vpFREE2 Forums

[acvpp] Old Grumpy Is Back

You would think I would be happy having hit two RF in one week at
Borgata..but oh no!

I still have trouble dealing with my VP neighbors. First I get the couple
where one sits in front of the machine and the other sits next to them and
reaches over and presses the button.

Then there was a guy who is playing and surrounded by three buddies who are
not only loud ..but are giving him bad advice. I don't know what bothers me
more!

And finally an older woman sit down a few seats away drenched in perfume.
Having seasonal allergies I was praying for a cigar smoker to sit down next to
her so my lungs could get a break!...Pee Yew!....and all in the same day.

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You would think I would be happy having hit two RF in one week at
Borgata..but oh no!

I still have trouble dealing with my VP neighbors. First I get the

couple

where one sits in front of the machine and the other sits next to

them and

reaches over and presses the button.

Then there was a guy who is playing and surrounded by three

buddies who are

not only loud ..but are giving him bad advice. I don't know what

bothers me

more!

And finally an older woman sit down a few seats away drenched in

perfume.

Having seasonal allergies I was praying for a cigar smoker to sit

down next to

her so my lungs could get a break!...Pee Yew!....and all in the

same day.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@A... wrote:

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----------------------------------------------------------
Since there are no Rules in the casinos regarding these things that
bother you, maybe this suggestion would help.

Have a T-shirt made showing on the back "When I'm playing, please
play somewhere else." or "If you want to play next to me, behave as
I expect you to.". :>>

Hope this helps!

I was recently in the Mostly Short Pay Indian Casino near my home playing when a man sat
next to me and started playing nickel JoB (like me). He was pretty much playing by the seat
of his pants when his two friends (they were all golden age gentlemen) came up and then
decided to coach him. It didn't really upset me because after awhile, I found their comments
hilarious. One guy kept naming the card or hand he wanted: "C'mon, get the jack!" "C'mon
flush!" "That's what I would hold!" (2 card RF, breaking a high pair) This went on for an hour.

I need a life.

Drew

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@A... wrote:
  
> I still have trouble dealing with my VP neighbors.

If I hit 2 royals in a week a gorilla family, all drenched in perfume
and smoking cigars could sit next seats....wouldn't bother me.

I have had a chance to reflect on that post on AC group. The gorillas
could bring their cousins and neighbors too. Just give me those
royals...

Cheers....Jeep
.

You would think I would be happy having hit two RF in one week at
Borgata..but oh no!

finally an older woman sit down a few seats away drenched in perfume.

Having seasonal allergies I was praying for a cigar smoker to sit

down next to

her so my lungs could get a break!...Pee Yew!....and all in the same

day.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@A... wrote:

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<golden age>>

Thank you. I was thinking it was the tin age and I was rusting out!!!!

My broken foot is taking a very long time to heal - doctor was nice enough to not say, "Well, what do you expect from such old bones?"

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

I haven't had a .25 Royal since May 17th (playing about $10,000 coin in per day on average) AND I would actually prefer another 6 months WITHOUT one IF I could have all my playing sessions without cigarette OR cigar smokers.

The smoke and extremely rude, inconsiderate smokers are getting so bad that I am actually considering giving up Video Poker. In my opinion the Fiesta (Rancho) is one of the worst because (1) the ventilation there is terrible and (2) the smokers there appear the most inconsiderate of anyone else's air. And in my opinion cigars should be totally banned inside any enclosed space. Perfume may be nauseating or unpleasant, but to my knowledge no study has shown that second hand perfume smelling is hazardous to your health. And I would welcome the gorillas because it is likely that they will not smoke.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 1:18 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: [acvpp] Old Grumpy Is Back

If I hit 2 royals in a week a gorilla family, all drenched in perfume
and smoking cigars could sit next seats....wouldn't bother me.

I have had a chance to reflect on that post on AC group. The gorillas
could bring their cousins and neighbors too. Just give me those
royals...

Cheers....Jeep
.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, BANDSTAND54@A... wrote:

You would think I would be happy having hit two RF in one week at
Borgata..but oh no!

finally an older woman sit down a few seats away drenched in perfume.

Having seasonal allergies I was praying for a cigar smoker to sit

down next to

her so my lungs could get a break!...Pee Yew!....and all in the same

day.

Ralph

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

I haven't had a .25 Royal since May 17th (playing about $10,000 coin

in per

day on average)

I figure you are behind about 16 royal cycles. Is this right? What are
the odds?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

Assuming a RF cycle of 40400 and 646400 games, the probability is
approximately 1 in 8.888 million, pretty damn low.

We had discussed the probabilities of not hitting any RF in 9 cycles a
few weeks ago, and had concluded that given the scale of the list it
was not an unexpected event, but no RF in 16 cycles is certainly less
probable.

