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Wizard of Odds Strategy for 8-5 ACE$ Bonus Poker vs. regular 8-5 Bonus Pokerþ

#1

Anyone out there dabble in creating a strategy for 8-5 ACE$ Bonus
Poker? This is an offshoot of 8-5 Bonus Poker, providing an
additional 4,000 coin bonus for 4 special aces arranged in sequence,
either ACE$- or -ACE$. This game returns 99.41% compared to 99.17%
for 8-5 Bonus Poker.

As instructed in Wizard of Odds, I took Jean Scott's Frugal Video
Poker program and produced 5 different strategies using the different
paybacks for 4 Aces, using 80 coins for Aces in wrong position, 94
coins for NO Aces at all (basic 8-5 strategy), 110 coins for 1 Ace in
position, 200 for 2 Aces in position and 440 for 3 Aces in position.
Fine, that I did and I have 5 separate little strategies for each of
these ace positions.

But, am I right to presume that I need to use each strategy
SEPARATELY in conjunction with the 5 different Aces positions, as
listed above in the Wizard of Odds link? Or is there is a single
strategy that would combine all of these Ace positions?

Of interest, in comparing the 5 different strategies, the only REAL
difference I see in play is when you have 3 Aces in position vs. a
PAT Full House - there you would break up the Full House. This
differs from the basic 8-5 Bonus Poker strategy. But with 2 Aces in
position you would keep the Full House, just like in 8-5 Bonus Poker.
I could be missing something, but this is what I am seeing.

Any feedback out there would really be great. I initially assumed the
strategy for ACE$ Bonus Poker would be roughly the same as 8-5 Bonus
Poker, because catching the 4 aces in sequence (either ACE$- or -ACE$)
is such a rare occurence.

John Hunady

#2

John Hunady,

As the Wizard indicates, you generate five different strategies with
varying payouts for quad Aces depending on the number of Aces that
appear in correct position on the deal. If any appear in the INCORRECT
position (even if others are in the correct positions), you use 80
coins per coin (so 400 on a typical 5-coin machine) for quad Aces,
which is the standard 8/5 Bonus Poker payout. If no Aces appear on the
deal, you use 94 for quad Aces. If exactly one Ace appears, and it's in
the correct position, you use 110 for quad Aces. If exactly two Aces
appear, and they're both in the correct position, you use 200 for quad
Aces. Finally, if exactly three Aces appear, and they're all in the
correct position, you use 440 for quad Aces.

Obviously, if you're dealt the winning ACE$- or -ACE$, you hold
everything and collect 800 coins per coin. Similarly, if you're dealt
quad Aces but NOT in position, you still hold all and collect 80 coins
per coin.

You then compare the five generated strategies to find the differences.
As you indicated, the main difference is that, dealt three correct Aces
(and not quad Aces), you hold the three Aces regardess of the other
cards. Thus, you'd break a pat Full House for the draw to the three
correctly-positioned Aces. This change is VERY important on those rare
hands where you're dealt a pat FH but with three correctly-positioned
Aces: the 5-coin EV for three correctly-positioned Aces is 109.5282, as
compared to only 40 for the pat FH.

If you consider the effect of penatly cards, then some minor changes
occur for a single correctly-positioned Ace (the 110 strategy) versus a
single incorrectly-positioned Ace (the 80, or "normal", strategy). I
generated the results below using VPSM.

Normal 8/5 BP Strategy (EV's are for five coins):

     2.4098 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.4092 JTs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.4027 AK, AQ, AJ
     2.3959 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.3808 QTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3793 JTs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3648 Jack, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3647 Ace, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3538 JTs, Any 3 Pen
     2.3415 Ace, 1+ Fl.Pen

Single Ace, correctly positioned (EV's are for five coins):

     2.4120 AK, AQ, AJ
     2.4098 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.4092 JTs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.4017 Ace, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3959 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.3808 QTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3793 JTs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3785 Ace, 1+ Fl.Pen

First, you should realize that the Wizard's idea of altering the value
of the quad Aces is not a perfect solution. You need to analyze the
five resulting strategies to account for whether or not you have a
chance for the ACE$ bonus. For instance, if you're dealt an Ace, a
Jack, and garbage, and the Ace is correctly positioned, the EV of
holding the AJ unsuited is 2.4120 (per five coins) ONLY IF THE JACK
DOES NOT PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING THE ACE$ BONUS. Thus, the EV is
2.4120 only if the J is in either the first or the last position;
otherwise, the EV of this hold is the value reported for the Normal
strategy: 2.4027.

Let's consider a particular example. First of all, I don't know which
Ace has which symbol, so I'll just assume that the Spade Ace is the one
with the "A" symbol. Say we're dealt As, 3c, 9d, Jh, Th, so the lone
Ace is correctly positioned. If we hold the A and J, then we cannot get
the ACE$ bonus, since the J is "in the way". Therefore, the EV of
holding the AJ is only 2.4027. If you look at either table above,
you'll see that holding the suited Jack and Ten (with the straight
penalty for discarding the unsuited 9) has a higher EV: 2.4092. Thus,
with this deal we'd hold the suited JT and discard the Ace, 3, and 9.

Now instead say we're dealt the same five cards but in this order: As,
3c, 9d, Th, Jh. Now if we hold the AJ, the Jack is NOT in the way of
the ACE$ bonus, so the EV for this hold is indeed 2.4120, which is
higher than the suited JT EV of 2.4092, so now we'd hold the AJ.

Granted, such a small change in EV will probably not be terribly
important to your overall results: I just wanted to show you that you
can't always take the strategies generated by VPSM (or any other
package) at face value if you're trying to calculate something
different than the package was designed to calculate.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

#3

John Hunady,

As the Wizard indicates, you generate five different strategies

with

varying payouts for quad Aces depending on the number of Aces that
appear in correct position on the deal. If any appear in the

INCORRECT

position (even if others are in the correct positions), you use 80
coins per coin (so 400 on a typical 5-coin machine) for quad Aces,
which is the standard 8/5 Bonus Poker payout. If no Aces appear on

the

deal, you use 94 for quad Aces. If exactly one Ace appears, and

it's in

the correct position, you use 110 for quad Aces. If exactly two

Aces

appear, and they're both in the correct position, you use 200 for

quad

Aces. Finally, if exactly three Aces appear, and they're all in the
correct position, you use 440 for quad Aces.

Obviously, if you're dealt the winning ACE$- or -ACE$, you hold
everything and collect 800 coins per coin. Similarly, if you're

dealt

quad Aces but NOT in position, you still hold all and collect 80

coins

per coin.

You then compare the five generated strategies to find the

differences.

As you indicated, the main difference is that, dealt three correct

Aces

(and not quad Aces), you hold the three Aces regardess of the other
cards. Thus, you'd break a pat Full House for the draw to the three
correctly-positioned Aces. This change is VERY important on those

rare

hands where you're dealt a pat FH but with three correctly-

positioned

Aces: the 5-coin EV for three correctly-positioned Aces is

109.5282, as

compared to only 40 for the pat FH.

If you consider the effect of penatly cards, then some minor

changes

occur for a single correctly-positioned Ace (the 110 strategy)

versus a

single incorrectly-positioned Ace (the 80, or "normal", strategy).

I

generated the results below using VPSM.

Normal 8/5 BP Strategy (EV's are for five coins):

     2.4098 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.4092 JTs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.4027 AK, AQ, AJ
     2.3959 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.3808 QTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3793 JTs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3648 Jack, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3647 Ace, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3538 JTs, Any 3 Pen
     2.3415 Ace, 1+ Fl.Pen

Single Ace, correctly positioned (EV's are for five coins):

     2.4120 AK, AQ, AJ
     2.4098 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.4092 JTs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.4017 Ace, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3959 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.3808 QTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3793 JTs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3785 Ace, 1+ Fl.Pen

First, you should realize that the Wizard's idea of altering the

value

of the quad Aces is not a perfect solution. You need to analyze the
five resulting strategies to account for whether or not you have a
chance for the ACE$ bonus. For instance, if you're dealt an Ace, a
Jack, and garbage, and the Ace is correctly positioned, the EV of
holding the AJ unsuited is 2.4120 (per five coins) ONLY IF THE JACK
DOES NOT PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING THE ACE$ BONUS. Thus, the EV is
2.4120 only if the J is in either the first or the last position;
otherwise, the EV of this hold is the value reported for the Normal
strategy: 2.4027.

Let's consider a particular example. First of all, I don't know

which

Ace has which symbol, so I'll just assume that the Spade Ace is the

one

with the "A" symbol. Say we're dealt As, 3c, 9d, Jh, Th, so the

lone

Ace is correctly positioned. If we hold the A and J, then we cannot

get

the ACE$ bonus, since the J is "in the way". Therefore, the EV of
holding the AJ is only 2.4027. If you look at either table above,
you'll see that holding the suited Jack and Ten (with the straight
penalty for discarding the unsuited 9) has a higher EV: 2.4092.

Thus,

with this deal we'd hold the suited JT and discard the Ace, 3, and

9.

Now instead say we're dealt the same five cards but in this order:

As,

3c, 9d, Th, Jh. Now if we hold the AJ, the Jack is NOT in the way

of

the ACE$ bonus, so the EV for this hold is indeed 2.4120, which is
higher than the suited JT EV of 2.4092, so now we'd hold the AJ.

Granted, such a small change in EV will probably not be terribly
important to your overall results: I just wanted to show you that

you

can't always take the strategies generated by VPSM (or any other
package) at face value if you're trying to calculate something
different than the package was designed to calculate.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Hi Dog Hand,

Thank you so very much for this in depth analysis, especially the
tiome you were so gracious to spare!

Yesterday, I took a test trip to a casino that has this game (before
I saw your e-mail). Now, the next day, I just saw youe e-mail .....
hence my response. Your penalty card analysis opened my eyes.

Yesterday, I felt uneasy just using my 5 generated strategies (FVP)
as described in Wizard at this point. However, I did modify Jean
Scott's 8-5 Bonus Poker strategy for these conditions, which were
kind of intuitive:

1) Toss a pat AAAxx Full House and keep AAA if the Aces are in
correct position. Yes, that is very important. On this trip howver, I
wasn't confronted with this issue.

2) With a single Ace IN CORRECT POSITION with another high card (AK,
AQ, AJ), then I merely dumped the other card and kept the Ace, except
if the Jack, Queen or King is in first or last position.

3) For 2 or 3 Aces, play regular strategy, except if confronted with
a pat AAAxx, then use strategy above in #1

I now see your penalty card analysis is more exact. Will this give me
much more of an edge, especially for a 25 or 50 cent player?

Again, thanks for this insight .... it makes this game a LOT more
interesting than 8-5 Bonus poker ALONE!

Too bad I can't use Jean Scott or Bob Dancer's software to practice
this unusual game!

Again .... Much Appreciated,
F. John Hunady

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "doghand21" <doghand21@...> wrote:

#4

John Hunady,

If you're playing a $1 5-coin machine (so $5 per spin), then holding
the three correctly-positioned Aces rather than the pat FH is worth
nearly $70 in EV ($109.5282 - $40 = $69.5282): obviously, that's a
gigantic gain! Even at quarters, that's still almost $17.50 in EV.

Now the penalty card situations I described (for a deal of As, 3c,
9d, Jh, Th) concerning when to play the suited JT vs. the lone
correctly-positioned Ace all have EV differences of less than 1 cent
at the dollar level of play. The largest difference was a whopping
$2.4092 - $2.4027 = $0.0065, or 0.65 cents. Of course, at quarters
this drops to only about 0.16 cents.

You "rule #2" idea of ALWAYS holding the correctly-positioned lone
Ace, and only holding the Jack (or Queen or King) as well if it's in
the first or fifth position, seems to be a reasonable simplification
when you're dealt A,h,x,x,x. At worst, it appears it will cost you
less than 4 cents at dollars (or less than 1 cent at quarters).

By the way, I saw this game recently at quarters at Coushatta Casino
Resort in Kinder, Louisiana, in case you decide to take a southern
vacation.

Dog Hand

P.S. I'm sorry you didn't get this information in time for your
recent outing... I typed my response as fast as I could! :wink:

#5

Doghand,

Regarding your P.S. (typing speed), that's quite okay! This was a
spur of the moment trip (actual casino decided upon at the last
momemnt) and there were other full pay games to play, like 9-6 JOB
(99.54%) , 8-5 Bonus Poker (99.17%), NSU Deuces Wild (99.73%) and 9-6
DDB (98.98%) in addition to 8-5 Ace$ Bonus. But 8-5 Ace$ Bonus seemed
to be the most interesting (probably because it is new to me).

Interesting ... that is really quite a gain with the three correctly
positioned Aces vs. a pat FH. I knew it was a large gain play, but
not that much.

So, it appears (intuitively) that I can take the basic 8-5 Bonus
Poker and amend it as follows:

1) AAAxx - Keep AAA if correctly positioned, otherwise keep pat FH.
2) AAxxy - Keep AA if correctly positioned, otherise keep 2 pair and
draw for a FH.
3) AHxyz - Keep AH if H (high card) is same suit OR H is in first or
last postion (not blocking potential -ACE$ or ACE$- draw).

I think this is it. Hopefully, I can MANUALLY insert these plays into
my basic 8-5 Bonus Poker strategy card from FVP. I may use VPSM
instead because each play shows the actual return, not a ranking like
in FVP. What do you think?

It would sure be nice if I could actually practice this game on
either Scott's FVP or Dancer's VPW, but that is not an option. This
game will probably disappear soon anyway.

Thanks for the tip regarding this game at the Coushatta Casino Resort
in Kinder, Louisiana. It is pretty far away. I found this game at
Pechanga Resort Casino in Temecula, CA which is just over an hour
from me. I have also seen ACE$ Bonus Poker at casinos in the Palm
Springs area as well as San Manuel in San Bernadino, but I think they
were less than full pay.

Again, thanks for the info .. :slight_smile:
John

John Hunady,

If you're playing a $1 5-coin machine (so $5 per spin), then

holding

the three correctly-positioned Aces rather than the pat FH is worth
nearly $70 in EV ($109.5282 - $40 = $69.5282): obviously, that's a
gigantic gain! Even at quarters, that's still almost $17.50 in EV.

Now the penalty card situations I described (for a deal of As, 3c,
9d, Jh, Th) concerning when to play the suited JT vs. the lone
correctly-positioned Ace all have EV differences of less than 1

cent

at the dollar level of play. The largest difference was a whopping
$2.4092 - $2.4027 = $0.0065, or 0.65 cents. Of course, at quarters
this drops to only about 0.16 cents.

You "rule #2" idea of ALWAYS holding the correctly-positioned lone
Ace, and only holding the Jack (or Queen or King) as well if it's

in

the first or fifth position, seems to be a reasonable

simplification

when you're dealt A,h,x,x,x. At worst, it appears it will cost you
less than 4 cents at dollars (or less than 1 cent at quarters).

By the way, I saw this game recently at quarters at Coushatta

Casino

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "doghand21" <doghand21@...> wrote:

Resort in Kinder, Louisiana, in case you decide to take a southern
vacation.

Dog Hand

P.S. I'm sorry you didn't get this information in time for your
recent outing... I typed my response as fast as I could! :wink:

#6

<*snip*>

So, it appears (intuitively) that I can take the basic 8-5 Bonus
Poker and amend it as follows:

1) AAAxx - Keep AAA if correctly positioned, otherwise keep pat FH.
2) AAxxy - Keep AA if correctly positioned, otherise keep 2 pair

and

draw for a FH.
3) AHxyz - Keep AH if H (high card) is same suit OR H is in first

or

last postion (not blocking potential -ACE$ or ACE$- draw).

<*snip*>

John Hunady,

Rule 1 is exactly correct, and Rule 3 is correct for suited AH and,
as we've discussed earlier in this thread, a reasonable
simplification for unsuited AH.

Rule 2, though, is flat-out wrong. Given a draw of two aces, both
correctly-positioned, the appropriate 5-coin EV's are as follows:

    12.5532 Two Pair
    10.6383 4 STFL, Inside
    10.0789 Pair Aces

As you can see, holding AA over Two Pair will cost you nearly $2.50
at dollars (or over 60 cents at quarters): that's far too much to
give away just to simplify the strategy. Here, of course, if you hold
Two Pair you have no chance for the ACE$ bonus, so the location of
the non-Ace pair is immaterial.

Therefore, overall you need make only two changes to your normal 8-5
BP strategy. They're shown below, set off with "**", and the EV's and
Paytable are for 5-coin play:

     ACE$ BONUS POKER
   VPSM Advanced Strategy
   modified by Dog Hand

  4000.0000 Pat Royal
   400.0000 Four Aces
   250.0000 Pat Straight Flush
   200.0000 Four 2,3,4
   125.0000 Pat Four 5's to K's
   109.5282 **3 CP Aces**
    91.3830 4 Royal
    40.0000 Pat Full House
    32.9325 3 Aces
    25.0000 Pat Flush
    24.4218 3 Twos, Threes or Fours
    21.2303 3 Fives to Kings
    20.0000 Pat Straight
    16.7553 4 STFL, Open
    12.5532 Two Pair
    10.6383 4 STFL, Inside
     8.4138 Pair Aces
     7.6506 Pair JJ, QQ, KK
     7.4653 KQJs, 0 Pen
     7.4514 QJTs, 0 Pen
     7.3636 QJTs, 1 St.Pen only
     7.3173 KQJs, 1 St.Pen only
     7.2572 KQJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     7.2433 QJTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     7.0953 QJTs, Any 2 Pen
     7.0352 KQJs, Any 2 Pen
     6.9796 AKQs, AKJs, AQJs, 0 Pen
     6.9658 KQTs, KJTs, 0 Pen
     6.8918 AKQs,AKJs,AQJs, 1 St.Pen only
     6.8779 KQTs, KJTs, 1 St.Pen only
     6.7715 AKQs,AKJs,AQJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     6.7576 KQTs, KJTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     6.6836 AKQs, AKJs, AQJs, Any 2 Pen
     6.6698 KQTs, KJTs, Any 2 Pen
     6.4801 AKTs, AQTs, AJTs, 0 Pen
     6.3367 AKTs,AQTs,AJTs, 1 St.Pen only
     6.2720 AKTs,AQTs,AJTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     6.1841 AKTs, AQTs, AJTs, Any 2 Pen
     5.1063 4 Flush
     4.3617 4 ST, Open, 3 Hi Cards (KQJT)
     4.2757 Pair 22, 33, 44
     4.0675 Pair 55 to TT
     3.9894 4 ST, Open, 2 Hi Cards (QJT9)
     3.7234 4 ST, Open, 1 Hi Card (JT98)
     3.4413 QJ9s, 0 Pen
     3.4135 JT9s, 0 Pen
     3.4043 4 ST, Open, 0 Hi Cards
     3.3673 QJ9s, 1+ Pen
     3.3395 JT9s, 1+ Pen
     2.9978 QJs, 0 or Any 1 Pen
     2.9756 KQs, KJs, 0 Pen
     2.9704 QJ8s
     2.9691 AKQJ
     2.9584 QJs, Any 2 Pen
     2.9556 3 STFL, Open, 0 Hi Cards
     2.9232 KQ9s, KJ9s
     2.9093 QJs, Any 3 Pen
     2.9063 KQs, KJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     2.9010 AKs, AQs, AJs, 0 Pen
     2.8955 QT9s, JT8s, J98s
     2.8881 KQs, KJs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.8818 KQs, KJs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.8580 AKs, AQs, AJs, 1 St.Pen only
     2.8316 AKs, AQs, AJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     2.8187 KQs, KJs, Any 3 Pen
     2.7786 AKs, AQs, AJs, Any 2 Pen
     2.7638 AKs, AQs, AJs, Any 3 Pen
     2.6596 4 ST, Inside, 3 Hi Cards
     2.5763 KQJ
     2.5214 JTs, 0 Pen
     2.5134 QJ
     2.4838 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 0 St.Pen
     2.4647 KQ, KJ, 0 St.Pen
     2.4521 JTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     2.4514 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 0 St.Pen
     2.4450 KQ, KJ, 1+ St.Pen
     2.4120 **CP AK, AQ, AJ**
     2.4098 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.4092 JTs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.4027 AK, AQ, AJ
     2.3959 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.3808 QTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3793 JTs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3648 Jack, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3647 Ace, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3538 JTs, Any 3 Pen
     2.3415 Ace, 1+ Fl.Pen
     2.3206 Queen, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3111 King, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3098 Jack, 1+ Fl.Pen
     2.3074 QTs, 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3047 Queen, 1+ Fl.Pen
     2.3019 KTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.2938 King, 1+ Fl.Pen
     1.9843 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 0 Hi Cards
     1.7915 Redraw

