vpFREE2 Forums

XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend

#1

Today I went to Ellis Island to turn in my bounce back cash and I had recently found a cash out ticket for $6.50 from April. So I very nicely asked the gentleman cashier if they would honor the small ticket. The cashier said sarcastic no. Looked at the ticket and frowned and said there only good for 60 days.
   
  I was under the impression that most casino's will honor a ticket even if it was expired?
   
  Your probably going to spend the money in the casino anyways?
   
  Has anyone else been declined a cash out?
   
  Trent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

See the wizrdofodds site about a winning sports bet ticketed declined for a large amoutn but eventually paid. The $6.50 for Ellis Island represents a brick for their building. If they give you the money it could collapse the structure.

···

--- On Sat, 9/27/08, patrick <pat90218@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: patrick <pat90218@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 6:36 PM

            Today I went to Ellis Island to turn in my bounce back cash and I had recently found a cash out ticket for $6.50 from April. So I very nicely asked the gentleman cashier if they would honor the small ticket. The cashier said sarcastic no. Looked at the ticket and frowned and said there only good for 60 days.

  I was under the impression that most casino's will honor a ticket even if it was expired?

  Your probably going to spend the money in the casino anyways?

  Has anyone else been declined a cash out?

  Trent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I don't think your comparison to what happened to the Wizard of Odds
is similar. He's collecting a large sports wager and you're
collecting an expired tito ticket. In Ellis Island's defense,
they've always treated me well. Perhaps you might try talking with
someone else there to see if the situation might be resolved. --- In
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

See the wizrdofodds site about a winning sports bet ticketed

declined for a large amoutn but eventually paid. The $6.50 for Ellis
Island represents a brick for their building. If they give you the
money it could collapse the structure.

From: patrick <pat90218@...>
Subject: [vpFREE] XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 6:36 PM

            Today I went to Ellis Island to turn in my bounce back

cash and I had recently found a cash out ticket for $6.50 from
April. So I very nicely asked the gentleman cashier if they would
honor the small ticket. The cashier said sarcastic no. Looked at the
ticket and frowned and said there only good for 60 days.

  I was under the impression that most casino's will honor a

ticket even if it was expired?

···

--- On Sat, 9/27/08, patrick <pat90218@...> wrote:

  Your probably going to spend the money in the casino anyways?

  Has anyone else been declined a cash out?

  Trent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Just like others in this group, I am going to give my opinions.

The 'resolution' to the Ellis Island issue appears to be "TITO tickets
are only good for 60 days." It may not be the resolution that the
ticket holder wants. But, it's a resolution, nonetheless.

I think the comparison to what happened to the Wizard of Odds is
absolutely right on target. The Wiz attempted to cash an expired
winning sports book ticket, which had a disclaimer printed right
on it, stating when it would expire. The size of the winning sports
wager vs. the TITO ticket is irrelevant. Both vouchers were expired
when they were attempted to be cashed.

Casinos have the 'right' to honor expired vouchers, but are not
'required' to do so.

Curtis

···

On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Ben <bud.hall@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I don't think your comparison to what happened to the Wizard of Odds
is similar. He's collecting a large sports wager and you're
collecting an expired tito ticket. In Ellis Island's defense,
they've always treated me well. Perhaps you might try talking with
someone else there to see if the situation might be resolved

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...>
wrote:
>
> See the wizrdofodds site about a winning sports bet ticketed
declined for a large amoutn but eventually paid. The $6.50 for Ellis
Island represents a brick for their building. If they give you the
money it could collapse the structure.
>
>
> --- On Sat, 9/27/08, patrick <pat90218@...> wrote:
> Today I went to Ellis Island to turn in my bounce back
cash and I had recently found a cash out ticket for $6.50 from
April. So I very nicely asked the gentleman cashier if they would
honor the small ticket. The cashier said sarcastic no. Looked at the
ticket and frowned and said there only good for 60 days.
>
> I was under the impression that most casino's will honor a
ticket even if it was expired?
>
> Your probably going to spend the money in the casino anyways?
>
> Has anyone else been declined a cash out?
>
> Trent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Two comments:

1. I think there's a good chance the ticket would have been honored if
you took it "up the chain" and talked to someone in Sr. Mgt. Maybe
not, but it only takes a few minutes, can't hurt you, and I think is
worth doing just for the principal.