JBQ

···

On 8/14/05, ozymandias77096 <ugwf@hal-pc.org> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:
> I haven't had a .25 Royal since May 17th (playing about $10,000 coin
in per
> day on average)

I figure you are behind about 16 royal cycles. Is this right? What are
the odds?

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

Actually I am at 9+ for quarters. I have some .05 in there as part of my total coin in. About 400,000 .25 hands at last count with no Royal.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "ozymandias77096" <ugwf@hal-pc.org>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:26 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Ednar's Royal Drought

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ednar" <ednar@k...> wrote:

I haven't had a .25 Royal since May 17th (playing about $10,000 coin

in per

day on average)

I figure you are behind about 16 royal cycles. Is this right? What are
the odds?

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

Ednar said:

Actually I am at 9+ (cycles)for quarters. I have

some .05 in there as part of
my
total coin in. About 400,000 .25 hands at last count
with no Royal.>>>

I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin. It is human nature to only report wins
and try to forget the losses.

Ednar, Maybe this has already been reported in this
thread. If not, do you mind stating how much of a
bankroll(excluding comps) hit you have incurred during
this drought?

What VP game or games do you play.

Thanks

···

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

<<I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin. It is human nature to only report wins
and try to forget the losses.>>

I list both. Right now we are down about $30,000 (including all cash benefits) for the year in spite of finally hitting a $4000 royal Thursday, our first royal since May 29. Our problem is that we play too wide of a range of denominations. Most often play $2 Five Play NSUD or $5 JoB, but Brad plays quarters at the Palms when he is just killing time. And sprinkled in is some $2 8/5 Bonus, 50-cent and $1 Multi-Strike, and single-line $1 DB. All are 100%+ plays counting game and cash benefits (CB, bounceback, giftcards, etc.) - but not counting comps. We have had only 7 royals this year - and not enough of the $8,000 and $20,000 variety!!!!

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

I guess I should have added to my last post on this subject that although losing isn't as much fun as winning we are not discouraged and do not plan to change what we are doing. We've had bad streaks before and the math has "righted" things eventually. In 14 years of playing VP we have never had a losing year - and have lots of "super win" years. So even if we do have a losing year sometime - and it won't surprise us if we do - we won't change our plan. For one thing we have won so much in the past that even a "bad" losing year wouldn't wipe out 14 years of wins. And it helps that we have a large enough bankroll - actually more than enough to cover losses at our present level of play.

Nothing is more comforting than a belief in the math - and a larger than adequate bankroll!!!!

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

"gambling losses, addiction and risk of ruin" aren't
taboo on vpFREE. In fact, subject to good taste
considerations, there aren't any taboo subjects on
vpFREE, unless/until they prove counter-productive
or disruptive.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 14 Aug 2005 at 17:18, sibercat wrote:

I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin.

I only play "inherently" positive games (FPDW, FPJW, 10/7DB) and NSUD and JOB progressives when positive. My wife and I combine our bankroll and our statistics so I have to break these out by hand. However, a brief analysis of my records indicate that about 85% of the play has been on FPDW, FPJW (4000 and 4700) and 10/7DB. The remainder (15%) has been on progressives. I am down about $8,000 INCLUDING CASH BACK. My worst locations in order are Fiesta Rancho, MSS, Tuscany and then Santa Fe. In this case it is all the locations with the most positive games.

I was ahead about $7000 before this slide began so for the year (together with my wife's play) we are still positive. If you consider the value of the comps I have received (and we use a number that is what we would pay.... not the inflated casino's value) we are way ahead.

I mentioned this loss and continue to update the group on the progress because I believe it is very important for people to see that there are some very large potential negative swings that positive games can have. I also believe this is a clear example of the importance of bankroll. Too many people think that if they have lets say, $7,000 that they will never run out of money if they only play .25 FPDW. That is NOT necessarily the case. Many people also seem to think that if the ROR for a game is $7,000 that after they have lost $6,999 they are "due" to hit. Again this is also not the case. But that is a different subject for a different time.

I am glad you found this to be interesting. Most people do not tell you about their slumps because it sounds too much like whining..... Which I guess it is to some extent....

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "sibercat" <glenbob@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ednar's Royal Drought

Ednar said:

Actually I am at 9+ (cycles)for quarters. I have

some .05 in there as part of
my
total coin in. About 400,000 .25 hands at last count
with no Royal.>>>

I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin. It is human nature to only report wins
and try to forget the losses.

Ednar, Maybe this has already been reported in this
thread. If not, do you mind stating how much of a
bankroll(excluding comps) hit you have incurred during
this drought?

What VP game or games do you play.

