vpFREE2 Forums

WinPoker vs. Frugal Poker???

#1

We used to have a playable reversible RF game in the Chicago Area. I was
able to set it up on Frugal.
Jim Wolf has been adding other game types as requested for updates at his
www.frugalgambler.biz website.
There are a few games that Winpoker cannot handle at present such as super
bonus deuces and Multi-Pay Poker (At one time this Williams game was the
best game available in the Chicago Area.). These games are on Frugal.

Frugal has no limits as to how many user defined games you have which is
useful for practicing Multi-Strike.
On my PC (P4-2.66GHZ) Frugal is fractionally slower for simulations but
still extremely fast.

Graphics are a little cutesy and the Ten Play games fill in the draws from
the top rather than the bottom.
Frugal generates strategy charts which are somewhat less complete than VPSM
but of course the play portion of Frugal is 100% accurate just like
Winpoker.

ยทยทยท

[Original Message]
From: brumar_lv <brumar_lv@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 5/26/2004 3:36:34 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: WinPoker vs. Frugal Poker???

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@w...> wrote:
> I've made this recommendation before, buy them all! They aren't that
> expensive and will easily pay for themselves with what you learn
from
> them and apply in the casinos. Better to have a full arsenal than be
> "penny wise and dollar foolish".
>>>>>>
If you have to choose one or the other, perhaps this will help.

One of the ways I use WinPoker is to do "simulations". For example,
many times I've setup a game and run a million simulations to see the
overall outcome. WinPoker is incredibly fast. Since I don't own
FrugalVP (yet), someone else must comment as to its speed.

On the other hand, I've had difficulty at times setting up a custom
game using WinPoker. I think I set it up right ... but it really
isn't, and there is nothing to indicate otherwise. Maybe Frugal is
better to use in this way ... I don't know.

There are "special jackpots" that can't be setup using WinPoker ...
such as a Reversible RF, or Dealt RF, or Quad bonus, to see the
impact on the Return. I don't know if FrugalVP has this limitation.

Finally, as Bill said, I think the future of WinPoker is a question
mark. My impression is there won't be future upgrades ... but this
impression may be wrong.

If all you are planning to do is practice the strategy, it appears
FrugalVP is the better choice today, because of the "strategy print"
capability, which WinPoker lacks.

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#2

Howard Stern wrote:

snip

Frugal generates strategy charts which are somewhat less complete than VPSM
but of course the play portion of Frugal is 100% accurate just like
Winpoker.

snip

Frugal has more digits of precision, for those of you who care. And I discovered a glitch in WinPoker some time ago which I believe Harry Porter was then able to duplicate on his system to confirm that it is the software and not just my system. Here is a portion of a previous post to ACVPP describing it:

You probably have noticed that anytime you change a paytable in a game and then analyze it, if your computer had ever done the analysis for that particular paytable in the past, it just displays it. If it had not yet done an analysis, it states "Not Run". Because of that, whenever I would see an ER listed for a paytable, I would assume that I had run it in the past and that it is still accurate. BUT HERE IS THE ERROR: in "Define Custom Games", when I make a change in the paytable and then analyze game, then either the newly computed ER or else the phrase "Not Run" are displayed, as they should be ... EXCEPT WHEN I MAKE CHANGES TO THE QUAD SETTINGS.

To see if this happens on your system, go into your user-defined program for Marsha's paytable, click on the quad=7's line, and then add some additional checkmarks on the quad line. I checked off the Ace, King and Queen, in addition to the original '7', and I also changed the 'label' that will appear in the paytable. Hit 'OK' and then return to play-mode and check to see if your paytable has been altered; mine was, at least to know show that it is paying quad A,K,Q,7 like a Royal. Now go to 'Analyze Game'. My screen still shows the former ER, which clearly could not be correct. I think that seeing a figure here will lead people to think that this paytable had been analyzed once before and that this is the correct ER. However, if I go ahead and click on the "Run Analysis" button, the ER figure changes to the correct one; it adjusts from 98% up to 151%. I have never noticed this problem before, so either it's because I seldom play with 'user-defined' games, or else my system is starting to screw up. Will someone post whether their program behaves the same way.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

#3

Bill Velek wrote:

Will someone post whether their program behaves the same way.

As you note, Bill, I've confirmed what you've observed.

For the standard defined games in WinPoker, when you modify a paytable
it will check its database of previously analyzed games. If it has
already calculated the ER, it will display that value. If not, it
will display the text "Not Run".

This is also the case for user defined games, with one exception. If
you change a game definition to alter the quads to which a given
payline applies (for example, say you change the bonus pays to be
J/Q/K rather than 2/3/4), WinPoker provides no indication that there
has been a change in ER and the game needs to be analyzed. The
Analysis screen will continue to display the former ER. That ER will
be updated if you remember to recalcualate it.

As you experienced, when tweaking the quad definitions (but not the
payouts themselves), this can mislead you into thinking that the
currently displayed ER applies to your most recent changes.

But, any change to the basic paytable values (changing the FH payout
from 45 to 40, for example) is properly handled for the standard game
definitions as well as the user defined ones.

- Harry

#4

To see if this happens on your system, go into your user-defined program for Marsha's paytable, click on the quad=7's line, and then add some additional checkmarks on the quad line. I checked off the Ace, King and Queen, in addition to the original '7', and I also changed the 'label' that will appear in the paytable. Hit 'OK' and then return to play-mode and check to see if your paytable has been altered; mine was, at least to know show that it is paying quad A,K,Q,7 like a Royal. Now go to 'Analyze Game'. My screen still shows the former ER, which clearly could not be correct. I think that seeing a figure here will lead people to think that this paytable had been analyzed once before and that this is the correct ER. However, if I go ahead and click on the "Run Analysis" button, the ER figure changes to the correct one; it adjusts from 98% up to 151%. I have never noticed this problem before, so either it's because I seldom play with 'user-defined' games, or else my system is starting to screw up. Will someone post whether their program behaves the same way.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

I did not have "Marsha's paytable" but I took a 9/6 JOB user defined game named it test, added quad J-A for 400, unchecked J-A for regular quads, quads 2-T left for 125, and unchecked all kickers got a ER of 103.8499.
Changed the paytable for quad J-A to 200, unchecked all kickers, showed needed analysis, got ER of 100.7174.
Changed the paytable for quad J-A to 300, unchecked all kickers, showed needed analysis, got ER of 102.2830.
Changed the paytable for quad J-A to 400, unchecked all kickers, showed already analyzed with ER of 103.8499.
Changed the quads from J-A to J-K for 400, regular quads A-T at 125, showed already analyzed with ER of 103.8499 but the quad J-K data was labeled N/A. After analyzing it the ER was 102.7799. The quad J_K data was now filled in.

So mine behaves like yours. I guess you need to check the analysis table for any N/A data and then run the new analysis even though an ER is displayed.

Dennis
vp-connoisseur