vpFREE2 Forums

Your Opinion, Please

#1

I recently received an offer from the Venetian and request your
assistance in evaluating it.

First, some background. I am at mid-upper Gold level, which is
equivalent to a solid Diamond but not quite Seven Stars player for
those of you more familiar with Harrahs' system.

I might have aspired to reach the highest level at Venetian. But,
last year there was simply too much downgrading and erratic
availability of 9/6 Jacks and other desirable games.

So, I stopped playing there.

A variety of offers came my way in the ensuing months. And, as I
clearly stated here in various posts, I had no intention of
considering any of them. I also strongly recommended that other
players think twice about booking stays where once you arrive there
may be absolutely nothing playable.

So, why am I even considering a stay at the Venetian now?

Here's the deal:

First, the bad news. There's an entry fee. This is yet another
consideration that I never seriously considered until now.

The $2500 entry fee buys you a spot in the event where only 50
entrants are participating. You get one entry for showing up and
bonus entries based on play. Typical slot tourney stuff.

The prize structure is as follows:

1st Place: $150K
2nd Place: $ 50K
3rd Place: $ 25K
4th Place: $ 15K
5th Place: $ 10K
6th-25th Place: $5K in slot credits.

So, based on this prize pool, there is a 50% chance of winning at
least double the entry fee in slot credits, or much more in cash (if
you make the top 5, wich is a 1 in 10 chance).

Regardless of whether you feel the 1 in 2 chance is worth $2500 up
front the Venetian has added one other "sweetener" to complicate
matters:

You get $2500 in slot credits for attending the event. So, the first
$2500 of your bankroll that you used for the entry fee is given right
back as slot credits when you arrive.

So, based on these parameters, do you book this event?

Thanks,

Mikey

P.S. I've received information that Venetian "overbooks" these events
by up to 20% which makes your chances of winning worse. To be safe,
assume 60 participants instead of 50 with the same prize structure.

#2

Does it say somewhere that it is limited to 50 players?
If not, how dis you arrive at that number?

later in the post you say they might overbook so figure 60?
Is there a limit? or could there be 150+?

If there is 50players and you are getting your entry back if freeplay it would not seem that you have too much to lose, even if you did not make the money, hopefully you could hold your own once thru the freeplay. I am assuming you also get the room and some perks, so does not sound bad.

···

--- On Sat, 1/31/09, mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Your Opinion, Please
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 5:32 PM

I recently received an offer from the Venetian and request your
assistance in evaluating it.

First, some background. I am at mid-upper Gold level, which is
equivalent to a solid Diamond but not quite Seven Stars player for
those of you more familiar with Harrahs' system.

I might have aspired to reach the highest level at Venetian. But,
last year there was simply too much downgrading and erratic
availability of 9/6 Jacks and other desirable games.

So, I stopped playing there.

A variety of offers came my way in the ensuing months. And, as I
clearly stated here in various posts, I had no intention of
considering any of them. I also strongly recommended that other
players think twice about booking stays where once you arrive there
may be absolutely nothing playable.

So, why am I even considering a stay at the Venetian now?

Here's the deal:

First, the bad news. There's an entry fee. This is yet another
consideration that I never seriously considered until now.

The $2500 entry fee buys you a spot in the event where only 50
entrants are participating. You get one entry for showing up and
bonus entries based on play. Typical slot tourney stuff.

The prize structure is as follows:

1st Place: $150K
2nd Place: $ 50K
3rd Place: $ 25K
4th Place: $ 15K
5th Place: $ 10K
6th-25th Place: $5K in slot credits.

So, based on this prize pool, there is a 50% chance of winning at
least double the entry fee in slot credits, or much more in cash (if
you make the top 5, wich is a 1 in 10 chance).

Regardless of whether you feel the 1 in 2 chance is worth $2500 up
front the Venetian has added one other "sweetener" to complicate
matters:

You get $2500 in slot credits for attending the event. So, the first
$2500 of your bankroll that you used for the entry fee is given right
back as slot credits when you arrive.

So, based on these parameters, do you book this event?