Thanks

Jean's numbers show the differences between my .25 slump and her dollars (and higher) slump. It sounds like our "slumps" are very similar just in different denominations. I just checked our Royals page and for the year we have had 30. BUT this is 1 dollar, 8 quarter and 21 nickels. In previous years our Royals were mostly of .25 denomination. However some of the best games this year for us have been nickel based. The three years previous our number of Royals were 55, 74 and 55.

But I think this confirms again that bankroll is very important in order to weather the storms that WILL come.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ednar's Royal Drought

<<I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin. It is human nature to only report wins
and try to forget the losses.>>

I list both. Right now we are down about $30,000 (including all cash
benefits) for the year in spite of finally hitting a $4000 royal Thursday,
our first royal since May 29. Our problem is that we play too wide of a
range of denominations. Most often play $2 Five Play NSUD or $5 JoB, but
Brad plays quarters at the Palms when he is just killing time. And
sprinkled in is some $2 8/5 Bonus, 50-cent and $1 Multi-Strike, and
single-line $1 DB. All are 100%+ plays counting game and cash benefits (CB,
bounceback, giftcards, etc.) - but not counting comps. We have had only 7
royals this year - and not enough of the $8,000 and $20,000 variety!!!!

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
             Updated Second Edition of
            "The Frugal Gambler."

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

DITTO!!!! And we are ahead for 7 years as well although I imagine our bankroll is not as large.... :slight_smile:

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ednar's Royal Drought

I guess I should have added to my last post on this subject that although
losing isn't as much fun as winning we are not discouraged and do not plan
to change what we are doing. We've had bad streaks before and the math has
"righted" things eventually. In 14 years of playing VP we have never had a
losing year - and have lots of "super win" years. So even if we do have a
losing year sometime - and it won't surprise us if we do - we won't change
our plan. For one thing we have won so much in the past that even a "bad"
losing year wouldn't wipe out 14 years of wins. And it helps that we have a
large enough bankroll - actually more than enough to cover losses at our
present level of play.

Nothing is more comforting than a belief in the math - and a larger than
adequate bankroll!!!!
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards.
NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
             Updated Second Edition of
            "The Frugal Gambler."

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

OOPS. Minor clarification. I do play some "short stuff" without a progressive IF the cb and bounce back makes it worth while.....

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "ednar" <ednar@kconline.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ednar's Royal Drought

I only play "inherently" positive games (FPDW, FPJW, 10/7DB) and NSUD and
JOB progressives when positive. My wife and I combine our bankroll and our
statistics so I have to break these out by hand. However, a brief analysis
of my records indicate that about 85% of the play has been on FPDW, FPJW
(4000 and 4700) and 10/7DB. The remainder (15%) has been on progressives. I
am down about $8,000 INCLUDING CASH BACK. My worst locations in order are
Fiesta Rancho, MSS, Tuscany and then Santa Fe. In this case it is all the
locations with the most positive games.

I was ahead about $7000 before this slide began so for the year (together
with my wife's play) we are still positive. If you consider the value of the
comps I have received (and we use a number that is what we would pay.... not
the inflated casino's value) we are way ahead.

I mentioned this loss and continue to update the group on the progress
because I believe it is very important for people to see that there are some
very large potential negative swings that positive games can have. I also
believe this is a clear example of the importance of bankroll. Too many
people think that if they have lets say, $7,000 that they will never run out
of money if they only play .25 FPDW. That is NOT necessarily the case. Many
people also seem to think that if the ROR for a game is $7,000 that after
they have lost $6,999 they are "due" to hit. Again this is also not the
case. But that is a different subject for a different time.

I am glad you found this to be interesting. Most people do not tell you
about their slumps because it sounds too much like whining..... Which I
guess it is to some extent....

----- Original Message ----- From: "sibercat" <glenbob@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Ednar's Royal Drought

Ednar said:

Actually I am at 9+ (cycles)for quarters. I have

some .05 in there as part of
my
total coin in. About 400,000 .25 hands at last count
with no Royal.>>>

I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin. It is human nature to only report wins
and try to forget the losses.

Ednar, Maybe this has already been reported in this
thread. If not, do you mind stating how much of a
bankroll(excluding comps) hit you have incurred during
this drought?

What VP game or games do you play.

