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You are all lost in your own myopia (was What is costing Harrahs

Posted by: "caplatinum "You are all tilting at windmills. Now if this group wanted to stand
on a sidewalk and pass out leaflets to people why they should not
play traditional slots and 6:5 BJ, that they are getting ripped off -
Harrah's might give you some games to shut you up - but venting on
these boards is a waste. "

I dont think venting is a waste;)

I wonder if one of the potential causes of the decline of good gambling is the success that so many of the Native American Casinos experience? Atlantic City too. People just love to gamble and will spend their bankroll on whatever. Not really caring about how awful the paytables or the gamble is.

I would guess the casinos in Las Vegas have been watching this pattern for years and understand the knowledgeable gambler is rare compared to the other gamblers.

If I was running the Casino it would be hard for me not to act on this information. If people will play crummy paytables and my bottom line improves .... well its not rocket science.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We are saying the same thing - the masses don't know any better they
need to be educated-

-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John Nonnweiler Jr." <jrnjr@...>
wrote:

Posted by: "caplatinum "You are all tilting at windmills. Now if

this group wanted to stand

on a sidewalk and pass out leaflets to people why they should not
play traditional slots and 6:5 BJ, that they are getting ripped

off -

Harrah's might give you some games to shut you up - but venting on
these boards is a waste. "

I dont think venting is a waste;)

I wonder if one of the potential causes of the decline of good

gambling is the success that so many of the Native American Casinos
experience? Atlantic City too. People just love to gamble and will
spend their bankroll on whatever. Not really caring about how awful
the paytables or the gamble is.

I would guess the casinos in Las Vegas have been watching this

pattern for years and understand the knowledgeable gambler is rare
compared to the other gamblers.

If I was running the Casino it would be hard for me not to act on

this information. If people will play crummy paytables and my bottom
line improves .... well its not rocket science.

···

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John Nonnweiler Jr." <jrnjr@...>
wrote:

Posted by: "caplatinum "You are all tilting at windmills. Now if

this group wanted to stand

on a sidewalk and pass out leaflets to people why they should not
play traditional slots and 6:5 BJ, that they are getting ripped

off -

Harrah's might give you some games to shut you up - but venting on
these boards is a waste. "

I dont think venting is a waste;)

I wonder if one of the potential causes of the decline of good

gambling is the success that so many of the Native American Casinos
experience? Atlantic City too. People just love to gamble and will
spend their bankroll on whatever. Not really caring about how awful
the paytables or the gamble is.

I would guess the casinos in Las Vegas have been watching this

pattern for years and understand the knowledgeable gambler is rare
compared to the other gamblers.

If I was running the Casino it would be hard for me not to act on

this information. If people will play crummy paytables and my bottom
line improves .... well its not rocket science.

While a lot of this is true there's one problem with the logic here
on a casino's part. Yes, the uneducated will play anything BUT, the
educated won't play at all.

The thing is, the casinos will make make money off the uneducated on
the better paytables like NSUD and 9/6 jacks & the educated players
as well - athough not quite as much off of them. By removing the
games and/or downgrading paytables, they'll still make money off the
uneducated but will make NOTHING off the educated.

Personally if I were a casino manager I'd offer a limited amount of
games so I'd at least have a shotat the educated player's money.
Without these games I don't have a chance to win it from them
because they aren't playing in my casino.

The number of educated players who play machines as opposed to
blackjack (and yes I know some play both but I know many BJ aps who
never play machines) is so small as to not matter. It is probably
less than 1% of players and for sure on the Strip it is. Local
casinos have to be a little more loose generally, but look at
Station's, how many good machines do they have? They dediced
correctly that enough people wiil play inferior machines for casinos
closer to their homes with good parking and lots of affordable food
choices and people will play tighter machines in a nicer box than if
those machines were in a dingy box = so they put up more expensive
buildings and less loose machines and build some rooms for tourists
who will pay for them.

You are trying to convince yourself, why they need you and the
answer is they don't.

The limited number of machines is the worst idea by th way. Some
casinos try your system and then the APs crush the few good machines
and there is no hold and they get pulled. Now if they put in lots of
good machines, some only semi-knowledgable players will also get a
chance to play and then the machines will have a hold% to them. I
think the worst thing for good video poker is when a casino puts in
only a few good machines, because I already know what the results
are going to be and that will be the end of the experiment. Imagine
the difference though if a casino advertised all video poker is 99%
or better?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John Nonnweiler Jr." <jrnjr@>
wrote:
>
> Posted by: "caplatinum "You are all tilting at windmills. Now if
this group wanted to stand
> on a sidewalk and pass out leaflets to people why they should

not

> play traditional slots and 6:5 BJ, that they are getting ripped
off -
> Harrah's might give you some games to shut you up - but venting

on

> these boards is a waste. "
>
> I dont think venting is a waste;)
>
> I wonder if one of the potential causes of the decline of good
gambling is the success that so many of the Native American

Casinos

experience? Atlantic City too. People just love to gamble and will
spend their bankroll on whatever. Not really caring about how

awful

the paytables or the gamble is.
>
> I would guess the casinos in Las Vegas have been watching this
pattern for years and understand the knowledgeable gambler is rare
compared to the other gamblers.
>
> If I was running the Casino it would be hard for me not to act

on

this information. If people will play crummy paytables and my

bottom

line improves .... well its not rocket science.

While a lot of this is true there's one problem with the logic

here

on a casino's part. Yes, the uneducated will play anything BUT,

the

educated won't play at all.

The thing is, the casinos will make make money off the uneducated

on

the better paytables like NSUD and 9/6 jacks & the educated

players

as well - athough not quite as much off of them. By removing the
games and/or downgrading paytables, they'll still make money off

the

uneducated but will make NOTHING off the educated.

Personally if I were a casino manager I'd offer a limited amount

of

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "stungazed" <stungazed@...> wrote:

games so I'd at least have a shotat the educated player's money.
Without these games I don't have a chance to win it from them
because they aren't playing in my casino.

{Sarcasm on} Perhaps you can replicate the great success
of the national anti-lottery campaigns. Once
people know what a sucker bet they're facing
no one will play. {Sarcasm off}

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:

We are saying the same thing - the masses don't know any better they
need to be educated-

Local casinos have to be a little more loose generally, but look at
Station's, how many good machines do they have?

A lot more than the Coast Casinos.

Imagine the difference though if a casino advertised all video poker
is 99% or better?

Coast Casinos eliminated FPVP and advertised 99% VP. As a non-local, I
get no BB. I have not visited them since, even though I really liked
the Suncoast and Goldcoast. Coast casinos not only lost me as a
customer, but also the many visiting friends relatives who have no
real idea of correct play. Now, when we get together, I steer them to
Boyds
Casinos, Rampart, etc. Harrahs casinos have been a no-go years ago.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:

You can get same day cash back at Coast and the highest rates in
town. By the way, Boyd owns Coast now, so if you support Biyd, you
are helping Coast. You mean Coast eliminated FPDW and other games
that returned over 100%, it was still appropriate for them to
advertise 99% video poker if they had 9/6 Jacks, 8/5 Bonus or 9/7
DB.More recently, Coast has downgraded again and it was the Boyd
people they put in charge of these Coast casinos that made that
decision.

Stations has a handful of optimum pay machines, I wouldn't make the
judgement of how loose a place is by six machines. I play higher
denom, there are no Optium machines in my play range there. In fact,
Bellagio is far looser than Stations for big coin play. Stations
only has loose machines on a handful of games, where the hourly win
rate is not enough for many people to be worthwhile. On many big
coin games their DB is 9/6 not 9/7 and certainly not 10/7.

> Local casinos have to be a little more loose generally, but look

at

> Station's, how many good machines do they have?

A lot more than the Coast Casinos.

> Imagine the difference though if a casino advertised all video

poker

> is 99% or better?

Coast Casinos eliminated FPVP and advertised 99% VP. As a non-

local, I

get no BB. I have not visited them since, even though I really

liked

the Suncoast and Goldcoast. Coast casinos not only lost me as a
customer, but also the many visiting friends relatives who have no
real idea of correct play. Now, when we get together, I steer

them to

Boyds
Casinos, Rampart, etc. Harrahs casinos have been a no-go years

ago.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pumpkin1034" <pumpkin1034@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@> wrote:

Actually, I do hand out blackjack basic strategy cards that explain
not to play 6/5 BJ or on CSM or Super Fun 21. I do it for that very
reason. So that I feel like I am doing more than just bitching
about lousy games compared to yesterday.

You can get the cards at bj21.com if anyone is interested.

···

"You are all tilting at windmills. Now if this group wanted to stand
on a sidewalk and pass out leaflets to people why they should not
play traditional slots and 6:5 BJ, that they are getting ripped
off - Harrah's might give you some games to shut you up - but
venting on these boards is a waste. "