2. Some people defend casinos who enforce these 60 day "ticket void"
policies. I don't agree. This is a dishonest way for the casino to
take your money. I expect casino accounting departments all keep a
statistic that shows profits on expired tickets.

If the ticket is authentic and valid it should be honored no matter how
old. This is especially true if you were using a players club card and
the casino can positively identify you as the owner of the ticket.

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

#6

... Some people defend casinos who enforce these 60 day "ticket void"

policies. I don't agree. This is a dishonest way for the casino to
take your money. I expect casino accounting departments all keep a
statistic that shows profits on expired tickets.

Exactly. This is simply a cheap shot by the casinos to take advantage
of those who forget to cash tickets/ lose them temporarily/ leave town
without cashing, intending to cash on their next visit, etc.

Several sportsbooks in Vegas have a one year expiration on their
sportsbook tickets.
As the Wizard's website pointed out, there is no valid excuse for a 60
day (or less) expiration other than to take advantage of an arbitrary
technicality in order to avoid paying the customer.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mac McClellan" <mac_mcclellan@...> wrote:

#7

I know that here in California at least in the case of gift certificates it's illegal for them to "expire" since good money was paid to acquire them in the first place. It sort of seems like a similar issue regarding tito tickets - they obviously represent "real" money and as such perhaps by the letter of the law they shouldn't be able to expire.

As far as the casino identifying someone as the "owner of the ticket" through a player's card, I don't know how that could happen as there's no identification on a ticket as to "who" cashed it out of a machine.

Valerie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

I know that here in California at least in the case of gift

certificates it's illegal for them to "expire" since good money was
paid to acquire them in the first place. It sort of seems like a
similar issue regarding tito tickets - they obviously represent "real"
money and as such perhaps by the letter of the law they shouldn't be
able to expire.

Gambling debts are not covered under Common Law. I can't recall but I
believe tickets in California Indian Casinos are good for only 60 days
also.

As far as the casino identifying someone as the "owner of the

ticket" through a player's card, I don't know how that could happen as
there's no identification on a ticket as to "who" cashed it out of a
machine.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Under BSA regulations, casinos are
required to gather information about their customers. I suspect
tickets are therefore fully traceable.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@...> wrote:

#9

The ownership excuse is very weak as it is a bearer document. But even int he case of a late cashout, the casino could have a form where the one cashing the ticket states that he or she is the legal owner of the ticket

···

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Valerie Pollard <vpollard@socal.rr.com> wrote:
From: Valerie Pollard <vpollard@socal.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 4:19 PM

            I know that here in California at least in the case of gift certificates it's illegal for them to "expire" since good money was paid to acquire them in the first place. It sort of seems like a similar issue regarding tito tickets - they obviously represent "real" money and as such perhaps by the letter of the law they shouldn't be able to expire.

As far as the casino identifying someone as the "owner of the ticket" through a player's card, I don't know how that could happen as there's no identification on a ticket as to "who" cashed it out of a machine.

Valerie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

The ticket identifies the machine from which it came and the time stamp. The machine also keeps track through the card readers which slot card was inserted. Depending on whether or not this data is purged tracing it back to who was really playing should not be difficult but the cost in employee time might be more than $6.50

···

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: nightoftheiguana2000 <nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 8:19 PM

            --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "Valerie Pollard" <vpollard@.. .> wrote:

I know that here in California at least in the case of gift

certificates it's illegal for them to "expire" since good money was

paid to acquire them in the first place. It sort of seems like a

similar issue regarding tito tickets - they obviously represent "real"

money and as such perhaps by the letter of the law they shouldn't be

able to expire.

Gambling debts are not covered under Common Law. I can't recall but I

believe tickets in California Indian Casinos are good for only 60 days

also.

As far as the casino identifying someone as the "owner of the

ticket" through a player's card, I don't know how that could happen as

there's no identification on a ticket as to "who" cashed it out of a

machine.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Under BSA regulations, casinos are

required to gather information about their customers. I suspect

tickets are therefore fully traceable.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...>
wrote:

The ownership excuse is very weak as it is a bearer document. But

even int he case of a late cashout, the casino could have a form where
the one cashing the ticket states that he or she is the legal owner of
the ticket

I suspect that ultimately this is more about accounting than hosing
customers. These are carried as liabilties until they 'expire'.
Without some expiration timing, it would be a perpetual liability. I
also suspect like others that if you carried this up the ladder even a
little you'd get this cashed, especially since it's a small amount of
money.

#12

<<I suspect that ultimately this is more about accounting than hosing
customers. These are carried as liabilties until they 'expire'.
Without some expiration timing, it would be a perpetual liability.>>

It's not the job of the accountant to direct corporate policy.

In any case, they could account for uncashed tickets any way they choose.
Move them from liability to income at some point, and then if they're cashed
after that, post an offsetting transaction to the income account. It's not
rocket science.

There is no business justification for refusing to return a patron's money
after issuing what is essentially a claim check. It costs essentially
nothing to keep that ticket information in the database.

Cogno

#13

I had an issue with an MGM cashout (~$100)that I could not find but I knew was expiring. I called MGM and they told me if I did not find it in time they would still honor it but I would have to bring it to the main cage. I called the main cage and the person was very nice and told me to deal directly with them if it becomes an issue. I ended up finding it and cashed it in within the time period but I appreciated MGM staff willingness to work with me even before it became a problem.

Bill
Palms Moderator

···

--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Ben <bud.hall@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

From: Ben <bud.hall@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 28, 2008, 10:01 AM

I don't think your comparison to what happened to the Wizard of Odds
is similar. He's collecting a large sports wager and you're
collecting an expired tito ticket. In Ellis Island's defense,
they've always treated me well. Perhaps you might try talking with
someone else there to see if the situation might be resolved. --- In
vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@ ...> wrote:

See the wizrdofodds site about a winning sports bet ticketed

declined for a large amoutn but eventually paid. The $6.50 for Ellis
Island represents a brick for their building. If they give you the
money it could collapse the structure.

--- On Sat, 9/27/08, patrick <pat90218@.. .> wrote:
From: patrick <pat90218@.. .>
Subject: [vpFREE] XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups. com
Date: Saturday, September 27, 2008, 6:36 PM

Today I went to Ellis Island to turn in my bounce back

cash and I had recently found a cash out ticket for $6.50 from
April. So I very nicely asked the gentleman cashier if they would
honor the small ticket. The cashier said sarcastic no. Looked at the
ticket and frowned and said there only good for 60 days.

I was under the impression that most casino's will honor a

ticket even if it was expired?

Your probably going to spend the money in the casino anyways?

Has anyone else been declined a cash out?

Trent

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#14

Very true. In fact they could keep a printout of expired tickets, amounts, and details on hand at the main cage, adn as they are cashed cross them off the list. This would require expired tickets to be cashed at the main cage only, a reasonable inconvenience.

···

--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: XVP: Ellis Island Cash Out Ticket Decliend
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 7:24 AM

            <<I suspect that ultimately this is more about accounting than hosing

customers. These are carried as liabilties until they 'expire'.

Without some expiration timing, it would be a perpetual liability.>>

It's not the job of the accountant to direct corporate policy.

In any case, they could account for uncashed tickets any way they choose.

Move them from liability to income at some point, and then if they're cashed

after that, post an offsetting transaction to the income account. It's not

rocket science.

There is no business justification for refusing to return a patron's money

after issuing what is essentially a claim check. It costs essentially

nothing to keep that ticket information in the database.

Cogno

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]