Fiesta Rancho now has about ten new TITO uprights
that have 25c, 50c, $1 FPDW and 10/7 DB. The $1
10/7 DB is a progressive.
These new games replaced the Bob Dancer machines
that were near the sportsbook.
The new machines are fast and were getting a lot
of play today.
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Fiesta Rancho now has about ten new TITO uprights
that have 25c, 50c, $1 FPDW and 10/7 DB. The $1
10/7 DB is a progressive.These new games replaced the Bob Dancer machines
that were near the sportsbook.
There's a message on another VP Message Board that these machines do
not have $1 FPDW, just $1 10/7 DB and 10/6 DDB...
Can someone confirm?
Don the Dentist
Hey Doc,
I'm headed out that way in a few and will stop in and
confirm, be back in about an hour
Later,
cool hand luke
> Fiesta Rancho now has about ten new TITO uprights
> that have 25c, 50c, $1 FPDW and 10/7 DB. The $1
> 10/7 DB is a progressive.
>
> These new games replaced the Bob Dancer machines
> that were near the sportsbook.There's a message on another VP Message Board that these machines
do
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dds2124" <dds6@c...> wrote:
not have $1 FPDW, just $1 10/7 DB and 10/6 DDB...
Can someone confirm?
Don the Dentist
Ok here is the scoop on the new machines. There are
14 TITO machines that have replaced to old Bob Dancer
machines in .25 .50 1.00 these machines have the $2
for 1 point stickers on them. At .25 the are FPDW BUT
if you go up to .50 1.00 the FPDW vanish from the
screen and the only games offered at these levels
are DB and DDB one or both of these were progressives,
don't remember for sure but one was.
Now there are also 8 new TITO machines that replaced
the .25 FPDW progressives that were to the side of the
old Bob Dancer machines. These have .25 .50 and 1.00
deuces BUT at .25 and .50 they pay 4000, 1000, 100,
60, 50, 20, 20, 15, 10, 5 for only a 97.58% payback!!!
At 1.00 the payout 4000, 1000, 125, 75, 45, 20, 20, 15,
10, 5 for only a 98.91% payback. These machines had no
$2 for one point sticker on them. Oddly enough these
machines were being played by many at the .25 cent level,
while nobody was playing at the .25 FPDW Bob Dancer
replacements!!! Go figure.
I ran into this type of thing once before. The Data base
here said one of the casinos on the CA/NV border (don't
remember which one now) has 1.00 FPDW. while passing
through one night about a month ago I stopped to give them
a look see, as they were the only ones listed in the state.
I got a little brave and tried a few games, lost about 50.00
and then noticed that although at first glance they appeared
to be FPDW 45, 25 for sf and 4k they only paid 100 for wrf
and 60 for 5k!!! I learned my lesson that night to check ALL
levels from then on!!!
Hope this clears up this issue and helps out, they still have
not allowed my post to you out yet, hope my private emails
to you did get out to you. I will copy and paste this to the
main group also for whenever they clear my messages to be posted.
If you like you my post it on the site now if you are getting
these private emails ahead of time. 
Later,
cool hand luke
> Fiesta Rancho now has about ten new TITO uprights
> that have 25c, 50c, $1 FPDW and 10/7 DB. The $1
> 10/7 DB is a progressive.
>
> These new games replaced the Bob Dancer machines
> that were near the sportsbook.There's a message on another VP Message Board that these machines
do
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dds2124" <dds6@c...> wrote:
not have $1 FPDW, just $1 10/7 DB and 10/6 DDB...
Can someone confirm?
Don the Dentist
Probably don't need to worry about any good machines staying here very long.
I just heard from a former executive of the Fiesta Rancho (when George
owned) who said those on the "inside" figure Harrah's is buying the Fiestas
(both) because some Fiesta executives are being forced out and some Harrah's
executives are ALREADY working there.
This may just be a rumor - but the source was very knowledgeable.
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards; "frugal" books;
and the NEW "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."
Well, I am sure they will trash the inventory like they have done at
Rio and their own place. Many people are saying the coast casinos
are not hurting - but I venture to say that george maloof could not
be happier. Palms has been alot more busier since Coast did their
thing. I think there has got to be enough knowledgebale, sensible
players in Vegas that will not play at the Fiestas if they suddenly
don't have decent games...
perhaps, I am mistaken.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...>
wrote:
Probably don't need to worry about any good machines staying here
very long.
I just heard from a former executive of the Fiesta Rancho (when
George
owned) who said those on the "inside" figure Harrah's is buying
the Fiestas
(both) because some Fiesta executives are being forced out and
some Harrah's
executives are ALREADY working there.
This may just be a rumor - but the source was very knowledgeable.
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards; "frugal" books;
and the NEW "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler."
I don't post often but it continually amazes me that people think
they have a constitutional right to walk into a casino and expect to
make $30 or so an hour.
In the same vein, there was some discussion about a fairly large
Midwestern riverboat a couple of weeks back that was truly amazing.
The customers actually complained after management corrected the
payouts on games which were paying in their professional opinion,
out too high a percentage. They made a mistake and left one game,
for very high stakes, intact. A married couple came in to complain,
I won't discuss the specific complaint, but all it did was expose
the mistake, doing management a favor (and myself a disservice,
because that game and the mail it generated was the best 45 minute
play in the country). What were they expecting, this establishment
is historically known for bad VP, did they think it was going to
change?
I watched Stanford Wong cut my BJ career short by five years and,
then watched his protege, Bob Dancer, cut my VP career short by
about the same. At least Dancer just doesn't get it, he actually
thought he was doing some good. Three years ago, a guy with a $75K
bankroll could make $100K playing in Nevada and not breaking much of
a sweat. Now it's hard work to even make $60K, and the only ones
capable are those with the strong organization skills of a Ms.
Scott. I now look to play for .5 when it used to be 1% minimum. Less
money, less certainty.
With all the information out there, how long does the readership
here seriously think it's going to take before the casino realizes
this is a bad idea? My 19 year old dog can play FPDW cold.
OK, enough whining. There's 10/7/80 for halves at the Palms, 4
machines. Go to it, let's see how long it will last. Maybe if you
ask nice, they'll put in All American for you.
Excellent post.
----- Original Message -----
From: "paladin415x" <paladin415x@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: $1 FPDW at Fiesta Rancho - New Rumor
I don't post often but it continually amazes me that people think
they have a constitutional right to walk into a casino and expect to
make $30 or so an hour.In the same vein, there was some discussion about a fairly large
Midwestern riverboat a couple of weeks back that was truly amazing.
The customers actually complained after management corrected the
payouts on games which were paying in their professional opinion,
out too high a percentage. They made a mistake and left one game,
for very high stakes, intact. A married couple came in to complain,
I won't discuss the specific complaint, but all it did was expose
the mistake, doing management a favor (and myself a disservice,
because that game and the mail it generated was the best 45 minute
play in the country). What were they expecting, this establishment
is historically known for bad VP, did they think it was going to
change?I watched Stanford Wong cut my BJ career short by five years and,
then watched his protege, Bob Dancer, cut my VP career short by
about the same. At least Dancer just doesn't get it, he actually
thought he was doing some good. Three years ago, a guy with a $75K
bankroll could make $100K playing in Nevada and not breaking much of
a sweat. Now it's hard work to even make $60K, and the only ones
capable are those with the strong organization skills of a Ms.
Scott. I now look to play for .5 when it used to be 1% minimum. Less
money, less certainty.With all the information out there, how long does the readership
here seriously think it's going to take before the casino realizes
this is a bad idea? My 19 year old dog can play FPDW cold.OK, enough whining. There's 10/7/80 for halves at the Palms, 4
machines. Go to it, let's see how long it will last. Maybe if you
ask nice, they'll put in All American for you.vpFREE Links:
http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
You hit the nail with a hammer on this one. To mant video poker players have an entitlement mentality. Casinoes are not sympathetic charitable organizations. Wake up folks.
paladin415x <paladin415x@yahoo.com> wrote:I don't post often but it continually amazes me that people think
they have a constitutional right to walk into a casino and expect to
make $30 or so an hour.
In the same vein, there was some discussion about a fairly large
Midwestern riverboat a couple of weeks back that was truly amazing.
The customers actually complained after management corrected the
payouts on games which were paying in their professional opinion,
out too high a percentage. They made a mistake and left one game,
for very high stakes, intact. A married couple came in to complain,
I won't discuss the specific complaint, but all it did was expose
the mistake, doing management a favor (and myself a disservice,
because that game and the mail it generated was the best 45 minute
play in the country). What were they expecting, this establishment
is historically known for bad VP, did they think it was going to
change?
I watched Stanford Wong cut my BJ career short by five years and,
then watched his protege, Bob Dancer, cut my VP career short by
about the same. At least Dancer just doesn't get it, he actually
thought he was doing some good. Three years ago, a guy with a $75K
bankroll could make $100K playing in Nevada and not breaking much of
a sweat. Now it's hard work to even make $60K, and the only ones
capable are those with the strong organization skills of a Ms.
Scott. I now look to play for .5 when it used to be 1% minimum. Less
money, less certainty.
With all the information out there, how long does the readership
here seriously think it's going to take before the casino realizes
this is a bad idea? My 19 year old dog can play FPDW cold.
OK, enough whining. There's 10/7/80 for halves at the Palms, 4
machines. Go to it, let's see how long it will last. Maybe if you
ask nice, they'll put in All American for you.
vpFREE Links:
http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"paladin415x" <paladin415x@y...> wrote:
I watched Stanford Wong cut my BJ career short by five years and,
then watched his protege, Bob Dancer, cut my VP career short by
about the same. At least Dancer just doesn't get it, he actually
thought he was doing some good. Three years ago, a guy with a $75K
bankroll could make $100K playing in Nevada and not breaking much
of a sweat.
So now, instead of a small number of people working at video poker as
a job, we have a much larger number of people enjoying video poker as
recreation. This is an improvement not only because the benefits are
enjoyed by a larger public, but because the many who enjoy FPVP today
generally do so as a hobby while holding down a real, productive job
that benefits society.
How in the world could you say that Dancer didn't do good? By what
measure could we consider it a better situation where a only a
handful of people benefitted from VP knowledge, & that handful made
money so easily that they were able to avoid getting a useful job??
Stuart (RandomStu)
sresnick2@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm
I agree, in spirit, that it is great having lots of recreational players enjoying
themselves. I tip my hat to Bob Dancer, Tom Ski, Dean Zamzow and the rest.
However, I cringe when one berates those handful of players making money
with VP when they should have "real, productive jobs".
Who defines what is "real", what is "productive", and what is a "job"? LOL
.....bl
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart" <sresnick2@c...> wrote:
"paladin415x" <paladin415x@y...> wrote:
> I watched Stanford Wong cut my BJ career short by five years and,
> then watched his protege, Bob Dancer, cut my VP career short by
> about the same. At least Dancer just doesn't get it, he actually
> thought he was doing some good. Three years ago, a guy with a $75K
> bankroll could make $100K playing in Nevada and not breaking much
> of a sweat.So now, instead of a small number of people working at video poker as
a job, we have a much larger number of people enjoying video poker as
recreation. This is an improvement not only because the benefits are
enjoyed by a larger public, but because the many who enjoy FPVP today
generally do so as a hobby while holding down a real, productive job
that benefits society.How in the world could you say that Dancer didn't do good? By what
measure could we consider it a better situation where a only a
handful of people benefitted from VP knowledge, & that handful made
money so easily that they were able to avoid getting a useful job??Stuart (RandomStu)
sresnick2@c...
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>
wrote:
I agree, in spirit, that it is great having lots of recreational
players enjoying themselves. I tip my hat to Bob Dancer, Tom Ski,
Dean Zamzow and the rest.
However, I cringe when one berates those handful of players making
money with VP when they should have "real, productive jobs".Who defines what is "real", what is "productive", and what is
a "job"? LOL
I understand if casinos think that positive expectation video poker
players are scum and either don't want to offer 100%+ machines or bar
knowledgeable VP players. However, I don't think it's fair that
casinos are no longer even offering full pay (9/6) Jacks or Better,
unless players are willing to wager over $5 a hand! Casino Rama in
Ontario finally has 9/6 Jacks, but they are in Triple Play machines
that require 10 quarters per hand for the full royal flush payout
(8,000 coins). On most of Rama's machines, if you play "only" 5 coins
per hand, you will recieve less than 4,000 coins for royal flushes.
Casinos should offer at least full pay jacks at the $1X5 level. The
house edge on VP is higher than basic strategy blackjack - and that
doesn't even factor in the faster speed of VP or the fact that
expenses are lower (no dealer).
"My 19 year old dog can play FPDW cold."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladin415x" <paladin415x@y...> wrote:
======================================================================
That reminds me of that old gambling dog joke.
A guy walks into a bar and notices three men
and a dog playing poker. The dog is playing beautifully. "That¹s a
smart dog," the man says. "Not really," says one of the
players. "Every time he gets a good hand, he wags his tail."
TM & VP
"Blackjack is a fistfight, poker is war."
--VP Pappy
Good post. I tried to define the 50 most beneficial jobs to mankind. Try
it. A tough job.
David K
----- Original Message -----
From: "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: $1 FPDW at Fiesta Rancho - New Rumor
I agree, in spirit, that it is great having lots of recreational players
enjoying
themselves. I tip my hat to Bob Dancer, Tom Ski, Dean Zamzow and the
rest.
However, I cringe when one berates those handful of players making money
with VP when they should have "real, productive jobs".Who defines what is "real", what is "productive", and what is a "job"?
LOL
.....bl
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart" <sresnick2@c...> wrote:
> "paladin415x" <paladin415x@y...> wrote:
> > I watched Stanford Wong cut my BJ career short by five years and,
> > then watched his protege, Bob Dancer, cut my VP career short by
> > about the same. At least Dancer just doesn't get it, he actually
> > thought he was doing some good. Three years ago, a guy with a $75K
> > bankroll could make $100K playing in Nevada and not breaking much
> > of a sweat.
>
> So now, instead of a small number of people working at video poker as
> a job, we have a much larger number of people enjoying video poker as
> recreation. This is an improvement not only because the benefits are
> enjoyed by a larger public, but because the many who enjoy FPVP today
> generally do so as a hobby while holding down a real, productive job
> that benefits society.
>
> How in the world could you say that Dancer didn't do good? By what
> measure could we consider it a better situation where a only a
> handful of people benefitted from VP knowledge, & that handful made
> money so easily that they were able to avoid getting a useful job??
>
> Stuart (RandomStu)
> sresnick2@c...
> http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htmvpFREE Links:
http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
David Kathary wrote:
Good post. I tried to define the 50 most beneficial jobs to mankind.
Which is number one on your list? Mine is "farmer". I know we can all probably go out and plant a garden and grow some of our food, but if you really think about it, if all commercial farming ceased, don't you think there would be a worldwide famine?
Bill Velek
"bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...> wrote:
I agree, in spirit, that it is great having lots of recreational
players enjoying themselves. I tip my hat to Bob Dancer, Tom Ski,
Dean Zamzow and the rest.However, I cringe when one berates those handful of players making
money with VP when they should have "real, productive jobs".Who defines what is "real", what is "productive", and what is
a "job"?
Anything you do is a "real, productive job" if someone pays you to
do it, as long as force or deception aren't involved.
I do computer work. I never lie about my abilities, & never force
anyone to hire me. People see exactly what I can do, & then offer to
pay me to do it. So I know I'm doing a real, productive job. If at
some point there's no longer anyone who'll pay me, I'll know I'm no
longer being productive.
Casinos (in effect) pay expert VP players to play quarter FPDW. No
force is involved, but the casino is often (always?) not fully aware
of the nature of the "work" the player is doing. Sometimes, players
actively try to hide their skill, or deceive the casino into thinking
they play differently (i.e., more stupidly) than they do. Since
the "employer" has something less than full knowledge of the "work"
being done, it's at best a grey area, & in a different category than
my computer work.
If it's true that no casino is currently offering dollar FPDW, we can
conclude right off the bat that playing dollar FPDW isn't real,
productive work. In a free market, *any* work that's productive will,
by definition, find a buyer.
Stuart (RandomStu)
sresnick2@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm
"David Kathary" <dkathary@c...> wrote:
Good post. I tried to define the 50 most beneficial jobs to
mankind. Try it. A tough job.
It's in fact impossible, because what's "beneficial" varies by
individual & situation. It's a matter of opinion & personal
preference, rather than something that can be standardized.
Someone might value their physical health above all else, & consider
a doctor the most beneficial job, & this would be reflected in the
amount they'd be willing to pay for a doctor's time. But on a
particular day, their toilet might be flooding, & at that moment a
plumber would become the most beneficial job.
Someone else may be indifferent to sickness & health & lifespan &
such, & value recreation above all else. To this person, a movie
producer, a casino operator, or a marijuana grower might be
considered the most beneficial job, & who's to say they're wrong?
Stuart (RandomStu)
sresnick2@comcast.net
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm
Stuart wrote:
Anything you do is a "real, productive job" if someone pays you to
do it, as long as force or deception aren't involved.I do computer work. I never lie about my abilities, & never force
anyone to hire me. People see exactly what I can do, & then offer to
pay me to do it. So I know I'm doing a real, productive job. If at
some point there's no longer anyone who'll pay me, I'll know I'm no
longer being productive.Casinos (in effect) pay expert VP players to play quarter FPDW. No
force is involved, but the casino is often (always?) not fully aware
of the nature of the "work" the player is doing.
I suppose that's one way to look at it -- sort of like Sam's Wholesale Stores having free samples of food available -- and when some folks go there and pig out but don't spend any money and are essentially receives value from the store, why they're sort of like employees that Sam's doesn't know about -- testing the food for Sams. Actually, I prefer to take the point of view that you are "working" for me when I _want_ you to work for me, and if I am merely having to _tolerate_ you and the money you are costing me because I can't think of a good way to deal with you, then you're pretty much unwelcome and are certainly NOT "working" for me by any stretch of the imagination. Since the casinos make their games available expecting to maximize their profits, then except for a few occasions when they might like a celebrity like Bob Dancer or Jean Scott to draw a crowd for them, they probably actually hope and prefer that experts _don't_ play there, perhaps even debating whether to actually _BAN_ them from playing, like a few have now done, and probably just view expert players as an unavoidable nuisance -- sort of like a parasite. But whatever serves to bolster your self-image works for me; I don't have a dog in that fight. I don't work for the casinos; I just "play" there.
Sometimes, players
actively try to hide their skill, or deceive the casino into thinking
they play differently (i.e., more stupidly) than they do. Since
the "employer" has something less than full knowledge of the "work"
being done, it's at best a grey area, & in a different category than
my computer work.
As a matter of semantics, you might be able to argue a 'grey area', but as a matter of law I think it is absolutely black and white. You are either working for the casino as an employee or private contractor, ... or you are a customer who is NOT working for them. Period!
If it's true that no casino is currently offering dollar FPDW, we can
conclude right off the bat that playing dollar FPDW isn't real,
productive work. In a free market, *any* work that's productive will,
by definition, find a buyer.
Well, I guess arsonists and hired killers need to work, too. But they we need to deal with that subjective word - "productive".
Bill Velek
The definition below is completely inaccurate. Without even going for
obvious examples (drug bag man who is paid & happy to deliver same)
many people have jobs that are no more real or productive than
gambling. The contempt/self-gratified arrogance people have against
gamblers is astounding to me. No basis for saying you have a
real,productive job is given below whatsoever. The concluding
sentence shows no true understanding of Economics (a dynamic process;
not a snapshot) or anything else.
Anything you do is a "real, productive job" if someone pays you to
do it, as long as force or deception aren't involved.I do computer work. I never lie about my abilities, & never force
anyone to hire me. People see exactly what I can do, & then offer
to
pay me to do it. So I know I'm doing a real, productive job. If at
some point there's no longer anyone who'll pay me, I'll know I'm no
longer being productive.Casinos (in effect) pay expert VP players to play quarter FPDW. No
force is involved, but the casino is often (always?) not fully
aware
of the nature of the "work" the player is doing. Sometimes, players
actively try to hide their skill, or deceive the casino into
thinking
they play differently (i.e., more stupidly) than they do. Since
the "employer" has something less than full knowledge of the "work"
being done, it's at best a grey area, & in a different category
than
my computer work.
If it's true that no casino is currently offering dollar FPDW, we
can
conclude right off the bat that playing dollar FPDW isn't real,
productive work. In a free market, *any* work that's productive
will,
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart" <sresnick2@c...> wrote:
by definition, find a buyer.
Stuart (RandomStu)
sresnick2@c...
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm
David Kathary wrote:
> Good post. I tried to define the 50 most beneficial jobs to
mankind.
Which is number one on your list? Mine is "farmer". I know we
can all
probably go out and plant a garden and grow some of our food, but
if you
really think about it, if all commercial farming ceased, don't you
think
there would be a worldwide famine?
Bill Velek
I am with you Bill, farmers and teachers are very important in my
book. I am glad others are willing to do these jobs because I am
not capable at either.
Jim
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote: