vpFREE2 Forums

XVP - Hold 'Em questions

Tom,

A fellow hold'em player? Great! Without risking turning this into a Hold'em forum, I must concur on your suggestions about the book and software. I too have a dusty copy of Turbo Texas Hold'em. It is to Hold'em what Winpoker is to VP and maybe even one step further.

I played "professionally" as a prop [for those uninitiated, that is NOT a shill. A shill plays with the house's money, a "prop" plays with his own money]

Also, as some added advice to the original poster. When picking a game be sure you don't have a lot of props. You can ask and they must tell you if they are shills or props by gaming commission law. The only reason to identify them is to rule out a game as much tougher to beat with people who make their living by doing it. I know, I did it successfully off and on for 12 years.

Other advice to the novice... learn your players well. Pay as much attention to learning the players as to learning the mechanics of good play. If you are in LV, scout out tables for a couple of weeks at different spots you plan on playing at. However it's easiest for you, learn who to call and who not to call. Once you learn the "rocks" in the games, you're a couple of buy-in's ahead already.

Also, learn positional play as well. Learn who to sit in front of, learn who to sit behind, to best initiate betting, calling and folding.

Rule#1 LEARN HOW TO FOLD A HAND EARLY!!!!

Much like VP, when you've got the best of it, be aggressive. You won't always win, but in the long run you will come out way ahead. A good rule of thumb is put the least amount of money in on weak hands, the most money in on strong hands.

Another bit... momentum can be a big factor in low limit games. When you are on a roll and doing well, other players adjust their play and make bad calls, or drop when they should stay in. Which brings up a somewhat contradictory comment. IN LOW LIMIT GAMES PLAYERS DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE WORD "FOLD" MEANS. <g>

And never belittle a bad play, bad player, or anyone who "rivers" you. You want them to play bad. You can't win every hand. There's only one hand that's important, that's the last hand. If you win the last hand you'll never go home broke. :>

When I played regularly in the SoCal games 15/30 limit [the toughest games, even admitted by many/most LV players] I learned to set limits. I regularly used a "stop loss" system of money management, much like a stock order. If I bought in for $400, once I got $200 ahead I'd put that money up front so to speak. If I lost it back, I was done for the session. If I won more, I'd keep $200 in front of me every time I'd win a pot, the rest going into my back line, never to be "seen" again. That allows you to let your wins unlimited, but gives you a point to stop at once the streak turns against you.

I'd be more than glad to have "Donald" write to my privately and discuss any further points on hold'em so as not to turn the thread into a novel. I played a lot more than 15 years, more like 30 years, but for recreation until the last 15 years that I propped.

ADR

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At 09:20 PM 3/1/03, you wrote:

Finally a question that I know something about.

I played "professionally" as a prop [for those uninitiated, that

is NOT a

shill. A shill plays with the house's money, a "prop" plays with

his own money]

I think I know what a shill is. I do not know what a prop is.
Would someone define both.

DWK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, adr <adr@b...> wrote:

Props stands for "Public Relations Players" even though the initials don't seem so. The house pays them a salary, usually around $100 to $150 a day to play in games up to about $10/20. They use their own money. They keep what they win, and eat what they lose. 80% of them fail within 90 days. The local California poker clubs exclusively use props, no shills.

A shill is merely a paid player of the casino. They get something like [low limit games only] $40 a day. The house tells them EXACTLY what hands to play and not play and they are watched. The house gives them something like $100 in chips and they turn the chips back in when their shift is over. They are rock solid, usually old men [I should talk at 56] who are supplementing their SS.

ADR

···

At 06:59 PM 3/2/03, you wrote:

I think I know what a shill is. I do not know what a prop is.
Would someone define both.

Thanks

>I think I know what a shill is. I do not know what a prop is.
>Would someone define both.

Props stands for "Public Relations Players" even though the

initials don't

seem so. The house pays them a salary, usually around $100 to $150

a day to

play in games up to about $10/20. They use their own money. They

keep what

they win, and eat what they lose. 80% of them fail within 90 days.

The

local California poker clubs exclusively use props, no shills.

A shill is merely a paid player of the casino. They get something

like [low

limit games only] $40 a day. The house tells them EXACTLY what

hands to

play and not play and they are watched. The house gives them

something like

$100 in chips and they turn the chips back in when their shift is

over.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, adr <adr@b...> wrote:

At 06:59 PM 3/2/03, you wrote:
They are rock solid, usually old men [I should talk at 56] who are
supplementing their SS.

ADR

Hi ADR,

I am currently a lurker in this group as I am still fairly new to VP. I
currently work as a prop player in the Bay Area. Where did you work,

For the person wanting low limits holdem book recommendations, I agree
with low limit holdem for beginners - it saved me when I was a bad losing
3-6 player and was a great book to read until I was ready for David
Sklansky's books. I also recommend Theory of Poker highly! While it is a bit
advanced, start reading it now and reread again and again. This book teaches
you how to think like a winning poker player and is in my opinion the best poker
book I have ever invested in.

Sabyl
sabyl@speakeasy.org

"Life is like a game of cards. The hand that is dealt you represents
determinism; the way you play it is free will."
--Jawaharlal Nehru

···

On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, adr wrote:

At 06:59 PM 3/2/03, you wrote:
>I think I know what a shill is. I do not know what a prop is.
>Would someone define both.

Props stands for "Public Relations Players" even though the initials don't
seem so. The house pays them a salary, usually around $100 to $150 a day to
play in games up to about $10/20. They use their own money. They keep what
they win, and eat what they lose. 80% of them fail within 90 days. The
local California poker clubs exclusively use props, no shills.

A shill is merely a paid player of the casino. They get something like [low
limit games only] $40 a day. The house tells them EXACTLY what hands to
play and not play and they are watched. The house gives them something like
$100 in chips and they turn the chips back in when their shift is over.
They are rock solid, usually old men [I should talk at 56] who are
supplementing their SS.

ADR

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Another excellent book, once the beginner or home player gets their feet set, is "Hold'em Poker For the Advanced Player" by Sklansky/Malmuth.

I worked in Gardena until its fall. Moved on to Bell Club, till the IRS closed it. Finished my "career" at the California Commerce Club. <G> I was basically propping the $15/30 Hi-Low split game at the end. Too big! Not enough pay. When I still play, it's either 3/6 hold'em or Omaha.

Feel free to contact me privately if we want to exchange any other ideas or bang around "prop stories". :>

ADR

···

At 11:22 PM 3/2/03, you wrote:

a great book to read until I was ready for David
Sklansky's books. I also recommend Theory of Poker highly! While it is a bit
advanced, start reading it now and reread again and again.