               PAYTABLE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "johnhunady" <johnhunady@...> wrote:
    ------------------------------
    4000 Royal Flush
    4000 ACE$- or -ACE$
     250 Straight Flush
     400 Four Aces
     200 Four 2-4s
     150 Four 5-Ks
      40 Full House
      25 Flush
      20 Straight
      15 Three of Kind
      10 Two Pair
       5 Jacks or Better

The abbreviation "CP" of course stands for "Correctly Positioned",
and in the case of AH refers to both the Ace and the H (the H must be
in positions 1 or 5, of course). I didn't add any other changes,
since they would change the EV but not the relative hand rankings.
For example, "Pair of CP Aces" would come just above the listing
for "Pair of Aces", so you'd hold the ace pair regardless of whether
they're CP or not.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

P.S. If you'd like the complete MS Excel file, shoot me an email.

#7

<*snip*>
> So, it appears (intuitively) that I can take the basic 8-5 Bonus
> Poker and amend it as follows:
>
> 1) AAAxx - Keep AAA if correctly positioned, otherwise keep pat

FH.

> 2) AAxxy - Keep AA if correctly positioned, otherise keep 2 pair
and
> draw for a FH.
> 3) AHxyz - Keep AH if H (high card) is same suit OR H is in first
or
> last postion (not blocking potential -ACE$ or ACE$- draw).
<*snip*>

John Hunady,

Rule 1 is exactly correct, and Rule 3 is correct for suited AH and,
as we've discussed earlier in this thread, a reasonable
simplification for unsuited AH.

Rule 2, though, is flat-out wrong. Given a draw of two aces, both
correctly-positioned, the appropriate 5-coin EV's are as follows:

    12.5532 Two Pair
    10.6383 4 STFL, Inside
    10.0789 Pair Aces

As you can see, holding AA over Two Pair will cost you nearly $2.50
at dollars (or over 60 cents at quarters): that's far too much to
give away just to simplify the strategy. Here, of course, if you

hold

Two Pair you have no chance for the ACE$ bonus, so the location of
the non-Ace pair is immaterial.

Therefore, overall you need make only two changes to your normal 8-

5

BP strategy. They're shown below, set off with "**", and the EV's

and

Paytable are for 5-coin play:

     ACE$ BONUS POKER
   VPSM Advanced Strategy
   modified by Dog Hand

  4000.0000 Pat Royal
   400.0000 Four Aces
   250.0000 Pat Straight Flush
   200.0000 Four 2,3,4
   125.0000 Pat Four 5's to K's
   109.5282 **3 CP Aces**
    91.3830 4 Royal
    40.0000 Pat Full House
    32.9325 3 Aces
    25.0000 Pat Flush
    24.4218 3 Twos, Threes or Fours
    21.2303 3 Fives to Kings
    20.0000 Pat Straight
    16.7553 4 STFL, Open
    12.5532 Two Pair
    10.6383 4 STFL, Inside
     8.4138 Pair Aces
     7.6506 Pair JJ, QQ, KK
     7.4653 KQJs, 0 Pen
     7.4514 QJTs, 0 Pen
     7.3636 QJTs, 1 St.Pen only
     7.3173 KQJs, 1 St.Pen only
     7.2572 KQJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     7.2433 QJTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     7.0953 QJTs, Any 2 Pen
     7.0352 KQJs, Any 2 Pen
     6.9796 AKQs, AKJs, AQJs, 0 Pen
     6.9658 KQTs, KJTs, 0 Pen
     6.8918 AKQs,AKJs,AQJs, 1 St.Pen only
     6.8779 KQTs, KJTs, 1 St.Pen only
     6.7715 AKQs,AKJs,AQJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     6.7576 KQTs, KJTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     6.6836 AKQs, AKJs, AQJs, Any 2 Pen
     6.6698 KQTs, KJTs, Any 2 Pen
     6.4801 AKTs, AQTs, AJTs, 0 Pen
     6.3367 AKTs,AQTs,AJTs, 1 St.Pen only
     6.2720 AKTs,AQTs,AJTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     6.1841 AKTs, AQTs, AJTs, Any 2 Pen
     5.1063 4 Flush
     4.3617 4 ST, Open, 3 Hi Cards (KQJT)
     4.2757 Pair 22, 33, 44
     4.0675 Pair 55 to TT
     3.9894 4 ST, Open, 2 Hi Cards (QJT9)
     3.7234 4 ST, Open, 1 Hi Card (JT98)
     3.4413 QJ9s, 0 Pen
     3.4135 JT9s, 0 Pen
     3.4043 4 ST, Open, 0 Hi Cards
     3.3673 QJ9s, 1+ Pen
     3.3395 JT9s, 1+ Pen
     2.9978 QJs, 0 or Any 1 Pen
     2.9756 KQs, KJs, 0 Pen
     2.9704 QJ8s
     2.9691 AKQJ
     2.9584 QJs, Any 2 Pen
     2.9556 3 STFL, Open, 0 Hi Cards
     2.9232 KQ9s, KJ9s
     2.9093 QJs, Any 3 Pen
     2.9063 KQs, KJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     2.9010 AKs, AQs, AJs, 0 Pen
     2.8955 QT9s, JT8s, J98s
     2.8881 KQs, KJs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.8818 KQs, KJs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.8580 AKs, AQs, AJs, 1 St.Pen only
     2.8316 AKs, AQs, AJs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     2.8187 KQs, KJs, Any 3 Pen
     2.7786 AKs, AQs, AJs, Any 2 Pen
     2.7638 AKs, AQs, AJs, Any 3 Pen
     2.6596 4 ST, Inside, 3 Hi Cards
     2.5763 KQJ
     2.5214 JTs, 0 Pen
     2.5134 QJ
     2.4838 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 0 St.Pen
     2.4647 KQ, KJ, 0 St.Pen
     2.4521 JTs, 1 Fl.Pen only
     2.4514 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 0 St.Pen
     2.4450 KQ, KJ, 1+ St.Pen
     2.4120 **CP AK, AQ, AJ**
     2.4098 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 1 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.4092 JTs, 1,2 St.Pen only
     2.4027 AK, AQ, AJ
     2.3959 3 STFL, 1 Gap, 0 Hi, 1 St.Pen
     2.3808 QTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3793 JTs, 1 St.Pen & 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3648 Jack, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3647 Ace, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3538 JTs, Any 3 Pen
     2.3415 Ace, 1+ Fl.Pen
     2.3206 Queen, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3111 King, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.3098 Jack, 1+ Fl.Pen
     2.3074 QTs, 1 Fl.Pen
     2.3047 Queen, 1+ Fl.Pen
     2.3019 KTs, 0 Fl.Pen
     2.2938 King, 1+ Fl.Pen
     1.9843 3 STFL, 2 Gaps, 0 Hi Cards
     1.7915 Redraw

               PAYTABLE
    ------------------------------
    4000 Royal Flush
    4000 ACE$- or -ACE$
     250 Straight Flush
     400 Four Aces
     200 Four 2-4s
     150 Four 5-Ks
      40 Full House
      25 Flush
      20 Straight
      15 Three of Kind
      10 Two Pair
       5 Jacks or Better

The abbreviation "CP" of course stands for "Correctly Positioned",
and in the case of AH refers to both the Ace and the H (the H must

be

in positions 1 or 5, of course). I didn't add any other changes,
since they would change the EV but not the relative hand rankings.
For example, "Pair of CP Aces" would come just above the listing
for "Pair of Aces", so you'd hold the ace pair regardless of

whether

they're CP or not.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

P.S. If you'd like the complete MS Excel file, shoot me an email.

DogHand,

This is great! After I posted my "assumptions" regarding the
adjustment for CP Two-Pair, I realized that this ACE$ Bonus game pays
2-1 instead of 1-1 in the other Double Bonus, or Double-Double Poker
games. And, I probably even at a 1-1 payoff on Two-Pair, my
simplication is still wrong.

Thanks for confirming and spelling this out. I will incorporate the
two changes you mentioned to my basic 8-5 Bonus Poker strategy card.

Much Appreciated,
John Hunady

So your analysis really confirmed and spelled out the dangers

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "doghand21" <doghand21@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "johnhunady" <johnhunady@> wrote: