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Would someone please write about pros/cons of daily/trip average?

Would like to start a thread with the ultimate result that someone would
write about this subject in one of the widely-read publications with the
hopes that some casino will change this system before I switch over to CA
gambling. As an out-of-towner, I've always hated the daily/trip average game
but I play it to maximize the benefits. As I've gotten more experience, I've
learned to play this game at just a few casinos in each locale that I care to
stay at & average-be-damned at the other places.

From a casino standpoint, the advantages are:
--Lower comp costs & cheap marketing. Few customers ever get close to using
all their comps & the casinos can claim generous comps. The customers that
demand the limit are eventually "selected" out. The generous offers are
usually during slow traffic times which doesn't cost them much. Result:
casinos can claim a high comp % which they never come close to.

--Placing that average in front of a player presents a goal that has to be
satisfied in a relatively limited amount of time. You can shorten the time by
moving up in denomination but that introduces wider swings (what's the
correct word: volatility or variance or?). Most of us have to play at the
lower denominations in order to avoid having our limited bankroll wiped out.
This takes more time but introduces other factors that may offset the lower
swings and lead to more mistakes--alcohol, tiredness, boredom, obnoxious
neighbors, barely-costumed cocktail waitresses.

--Reaching that daily/trip average is the ball-and-chain that keeps most
players at one casino where he/she will spend more money or spend more time
trying to get everything comped. Net effect: greater amount held or more
revenue from other activities.

Some of the disadvantages that the casinos haven't considered or don't have a
handle on (UNLV thesis?):
--Frequent visitors have learned this game & have learned to avoid spending
any time in a trip-average casino unless it's connected to a stay or an
event. (Excellent reference: "Getting Tripped" article by Royal Cat in Feb
2001 Strictly Slots. Unfortunately, it's not publicly available online. Can
anyone post how to get it?)

--Frequent visitors have also learned to be more clock-conscious & not gamble
before or after certain hours or they will be "tripped".

--As the single slot card spreads to all casinos in a family, this means no
casual play in any of the casinos in the family lest you ruin your daily/trip
average. The hosts have told me that they can always review these periods of
little play & ignore them for comp considerations but they have no answer
when I ask if the computer will ignore them when Marketing runs a play
analysis for future events.

--The trip average system was designed to build loyalty to a casino or family
of casinos. Maybe it does boost the numbers initially. In the long run, as
players find out that there are casinos that let you bank your points so that
they will be available at the start of the next trip. It's not a hard choice
to select between casino A which has you start fresh earning comps every trip
& casino B which banked comps earned on prior trips.

--Nowadays, education of players is taking place at a much faster pace.
Assuming that repeat customers are what the casinos want, as players learn
the pros & cons of each system, those that burn out players' bankrolls for
the sake of quarterly numbers will have the lowest repeat customers.

Locals are playing a similar game, in that most are interested in trying to
get as much cash bounceback for as little play as possible. This works as
long as the casino doesn't change/discontinue the future bounceback.

In any case, I just wanted to get the ball rolling on what I consider a poor
system for the player. However it needs to be seen from the casinos'
viewpoint if any improvement is to ever take place.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As an AC local, I really don't pay much attention to trip averages. I play when and where I want and just take whatever goodies I'm offered. These are much better in AC than in Vegas. And, I should add, I seldom take a room.
   I'm more likely to go to a casino in the first place if they're giving away something that day. Of course, I'll stay and play a few hours. If I just feel like hitting the casinos, I have a couple of favorite joints, and I decide which one I'll hit that night.
   I have found, at least in AC, that short "trips" do not hurt my offers. Sometimes I stop in and play for an hour or so. Sometimes I stop to pick up an offer I want, and play only 15 minutes because I have to be somewhere else. The offers still come as long as I give them enough overall action. Again, I don't want rooms and RFB packages, just bounceback, comps and occasional gifts.
   When I go to Vegas, I stay at the joints that offer me the best room deal, and give them at least a few hours of play a day in exchange. But I also like to hop around town, and see what comes in the mail. Unfortunately, I end up paying for most of my meals when I go to Vegas, but that's life.
    Some casinos let you "bank" your comps, or base your perks on the total amount of play you give over a certain period of time. So if you earn 1,000 points in one trip or in 10, you are just as valuable to the casino and get the comps accordingly. You may want to concentrate your play in one or two of those. You have to test the waters a bit and patronize the joints that reward the way you like to play.
   Blessings and royals to all.

Elaine
TedChee@aol.com wrote:<snip> As an out-of-towner, I've always hated the daily/trip average game
but I play it to maximize the benefits. As I've gotten more experience, I've
learned to play this game at just a few casinos in each locale that I care to
stay at & average-be-damned at the other places.

···

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have written about this in considerable detail in "More Frugal Gambling."
I also talk about this at length at the casino executive conferences where I
am a speaker.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

I have written about this in considerable detail in "More Frugal Gambling."
I also talk about this at length at the casino executive conferences where I
am a speaker.

  I wonder if these people actually listen to you at these speeches.
Most casinos are run by good-ole-boy networks. Those that are not seem
to be dominated by the slightly lower life form we commonly refer to
as bean counters. I have to wonder if you are casting pearls before swine.
Have you actually seen any casinos implement your ideas? If so, how did
the customers and casinos like the changes?

  By the way, since they are paying you well for this service, it is
hardly a waste of your time, but it might be a waste of their time and
money.

  QZ

<<I wonder if these people actually listen to you at these speeches.>>

A writer or a speaker never expects to convince everyone. I like the earthy
saying, "If you throw enough sh..t against a wall, some of it will
eventually stick."

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

Jean-

   When will More Frugal Gambling be available to the general gambling public? I'm waiting with bated breath.

Elaine
Jean Scott <queenofcomps@lvcm.com> wrote:I have written about this in considerable detail in "More Frugal Gambling."

···

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<< When will More Frugal Gambling be available to the general gambling
public? I'm waiting with bated breath.>>

Don't hold your breath - bated or no!! :slight_smile: Seriously, the book is in
Anthony's hands. However, he is busy - as usual - with many other
publishing projects. It was supposed to come out in November - but I think
it is going to be more like the middle of December. I am just hoping that
it will be available to mail out before Christmas. I will be taking
advanced orders on my Internet site (below) just as soon as the book is into
the printers and I have a more definite release date. This will be the only
place you can order an autographed copy.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

Bob Dancer was supposed to come out with a book this fall describing his
adventure into million dollar bankrolls. Bob just wirtes so well that this
should be a very interesting book. Any idea when it will be out, or if it
is now?

<<Bob Dancer was supposed to come out with a book this fall describing his
adventure into million dollar bankrolls. Bob just writes so well that this
should be a very interesting book. Any idea when it will be out, or if it
is now?>>

His book is in the same situation with Huntington Press as mine. Supposed
to come out in November - but probably more like mid-December, hopefully
before Christmas. I have read the manuscript of "Million Dollar VP" and it
is very interesting.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

The last that I heard was that it was coming out in November.

Skip Hughes published a review of the book in the October
issue of Video Poker Player. In the review he indicated
that it was "due out soon".

The final words of the review:

" It's a fast, interesting read. Highly recommended."

I too enjoy reading Bob's various columns and am looking
forward to the book.

-Larry

--- In vpFREE@y..., "Dick Kalagher" <dick@k...> wrote:

Bob Dancer was supposed to come out with a book this fall

describing his

adventure into million dollar bankrolls. Bob just wirtes so well

that this

should be a very interesting book. Any idea when it will be out,

or if it

···

is now?