Thanks,

Mikey

P.S. I've received information that Venetian "overbooks" these events
by up to 20% which makes your chances of winning worse. To be safe,
assume 60 participants instead of 50 with the same prize structure.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

The opening paragraph of the offer is phrased as follows:

"We have a special one-time bonus of $2500 in Slot Credits waiting
for you when you join us for the slot event that only 50 players will
have the opportunity to experience...".

There is no guarantee of the number of participants. I just know
through a reliable source (that attended a similar event last year)
that the phrasing in his offer said "limited to 100 guests" and the
final drawing contained entries from 120 participants.

To answer another question in a different post, there is no reference
to 9/6 Jacks or any other game as being unavailable during the event.
And if your post implies not to expect that game to be available,
then, knowing the Venetian for the last 7 months or so, I certainly
couldn't disagree.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, annie adlin <annieadlin@...> wrote:

Does it say somewhere that it is limited to 50 players?
If not, how dis you arrive at that number?

later in the post you say they might overbook so figure 60?
Is there a limit? or could there be 150+?

#4

<<I recently received an offer from the Venetian and request your
assistance in evaluating it.>>

I also was Gold last year and didn't earn enough to convert it to Platinum because of the off-and-on availability of 9/6 plus I was out of town 4 weeks out of 8 during November and December. I got this offer also and at first it looked promising, even though JoB would be 9/5.

<<So, based on this prize pool, there is a 50% chance of winning at
least double the entry fee in slot credits, or much more in cash (if
you make the top 5, which is a 1 in 10 chance).>>

You do NOT have these percentages in your favor since number of drawing tickets you have is based on # of points you earn. And from my past experience in these "sweepstake" drawings, there is a group of players who will "overwhelm" the drum with an unbelievable amount of play. These players will win more than their "share" of prizes.

Now if you play some during that time anyway (like locals who have BB then), maybe this would be a good play if you realize that your chances of winning are smaller than it looks. Just play your regular amount and hope to get lucky and win something extra!! (One good thing is that those super high rollers can only win once but there usually are enough of them that the lower rollers don't cash nearly as often.)

By the way, I just re-read my letter with this offer and I don't see any mention of the "sweetener" - $2500 in slot credits for attending the event. So there must be various versions for this drawing mailing. This would make it much better. However, the better the offers the super high rollers get the more they will play!!!!!

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

#5

You do NOT have these percentages in your favor since number of

drawing

tickets you have is based on # of points you earn. And from my

past

experience in these "sweepstake" drawings, there is a group of

players who

will "overwhelm" the drum with an unbelievable amount of play.

These

players will win more than their "share" of prizes.

Thanks for responding, Jean. I read your Frugal Vegas faithfully and
realize how busy you've been!

Your post is a sobering reminder of why I dislike these events. In
fact, last year my host (seated next to me at an awards dinner) as
the winner was announced whispered, "Oh no, not her again! She wins
all the time and doesn't need the money. Probably had 200 entries."

My total number of entries was about 15.

A bigger concern is what I play at the Venetian after my $2500 slot
credit is exhausted. Do I simply leave and go play at the Wynn (See
database updates, cuts there lately, too) until the awards dinner? Do
I continue taking a 1-2% "hit" on any Venetian game with my own money
just to earn points? For my 15 entries against the winners' 200?

The real problem for me with events like these is that I am no longer
enjoying play when I know full-pay games are available elsewhere.
And, realistically, the best assumption of the prize value I'll
receive is zero. Even with that 1 in 2 chance.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

#6

In order to receive a 1 in 2 chance of winning money,
you would have to have 50% of the (electronic/ticketless)
sweepstakes tickets in the (vertual) drum.

···

On 1/31/09, mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:

And, realistically, the best assumption of the prize value I'll
receive is zero. Even with that 1 in 2 chance.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

<<"We have a special one-time bonus of $2500 in Slot Credits waiting
for you when you join us for the slot event that only 50 players will
have the opportunity to experience...".>>

The sentence that starts my letter mentions the 50 players but not the one-time bonus of $2500 in slot credits.

Also there is this sentence later in the letter. "Please note we will be unable to offer 9/6 Jacks or Better Video Poker machines during this event, however we will have a bevy of 9/5 Jacks or Better machines for your enjoyment."

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/

#8

Also there is this sentence later in the letter. "Please note we

will be

unable to offer 9/6 Jacks or Better Video Poker machines during

this event,

however we will have a bevy of 9/5 Jacks or Better machines for

your

enjoyment."

It doesn't benefit me to play where there is a "bevy" of 98.45% VP at
best. Is Venetian competing with Harrahs now instead of Wynn?

Assume I get back $2000 from playing the $2500 in slot credits (not
an implausible result). I am then beginning a trip down $500 in a
casino that hasn't consistently made available any game choices I
like in nearly a year. And what do I play for the 2-3 days of my stay?

Also consider, as another person mentioned, that there is no
guarantee of 50 participants. An additional 25 takers (which the
Venetian would certainly not refuse) cuts my chances of winning any
prize down to 1 out of 3 at best.

Looks like my zero trips to Vegas for 2009 won't be changing any time
soon. But sincere thanks to all for the input.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

#9

Wrong.

The "chances of winning" do not depend on the number
of players entered into the contest. Your chances
depend on your number of virtual entries in the electronic
sweepstakes versus how many entries the other
contestants have.

So, your remark about cutting your "chances of winning any
prize down to 1 out of 3 at best" in incorrect.

For you to have a 1 in 3 chance of winning any prize, you
would have to have one third of the (virtual) entries in the
sweepstakes. For a contest that depends on playing to
earn entries, that's a hell of a lot of play (to have a 1 in 3
chance of winning)!

If I received that offer I would certainly accept it. I love the
rooms at Venetian and Palazzo. I love the Gold Lounges.
I love the atmosphere (and the smell) in the casinos.

I would play the Free Play once through and then play else-
where during the remainder of the trip. I would accept
whatever amount of entries I earn on the Free Play and
I would not try to earn any more entries by playing any more.
I would also expect to NOT win anything in the sweepstakes.

I will have had a very nice room for a few nights and it
probably wouldn't cost very much. Sounds perfect to me!

···

On 1/31/09, mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:

It doesn't benefit me to play where there is a "bevy" of 98.45% VP at
best. Is Venetian competing with Harrahs now instead of Wynn?

Assume I get back $2000 from playing the $2500 in slot credits (not
an implausible result). I am then beginning a trip down $500 in a
casino that hasn't consistently made available any game choices I
like in nearly a year. And what do I play for the 2-3 days of my stay?

Also consider, as another person mentioned, that there is no
guarantee of 50 participants. An additional 25 takers (which the
Venetian would certainly not refuse) cuts my chances of winning any
prize down to 1 out of 3 at best.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Unless the value of the $2500 in free play is greater than the expected loss for the amount of time you wish to play the 9/5 instead of the 9/6 stay away as you are being taken advantage of. The casino knows they can offer 9/6 and deliberately offers 9/5. One other thought. If they get away with it this time, what happens next time? Perhaps play the free play, play a small amount of the 9/5 for cosmetic effects and find a place that offers better value.

···

--- On Sat, 1/31/09, mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Your Opinion, Please
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:25 PM

            --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@ ...> wrote:

Also there is this sentence later in the letter. "Please note we

will be

unable to offer 9/6 Jacks or Better Video Poker machines during

this event,

however we will have a bevy of 9/5 Jacks or Better machines for

your

enjoyment."

It doesn't benefit me to play where there is a "bevy" of 98.45% VP at

best. Is Venetian competing with Harrahs now instead of Wynn?

Assume I get back $2000 from playing the $2500 in slot credits (not

an implausible result). I am then beginning a trip down $500 in a

casino that hasn't consistently made available any game choices I

like in nearly a year. And what do I play for the 2-3 days of my stay?

Also consider, as another person mentioned, that there is no

guarantee of 50 participants. An additional 25 takers (which the

Venetian would certainly not refuse) cuts my chances of winning any

prize down to 1 out of 3 at best.

Looks like my zero trips to Vegas for 2009 won't be changing any time

soon. But sincere thanks to all for the input.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

The first question would seem to be, what is the cost of each extra
entry? There are others that follow, but that's a start.

Chandler

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

I recently received an offer from the Venetian and request your
assistance in evaluating it.

#12

You do NOT have these percentages in your favor since number of drawing
tickets you have is based on # of points you earn. And from my past
experience in these "sweepstake" drawings, there is a group of

players who

will "overwhelm" the drum with an unbelievable amount of play. These
players will win more than their "share" of prizes.

Which brings up question number 2. How many total entries will there
be? Guesstimate #2 question (if possible) and answer the question of
what your costs are per entry and you have the beginnings of a basis
on which to make a rational decision.

Chandler

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

#13

  How many total entries will there

be? Guesstimate #2 question (if possible) and answer the question

of

what your costs are per entry and you have the beginnings of a basis
on which to make a rational decision.

Chandler

I appreciate everyone's input and want to close this discussion so
that the group may move on to other topics.

But, just so you'll know, I don't plan on accepting this offer. And
it wasn't anything in MY offer that determined the decision.

It was the paragraph in Jean Scott's offer (not included at all in
mine) which said 9/6 Jacks won't be available during the event.

That made it clear to me that the Venetian is still "up to its old
tricks" of manipulating paytables and continuing its course of
erratic availability of desirable VP.

So, for the principle of not supporting management in its philosophy,
I will not reward them with my business. Ask yourself if you would
put a $2500 charge on your credit card up front with a casino telling
you they are downgrading machines for your stay.

If the Venetian wants us back they'll eventually figure it out. And,
as I said before, I used to think they were competing with the Wynn,
not Harrahs.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cmayhem2001" <chandler_re@...> wrote:

#14

A $2500 charge on your credit card up front? Stay in a galaxy, far, far, away. I can give you many reasons to avoid the Venetian but this one should be sufficient enough. The host system and comps to players is placed on trust that the casino will provide and the players will play. This smacks of unethical action on the part of the casino and of questionable legality. For that reason when I check in to casinos I intentionally use a card with a low limit.

···

--- On Sun, 2/1/09, mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: mikeymic <mikeymic@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Your Opinion, Please
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 10:04 AM

            --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "cmayhem2001" <chandler_re@ ...> wrote:

  How many total entries will there

be? Guesstimate #2 question (if possible) and answer the question

of

what your costs are per entry and you have the beginnings of a basis

on which to make a rational decision.

Chandler

I appreciate everyone's input and want to close this discussion so

that the group may move on to other topics.

But, just so you'll know, I don't plan on accepting this offer. And

it wasn't anything in MY offer that determined the decision.

It was the paragraph in Jean Scott's offer (not included at all in

mine) which said 9/6 Jacks won't be available during the event.

That made it clear to me that the Venetian is still "up to its old

tricks" of manipulating paytables and continuing its course of

erratic availability of desirable VP.

So, for the principle of not supporting management in its philosophy,

I will not reward them with my business. Ask yourself if you would

put a $2500 charge on your credit card up front with a casino telling

you they are downgrading machines for your stay.

If the Venetian wants us back they'll eventually figure it out. And,

as I said before, I used to think they were competing with the Wynn,

not Harrahs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

I get offers from the V all the time and didn't get this one.

Just wondering, when is this promo taking place?

>
  How many total entries will there
> be? Guesstimate #2 question (if possible) and answer the

question

of
> what your costs are per entry and you have the beginnings of a

basis

> on which to make a rational decision.
>
> Chandler

I appreciate everyone's input and want to close this discussion so
that the group may move on to other topics.

But, just so you'll know, I don't plan on accepting this offer. And
it wasn't anything in MY offer that determined the decision.

It was the paragraph in Jean Scott's offer (not included at all in
mine) which said 9/6 Jacks won't be available during the event.

That made it clear to me that the Venetian is still "up to its old
tricks" of manipulating paytables and continuing its course of
erratic availability of desirable VP.

So, for the principle of not supporting management in its

philosophy,

I will not reward them with my business. Ask yourself if you would
put a $2500 charge on your credit card up front with a casino

telling

you they are downgrading machines for your stay.

If the Venetian wants us back they'll eventually figure it out.

And,

as I said before, I used to think they were competing with the

Wynn,

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cmayhem2001" <chandler_re@> wrote:
not Harrahs.

#16

<<I get offers from the V all the time and didn't get this one.

Just wondering, when is this promo taking place? >>

Feb. 13-15

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://lasvegasadvisor.com/blogs/jscott/