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XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your liberty

#1

Illegal detentions ignored by state

By ROBERT A. NERSESIAN
SPECIAL TO THE REVIEW-JOURNAL

Nevada's casino industry continues to act as if it is above the law.
Time and again, patrons legally playing with an advantage suffer
imprisonment and even beatings at the hands of casino security
personnel. It's well past time that something be done to stop these
incidents.

I write as an attorney mired in this disgusting practice. I represent
legal advantage gamblers and others abused by casinos and the state.

Full story here:
http://tinyurl.com/9v8rh

#2

This is a REALLY scary article. Even discounting some of the rhetoric
as hyberbole from a high powered defense attorney, it mystifies me
that casinos have the authority to perpetrate this egregious behavior.

Most of what I know of this outrageous conduct, I have viewed on The
Travel Channel while watching one of their LV documentaries. They
frequently show casino surveillance tapes with scenes of "cheaters"
being captured. Of course, the viewer is always told that the players,
who are mishandled in this fashion, are liars, thieves & cheats.
Reading this article causes me to consider that what I've seen could
conceivably have a more sinister connotation.

The only time I have personally seen something of this nature to
occur, was in the 70's (BEFORE VP, and while the Chicago mob was still
controlling some LV casinos). I was playing my favorite slot-machine
in the wee hours of the morning, next to a friend. She directed my
attention to two young men, their arms tied behind their backs with
rope, and their feet shackled together, being forcefully escorted by
four casino security guards, out of the casino area. We asked a slot
person standing nearby if he knew what was going on. Grim-faced, he
said that the two men were casino employees, but he had no idea what
that they had done. My friend and I ruminated for hours about what
possible fate might have befallen those two terrified guys, but we
never heard or read anything about the incident. We certainly
wouldn't have been surprised to learn that they were buried in the
desert!

I do think that anyone who knowingly cheats or steals from a casino,
has a few bulbs missing from their chandelier!

Babe

···

-------------------------------------------------------

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:
Illegal detentions ignored by state

By ROBERT A. NERSESIAN
SPECIAL TO THE REVIEW-JOURNAL Nevada's casino industry continues to
act as if it is above the law. Time and again, patrons legally
playing with an advantage suffer imprisonment and even beatings at
the hands of casino security personnel. It's well past time that
something be done to stop these incidents. I write as an attorney
mired in this disgusting practice. I represent legal advantage
gamblers and others abused by casinos and the state.

#3

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

This is a REALLY scary article. Even discounting some of the

rhetoric

as hyberbole from a high powered defense attorney, it mystifies me
that casinos have the authority to perpetrate this egregious

behavior.

I'm sorry but the casinos are private enterprises and as such, private
property, and they have the right to allow or eject from their
property, persons they deem as undersirable.

Yes, there are incidents where some security staffs abuse their
authority, but I truly believe that many more are professional rather
then reckless cowboys. Quality supervision and management will reduce
the number of said incidents.

If you don't like the history of an establishment in this area, simply
don't play there.

#4

1. Based on what do you "truly" believe this?
2. Are you an advantage player & therefore subject to this kind of
treatment or are you another who just plays for fun & comments without
experience?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegastraveler2004"
<vegastraveler2004@y...> wrote:

···

I'm sorry but the casinos are private enterprises and as such, private
property, and they have the right to allow or eject from their
property, persons they deem as undersirable.

Yes, there are incidents where some security staffs abuse their
authority, but I truly believe that many more are professional rather
then reckless cowboys. Quality supervision and management will reduce
the number of said incidents.

If you don't like the history of an establishment in this area, simply
don't play there.

#5

The casinos use every ploy at their disposal to entice players to come
into their house and partake of their product. Having done that, w/o a
disclaimer stating that "only losers are welcome to play here", I
don't think that they should be permitted to physically or verbally
intimidate the player just because he is winning.

As one of my friends said in a private email to me, "there's a huge
difference between ejecting a player because the casino suits may feel
that his or her play is "too strong" for them, or roughing that player
up in a back room". I couldn't agree more.

Babe

···

--------------------------------------------
In vpFREE@yahoogroups "vegastraveler2004"<vegastraveler2004@ywrote:

I'm sorry but the casinos are private enterprises and as such, private
property, and they have the right to allow or eject from their
property, persons they deem as undersirable.

#6

OUCH!

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Boutot" <vegas_iwish@y...>
wrote:

1. Based on what do you "truly" believe this?
2. Are you an advantage player & therefore subject to this kind of
treatment or are you another who just plays for fun & comments

without

···

experience?

#7

IMO, availability of a service similar to the following would be quite
useful to "advantage players". Perhaps for an advance fee of some $50,
player would be given a phone number which is answered 24x7, to be
called--presumably from player's cellphone--in event of casino security
attempting to "backroom" the player. If, after call is received,
player is able to converse and give location, possibility of
dispatching an attorney can be discussed.
If call is received but is cut off before any conversation can occur,
dispatch personnel would immediately return the call, and ask to speak
to player. If necessary, advising whoever answered that "we have a
pretty good idea of player's location; put him on the line RIGHT NOW,
or we will ask Metro Police to see to his physical safety".
Overall intent being to induce casino to either release player or turn
him over to Metro Police.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:

Illegal detentions ignored by state

By ROBERT A. NERSESIAN
SPECIAL TO THE REVIEW-JOURNAL

Nevada's casino industry continues to act as if it is above the law.
Time and again, patrons legally playing with an advantage suffer
imprisonment and even beatings at the hands of casino security
personnel. It's well past time that something be done to stop these
incidents.

I write as an attorney mired in this disgusting practice. I represent
legal advantage gamblers and others abused by casinos and the state.

Full story here:
http://tinyurl.com/9v8rh

#8

........... If necessary, advising whoever answered that "we

have a pretty good idea of player's location; put him on the line RIGHT
NOW, or we will ask Metro Police to see to his physical safety".

Overall intent being to induce casino to either release player or turn
him over to Metro Police.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I wish I had your confidence that Metro Police would come to the rescue
of advantage players. There was a fairly recent and well publicized
case in Las Vegas in which an advantage player who was in the process
of being dragged to the backroom yelled out to the other casino
patrons "someone please call the police". The police in fact were
called, and when they arrived they arrested HIM (the advantage player)
for "creating a disturbance" because he yelled for people to call the
police!!!!

If I remember correctly, I think this police charge against the
advantage player actually went to trial, and was promptly dismissed by
the judge who probably couldn't believe what she was hearing.

Always keep in mind that Las Vegas is a company town. The casinos are
the "company", and the local police are part of the "town". Draw your
own conclusions....

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sphboc2003" <sphboc@a...> wrote:

#9

>>>>>>>........... If necessary, advising whoever answered that "we
have a pretty good idea of player's location; put him on the line

RIGHT

NOW, or we will ask Metro Police to see to his physical safety".
> Overall intent being to induce casino to either release player or

turn

> him over to Metro Police.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I wish I had your confidence that Metro Police would come to the

rescue

of advantage players. There was a fairly recent and well

publicized

case in Las Vegas in which an advantage player who was in the

process

of being dragged to the backroom yelled out to the other casino
patrons "someone please call the police". The police in fact were
called, and when they arrived they arrested HIM (the advantage

player)

for "creating a disturbance" because he yelled for people to call

the

police!!!!

If I remember correctly, I think this police charge against the
advantage player actually went to trial, and was promptly dismissed

by

the judge who probably couldn't believe what she was hearing.

Always keep in mind that Las Vegas is a company town. The casinos

are

the "company", and the local police are part of the "town". Draw

your

own conclusions....

EE

I would not be overly surprised to hear that police do, from time to
time, make arrests which later turn out to be unjustified. Even so,
they make every effort to treat arrested persons in a civilized
manner; minimally, to the extent of refraining from physical abuse.
Point of my prior post was that some casino security personnel have
little or no respect for suspects' civil rights, and see nothing
inherently wrong with inflicting various forms of mistreatment. One
of the more-effective deterrents to such conduct is awareness that a
given suspect's whereabouts are a matter of record . .

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter" <eecounter@h...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sphboc2003" <sphboc@a...> wrote:

#10

>>>>>>>........... If necessary, advising whoever answered

that "we

have a pretty good idea of player's location; put him on the line

RIGHT

NOW, or we will ask Metro Police to see to his physical safety".
> Overall intent being to induce casino to either release player

or turn

> him over to Metro Police.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I wish I had your confidence that Metro Police would come to the

rescue

of advantage players. There was a fairly recent and well

publicized

case in Las Vegas in which an advantage player who was in the

process

of being dragged to the backroom yelled out to the other casino
patrons "someone please call the police". The police in fact were
called, and when they arrived they arrested HIM (the advantage

player)

for "creating a disturbance" because he yelled for people to call

the

police!!!!

If I remember correctly, I think this police charge against the
advantage player actually went to trial, and was promptly

dismissed by

the judge who probably couldn't believe what she was hearing.

Always keep in mind that Las Vegas is a company town. The casinos

are

the "company", and the local police are part of the "town". Draw

your

own conclusions....

EE

EE

Good points. Visit Nevada and leave the U.S. But if Metro wishes
to take you somewhere they are law enforcement and security is not.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter" <eecounter@h...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sphboc2003" <sphboc@a...> wrote:

#11

Without disputing the seriousness of the situation when back rooming does
occur, is this really a big problem for video poker players in Nevada? I
have been monitoring this forum for a while now and can recall reports of
people being backed off, losing slot club privileges and even possibly told
not to return, but I can recall only one report where a vp player was back
roomed. Maybe I have a case of selective memory, but it seems pretty
uncommon. My sympathies to other advantage gamblers where this practice may
occur with more regularity.

Chandler

#12

Chandler wrote:

Without disputing the seriousness of the situation when back rooming
does occur, is this really a big problem for video poker players in
Nevada?

No ... which is one reason I imagine Bob Sommer would prefer to see
the topic dropped here. There are other forums where the audience is
more apropos.

Still, any general matter concerning the treatment of players by the
casino is of tangential interest to us and thus not an altogether
inappropriate topic.

- Harry

#13

I have never run into the topic so inappropriate that I could not ignore it.
I leave that particular judgement to others. I just thought I'd point out
that the sky doesn't appear to be falling today;-)

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Harry Porter
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 6:46 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: XVP: CASINO 'SECURITY'?: Gambling with your
liberty

Still, any general matter concerning the treatment of players by the
casino is of tangential interest to us and thus not an altogether
inappropriate topic.

- Harry