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ADVANTAGE SLOTS

#1

JEWEL IN THE CROWN - In the link, click on the Jewel In The Crown machine to enlarge it.

http://www.californiaslots.com/models.php?model=Barcrest

JITC was a rare machine. I used to play a dollar denom at the Four Queens when I caught play. But the MGM had this game in both $5 and $10 denom. It's a typical advantage slot, the main game being the line pays, and the secondary game being catching the jewels to get bonuses.
You can see the bonus amounts on the LCD screen at the top of the machine.

The jewels were on the reels, you can see a green jewel in the picture of the machine, on the third reel. You can also see that one green jewel and one blue jewel is lit. When a jewel landed on the line it would light one up on the LCD screen.

The standard play was to spin it off if you found the machine with 2 blue (25 coin bonus), 2 green (100 coin bonus), or 2 of the red jewels (1000 coin bonus) lit. Once you collected the bonus you made one more spin. Most of the time the LCD screen would come back blank, or maybe light up one jewel. But every once in a while it would come back with 2 blue, or 2 green, or 2 red lit.

The top line (1000 coin bonus) was hittable. Most of the time it ruined on you, but if you could float the swings that top line hit would come in. I hit it several times.

#2

The X-Factor is in the link.

http://www.pinrepair.com/slots/wms/xfactor.htm

You can see that the multiplier is on 2 and there are 8 stored power points. The power point symbols are on the first two reels. Anytime a power point lands in the screen a power point gets saved. Save ten power points and the multiplier goes to the next level. The multiplier maxes out at ten.

The X symbol is on the third reel. When you X'ed out you got paid according to where the multiplier was. If you caught triple bar-triple bar-X, and the multiplier was on 5 you got paid 200 coins, if the multiplier was on 6 you got paid 240 coins, etc.

A muliplier at 4, with 5 stored power points, was my playable number.

#3

Hi Mickey,

In an earlier thread, you mentioned being able to see the coin meters on the older Vision games. I found one of these machines, and could see three meters: Coin In, Coin Out, and Coin Drop. I assumed that Coin In was equal to the Coin Out (the return) plus the Coin Drop (the vig). But the values I recorded from this particular machine don't add up. The Coin Out value is significantly higher than the Coin In value, implying a return of about 140%.

This machine is not returning 140%, so I must going about this the wrong way.

#4

I can't remember how many digits were in those meters, perhaps 7 or 8. The top meter is the coin-in meter, the meter just below it is the coin-out meter. Forget the third meter which is totally irrelevant.

What you are dealing with, on this particular machine, is meters that have been wrapped around. And since you are dealing with a machine that is at least 13 years old, there is no telling how many times those meters have been wrapped around by now.

You, ma18ks, know how many digits are in those meters, I personally don't remember, but let's say there are 7 digits. When the coin-in meter reaches 9,999,999 coins, and then another coin is bet, that meter has no choice but to flip to 0,000,000. It's the same for the coin-out meter, once it reaches 9,999,999 and another coin is bet, it is going to flip to 0,000,000.

The disparity between the coin-in/coin-meters can be anywhere between 3% and 12% on a machine like a Wild Cherry Bonus Pie. So once those meters get wrapped around multiple times one can run into the situation which you describe above.

When those machines first came out in 1997 I didn't have the problem of the wrapped around meters because they all started at zero's and it takes a long time for a 2 or 3 coin machine to get that much coin-in/coin-out. It was at least a few years before I ran into the wrapped around meters. But at that time is wasn't that hard to figure out. I dont' remember the particulars of the first time I ran into the phenomenom, but I eventually did. So let's imagine it went like this:I ran into a coin-in meter that read 0,684,532 and a coin-out meter that read 9,980,986. All I had to do was add a digit to the coin-in meter. So I would divide 9,980,986 by 10,684,532 to get a payback of 93.4%.
But this was on machines which I had been tracking since they came out, so it wasn't that hard to figure out.

On my trip to the midwest in 2002, which only lasted a few months, I ran into wrapped around meters from hell. We're talking about meters that had been wrapped around 3, 4, 5 times, etc. I couldn't peg the machines that way. But I had the experience of already seeing a gillion spins on good paying and bad paying machines before I got to the midwest. So I could guess the payback by watching the ploppies play the machines.

This was a thing I did everywhere, and it's what you have to do with the machine you are dealing with. Record the coin-in/coin-out meters....and track them from that point forward.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ma18ks" <89109.nv@...> wrote:

Hi Mickey,

In an earlier thread, you mentioned being able to see the coin meters on the older Vision games. I found one of these machines, and could see three meters: Coin In, Coin Out, and Coin Drop. I assumed that Coin In was equal to the Coin Out (the return) plus the Coin Drop (the vig). But the values I recorded from this particular machine don't add up. The Coin Out value is significantly higher than the Coin In value, implying a return of about 140%.

This machine is not returning 140%, so I must going about this the >wrong way.

#5

My Alzheimer's ain't so bad today. I'm thinking there were only 6 digits in those Vision meters.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

I can't remember how many digits were in those meters, perhaps 7 or >8.

#6

Thanks, Mickey. This is what I suspected. The meters are only six digits, so they've rolled over a few times. Just like the odometer on my grandmother's 65 Malibu.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

I can't remember how many digits were in those meters, perhaps 7 or 8. The top meter is the coin-in meter, the meter just below it is the coin-out meter. Forget the third meter which is totally irrelevant.

What you are dealing with, on this particular machine, is meters that have been wrapped around. And since you are dealing with a machine that is at least 13 years old, there is no telling how many times those meters have been wrapped around by now.

#7

Yeah, you got it. Six digits only.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
> I can't remember how many digits were in those meters, perhaps 7 or >8.
>
>
My Alzheimer's ain't so bad today. I'm thinking there were only 6 digits in those Vision meters.

#8

Shopping Spree was an advantage slot from the Williams line.

http://www.pinrepair.com/slots/wms/shopspre.htm

Shopping Spree was the main symbol. You collected frequent shopping points whenever the shopping spree symbol landed in the window. Collect 50 points and you get a 20 coin bonus plus 10 free spins that paid double. The standard play was to spin it off in you found 40 points already collected.

#9

TRIPLE DIAMOND BASEBALL-A game from the IGT Vision Series. Click on the link, then click on the Triple Diamond Baseball machine to enlarge it. Then mouse the enlarged version to get a better look.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IGT-Slot-Machine-Triple-Diamond-Baseball-Vision-Series-LCD-Screen-/350057433786

You can see the meter in the top right hand corner of the LCD screen sitting on zero. There are three men on base. There are symbols on the third reel representing singles, doubles, triples and home runs. The meter climbs as those symbols land on the line and you drive runs in. Catch the home run symbol on the line and you get all the coins in the meter.

I would spin the play off betting one coin at a time when I found it with 25 or 30 coins in the meter.

#10

I couldn't find a picture for this one.

TIMES PAY - Another game from the IGT Vision Series, not to be construed with 5 Times Pay, 10 Times Pay, although the game could be found on these type machines. It was a game where every so often you got a multiplier like 2X, 3X, 4X, up to 7X, for a certain number of spins. The slang term machine pro's used for these games was "Coming Soon's." There was an LED screen at the top of the machine that took you through 3 phases as you were playing.

First phase-the LED screen would be flashing in green "Watch For."

Second phase- the LED screen would be flashing in red "Coming Soon."

Third phase-This was the Times Pay mode. The screen would be flashing how many spins you had left with the multiplier.

Besides coming in different games like, Double Diamond, Triple Diamond, Triple Double Diamond, there were many different configurations of coin-in to put the game through the three phases. I'm gonna use a Double Diamond Time Pay machine I used to play at the Flamingo/Laughlin (now Aquarius) as the example. All Time Pay machines worked like this, except with different configurations of coin-in. The Double Diamond at the Flamingo had an average 120 coin-in cycle to put it through the three phases.

to be continued....

#11

Times Pay continued....

In the "Watch For" phase there is always an exact number of coin-in to move it to the "Coming Soon" phase. In the "Coming Soon" phase you could trigger the game into the multiplier phase on the first spin or the 80th coin-in. The average was 40 coin-in to trigger the multiplier. This Double Diamond machine at the Flamingo had a 2X multiplier. You got 20 spins (40 coin-in betting two coins a spin). Once you go through the 40 coin-in at double pay the game reverts back to "Watch For." At that point all good hustlers cash out as there is no advantage playing straight through. The payback looked something like this:

"Watch For" phase= 40 coin-in.
"Coming Soon" phase = 40 coin-in.
80 coin-in X 68% = 54.4 coins returned.

"2X Pay" phase = 40 coin-in.
40X136% = 54.4 coins returned.

The total return would be 108.8 coins returned per 120 coins bet for a return of 90.67%. This is a lowballed number but it's close enough for the girls I go out with.

