Withdrawn comps, WAS - NSUD at Wynn

[Barry_Glazer]

2f. Re: NSUD at Wynn
Date: Sat Jul 5, 2008 8:05 pm ((PDT))

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" wrote:

> More alarming was the news from a host that offers can be revoked
> based on CURRENT play. So, if I receive two free nights and $200 in
> food/bev in a mail offer and don't play up to Wynn criteria on THAT
> trip they can charge my credit card. To emphasize the point a host
> told me about a recent guest being downgraded from their offer and
> charged. The guest complained extesively at checkout but the charges
> were not reversed. Needless to say my comfort level about any
> potential stay at Wynn immediately dropped. I recall previous vpFREE
> posts about NYNY doing the same and haven't even considered staying
> there since.

That's very illegal and should be reported to the state bureau of
consumer protection and the BBB. I'll spare you the legal analysis,
but it's essentially a breach of contract issue.

Actually, it depends on the fine print - I've gotten many coupon offers where it has fine print stating that offers are based on play, are subject to withdrawal, etc. -- eseentially, giving the casino the right to decide if you get it or not. If the offer is a coupon and it does NOT have such print on it, then I think you may "have a case". I doubt if it's "illegal" in the sense that they've broken a statute and can be fined or go to jail, but I would agree that absent the fine print, it's a contract that's been breached -- all you need to do now is go to court and win a civil suit or if the amount's small enough, perhaps small claims court. Some credit card companies may also back you up if you dispute the charge and have the coupon with no strings attached to back up your "case".

If you have to file in NV, I expect the courts will favor the casino in all but the most blatant situations, but the credit card company might be easier and more sympathetic.

As usual, voting with your feet is the most effective in the long run, although the message the casino is sending is "we don't want you here anymore, enough that we won't give you anything free this trip nor guaranteed free for the future. If you don't play enough to cover our calculated costs for having you, go somewhere else and we don't care"

--BG

···

================

[caplatinum]

Venetian offers usually have small print that allow them to do this,
which is why many players refuse to take them up on offers. Wynn
offers have not had these that I have seen. Only the Venetian has a
corporate policy on this - other places it is up to the host. Some
hosts are real p****s about this.

Mandalay has done this to card counters before MGM took over. Other
places have done this to card counters to. None that I know have done
to it AP VP players. I know some card counters who have successfully
challenged this with the credit card companies if they have the
original offer in their hand. Usually at most places it says RFB on
the check-in thing you sign - ask for a copy.

> 2f. Re: NSUD at Wynn
> Date: Sat Jul 5, 2008 8:05 pm ((PDT))
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" wrote:
>
> > More alarming was the news from a host that offers can be

revoked

> > based on CURRENT play. So, if I receive two free nights and

$200 in

> > food/bev in a mail offer and don't play up to Wynn criteria on

THAT

> > trip they can charge my credit card. To emphasize the point a

host

> > told me about a recent guest being downgraded from their offer

and

> > charged. The guest complained extesively at checkout but the

charges

> > were not reversed. Needless to say my comfort level about any
> > potential stay at Wynn immediately dropped. I recall previous

vpFREE

> > posts about NYNY doing the same and haven't even considered

staying

> > there since.
>
> That's very illegal and should be reported to the state bureau of
> consumer protection and the BBB. I'll spare you the legal

analysis,

> but it's essentially a breach of contract issue.
>

Actually, it depends on the fine print - I've gotten many coupon

offers where it has fine print stating that offers are based on play,
are subject to withdrawal, etc. -- eseentially, giving the casino the
right to decide if you get it or not. If the offer is a coupon and
it does NOT have such print on it, then I think you may "have a
case". I doubt if it's "illegal" in the sense that they've broken a
statute and can be fined or go to jail, but I would agree that absent
the fine print, it's a contract that's been breached -- all you need
to do now is go to court and win a civil suit or if the amount's
small enough, perhaps small claims court. Some credit card companies
may also back you up if you dispute the charge and have the coupon
with no strings attached to back up your "case".

If you have to file in NV, I expect the courts will favor the

casino in all but the most blatant situations, but the credit card
company might be easier and more sympathetic.

As usual, voting with your feet is the most effective in the long

run, although the message the casino is sending is "we don't want you
here anymore, enough that we won't give you anything free this trip
nor guaranteed free for the future. If you don't play enough to
cover our calculated costs for having you, go somewhere else and we
don't care"

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, b.glazer@... wrote:

--BG

================

[pesach_kremen1]

The use of small print and other devious tactics by the casino is nothing new. You are right in voting with your feet and letting others (such as those int his group) know about it. It would be one thing to not give you future equivalent offers, as most reputable places will do if play isn't enough but to pull an offer that you both have accepted when you check in? This assumes that it isn't deliberate such as -0- play or something like that. Personally due the Venetians vicious anti-union tactics I have avoided them anyway, but this is another reason to stay away.

···

--- On Sun, 7/6/08, caplatinum <belairgold@aol.com> wrote:
From: caplatinum <belairgold@aol.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Withdrawn comps, WAS - NSUD at Wynn
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 8:03 AM

            Venetian offers usually have small print that allow them to do this,

which is why many players refuse to take them up on offers. Wynn

offers have not had these that I have seen. Only the Venetian has a

corporate policy on this - other places it is up to the host. Some

hosts are real p****s about this.

Mandalay has done this to card counters before MGM took over. Other

places have done this to card counters to. None that I know have done

to it AP VP players. I know some card counters who have successfully

challenged this with the credit card companies if they have the

original offer in their hand. Usually at most places it says RFB on

the check-in thing you sign - ask for a copy.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, b.glazer@... wrote:

> 2f. Re: NSUD at Wynn

> Date: Sat Jul 5, 2008 8:05 pm ((PDT))

>

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups. com, "mikeymic" wrote:

>

> > More alarming was the news from a host that offers can be

revoked

> > based on CURRENT play. So, if I receive two free nights and

$200 in

> > food/bev in a mail offer and don't play up to Wynn criteria on

THAT

> > trip they can charge my credit card. To emphasize the point a

host

> > told me about a recent guest being downgraded from their offer

and

> > charged. The guest complained extesively at checkout but the

charges

> > were not reversed. Needless to say my comfort level about any

> > potential stay at Wynn immediately dropped. I recall previous

vpFREE

> > posts about NYNY doing the same and haven't even considered

staying

> > there since.

>

> That's very illegal and should be reported to the state bureau of

> consumer protection and the BBB. I'll spare you the legal

analysis,

> but it's essentially a breach of contract issue.

>

Actually, it depends on the fine print - I've gotten many coupon

offers where it has fine print stating that offers are based on play,

are subject to withdrawal, etc. -- eseentially, giving the casino the

right to decide if you get it or not. If the offer is a coupon and

it does NOT have such print on it, then I think you may "have a

case". I doubt if it's "illegal" in the sense that they've broken a

statute and can be fined or go to jail, but I would agree that absent

the fine print, it's a contract that's been breached -- all you need

to do now is go to court and win a civil suit or if the amount's

small enough, perhaps small claims court. Some credit card companies

may also back you up if you dispute the charge and have the coupon

with no strings attached to back up your "case".

If you have to file in NV, I expect the courts will favor the

casino in all but the most blatant situations, but the credit card

company might be easier and more sympathetic.

As usual, voting with your feet is the most effective in the long

run, although the message the casino is sending is "we don't want you

here anymore, enough that we won't give you anything free this trip

nor guaranteed free for the future. If you don't play enough to

cover our calculated costs for having you, go somewhere else and we

don't care"

--BG

============ ====

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]