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XVP --- Legal Questions Sought

#1

On next Thursday’s “Gambling with an Edge” radio show, attorneys Bob Nersesian and I Nelson Rose will both be guests. The format will be for Richard and I to pose a question and let those two go at it — hopefully at least some of the time they’ll have differing opinions. And then five or so minutes later, pose another question.

Richard and I are searching for good gambling-legal questions to pose to these attorneys. the best questions will be those where intelligent people can differ as to the right answer. The show will be taped Monday night for the airing at the usual time, so any questions suggested must be by Monday noon. You can post them here or at gamblingwithane…@…com

Thanx

Bob

#2

On next Thursday's "Gambling with an Edge" radio show, attorneys Bob Nersesian and I Nelson Rose will both be guests. The format will be for Richard and I to pose a question and let those two go at it --- hopefully at least some of the time they'll have differing opinions. And then five or so minutes later, pose another question.

Richard and I are searching for good gambling-legal questions to pose to these attorneys. the best questions will be those where intelligent people can differ as to the right answer. The show will be taped Monday night for the airing at the usual time, so any questions suggested must be by Monday noon. You can post them here or at gamblingwithanedge@gmail.com

Thanx

Bob
              
Don't forget the one about using devices to "obtain an advantage." I
was once threatened with being detained for writing with a pencil for
that purpose, but I don't think that would make a good question for
your guests. I'm concerned about looking up strategies on my iPhone
while I'm playing. More and more, I've leaned towards making small
mistakes rather than risk being sent to jail. What do they think?

#3

Don’t forget the one about using devices to “obtain an advantage.” I

was once threatened with being detained for writing with a pencil for

that purpose, but I don’t think that would make a good question for

your guests. I’m concerned about looking up strategies on my iPhone

while I’m playing. More and more, I’ve leaned towards making small

mistakes rather than risk being sent to jail. What do they think?

···

We’ve asked Nersesian about this more than once. He is adamant that using an iPhone even to look up a strategy is against Nevada’s device law. Perhaps we could summarize Nersesian’s views on this and ask Rose if he agrees.

Bob

#4

Here is my question

I was given a $1000 “bonus”—like slot dollars from Harrahscasino. com in New Jersey. I played the amount through over several different gaming sessions (days) on a number of different slot, video poker, black jack, and roulette games and ended up apparently converting that $1000 dolars into slightly over $1200. Now the online casino has sent me the paperwork to complete for a W2 form saying the winnings—in whole are taxable because it was won on “bonus” money even no one event netted a win bigger than $450.00—is this correct/ legal ?

···

To: vpf…@…com
From: vpF…@…com
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 21:31:44 -0700
Subject: [vpFREE] XVP — Legal Questions Sought

On next Thursday’s “Gambling with an Edge” radio show, attorneys Bob Nersesian and I Nelson Rose will both be guests. The format will be for Richard and I to pose a question and let those two go at it — hopefully at least some of the time they’ll have differing opinions. And then five or so minutes later, pose another question.

Richard and I are searching for good gambling-legal questions to pose to these attorneys. the best questions will be those where intelligent people can differ as to the right answer. The show will be taped Monday night for the airing at the usual time, so any questions suggested must be by Monday noon. You can post them here or at gamblingwithane…@…com

Thanx

Bob

#5

This may be a bit obtuse, but an interesting question that came up while I was watching some friends play the Table game Ultimate Texas Hold’Em.The casino had a $5.00 minimum table. The player hit the bottom end of a Straight Flush. It was possible that the dealer could hit the top end of the Straight Flush. So for simplicity:

Player: 3s 4s
Board: 5s - 6s - 7s - X - X
Dealer 8s 9s (hypothetically)

The player had made a Trips Side Bet and a Bad Beat Side Bet for $5.00 each. The Trips side Bet pays 40 to 1 for $200 on a Straight Flush.

The Bad Beat pays based on the lower of the losing hands between the Player and the House. If the Dealer had the Top End of the Straight Flush, it would pay 10,000 to 1 for a SFL losing to a higher SFL. On a $5.00 bet this would have been $50,000!

The dealer in this situation did not have the SFL, but the dealer pointed to the sign on the table that limited the Casino’s aggregate payout on an individual hand to $25,000 per player.

Can the Casino not pay out the full advertized payout on a Table Game when a player is betting the minimum bet?

Would the answer change if they allowed you to bet $1 to $25 on the Side Bet VS. The casino required you to bet a minimum of $5.00 on the Bad Beat Side Bet?

(I’m sure this has come up on other table games before too, where the casino tried to duck liability based on an aggregate payout per hand. i.e. Pai Gow, Mississipi Stud) I’ve seen some Aggregate Payouts per Table, and others Per Player on and individual hand.

#6

Cynical_Realist@yahoo.com wrote:

This may be a bit obtuse

I think you might mean "abstruse." "Obtuse" means dense and simple
minded.

#7

Can the Casino not pay out the full advertized payout on a Table Game when a player is betting the minimum bet?

Would
the answer change if they allowed you to bet $1 to $25 on the Side Bet
VS. The casino required you to bet a minimum of $5.00 on the Bad Beat Side Bet?

(I’m sure this has come up on other table games before too, where the casino tried to duck liability based on an aggregate payout per hand. i.e. Pai Gow, Mississipi Stud) I’ve seen some Aggregate Payouts per Table, and others Per Player on and individual hand.

···

this one may or may not make the cut. Whether it does or doesn’t, I thank each of the people who have submitted possible questions.

My personal opinion is that so long as there is a clear sign posted limiting the payout to $xxxxx, the casino can enforce that limit.

Many tables have different minimums and maximums at various times. At really slow times it might be possible to bet $1 or $2 on these side bets. At really busy times, there could conceivably be a $10 or bigger minimum. A sign stating the maximum payout would presumably be a constant fixture whatever the table minimum is.

I’m making up these numbers, but such a sign could easily change the return on the side bet from, say, a 6% house edge to 6.4%. (obviously this varies by game, by side bet, and what the maximum payout limit is). These limits could well make a difference in whether a player made the bet — or in some cases (not this one) how he played a particular hand.

Anyway, that’s just my two cents. Richard and I are voting on which questions to ask in which order. And the lawyers will be given a head’s up on the questions so their answers don’t have to be “off the cuff” and they will have the right to veto any question.

Although we have “enough” questions, there is always room for more good ones.

Bob