Thanks

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

I was going to keep my mouth shut on this thread, but here goes:
I completely sympathize with Ednar, since my partner and I are in the same boat. We moved to Las Vegas in late 1998. We played exclusively .25 FPDW at the various Coast properties, Silverton, and Nevada Landing (in Jean, NV). Every year was a winning year -- probably more than we deserved -- every year through 2002. When Coast dropped their FPDW, we moved to Texas Station. We couldn't hit a thing there (2003 was our first losing year). I got fed up with Texas for various non-gaming reasons and at times started playing NSUD -- sometimes at .50 -- at the Suncoast and Rampart. Bad move -- I lost a ton there, and we still couldn't hit anything at Texas. (I had a total of ONE royal in 2004 -- at .25 NSUD at the Suncoast.) This year, we decided to go back to .25 FPDW at the Fiesta Rancho, progressive machines when available. I have not had a royal there yet in 2005.
Ednar is right when he says $7000 is not sufficient to play .25 FPDW forever. Oh, sure, our initial bankroll of $3000 lasted about five years, but that was when Coast had oodles of multiple point months (we almost always redeemed our points for cash instead of comps, which added to the bankroll). Since Stations and Fiesta don't even have cashback (and with their new policy, the comps come slowly to a .25 player even with multiple points -- and don't forget they've eliminated discretionary comps), I've come to the conclusion that it's next to impossible to win.
I know I'm in the midst of a long losing streak (and probably sounding like I'm whining), but it's just so depressing to walk into the Fiesta and lose $300 or so between us in just an hour or two --- night after night after night. Especially when we were so used to winning.
Just a few years ago, even if we weren't hitting royals or deuces, we'd see other folks hitting them all the time. Now I hardly see anyone getting anything, and the reports on this list and Skip's list seem to confirm this. Too many people who know what they are doing seem to be in long losing streaks. It was not like this five years ago.
I don't want to suggest the games are rigged -- if they were, I think others would have been suggesting this more forcefully. But we are getting very frustrated! On the other hand, the house we bought here in 2001 has about doubled in value, so maybe that's the silver lining should we decide to leave Las Vegas.
John read this post before I decided whether to send it, and he said to advise people who were thinking of moving here to think twice about it!
-- Steve in LV

Are you referring to progressives when you include 8/5 bonus at 100%+
with cash back, if not which casino has 0.9%+ cash back.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:

sprinkled in is some $2 8/5 Bonus, 50-cent and $1 Multi-Strike, and
single-line $1 DB. All are 100%+ plays counting game and cash
benefits (CB,
bounceback, giftcards, etc.) - but not counting comps.

<<I applaud Ednar for reporting his VP results to the
group. The thread points to subjects that appear to be
taboo in this group: gambling losses, addiction and
risk of ruin. It is human nature to only report wins
and try to forget the losses.>>

I list both. Right now we are down about $30,000 (including all cash
benefits) for the year in spite of finally hitting a $4000 royal

Thursday,

our first royal since May 29. Our problem is that we play too wide

of a

range of denominations. Most often play $2 Five Play NSUD or $5

JoB, but

Brad plays quarters at the Palms when he is just killing time. And
sprinkled in is some $2 8/5 Bonus, 50-cent and $1 Multi-Strike, and
single-line $1 DB. All are 100%+ plays counting game and cash

benefits (CB,

bounceback, giftcards, etc.) - but not counting comps. We have had

only 7

royals this year - and not enough of the $8,000 and $20,000 variety!!!!

I have one royal in my last 7 cycles. Playing single line AC Joker and
JW2, I have not had any 5K in probably 6 cycles (on the latter it's
not such a big deal, but I'm not making 4Ks either, and that's a
117-hand cycle). Playing Big Split Poker, which is a very short royal
cycle, I have one royal in maybe 8 cycles. I have yet to make my first
royal playing 5-play multistrike (and bricked a RF4 5 times on the top
line, and have over half a cycle on the top line alone)in close to 4
cycles.

Last year, I had 5 $8K royals in ten days-and was $5K loser, playing
nothing more volatile than NSUD.

I have had six losing months in a row, which is not impossible, but
most of my bankroll goes into making lower variance, higher certainty
plays.

Sometimes, it's hard not to take the results personally. Then I
remember how much I won when learning to play and playing junk, and
two streaks at one casino where I made at least one royal every time I
played (sometimes 2) in a month. Then, there was the AC play, where
waiting for my turn on the featured machine, I hit a RF for $20 K in 3
min. There was the time in CA, I drove through the desert and hit one
for $25K-also in 3 minutes-and got walked out by security.

I know one pro who is down 10 royals playing 5-line NSUD this year.
Just a sick number. I haven't had a royal playing 5-line Deuces in
over a year, and these days lose 8% to the drop on average.

I have heard of pros playing 10/7 at Coast, with the .5% card, losing
8-9 royals straight. I have heard of one -$35K swing playing $1 FPDW
with .25% on the card. One aging 10/7 hustler told me a couple of
years back he wasn't profitable for the year until 12/23 or something
like that. A couple of years ago, I was playing part time, and won
$45K the last six weeks to get me to even-playing $1 and $2 stuff. I
know one pro who found a $2 101% Joker 3-liner and lost $65K playing it.

The most frustrating thing is that there have been a plethora of great
plays this summer, and I'm getting totally whacked at almost all of
them. Much better than last summer, where I did well playing marginal
stuff. But this is the business we've chosen, Michael...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote: