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You would have loved to play "draw till u win"

This post may be broken up as other people come along and want to use
this computer.

I define VP gurus more by what they don't tell you than what they do
tell you. Want to know how to get a free hat or mug? Read Player's
Edge. Want to know how to get a 3% or 4% edge against the house.
Well, that never gets published. Your VP gurus are great at teaching
you how to squeak every last drop out of a 99.73% game along with
cashback, bounceback and a rinky-dink promotion that brings the whole
thing up to 100.2% for a short period of time. And when that
promotion comes along that gives a big fat edge they don't have time
to publish it because they're to busy torching the play.

Here's a prime example of your VP gurus looking out for you. Ever
hear of a Bally Gamemaker game called "draw till u win?" NO? Well,
it's probably because the game has only been around for a short
period of time. NINE YEARS!!! Not one word ever published on it.
Of the 6,000 members of this site I put the over/under on those who
have played it at 40. So let the trailer trash be the first to tell
you about the game:

I was working the Pioneer/Laughlin installation of the Acres
Gaming "double time" system, along with every other hustler in the
state (It was at the time of the biker shootout) when a friend, a
well bankrolled and knowledgeable VP pro who knew I made the rounds
asked me to be on the lookout for a game called "draw till u win" on
Bally Gamemakers. He wouldn't tell me anything else about the game.
Just call him if I find it. So I called another friend and asked him
if he ever heard of the game and what the payback percentage was.

"Yes, he said, "it comes in at 103.2%
"What?!!"
"That's right, 103.2%.
"Quarters or dollars?" I asked.
"Theres still quarters around but the dollars went fast"
"Do you have the strategy?"
"Sorry, I'm sworn not to give it away"

So in my daily meanderings I'm checking every Gamemaker I come
across. Lo and Behold!! I find one in the Vegas Club. Okay, so
let's sit down and figure this puppy out. It's a 6/5/4 Double Bonus
payscale. Well that's a pretty crappy payscale. Maybe 92%. Must be
something else to it. So I'm playing along and wind up with this
hand after the draw: 6c-7c-8c-9c-Qh. The straight-flush cards go
into autohold. The draw button is lit, so I hit it and cath another
queen. The draw button is lit again so I hit it again and catch some
card that didn't fit. I hit the draw button again and catch a flush
and am promptly rewarded with 25 credits. Wow! This is pretty
neat!!! So, I'm thinking if I would have caught a straight flush card
I would have been payed 250 credits. So I'm playing along and wind
up with 4 low cards to a gutshot straight-flush and it happens
again. I get to draw until I win. Boom!!! I make the straight
flush!! I like this game I'm thinking. Hey, wait a minute! If I
wind up with four low cards to say an open end straight-flush theres
not that many pay cards. You either make a straight, flush or
straight flush. Fifteen cards and two of them are straight flush
cards. I like those odds. And what if I discarded one of those
paycards on the draw? That makes the draw till u win feature even
stronger. So then I'm playing along and am dealt the Ace of Hearts
with four trash cards. I hold the Ace and catch the King, Queen, Ten
of Hearts along with a trash card. The machine goes into autohold
with the royal cards. Wow!!! I get to draw till I win with royal
cards too?!!! First card is trash, second card is trash, BOOM, out
jumps the Jack of Hearts and the machine locks up. Hey, you people
get my thousand dollars over here now!! Whaddya think I got all day?
It's easy to make money in Nevada!!

Next move? Calculate the strategy. To be continued....

mickeycrimm wrote:

I define VP gurus more by what they don't tell you than what they do
tell you. Want to know how to get a free hat or mug? Read Player's
Edge. Want to know how to get a 3% or 4% edge against the house.
Well, that never gets published. Your VP gurus are great at teaching
you how to squeak every last drop out of a 99.73% game along with
cashback, bounceback and a rinky-dink promotion that brings the whole
thing up to 100.2% for a short period of time. And when that
promotion comes along that gives a big fat edge they don't have time
to publish it because they're to busy torching the play.

Damn, Mickey, I didn't figure you to step up on the "guru bashing"
bandwagon. I thought you had better things to amuse/educate us with.

Seems to me that for every "guru" that publishes only the limited info
you give them credit for, there's a score of pros who are not only
tight lipped, but give every indication of favoring the creation of an
"enforcer" who'd ensure that the most valuable vp info was kept to
themselves.

Kudos on the strategy exercise that you later detail and the intricate
ER calculations. Pretty impressive for someone who apparently
sidestepped the multitude of Dancer columns in which he drags his
readers through the mud in calculating hold ER's.

I'm looking forward to the completion of your tale ... trust me. But
I won't be disappointed if you sidestep the gratuitous editorializing.

- H.

I wrote:

Damn, Mickey, I didn't figure you to step up on the "guru bashing"
bandwagon. I thought you had better things to amuse/educate us with ...

This was a reply that might have best been laid aside until I had a
chance to mull it over. On occasion, the group administrator has
moderated a post of mine because it was deemed to be an attempt to
exercise my own inappropriate moderation of another's post.

While that's not my intent here, I'm prepared for my post to be
received in that manner. In case it is, I'll make my points in the
affirmative ...

-- The vp writers who have shared their knowledge are a primary source
of insight for all players.

-- Those writers, Dancer in particular, have spelled out the tools
necessary to evaluate games and, for those inclined to step through
the minutiae and necessary complexities, to determine optimum strategies.

-- Any person who professes to be knowledgable and shares that
knowledge publicly becomes an easy target for criticism, largely
because they share a part of themselves that most keep private. The
manner in which criticism is lobbed defines the critic.

- Harry

I took no offense, Harry. You've probably heard the Merle Haggard
song "Walkin' on the fightin' side of me." Well, when someone bashes
Paymar their "walkin' on the fightin' side of me." So I have been a
little hot under the collar lately. About 10 years ago I learned
through 2 little books by Paymar, Precision Play and The Best of
Video Poker Times, how to make dollar money playing quarter video
poker. What play would you rather have, 1% on dollars or 4% on
quarters? I'll take the 4% on quarters. It's the same hourly rate
with a lot less gamble. No one else ever taught how to get that kind
of edge. I think I may have had $30 invested in those two little
books but would have payed thousands for the information had I known
what it would lead to for me.

I'll try to calm down now. Good Luck.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

I wrote:
> Damn, Mickey, I didn't figure you to step up on the "guru bashing"
> bandwagon. I thought you had better things to amuse/educate us

with ...

This was a reply that might have best been laid aside until I had a
chance to mull it over. On occasion, the group administrator has
moderated a post of mine because it was deemed to be an attempt to
exercise my own inappropriate moderation of another's post.

While that's not my intent here, I'm prepared for my post to be
received in that manner. In case it is, I'll make my points in the
affirmative ...

-- The vp writers who have shared their knowledge are a primary

source

of insight for all players.

-- Those writers, Dancer in particular, have spelled out the tools
necessary to evaluate games and, for those inclined to step through
the minutiae and necessary complexities, to determine optimum

strategies.

···

-- Any person who professes to be knowledgable and shares that
knowledge publicly becomes an easy target for criticism, largely
because they share a part of themselves that most keep private. The
manner in which criticism is lobbed defines the critic.

- Harry

mickeycrimm wrote:

I took no offense, Harry. You've probably heard the Merle Haggard
song "Walkin' on the fightin' side of me." Well, when someone bashes
Paymar their "walkin' on the fightin' side of me." So I have been a
little hot under the collar lately. About 10 years ago I learned
through 2 little books by Paymar, Precision Play and The Best of
Video Poker Times, how to make dollar money playing quarter video
poker.

Okay ... you climb another notch up :slight_smile:

I steer clear of the Paymar/Dancer dispute. Being generally averse to
conflict ("blessed are the peacemakers", right? ;), I bristle when it
rears its head. But I expect I wouldn't shy away when I found myself
fundamentally at odds with someone.

I have remarked in the past that I have great admiration for "Optimum
Play" -- it was ground breaking when published and a very respectable
read now for the learning player.

- Harry

Because of Mickey's constant praise of Paymar's Precision Play--I bought the book and plan on reading it on my next vacation--which is in one week--woohoo!!!! I hope
  it's not toooooo math intensive because then it won't be fun for me. . . . Anyway, Thanks Mickey!

···

Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:mickeycrimm wrote:

I took no offense, Harry. You've probably heard the Merle Haggard
song "Walkin' on the fightin' side of me." Well, when someone bashes
Paymar their "walkin' on the fightin' side of me." So I have been a
little hot under the collar lately. About 10 years ago I learned
through 2 little books by Paymar, Precision Play and The Best of
Video Poker Times, how to make dollar money playing quarter video
poker.

Okay ... you climb another notch up :slight_smile: . . . . . . . . ..

Jean H--
   
  You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
  And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Suess

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