themselves. They simply cash out the ticket when they are
ready to leave. Some are complaining with thousands on their machine. You
never know for sure or how much they spent either. Many like to say, "I
only put a $20 in!" I've gone weeks and months without a royal. Yet, had
some streaks the other way too. I know locals who play every day and suffer
bad streaks and some visitors who play a few times a year and hit a royal
every trip. Go figure. Your story still doesn't sound unusual at all to me
and I also play at Santa Fe.
vp_nbi
···
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:21 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the
level?
You have a point. I get that rate on the computer via a combination of mouse
and keyboard which I've been doing for a long time and am quite proficient
at. On the computer I can play continuously for long stretches, but there
are various breaks in casino play. These breaks however are not long and
don't invalidate the overall observation. Again, I've had lengthy dry spells
before, but someone else hit. During this dry spell I wasn't seeing anyone
else hit. So the picture is formed not only by my totals, but by those
playing concurrently as well.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "Kamango_"
<vetsen@...> wrote:
Is it possible you're not counting your hands correctly? That would
explain your not-even-possible 3k hands per hour as well as your
not-as-many-hands-as-you-thought royal drought.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "vp_nbi"
<nbi@> wrote:
>
> "8 royals so far"...blah...blah
> In how many hands?
>
> Two+ cycles on two successive vacations with other players also striking
out over most of my playing time adds up to a huge number of hands. When
playing casually I crank out about 3k hands per hour. When focused even
more. And over most of the time in question there was at least one other
player matching or exceeding my speed. I'm well acquainted with dry spells.
Usually when I'm having one the players around me are not. Again, for the
scenario described we're talking a huge number of hands. We're easily in the
"American Coin" realm of numbers.
>
> Gaffed is nonsense? Keep telling yourself that. And if you're lucky
enough to confine your play to the legit machines within Nevada you might
even be ok over the long run. But for anyone well versed in firmware
programming alterations to the code may be challenging, but certainly well
within the realm of expertise of a competent programmer. It's been done
before and can be done again. My concern is not that machines are being
altered out in the field, but that they are not truly random when shipped by
the manufacturer and that the gaming board's testing isn't rigorous enough
to detect very subtle gaffing. I still believe that the overwhelming number
of machines in Nevada are legit. But situations come up that make a
reasonable person take notice. Which is why it makes sense to ask the
regulars.
>
>
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Venting about the game is perfectly acceptable. Being disrespectful of others is not.
If losing makes you this grouchy, perhaps it isn't the hobby of choice
···
Thanks for the insightful response. You hit one under what circumstances? You shoveled some change in, sat for 10 minutes, held an A-10 and voila, the rest was filled in? Good data points.
Did you miss the part where I said nobody else hit neither? And this happened on not just one vacation (which would have been bad enough), but the last two. Of course the local player who commented to me didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah right.
"Or so I read on this board"? Thanks for emphatically confirming your knowledge of basic probability and statistics. No of course they couldn't be gaffed. Never happened anywhere before, right?
Really? Not in this universe.
Joker has THE FEWEST redraws of any video poker game ever.
Most deals contain at least one singleton 4 thru Jack to draw to.
No Joker game I know is any kind of easy. They all have counter-intuitive strategies that are very different from other games, and mistakes are very costly. The two-pair version, in my opinion, is THE most difficult game to play accurately.
TC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
On Sep 20, 2012, at 12:06 PM, "vp_nbi" <nbi@wideopenwest.com> wrote:
Joker Poker has a a high frequency of 5 card redraws. And the game is fairly easy to play._._,___
vp_nbi
It sounds like you were playing 5-play on your computer.
···
_____
_,___
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Venting about the game is perfectly acceptable. Being disrespectful of others is not.
If losing makes you this grouchy, perhaps it isn't the hobby of choice
He's rightfully grouchy because instead of other people just addressing his concern, they have to start throwing in the digs.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
--- On Thu, 9/20/12, nita.royal <mcuddington@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: nita.royal <mcuddington@hotmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: are the Santa Fe Station 100%+ slant tops on the level?
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, September 20, 2012, 11:06 PM
There's a 2-pair or better non wild card game that used to have good progressives that has absolutely no redraws. A 2-flush beats a redraw. The pay table went something like 2-3-5-7-11-50.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
Tabbycat <tabbycat@wachafo.com> wrote:
Joker has THE FEWEST redraws of any video poker game ever.