So how does one gain an advantage at this game? The main concept of advantage slots is OPM (other people's money). Suppose you walk up on this machine and the LED screen is flashing the red "Coming Soon." You wouldn't know exactly how many spins (coin-in)the prior player made into the Coming Soon phase. But you do know you can eliminate the 40 coin-in of the Watch For phase. So now the math looks like this:

Coming Soon phase = 40 coin-in.
40X 68%= 27.2 coins returned.

2X Pay phase = 40 coin-in.
40X136%=54.4 coins returned.

The total return would be 81.6 coins returned per 80 coins bet for a return of 102%. Now 102% is nothing to write home about but it's a lowballed number. The machine was probably in the 93% to 95% range. Whenever I walked up on this machine and it was in the Coming Soon phase I spun it off. I never knew how many spins into Coming Soon mode the prior player made but over time my coin-in probably looked something like this:

Coming Soon phase = 20 coin-in.
20X68%=13.6 coins returned.

2X Pay phase=40 coin in.
40X136%=54.4 coins returned.

The total return would be 68 coins returned per 60 coins bet for a return of 113%. Again, a lowballed number.

The Flamingo had lots of advantage slots at the time, Red Screen Bingo's, Bonus Playoff, Good Times, Slot Bingo, Bonus Pie, Mystery Bonus, Double Diamond Mine, Five Card Instant Bingo, Jackpot Cards, and a 14 machine linked bank of Flush Attack at the rear of the casino next to the River Walk. It was worth my time sometimes to hang out at the Flamingo on it's busier days, and pick up as many advantage plays as I could. Besides the money there were other benefits. Their slot club was "don't ask, won't tell" but I never got turned down for a meal comp. And sometimes, if I had a busy day where I picked up a lot of advantage play and ran heavy action, they would fire a mailer at me with a 3 to 5 day room comp, which I would work into my Laughlin RFB 362 strategy.

The bigger the multiplier the more lucrative the game could be. The biggest multiplier I ever seen was 7X on a two-coin $5 denom Triple Double Diamond Machine at the Grand Victoria in Elgin, Illinois. I arrived at Elgin to find the advantage slots were already monopolized by friends. There were 4 of those $5 Times Pay machines, but Danny L., a legendary machine pro had a small crew staking the machines out the whole time the casino was open. Another crew I knew from Laughlin had the rest of the advantage slots staked out. I talked to Danny and the other crew for awhile, but out of courtesy I pulled out of the spot.

I ran into Danny a couple of years later in Laughlin and he told me he made a couple of $50,000 spins on those machines.

#12

MYSTERY BONUS - Another game from the IGT Visions series. They worked the same way as the Times Pay Games. The one I will use as an example was in the Ramada Express (now Tropicana Express). It was a two-coin $1 Five Times Pay game and every so often you were awarded a random bonus between 50 and 100 coins.

There was a bar in about the center of the Ramada. It was a little high roller room of sorts, but it wasn't completely walled in so you could see around the casino pretty good. It was a hustler hangout. We'd sit at the bar drinking coffee or coke, trading war stories or whatever, and we could keep an eye on any action the advantage slots located around the bar were getting.

There was even $2 and $5 10/7 DB in the room. It was way above my bankroll so I left it alone. But those machines didn't get much action. I figured the Vegas pros didn't pound it because they didn't know that locals got 5X CB. Non-locals only got .06666%, but locals got .3333%. And one day a month we got .6666%. I was paying $35 a year for a mailbox at the Riverside at the time. I think if the Vegas pros knew that they would have pounded the 10/7 out of the room.

The configuration on the Mystery Bonus was 450 coin-in to move it from the "Watch for" phase into the "Coming Soon" phase. Then you could trigger the Mystery Bonus on anywhere from the first coin-in to the 200th coin-in. The average was 100 coin-in. The average bonus was 75 coins (50 + 100 divided by two = 75).

I always used 90% overall payback to do approximate calculations on advantage slots. But in the case of the Ramada it wasn't an approximate calculation. Their dollar slot were literally 90 percenters. If you run $1000 in action on one of their dollar slots, go grab a house phone and call a slot host. They'll come running to give you a room comp for the night. That's how it was then anyway.

I had more room comp than I could use anyway. Sometimes I would have two rooms for the night because of overlapping offers. One casino might send me a mailer for the 21st, 22nd and 23rd of the month, while another one would send me a mailer for the 23rd and 24th. So on the 23rd I would have two rooms for the night.

The Ramada, Pioneer, River Palms and the Riverside would use any excuse in the world to send you room comp mailers.

"Come celebrate Easter...."
"Come celebrate Memorial Day...."
"Come celebrate Cinco De Mayo...."
"Come celebrate our 9th anniversay...."

So on and So on. We used to make jokes about it like "Come celebrate St. Francis of Assisi's birthday! Had he lived he would be 804 years old!"

Anyways, on the Mystery Bonus game an average 550 coin-in got a 75 coin bonus. Anytime a ploppie would put it into "Coming Soon" mode then get up and leave I was on it like white of rice. It was a 51%+ advantage to spin it off.

I had another trick the other hustler's didn't have. You could see the coin-in/coin-out meters just to the right of the third reel. Anytime I finished a play I would write down where the coin-in meter was at. And every so often I would go by and check how many coin-in had been made by the tourists since the last time the Mystery Bonus was awarded. I got a lot of plays where I only had to do 20 or 30 coin in to trigger the "Coming Soon" phase.

#13

MYSTERY BONUS - I got carried away with telling stories here instead of showing the approximate math of Mystery Bonus, plus a few other things.

"Watch For" phase = 450 coin-in
"Coming Soon" phase = Average 100 coin-in.
Average "Mystery Bonus" = 75 coins.
75/550 = 13.6%
90% minus 13.6% = 76.4%

At the Ramada, when I found the LED screen of this particular Mystery Bonus machine flashing the red "Coming Soon", I knew I had a big overlay through collecting the Mystery Bonus because I could eliminate the 450 coin-in from the "Watch For" phase.

I never knew how many coin-in into the Coming Soon phase that the prior player made unless I was sitting there watching. But let's assume the last spin the prior player made tripped it into Coming Soon. The math would look like this:

"Coming Soon" phase - Average 100 coin-in.
Average "Mystery Bonus" = 75 coins.
75/100 = 75%
Line Pays = 76.4%
75% plus 76.4% = 151.4%.

If there are still any of these machines around one cannot just assume because it's flashing the red "Coming Soon" that you have an advantage. You have to do your homework. For instance, in the case above, what if it was just the opposite, 100 coin-in in the green "Watch For" phase, and an average 450 coin-in in the red "Coming Soon" phase?" In this case you would have to count down a ploppie while they played and hope they left a play.

If you were to find one of these machines somewhere how would you figure out the math without costing yourself a bunch of money? I did it by counting down ploppies while they played. The "Watch For" phase is easy because there is always an exact number of coin-in to put it into the "Coming Soon" phase.

The "Coming Soon" phase requires a little more effort. I did it by counting down ploppies as they played and recording the stats.

#14

TEMPERATURE'S RISING - From the IGT Vision Series. This game is based on coin-out, not coin-in. The LED screen will have a temperature gauge on it. Hit a line pay for 5 coins and the temperature on the gauge will go up 5 degrees. Hit for 10 coins and the gauge will go up 10 degrees, hit for 100 coins and the gauge will go up 100 degrees, etc.

So we'll use a two-coin dollar IGT Ten Times Pay machine with a temperature gauge on it. Move the gauge up to 600 degrees and you get a 100 coin bonus. On a 90% machine the math would look like this:

100/600 = 16.67% of payback is in the bonus.
90% minus 16.67% = 73.3% of payback is in line pays.
16.67% + 73.3% = 90%

The 90% holds up because of one feature of the machine. Let's say you got real lucky, caught lighting in a bottle by catching the top line pay, 10X-10X-10X, betting two coins. You look down and the payscale says it pays 10,000 coins. You are actually going to get paid at least 11,600 coins because the temperature gauge will wrap around at least 16 times, maybe 17 times depending on where the temperature was at when you caught the top line pay, so you collect all those 100 coin bonuses too. This is true of the lesser pays too. Any time you wrap the gauge around you get those multiple 100 coin bonuses.

So let's see if we can find the breakeven point. The easy way for me is to figure the cost of each one-coin spin. In this case it's 1 minus .733 = 26.7 cents to put 1 degree in the temperature gauge. The cost to put 375 degrees in the temperature gauge would be right at $100.

600 minus 375 = a breakeven point of 225 degrees in the temperature gauge. But there is no way I would play the machine on that low a number. I'm breaking even if I don't pull the money out of my pocket-and a Ten Times Pay machine has a ton of variance. No, I would play it with about 400 degrees already in the gauge. The average cost would be about $53 to chase a $100 bonus. My time has to be worth something.

Unless there is a big chop on the payscale I spin these plays off one coin at a time to get into the long run on the line pays twice as fast.

#15

While out working today I had an epiphany. I think I caught myself in a 15 year math mistake. The mistake was in my favor though but it probably cost me some plays. I think I overestimated the cost of spinning off those Temperature's Risings. The 100 coin bonus here is coin-out too. So I think I should have added the 600 plus 100 then divided 100 by 700 to get the payback percentage of the bonus. I'm pretty good at math but I damn sure ain't no Michael Shackelford. Oh, well. To late now. It's been 5 years since I played a Termperature's Rising.

Time for a story. This was sometime about 2000 or 2001. I had a friend, an ex-cab driver in Vegas, who played the advantage slots. He had to go to Denver to settle a traffic case. He told me he would be back in a week. It was 6 weeks before he got back. I thought he went to jail. But he had a different story to tell. While settling his case he went up to Blackhawk to see if there were any advantage slots. He walked in the door of a casino and slot techs were installing 6 dollar Temmperature's Rising's with 100 coin bonuses.

He had them all to himself. No other hustler's around. The ploppies gave the new machines lots of action. He knocked them for $50,000. In those small houses in Blackhawk that's really cutting into a casino's bottom line. They finally got wise and knocked the bonuses down.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

TEMPERATURE'S RISING - So we'll use a two-coin dollar IGT Ten Times Pay machine with a temperature gauge on it. Move the gauge up to 600 degrees and you get a 100 coin bonus. On a 90% machine the math would look like this:

100/600 = 16.67% of payback is in the bonus.
90% minus 16.67% = 73.3% of payback is in line pays.
16.67% + 73.3% = 90%

#16

QUICK STRIKE--From posts I've read I think I've ticked some folks off by only writing about extinct advantage plays. So we may as well flip the coin over and tick some folks off for writing about a current advantage play. I've never played a Quick Strike. That's how long I've been out of Nevada. When NOTI put up a youtube video of the Alice In Wonderland slot I did some snooping around on related videos and found the Quick Strike video, made by someone called Real Casino Hustler (RCH). I was able to tell what was going on by watching this video that has had over 7700 views in one year and appears to be getting about 200 views per week. So why should I keep my mouth shut?

I automatically recognized the game as a variant of Lucky Coin Bonus System that debuted at the Mandalay Bay opening. LCBS has come in many forms over the years. The name itself gives a clue as to how it works. You don't have to hit a line pay to get the progressive meter. You just have to bet the lucky coin. In the video our hero, RCH, is playing a penny denom Quick Strike. He's actually playing three games at once. He's trying to hit line pays, trying to hit the Major progressive, and trying to hit the Mini progressive. But he's going to cash out once he hits the Mini. His advice is to play the game when you find the Mini meter at $48 or higher, which is good. But his advice that the Mini usually hits between $47 and $50 it not so good. If that were the case then a better name for the game would be Slow Strike. His advice that the Mini progressive meter runs at 1% is good because I counted him down. He's making a 30 cent bet per spin. I was able to determine that the Major meter runs at .3333%. Here's the video. Pay attention to the Mini jackpot and just below where it says "Range-$25-$50.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ceZI4z8dg

I'll continue in the next post.

#17

I'm gonna have to send this in several posts. The internet signal in this hotel room keeps breaking up and I'm doing a bunch of typing for nothing.

Explanation of Luck Coin. In the video, below the mini meter it says Range -$25-$50. That means the meter starts at $25 and will go no higher than $50. So let's imagine that the mini has just been hit and resets at $25. At this time the RNG selects a random coin number (but with parameters). Whoever bets that coin gets the jackpot. So let's figure out how many coin numbers there are. A 1% meter means a $1 wager moves the meter one penny. Consequently, a $2500 wager would move the meter $25. A $2500 wager is 250,000 coins. So the RNG will select a coin number between 1 and 250,000. Whoever bets that coin number gets the jackpot. For example, if the RNG selects coin #17, and on your very first spin, betting 30 cents, Voila! You are awarded the jackpot because coin #17 was in the block of 30 coins you wagered. Nice hit!

Next post.

#18

QUICK STRIKE-ANALYZING THE GAME

1. Assing an overall payback value of 90% (with a margin of error of plus 4% or minus 3%).

2. Determine what the average mini jackpot value is by adding the lower parameter, $25, to the upper parameter, $50, then dividing by 2. Average mini jackpot value is $37.50.

3. Determine the wager necessary to drive the meter from $25 to $37.50. It's a 1% meter so 12.5 X 100 equals $1250.

4. Determine how much payback the Mini represents. 37.5/1250 = 3%.

5. Discount 3% from the overall payback. That leaves 87%.

Note: The Major jackpot represents 1% of the payback. Two-thirds of it is in the $250 it starts at, and one-third is in the meter. You can't say you have total equity in the Major meter because you will cash out when you hit the Mini. But this is offset by the extra money in the major meter. I'll deal with plays on the major meter at another time.

6. Determine, with a playable number of $48, the average payoff for betting the luck coin by adding the lower parameter, $48, to the upper parameter, $50, and dividing by 2. Average value is $49.

7. Determine how much wager it takes to move the meter to $49. It's a 1% meter so $100 in action does the trick.

8. Determine how much payback $49 represents. 49/100 = 49%.

9. Add 49% to 87%.

A playable number of $48 comes in at 136%
A playable number of $47.50 comes in at 126%
A playable number of $47 comes in at 119%
A playable number of $46.50 comes in at 114%
A playable number of $46.00 comes in at 111%

Playing at $48 or higher virtually guarantee's no losing plays. Playing at $46 will show a profit in the long term, but you will have many losing plays.

Next post....

#19

QUICK STRIKE-The margin of error will mostly be in your favor as games like this are usually in the 92% to 94% range. But if you don't trust the particular casino then stick to the upper playable numbers. RCH said he was averaging a $30 earn with a playable number of $48. I would say it's a $30 earn plus an occasional longshot hit. By betting just 30 cents, RCH is taking the money swings out of the game by getting a better average on the line pays. But this low-bet strategy would be terrible if the machines are linked together-if that's the case then blast away at max bet playing as fast as possible. Whoever gets in the biggest blocks of coins with the fastest speed is the winner in these contests.

Hold it! I've got the window open and I'm hearing a lonesome whistle blow. The engineer always blows the horn twice before crossing a roadway. God, I wish I was on that damn train. No I don't. I'm to old for that crap. I can't even defend myself anymore. Growing old ain't for sissies. Ain't that what Kathrine Hepburn said? Forget it, Mickey, and get back to work.

I always back up my approximate calculations with empirical data. On every play I get, I would record where the meter was at when I started, where it was at when I hit it. And how much I won or lost on the play. I would also take note of any longshot hits I made. In the video, RCH appears to have started the play somewhere around $47.56....and the play ends at $49.26. The meter rise was $1.70. So he made a $170 wager. In a post below the video he says he put $40 in the machine, made a $100 longshot hit, and cashed out a $169.25 ticket. The first thing I would do here, is cull out the $100 hit. In such a short sample space it's a skewed stat. So $69.25 minus $49.26 is $19.99. Putting $40 in the machine means he got dropped for $20.01 on a $170 wager. Surprisingly, that's only an 11.77% drop. I put stats like this on a spreadsheet and use running totals to monitor the drop. The more I can zero in on the actual payback the more I can calculate just how low a playable number I can take.

For those of you who play strong video poker, a game like this is a way to sandwich your video poker play between slot play that has a much higher theo. But stick to the playable numbers.

That damn freight train ticked me off. Rob, I think I'm going to have to have a few Moose Drools tonight in your honor. Take care, brother. Now everybody put your vpFREE patches on and go out and play them Quick Strikes.

#20

I've been playing these for a few years now in California, Mickey. Of course, I didn't do the math work that you did, but just experimented a little bit and then went by "feel". I have found several variations of meter rise on the mini jackpot. I like to have 1%, but I have also found .8%, .6%, and even .5%. On the other end, I've found like 1.2% or 1.3%. In my mind, my goal has been to essentially break even, including my cashback and mailers, and show some slot action. Many that I play are $10-$20, and I come in at just under $17, and I won't play if it is under .8% meter rise on the mini.

I remember one good night there were these new machines that are $100-$200, and I found one at $192, with a 1.2% meter. I popped it on the third pull. Bingo, Merry Christmas.

Another two memorable plays were almost exactly the same situation, but at two different casinos. I walked up to the bank in each case, and the mini at an open seat was barely under $48 on a 25-50 game. Surprisingly, on both sides of this open seat was a player, banging away for a $25 or $26 mini. I almost felt guilty, sat down at the open seat between the other two players, and snapped off $48 almost immediately. Incredible. God bless their little clueless ploppy souls.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

QUICK STRIKE--